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doulasc
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Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:40 am

Over the years there has been Nonstop Service from Honolulu to LAX,SFO,SEA,ORD,ATL,JFK,DFW,STL but how come
no airline ever tried Non Stop sevice from Miami to Honolulu? When Braniff started service to Hawaii their route map
showed a line from MIA-HNL but it connected at DAL. When Western served MIA-LAX they had a flight that continued to
HNL.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:47 am

Sun destination-sun destination routes don't usually work out. And yes I know MIA is very high yielding with a lot of business and connections to Latin America, but what I said still applies.

If you live in a nice sunny tropical climate, why would you fly a quarter of a world to go to another one, when you can be to almost anywhere in the Caribbean for much cheaper in less than two hours?
When wasn't America great?


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Flighty
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:48 am

3 main reasons. First almost nobody travels between those cities. Second it's extremely far at 5,000 mi and with nothing beyond Miami but the Atlantic toward Africa. Third, you can connect via IAH or DFW since the great circle of HNL-MIA goes right over South Texas. So the route gets a zero.
 
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Miami
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
no airline ever tried Non Stop sevice from Miami to Honolulu?

Eventually I'd think it would happen.

HNL and MIA are both hot destinations for year round sun and beautiful beaches. You're technically almost going to the same place. I'm assuming.

Reason why I'd think it can happen is because both airports can serve as great connecting ties. And who doesn't want to visit Honolulu and Miami??

In a few years, I won't be surprised if Hawaiian starts MIA.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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Miami
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
First almost nobody travels between those cities.

Are you kidding me? Like seriously?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
So the route gets a zero.

Your statement is invalid.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
jasoncrh
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:55 am

Are you suggesting that Hawaiian might want to start this service for the vast volumes of people going from the caribbean, who, on their way to say Tahiti, might want to stop off in both Miami and in Honolulu just for fun? What "connecting ties" are you talking about?

Sorry. Airlines start long haul routes like this to serve local demand primarily, complemented by the flow traffic. In this case, there would be very little flow traffic (and who would Hawaiian even work with any way to get the flow traffic) beyond Miami, and there isn't a large enough local market between Miami and Honolulu to make it viable. Plenty of great connecting options. Not gonna happen sorry.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
Reason why I'd think it can happen is because both airports can serve as great connecting ties. And who doesn't want to visit Honolulu and Miami??

In a few years, I won't be surprised if Hawaiian starts MIA.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:58 am

This is a nonstarter. Its not a big market to begin with and the fares are very low.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
In a few years, I won't be surprised if Hawaiian starts MIA.

There's no market, period. The few Miami-originating pax headed to HNL each day are well-served over DFW, IAH, LAX, or SFO.

I realize there's a legion of folks on A.net who think MIA-anywhere is a winning proposition, but amazingly, there are a handful of routes that even glorious Miami can't support. HNL is one of them.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:18 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
Are you kidding me? Like seriously?

Can you post any official numbers that show otherwise?

I too see little reason to believe that there's any significant traffic between these two cities. And that's a long flight, several hundred miles longer than many of MIA's European flights.

Families traveling on beach packages are NOT going to sustain such.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
Reason why I'd think it can happen is because both airports can serve as great connecting ties. And who doesn't want to visit Honolulu and Miami??

In a few years, I won't be surprised if Hawaiian starts MIA.

Connecting ties? Where are you going to connect to via HNL? And just how many people from MIA or even the Carribean WANT to connect to those remote dots in the Pacific? And how many people from HNL and even the vast Pacific Ocean area want to go to MIA and/or the Carribean? Next to zero!


As a result....



Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 5):
Not gonna happen sorry.

Is 100% accurate.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:25 am

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Over the years there has been Nonstop Service from Honolulu to LAX,SFO,SEA,ORD,ATL,JFK,DFW,STL but how come
no airline ever tried Non Stop sevice from Miami to Honolulu? When Braniff started service to Hawaii their route map
showed a line from MIA-HNL but it connected at DAL. When Western served MIA-LAX they had a flight that continued to
HNL.

All those cities you cite have large populations of people who visit the Hawaiian islands and/or serve as major hubs for airlines that can funnel traffic from other points, including MIA to Hawaii. As for Hawaiian Airlines, which exists as a boutique destination carrier for the purpose of bringing people to, from and within Hawaii, would likely never fly the route due to the lack of people that solely travel between MIA and Hawaii. For those that do, there are numerous one stop options.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 1):
If you live in a nice sunny tropical climate, why would you fly a quarter of a world to go to another one, when you can be to almost anywhere in the Caribbean for much cheaper in less than two hours?

I live in Hawaii and have traveled to many other sun destinations around the world, but your point is somewhat valid. People not only travel to Hawaii for the sun and climate, but the culture. Also, I've been to Miami in the winter, its still cold compared to Hawaii.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
HNL and MIA are both hot destinations for year round sun and beautiful beaches. You're technically almost going to the same place. I'm assuming.

Hardly the same place. And yes, I've been to Miami.
 
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Miami
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:30 am

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 11):
Hardly the same place

It all depends on which terms you'd like to compare them with? People? Lifestyle? Weather?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:45 am

What airline has the planes to dump on a route like MIA-HNL when they could dedicate them to routes that actually make money and have a good market?
I was told there would be cookies...
 
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RWA380
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:10 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
In a few years, I won't be surprised if Hawaiian starts MIA.

Dude, I know you love Miami and are one of the best cheerleaders for this fine facility. But even you have to see how far fetched an assertion like this is. HA doesn't fly to DEN, SLC or ORD, all of which all have larger O/D markets than MIA & are much closer to HNL.

Quoting Miami (Reply 13):
It all depends on which terms you'd like to compare them with? People? Lifestyle? Weather?

By any of those measures the two places are vastly different, with the exception of a vibrant nightlife in both Miami & Honolulu.

The local people that live in both places are vastly different, There is little in common with your local boyz & 2 retirees from Buffalo or immigrants from the Caribbean or the lower Americas.

the lifestyles are also different enough to alleviate many similarities. The faster paced lifestyle of Miami is more mainland than Island, and Miami has more people than the state of Hawaii.

The weather is far more palatable in Hawaii with their almost constant trade winds, than the stifling humidity in South Florida during the hot half the year, I'll give you Naples & Honolulu have similar temps during the winter months, having spent a winter in both places.

During the years that I resided in Honolulu, I won a cruise for two on NCL out of Miami. So we flew DL to Miami a few days pre-cruise at the Fontainebleau, we got to catch up with friends in the area, they invited us to a great party at a place called the acropolis, and no matter how many people I met, they all asked me why I came to South Florida from Hawaii.

Well on the boat for a week, we were seated with a couple from Omaha, and they too were wondering why someone who lived in Hawaii was taking a Caribbean cruise. I guess my point is, while I thought it was quite normal to travel from one beach destination to another because I needed to, most peoples first impression was that it was a wasted trip & Hawaii wasn't a destination that was on the top of anyone's list.
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BigGSFO
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:26 am

The problem isn't the communities on either side of the route, it's the stage length vs. the potential yield. Filling the plane probably wouldn't be the problem. It's making money on the route. Hawaii is notoriously lower yielding; Miami can be depending on the market. I don't see it happening anytime soon even if there is incremental passenger demand. Right now, the two cities are well served via the hubs and connecting points and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
catiii
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:36 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 12):

There's a simple way to back up your argument: just get the PDEW for MIA-HNL. You'll then be able to substantiate why MIA-HNL is such a viable market.

I'm going to venture it's less than 100 though...
 
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drerx7
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:52 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
And who doesn't want to visit Honolulu and Miami??

Lol, I'm in the minority, but I actually don't like going to Miami, meh
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
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rotating14
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:01 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
Eventually I'd think it would happen.

Heeeeeeeere we go. Nobody is going to travel to Hawaii from Miami Florida just to connect. People are travelling to HNL to vacation (no cargo/trade value because the cost would be astronomical vs container ship). Why would ANYONE travel 4800 miles to HNL for the same product they have in MIA?? Oh, sorry, minus the lonely palm tree with the names of Enrique Iglesias and Anna Kornakova carved into it S. Beach. Do you think people from Japan are going to vacation in Miami when HNL, HKT, SAN, LAX, OGG, KOA, SFO are much closer??

Lets think. Who's going to Miami and HNL? Vacationers looking to see Volcanoes, the Hawaiian culture, waterfalls and the scenery, 3/4 of the Alaskan population in the Winter months (Oct-March), half of Alaska in the summer(June-Aug) and people scattered throughout the contiguous 48 states. MIA? Snowbirds, Spring Breakers, and vacationers on the East Coast and Midwest looking to take advantage of the climate, the melting pot of cultures and . People in Az, Nm, Ut, Idaho, Co, Ok, and surrounding states can probably get to either MIA or HNL with 1 more connection. Research the airlines have have planes on these routes. None. It just doesn't make sense. Weather?? Hot is hot. All Palm tress are the same, they provide shade and scenery. Yes you can get the culture of the Latin community in MIA but what else? $22 shots of patron, $100 cover charge to a club and no parking? No thanks. And I lived in Miami for 30 years. It's a bachelors paradise, but that's for another day.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
I'm assuming.

Your assumption is off.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
Reason why I'd think it can happen is because both airports can serve as great connecting ties. And who doesn't want to visit Honolulu and Miami??

Everyone wants a Ferrari but nobody wants the payments. Yes Hawaii and Miami attract millions of travelers each year. Everyone knows that. But who's gonna go through the trouble to connect (waste time) and pay more money (less money

Conclusion. It will not happen. I'll say it again. Nobody is connecting from the Far East to get to MIA To then continue on. Remember HNL and MIA is 4800 nm.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
In a few years, I won't be surprised if Hawaiian starts MIA

I wonder (not really) why they didn't pick MIA because of all the beaches, Latin culture, Cuban coffee and infrequent hurricane activity?? (sigh ..)
 
CV880
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 20):
I'm going to venture it's less than 100 though...
MCO-HNL is 78pdew according to local Orlando Airport Stats and I doubt if MIA is as much. Even at that rate, the airlines are better off connecting Hawaii-Florida pax over DFW or ATL.

Quoting catiii (Reply 20):
There's a simple way to back up your argument: just get the PDEW for MIA-HNL. You'll then be able to substantiate why MIA-HNL is such a viable market.

I'm going to venture it's less than 100 though...


http://www.orlandoairports.net/statistics/markets/topdomkt.pdf


[Edited 2015-02-03 21:09:40]
 
N1120A
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:31 am

Here are the reasons:

Very little local tourist market.

Very little local business market.

Very few connection options that aren't covered by other airports.

Long distance, necessitating the sacrifice of at least one widebody a day.

Basically, MIA-HNL would probably be more efficient than lighting a match in Scrooge McDuck's money bin at burning money for an airline.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
HNL and MIA are both hot destinations for year round sun and beautiful beaches. You're technically almost going to the same place. I'm assuming.

They aren't the same place, but they market to a similar demographic from a tourist perspective.

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
Reason why I'd think it can happen is because both airports can serve as great connecting ties. And who doesn't want to visit Honolulu and Miami??

Connecting "ties" for what? Where can someone who lives in Honolulu, or the entire state of Hawai'i, or is going there, go through MIA that it wouldn't make more sense for them to go from LAX, IAH, IAD, DFW, ORD, EWR, JFK, SFO, DEN, PHX, SEA, YVR or any of the other places that already have flights there? Some random spot in the Caribbean or South America that has a fraction of a person PDEW? Vacation in a place with beaches and a better climate than Miami? Do you realize that, in many ways, Spain is actually a better option for people from Miami looking for that? Its definitely cheaper than Hawai'i, and probably offers more close cultural connections with many of those who live in Miami. Business connections? Hardly, and nothing a connection can't handle.

Also, why on earth would an airline waste a 767 or larger plane on that route? You need at least a 763ER to make it work, and how are you going to fill 200-220 seats, let alone fill to yield, in THAT market? It just is never going to happen. Nothing short of a full on ice age is going to make that happen.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 9):
And that's a long flight, several hundred miles longer than many of MIA's European flights.

Yeah, I think that people sometimes thing that a domestic flight means 5 hours or less, without considering just how far Hawaii is from some parts of the US.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 19):
MCO-HNL is 78pdew according to local Orlando Airport Stats and I doubt if MIA is as much. Even at that rate, the airlines are better off connecting Hawaii-Florida pax over DFW or ATL.

Yeah, I'd imagine it is tiny. You can connect Hawaii-South Florida over so many better places - forget just DFW or ATL. LAX, IAH, DFW, ATL, SFO, JFK, EWR, IAD, ORD all have more than enough connecting options.
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hiflyer
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:03 am

United did...but as etops proving runs for the intro of the 777 back in the 90's...no paying pax. grin.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:09 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
Are you kidding me? Like seriously
Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
Your statement is invalid.

Pls furnish the numbers that prove you point
 
jfk777
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Over the years there has been Nonstop Service from Honolulu to LAX,SFO,SEA,ORD,ATL,JFK,DFW,STL but how come

Hawaii is viable from two types of cities, west coast metro areas and hubs. The only city not a hub listed above and not on the west coast is JFK. Also very few people are paying j class fares to Hawaii, its a very elastic market. Flights from hubs to a burning miles and a necessary evil of current FF programs.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:21 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):
Eventually I'd think it would happen.

Yes, the same day as NRT, FUK and KIX combined. To refer to a specific recent thread about MIA-Asia services...
When I doubt... go running!
 
strfyr51
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:01 pm

MIA- HNL, You're talking about the SAME city with a different FALVOR, HNL, Asian - Polynesian. Miami Hispanic, Afro-Cuban
"Spicy" wonderful beaches Lots to do in Both Cities. All depends on the Flavor you savor
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:17 am

MIA-HNL? Puuleeeze! MIA-OME is more likely than that.  

Why go to Hawaii when the Caribbean is closer and far less expensive to go to? I've been to Hawaii and thought it was great, but it's definitely overpriced and even a little overrated. I have friends who've been to Hawaii as well and they agree with me.

I'd love to see Hawaiian's beautiful A330s at MIA, though.

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Why Never Nonstop MIA-HNL

Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):

I

I live in South Florida and if I wanted to go to the Hawaiian Islands I could use AA and easily connect to HNL and OGG thru DFW or
HNL, OGG, LIH and KOA via LAX. In fact if a nonstop flight was offered from MIA to HNL the flight route would most likely go over
both DFW and LAX. Why would AA run a nonstop from MIA to HNL when they can (and do) easily route passengers thru
DFW and LAX?

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