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AIRWALK
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 124):
Single engine, with a feathered prop, you should be able to climb.

Agreed, I think it is approx 400fpm on SE with both uptrim and feathered prop at standard ISA. Without a feathered prop however I think the drag penalties are severe enough for the aircraft to struggle to climb.
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
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Vio
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:34 pm

Does anyone have a link to the live ATC where the Mayday call was made?

Thanks
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
LTC8K6
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:43 pm

Quoting vio (Reply 151):
Does anyone have a link to the live ATC where the Mayday call was made?

Post #83
 
Airspeed772
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 129):

Call Richard Quest he should know by now what cause this accident.

[Edited 2015-02-04 08:53:00]
Airspeed772
 
migair54
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:45 pm

An ATR should climb okay on one engine, the ATPCS system when having a flame out on take off should feather the dead engine and apply 100% power on the live engine and cut the engine bleeding. Normal take of power at sea level is 90%, 100% is for go around and engine out and emergency power can give up to 115%.

Last reports I read is that they reached 1050 feet, so the plane was climbing, I'm afraid we are again seeing a pilot error.

I'll share the engine out after V1 scenario on ATR.

-GEAR UP to reduce drag, very important.
-Check engine flame out, check up trim green light on live engine and Np for Autofeather.
-400 feet AGL, level off and get speed to clean up the flaps. Set Maximum continuos speed.
-continue climbing in clean speed and proceed with the memory items and the checklist.

So if the reached 1050 feet all was okay, maybe while doing some check or some talking they lose control of the plane and stall. The CVR will point out.

Quoting Redd (Reply 130):
I would be curious to hear from someone with experience on the ATR, I have only driven Cessna's and in those during a stall the ailerons are to be kept level as they can induce a snap roll if used to correct. Using the rudder to keep the plane level in a stall is the correct procedure. I wonder if it's the same on ATR's.

Same.

Latest update 23 dead and 18 missing (they think trapped inside the plane)

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 120):
Take off engine cuts are still probably the most widely practiced failure scenarios in the sim.

by far yes,

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 84):
According to the souls on board and fuel load , it might have been fairly heavy as well.
So you are low, slow, perhaps heavy, and now the left engine loses pwr...

53 pax and not a very long flight, I don't think it was very heavy, maybe around 20500-21000 kgs, the max is 22 800 kgs on take off.
 
bueb0g
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:49 pm

Quoting na (Reply 118):
news lady speaks of a "jet having crashed".

A turboprop is a jet.

Quoting Airspeed772 (Reply 119):
The pilots had lost control of of the aircraft before it started banking.

I'm not so sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYczDsj0ATI#t=19

Aircraft looks like it's flying - almost stalled, but still controllable. It then stalls just before it reaches the bridge and the left wing drops.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 125):
I think this plane was stalled during the whole video.

It does stall, but it's flying when the video starts. It also looks like both engines are stopped but it's hard to tell in the video.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
D L X
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 148):
Does water explode where you live?

 

Tone, sir. Try it.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 148):
It landed in a river, there's not going to be an explosion, especially if the wing lands first and makes the entry smoother than it would otherwise be.

In the video and the photos, it is clear that the plane hit the roadway, wing first.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 116):
Impressive sight.

It is. I'm surprised to see that much of the plane intact.
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:51 pm

Looks like someone needs some recurrent VMC training. There's no excuse to crash an airplane that spectacularly with "just" #1 feathered. Something else has to have happened, otherwise these guys shouldn't have been anywhere near anything with more than one spinny part, let alone an ATR.

Asia's really chalking up the death toll lately. What's going on over there?
 
Indy
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:57 pm

I don't know if it has been mentioned or not, but I suspect the pilot deliberately banked like at the end in order to crash into the water. Not that he/she was trying to do a belly landing, but rather to have a water impact instead of ground impact. If you miss the water everyone likely dies. So while the video may look extreme, it was likely a life saving maneuver.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
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Navigator
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 146):
Quoting bueb0g (Reply 155):
Aircraft looks like it's flying - almost stalled, but still controllable. It then stalls just before it reaches the bridge and the left wing drops.

No no its stalled all the time. Its just that it finally turns over into a spin or something. The attitude is simply not normal for an ATR-72
747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
 
Kaiarahi
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 136):
This plane stalled at some Point Before this video started.
Quoting Navigator (Reply 136):
There is no way the pilots steered this plane to avoid anything at all. They had their hands full trying to avoid a complete disaster after an Engine failed. And with the right training, given that this was their main problem, they should have been able to fly back and land on one engnine.
Quoting Navigator (Reply 136):
I think this airline may have a serious problem in their flight training department...

So I guess we don't need an investigation, since we already know what happened and why.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 147):
I forgot to say that the attitude of the plane also indicates it was in a deep stall.

Do you know what a deep stall is?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
bueb0g
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 159):
No no its stalled all the time. Its just that it finally turns over into a spin or something. The attitude is simply not normal for an ATR-72

Nobody said it was normal. It's obviously in a very low-energy state. But it is flying.
Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
 
bennett123
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:02 pm

Looking at reply 116, there is no sign of the rudder.

Also could not see that it was torn off.
 
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pvjin
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 158):

To me it looks like the left wing simply stalled and caused the aircraft to roll. I don't think banking aircraft deliberately would have done any difference whatsoever anyway, even if the wings had stayed level they would have hit the river.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
JBirdAV8r
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 156):

In order for jet fuel to light off rapidly (not really an "explosion" per se, but very rapid burning) you need two things: the fuel to be kicked up into a mist, and an ignition source. When the wing hit the bridge, it may have done so outboard of the fuel tank area, which wouldn't have allowed the fuel to most and catch fire. I can't watch it right now to be sure...I'll check later. Once the airplane impacted the water, the wing may have stayed intact enough to protect the fuel; additionally, any flash fire of the fuel could have been obscured and somewhat mitigated by the massive spray of water when the aircraft hit the river.

There are one or two videos of airplane crashes where there was no flash fire on at least the initial ground impact. It's an interesting observation, but I somehow doubt that fuel starvation was the culprit here.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 160):

Yeah I don't think the video indicates anything but a feathered #1 prop. We can certainly infer things, and it seems that if indeed it was *just* an engine failure, careening into a bridge is unacceptable. But you can't tell enough about their angle of attack to say they were in a stall/spin at that point.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting Okie (Reply 126):
We will probably never know exactly what the pilots were thinking.

Not to sound naive, but is it confirmed that they perished?

Quoting Navigator (Reply 76):
Lets wait for further information

That didn't last long.  
Quoting rcair1 (Reply 141):
Drawing conclusions based on this video and media reports is not supportable.

I know what it looks like to me (as just a casual observer) but I don't see how we can be discussing certain deep stalls and pilot training and so forth based on dashcam videos.

-Dave
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trnswrld
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:26 pm

Incredible video and very sorry to the people on that aircraft and families involved. That high resolution video is pretty startling. Very scary to watch and reminds me of how I felt watching the cargo 747-400 video. This is an incredibly horrible time for Asian aviation. Seems they are losing airplanes left and right.

What im not understanding is how some people claiming that the engines are "stopped". I mean, clearly in the videos the engines are spinning. Whether or not they are producing power or are feathered I dont think can be determined in the videos we have seen. What am I missing here, how are people claiming the engines to be stopped? or how can you even tell if a prop is feathered based on those videos, no way can anyone see that?!?

[Edited 2015-02-04 09:29:08]

[Edited 2015-02-04 09:30:53]

[Edited 2015-02-04 09:31:33]
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 166):

I think discussing pilot training is fair because there has been a rash of Asian crews/carriers crashing because of pilot error. It's a fair point to question what's going on.

Obviously we don't know what caused the failed engine, if there was extenuating or exasserbating circumstances, like maybe they took a flock of birds or maybe #2 wasn't making enough power either... who knows. However, I think the video is enough evidence to feel the need to raise questions.

As for the video itself, that's about the most incredible thing I've ever seen. You couldn't whack a bridge more "perfectly" if you tried. A lot of people were saved by the energy being dissipated in ripping that wing off, and the fact that 10 feet lower would have put them on the roadway in a fireball.
 
jetmatt777
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting na (Reply 118):

I have BBC running in my office and I hear/see the terrible news for the third time in an hour, and for the third time the news lady speaks of a "jet having crashed". Cant even the most serious stations employ experts? Obviously neither the news reader, nor the director, nor anyone else sitting there knows what a jet is.

Technically they are correct. It was a jet that crashed.

Instead of the jet engine turbine blades connected to a turbofan, the jet engine turbine blades are connected to a turboshaft gear reduction system which spins a propeller at the front.
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:48 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 167):

I see it quite plainly that #1 is stopped and feathered. The pitch is totally different from the spinning #2.
 
richierich
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 138):
I respectfully disagree, watching one if the Dash can videos from a vehicle further back it looks like the nose is pitched up just before the wing drops. Just after clearing the buildings before the bridge the nose raises. Almost seems like who ever was flying was trying to clear the bridge. In doing so the speed dropped and left wing stalled, hence the roll to them left. I think the aircraft was is control to that point, somewhat. It's a fine line to be on speed during an engine failure when your hot and heavy.

Fair assessment. Admittedly, it is difficult to tell what is going on in that second or two, but I think we all agree that as the aircraft approaches the bridge there appears to be a stall and at that point control is obviously lost.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 159):
No no its stalled all the time. Its just that it finally turns over into a spin or something. The attitude is simply not normal for an ATR-72

The attitude does seem very nose high but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean "stall". Still, as I just wrote, it is for only a second or two before the port wing definitely stalls. If the engine flamed out, I would have thought lowering the nose and gaining speed would have been a top priority.
None shall pass!!!!
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 171):

My initial thought was also that the airplane was controllable and the crew turned to avoid part of the bridge.
 
Kaiarahi
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 168):
there has been a rash of Asian crews/carriers crashing because of pilot error.

Such as?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
aviationaware
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:01 pm

Frankly, the Taiwanese authorities should shut this menace of an airline down. Now they even want to start long haul flying when they can't even operate props properly.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 167):
What am I missing here, how are people claiming the engines to be stopped? or how can you even tell if a prop is feathered based on those videos, no way can anyone see that?!?

Looking at the stills, it seemed like there was more motion noticable in the blades on the #2 engine than the #1 engine, which to me indicated that the #2 engine was producing thrust while the #1 engine was - perhaps - simply "spinning in the wind".

Quoting N766UA (Reply 168):
I think discussing pilot training is fair because there has been a rash of Asian crews/carriers crashing because of pilot error. It's a fair point to question what's going on.

Fair to? Certainly not the crew of this aircraft, and certainly not to the Asian crews/carriers as a whole. I mean, "Asia" is a huge area. Are you referring to specific nationalities, races, religious groups, or just "over there"?

Quoting N766UA (Reply 168):
However, I think the video is enough evidence to feel the need to raise questions.

Of course. Draw conclusions about the crew? Not so much.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 168):
As for the video itself, that's about the most incredible thing I've ever seen. You couldn't whack a bridge more "perfectly" if you tried. A lot of people were saved by the energy being dissipated in ripping that wing off, and the fact that 10 feet lower would have put them on the roadway in a fireball.

Absolutely.

Quoting richierich (Reply 171):
If the engine flamed out, I would have thought lowering the nose and gaining speed would have been a top priority.

Weren't they over the city? Not much room to lower the nose.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 173):

Such as...

Asiana in SFO
Air India in Mangalore
AirBlue in Pakistan
Garuda in Indonesia
Adam Air in Indonesia
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 175):

Training on multi-engine aircraft dictates that lowering the nose be the first response to an engine failure. It doesn't matter if you're over a city or a volcano. Think back to your checkride, the examiner would have failed you if that wasn't your immediate response when he pulled the throttle.

Of course we just saw their last 5 seconds of flight, so it's impossible to say what their initial response was or what followed.
 
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pvjin
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 174):
Frankly, the Taiwanese authorities should shut this menace of an airline down. Now they even want to start long haul flying when they can't even operate props properly.

Indeed, 4 ATR crashes in 20 years (and at least three of them caused by pilot error) is just pathetic record for such a small airline.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
PlanesNTrains
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 176):
Such as...

Asiana in SFO
Air India in Mangalore
AirBlue in Pakistan
Garuda in Indonesia
Adam Air in Indonesia

14 August 2013; UPS A300F4-622R; N155UP; flight 1354; Birmingham, AL

29 April 2013; National Airlines 747-400; N949CA; Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan

9 August 2010; de Havilland DHC-3T Otter; near Dillingham, AK

22 December 2009; American Airlines 737-800 (N977AN); Flight 331; Kingston, Jamaica

23 March 2009; FedEx Express (FedEx) MD-11F; near Tokyo, Japan

12 February 2009; Continental Connection (Colgan Air) Dash 8 Q-400; near Buffalo, NY

27 August 2006; Delta Connection (Comair) CRJ-100; Lexington, KY

8 December 2005; Southwest Airlines 737-700; Chicago, IL

19 October 2004; AmericanConnection (Corporate Airlines) BAe Jetstream 32; near Kirksville, MO

12 November 2001; American Airlines A300; Queens, New York


These are just some US carrier accidents I found online. Maybe not all crew/pilot error, but they seem to have that element to most if not all of them.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:17 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 177):
Training on multi-engine aircraft dictates that lowering the nose be the first response to an engine failure. It doesn't matter if you're over a city or a volcano.

1. I'm not a pilot.

2. Are you suggesting that they should fly into a building rather than sacrifice the aircraft and avoid a higher casualty count?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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9lflyguy
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:18 pm

Truely incredible video. Terrifying and I could not imagine being on that aircraft. Hard to believe that anyone survived that. I watched a lot of the recovery livestream and was shocked to see that much of the plane intact. I'm not going to speculate on the accident but i will commend the cockpit crew. As said in a few posts above, you couldn't land an ATR in those conditions in any better way. Now leading up to the crash is still in question on their airmanship but if they had hit those buildings or been lower and hit that bridge, I'd be highly doubtful there would be any survivors. Looking at the pictures from the other side of the river, you can clearly see the high tension power lines. Colliding with those would have been catastrophic.
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N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 179):

Forgive me, but what is your point? Are you seriously *arguing* about this? Like somehow American screw-ups cancel out or excuse those in other parts of the world?! This is safety we're talking about, this is people's lives... it's not top trumps of who crashes more airplanes in a random, unrelated period of time. Seriously what are you arguing about?
 
32andBelow
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:21 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 179):
14 August 2013; UPS A300F4-622R; N155UP; flight 1354; Birmingham, AL

29 April 2013; National Airlines 747-400; N949CA; Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan

9 August 2010; de Havilland DHC-3T Otter; near Dillingham, AK

22 December 2009; American Airlines 737-800 (N977AN); Flight 331; Kingston, Jamaica

23 March 2009; FedEx Express (FedEx) MD-11F; near Tokyo, Japan

12 February 2009; Continental Connection (Colgan Air) Dash 8 Q-400; near Buffalo, NY

27 August 2006; Delta Connection (Comair) CRJ-100; Lexington, KY

8 December 2005; Southwest Airlines 737-700; Chicago, IL

19 October 2004; AmericanConnection (Corporate Airlines) BAe Jetstream 32; near Kirksville, MO

12 November 2001; American Airlines A300; Queens, New York


These are just some US carrier accidents I found online. Maybe not all crew/pilot error, but they seem to have that element to most if not all of them.

-Dave

You are mixing different parts of aviation that have different standards and requirements.
 
N766UA
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 180):
I'm not a pilot

Well there ya go.
 
F9Animal
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:31 pm

Something to consider... The pilot said he had a flameout. Perhaps they lost both engines, and we're trying to restart one? Something else to consider. Perhaps they were too fixated on avoiding the buildings, and kind of missed flying the plane on one engine if it was just one engine out?

On some of the still photos, the left horizontal stabilizer looks damaged. Hard to tell.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
LTC8K6
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:33 pm

Some parts left on the bridge?

http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/...4-8ec1-9d585b7a1102_h_51781704.jpg

Wreckage of a TransAsia Airways passenger plane lie on a highway bridge in Taipei, Taiwan, February 4, 2015.
 
757gb
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:35 pm

Quoting 9lflyguy (Reply 181):
I'm not going to speculate on the accident but i will commend the cockpit crew.

I would agree with you if we knew that was the intention. In the same way that we cannot come out and say "pilot error" without having more information, we really don't know one way or the other. For all we know the airplane was out of control and the way it hit was not by design, though fortunate for some as it allowed for more survivors than in the other scenarios you described. I'd like to think that they had a hand in avoiding the buildings, but we just don't know.

Other than that, I agree with the rest. It is indeed incredible and terrifying. When we hear that an airplane crashed we are usually spared all of the graphic details.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
PlanesNTrains
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting 9lflyguy (Reply 181):
As said in a few posts above, you couldn't land an ATR in those conditions in any better way

I'm not so sure. Given a slightly higher altitude, this might have been a spiral into the ground. Their lack of altitude might have been a curse to a stall recovery but a blessing to the outcome.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 182):
Seriously what are you arguing about?

First, we don't even know what happened here and you are bringing up "Asian" safety issues. If you could perhaps narrow down your broad brush and identify specific carriers or nations where you believe the culture of safety and training is lacking, it'd be easier to get onboard with your comments.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 184):
Well there ya go.

I didn't realize that being a pilot entitled you to insult an entire geographic region of the world. By all means, continue with your assessment of "Asian safety issues".

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:39 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 183):
You are mixing different parts of aviation that have different standards and requirements.

It was not meant to be any kind of analysis. I was just listing US carrier accidents that appeared to have human error involved at some level. I thought that was his point too? Anyhow, I knew making such a list was probably asking for trouble, and I certainly am not trying to personally draw any connections or conclusions from it specifically.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LTC8K6
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Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:41 pm

 
N766UA
Posts: 8377
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 188):

Being a pilot entitles you to talk about what pilots do in emergencies and how aircraft behave!

Thanks for reminding me why actual industry experts avoid this forum like the plague. Nothing but ultra-PC pencil pushers. "Insult an entire region!" LOL jesus christ.
 
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Navigator
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2001 2:31 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 160):
Do you know what a deep stall is?

Yes, do you?

T-tail in "shadow" of wing. The deep stall affects aircraft with a T-tail configuration.
747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
 
675kts
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:00 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 157):

What a totally ignorant and flippant statement. Do you know or even care just how big and how many countries are actually in Asia and also how many safe flight pass through all countries in Asia without incident. I find your comments both small minded and insulting.

[Edited 2015-02-04 11:01:41]
 
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Navigator
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2001 2:31 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:56 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 160):
Quoting Navigator (Reply 136):I think this airline may have a serious problem in their flight training department... So I guess we don't need an investigation, since we already know what happened and why.



If you had any knowledge of previous incidents with this airline like I do you would find the comment highly relevant. I suggest you study previous problems with this particular airline.
747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
 
wanderlustlax
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 4:01 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 191):
Thanks for reminding me why actual industry experts avoid this forum like the plague.

But, yet, here you are...

Based on your statement, is it safe for us to assume that you're not an expert then?
 
IADCA
Posts: 2258
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 192):
Yes, do you?

T-tail in "shadow" of wing. The deep stall affects aircraft with a T-tail configuration.

Not a pilot here, but in a high-wing aircraft like the ATR, wouldn't you need an incredibly severe nose-up attitude to create such a condition? Also, if the plane is in a deep stall, wouldn't the wings need to be level? Otherwise you couldn't stall both wings and still get the control surfaces in the shadow, right? And wouldn't asymmetric thrust with wing-mounted engines produce enough of a natural yaw to get you out of the condition rather quickly?
 
Airspeed772
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:54 pm

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 93):

If the Pilots did survive this crash, its correct to say they will need a ton of lawyers before needing a doctor.

[Edited 2015-02-04 11:04:13]
Airspeed772
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:02 pm

Quick ...gotta take a screen print before it all gets deleted  


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
675kts
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:00 am

Transasia ATR-72 Crashes In Taipei - Part 1

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:06 pm

[quote=N766UA,reply=196][/quote
Like I say, small minded and ignorant. Jog on

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