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johnberg
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Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:56 pm

Will this finally put an end to the AA will shrink/de-hub ORD conspiracies? It's a pay to read but the biggest piece is as follows.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...lines-0205-biz-20150204-story.html


Even though it's based in Texas, American has eyes on the title of "Chicago's hometown airline," said Fernand Fernandez, American's vice president of global marketing.

"For us, it's really about putting a stake in the ground and saying, 'We're going to be No. 1 in Chicago," Fernandez said in an interview. "This is a big deal, a big relationship we have in Chicago."
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:09 pm

For those that don't want to subscribe to the Chicago Tribune, here's an alternate link.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/a...d_as_chicago_cubs_official_carrier
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a380787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting johnberg (Thread starter):
'We're going to be No. 1 in Chicago," Fernandez said in an interview.

So a partnership with a sports team is "becoming #1" ? They need to grow seats by ~15%, departures by ~20%, and ASM by even more, just to reach the size of UA at ORD.
 
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United787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting johnberg (Thread starter):
Will this finally put an end to the AA will shrink/de-hub ORD conspiracies? It's a pay to read but the biggest piece is as follows.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...lines-0205-biz-20150204-story.html


Even though it's based in Texas, American has eyes on the title of "Chicago's hometown airline," said Fernand Fernandez, American's vice president of global marketing.

"For us, it's really about putting a stake in the ground and saying, 'We're going to be No. 1 in Chicago," Fernandez said in an interview. "This is a big deal, a big relationship we have in Chicago."

IMHO, sponsorship, marketing, branding will mean nothing until they start expanding at ORD. Doug Parker said that once he took over at AA that they would reexamine their focus at ORD. I don't believe we have seen much happening, in fact, I think we have seen the opposite. I don't have the data at my finger tips but I think they have shrunk. How many trans-atlantic destinations were served by AA from ORD this winter? Compare the amount of destinations offered by UA out of ORD to AA and it is easy to see why UA is still "Chicago's Hometown Airline". Yes, I love UA, but I would also love to see AA make more of an effort at ORD.
 
etops1
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:29 pm

This is just the beginning guys . Things don't happen overnight .
 
commavia
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 2):
So a partnership with a sports team is "becoming #1" ? They need to grow seats by ~15%, departures by ~20%, and ASM by even more, just to reach the size of UA at ORD.

It's marketing/P.R. spin - obviously. Of course AA isn't "#1" in Chicago - not even close, never has been and never will be (at least not as long as United exists). Nonetheless, AA is a strong #2 in the market, and that's good enough in a market as large and rich as CHI.

Quoting United787 (Reply 3):
IMHO, sponsorship, marketing, branding will mean nothing until they start expanding at ORD. Doug Parker said that once he took over at AA that they would reexamine their focus at ORD. I don't believe we have seen much happening, in fact, I think we have seen the opposite. I don't have the data at my finger tips but I think they have shrunk.

Meh. There has been positive movement. AA has clearly shrunk its ORD-Europe presence in the last decade - no question about it. But in other ways, I continue to believe that things appear to be looking up for AA at ORD. Mainline is returning to markets that previously had little if any of it. EMB175s are replacing ERJ145s at an extremely rapid clip in existing and new markets. Frequencies are being added in several west coast markets - returning, in some cases, to levels not seen in almost a decade. And on and on.
 
UA444
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:33 pm

UA needs to get more narrowbodies on property and beef up ORD. AA has a management that has vision and is making huge strides to bring mainline back to markets that had it before. Time for UA to compete.
 
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United787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 4):
This is just the beginning guys . Things don't happen overnight .

But this is nothing new. AA has always had a large marketing effort in Chicago. They sponsor the Air & Water Show and do fly by, UA doesn't. I see AA everywhere and I have been surprised to see them as sponsor to certain things that I would have expected UA to be. But that doesn't change the fact that there offerings at ORD haven't reflected that...I hope it changes.

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
EMB175s are replacing ERJ145s at an extremely rapid clip in existing and new markets.

UA inherited a crapload of crappy ERJs from pmCO that found their way into the ORD market, fortunately UA is also replacing those with EMBs.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 6):
UA needs to get more narrowbodies on property and beef up ORD. AA has a management that has vision and is making huge strides to bring mainline back to markets that had it before. Time for UA to compete.

UA has a shortage of narrowbodies inherited from pmUA, I think we will see AA and UA reduce the amount of regional jets at ORD but it will take time...

What UA and AA need to do at ORD is agree and commit to expand the terminals and replace T2! I think this can be done to their benefit and still protect their interests. The runways are only part of the equation...
 
ripcordd
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:48 pm

This is a huge deal cause the old AA would have never spent money like this for ORD it shows that they are looking to grow ORD and even tho the cubbies suck they draw huge crowds and after all they are supposed to win the world series this year...
 
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United787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 8):

This is a huge deal cause the old AA would have never spent money like this for ORD it shows that they are looking to grow ORD and even tho the cubbies suck they draw huge crowds and after all they are supposed to win the world series this year...

That isn't true. Granted the Cubs is a major deal, AA has been or is a sponsor for a lot of very public events, attractions and venues:

The Chicago Marathon
Chicago Air & Water Show
Arlington Park
Brookfield Zoo
Grant Park Music Festival
Navy Pier
Auditorium Theatre
Broadway in Chicago
Chicago Children’s Museum
Chicago Flower & Garden Show
Chicago International Film Festival
Goodman Theater

Source: http://www.sponsorship.com/iegsr/201...rse-Amid-Industry-Consolidati.aspx
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 3):
IMHO, sponsorship, marketing, branding will mean nothing until they start expanding at ORD. Doug Parker said that once he took over at AA that they would reexamine their focus at ORD. I don't believe we have seen much happening, in fact, I think we have seen the opposite. I don't have the data at my finger tips but I think they have shrunk. How many trans-atlantic destinations were served by AA from ORD this winter? Compare the amount of destinations offered by UA out of ORD to AA and it is easy to see why UA is still "Chicago's Hometown Airline". Yes, I love UA, but I would also love to see AA make more of an effort at ORD.

That is because mergers do not create capacity and allow carriers to launch new routes. Exiting Chapter 11 creates that opportunity.

With regards to its cornerstone hubs, I'd argue that AA has made a LOT of drastic changes that have addressed some very critical, high-priority needs that were long overdue. The deployment of E175s at ORD is pretty huge. Also, a lot of core mainline routes have seen increased frequencies.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 6):

UA needs to get more narrowbodies on property and beef up ORD. AA has a management that has vision and is making huge strides to bring mainline back to markets that had it before. Time for UA to compete.

I'm cautiously optimistic about AA. United, on the other hand, seems to be turning into AA during the Carty era.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:02 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 4):
This is just the beginning guys . Things don't happen overnight .

I'll start believing that AA is serious about ORD when the bring back some of the Europe flights they have cut. And also introduce GRU and maybe bring back DEL on the 787.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:04 pm

And WN is making a push in Atlanta

Slow news day in aviation

AA has a good presence in Chicago. Always has always will


If AA wants to be #1 in Chicago they should take a page from Deltas climb in NYC.

Its a decade long climb of buying slots building terminals and adding initially money losing flights


Beyond that is marketing fluff
 
elbandgeek
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:27 pm

So now UA only has the relevant teams and the bears  

If AA is making a real marketing push I'll be interested to se how UA and even WN respond. UA went really hard after the merger to make sure people knew that they were still the hometown airline in spite of basically becoming CO. It sounds weird but those sports sponsorships carry a lot of weight here. UA won't be losing the Hawks and Bulls anytime soon since the just renewed the naming rights to the United Center. I feel the Bears are too lucrative to give up but if they weren't necessarily fighting to keep the Cubs I could see the Sox moving elsewhere as well, potentially to WN if they were interested. They've historically worked with airlines with southside/MDW ties and had a deal with TZ for a number of years.
 
micstatic
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:50 pm

I wouldn't be suprised to see AA become #1 in the medium term. Times are good for the airlines right now. All of them. But when times are not good, I think UA will quickly become the one in the deepest trouble. Their management team is the weakest in the business, and I see AA striking at a time like this. If AA puts the proper resources into becoming #'1, they will succeed over time.
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HPRamper
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 11):
I'll start believing that AA is serious about ORD when the bring back some of the Europe flights they have cut. And also introduce GRU and maybe bring back DEL on the 787.

So AA is only serious about ORD if they commit to losing money there? Come on now. AA is doing the right thing - cutting unprofitable routes and rightsizing markets. They didn't reduce ORD-Europe/DEL for fun, they were losing their shirt on those routes.

It will take time to retrench at ORD. Some of those routes might come back. Some won't.
 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:08 pm

For those of you who aren't from here, Bulls/Sox are the same owner and they joinly own the United Center with the Blackhawks, so no UA will not lose those, as long as the UC is where the Bulls and Hawks play. I bet that UA will double down with the Bears. Just losing the Cubs as a Cubs fan makes me angry, but they used to have WN and the "Southwest Airlines Plane View Camera" above home plate..

As far as UA is concerned, this only adds to my anger after loosing Channel 9, Bad wifi installation, ruining MileagePlus on 3/1, etc.. If it wasn't for the ORD hub...
Smisek must go.
 
stlgph
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:49 pm

Scoff at the "marketing deal" all you want, but the deal with the Cubs is huge for American. Not that they really needed it, but it definitely solidifies a name/branding position in the marketplace. Even if the Bears, Black Hawks, and White Sox all won their respective top trophies and the Cubs came in last place, the Cubs fan base and reach is so strong if I had my choice on where to advertise, I'd *still* go to the Cubs.
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a380787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 17):
Not that they really needed it, but it definitely solidifies a name/branding position in the marketplace.

You're implying AA's name require solidification at Chicago ?? It's their ORD route network that requires solidification, not the brand itself.
 
commavia
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):
It's their ORD route network that requires solidification, not the brand itself.

Meh. I think AA's ORD route network is already quite "solid," and broadly competitive. AA offers nonstop access from ORD to major markets in Europe and Asia, along with comprehensive coverage of virtually every market of consequence throughout the U.S. Is AA's ORD network as large or broad as United's? No, of course not. And, again, it never will be. But I wouldn't characterize it as requiring any "solidification," per se.
 
stlgph
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:21 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):
You're implying AA's name require solidification at Chicago ?? It's their ORD route network that requires solidification, not the brand itself.

Branding and marketing can always use solidifying, especially from the best advertising and billboards in town (i.e. the Cubs). One side of your operation boosts the branding, the operational side, if they have their crap together, takes what benefits come and run with it. It says you're in marketing on your profile. You should know this.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
a380787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):

Meh. I think AA's ORD route network is already quite "solid," and broadly competitive. AA offers nonstop access from ORD to major markets in Europe and Asia, along with comprehensive coverage of virtually every market of consequence throughout the U.S. Is AA's ORD network as large or broad as United's? No, of course not. And, again, it never will be. But I wouldn't characterize it as requiring any "solidification," per se.

Not that UA is offering all of them, but there are tons of opportunities for AA's ORD network for long haul :

Asia : ICN HKG (KIX)
LatAm : LIM SCL GRU GIG EZE
Europe : AMS BRU FRA MUC ZRH (GVA VIE CPH ARN LIS)
Africa/ME/India : anywhere
 
AABB777
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:42 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):
It's their ORD route network that requires solidification, not the brand itself.

Meh. I think AA's ORD route network is already quite "solid," and broadly competitive. AA offers nonstop access from ORD to major markets in Europe and Asia, along with comprehensive coverage of virtually every market of consequence throughout the U.S. Is AA's ORD network as large or broad as United's? No, of course not. And, again, it never will be. But I wouldn't characterize it as requiring any "solidification," per se.

I don't think a hub is defined as "solid" by how many international markets the hub is connected to. At ORD, as commavia mentions, AA's route network includes key global business destinations - LHR, NRT, PVG - and also includes coverage of nearly every major U.S. city as well as very high frequencies to the top domestic business centers (LGA, LAX, DFW, etc). For the business traveler, based in Chicago, AA offers domestic non-stop connectivity that is arguably just as thorough as what is offered by UA. And, through AA's oneworld partners, such as BA, CX, and QR, AA can take a high value traveler to nearly any top global business destination with as little as one-stop.

[Edited 2015-02-05 12:43:31]
 
ordbosewr
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 21):
Not that UA is offering all of them, but there are tons of opportunities for AA's ORD network for long haul :

Asia : ICN HKG (KIX)
LatAm : LIM SCL GRU GIG EZE
Europe : AMS BRU FRA MUC ZRH (GVA VIE CPH ARN LIS)
Africa/ME/India : anywhere

BRU, FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE, CPN, LIS and ARN are all *A hubs, so AA would be competing not just with UA but the other *A airlines on the other end (and within the *A immunized JV, except TAP). That makes it scary for AA, not impossible, but you have to be willing to build a market and that means accepting loses for some time.
Never mind the fact that UA can't make a couple of those listed work. I would not be shocked, but it is tough.

I find is hard to believe that AA would do much to LAD when they have 2 powerhouse hubs in DFW and MIA to route all traffic through to any destination in LAD a passenger would want. I guess they could pick off one or two high-yielding routes.

Asia would be some good additions
 
OP3000
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):
don't think a hub is defined as "solid" by how many international markets the hub is connected to. At ORD, as commavia mentions, AA's route network includes key global business destinations - LHR, NRT, PVG - and also includes coverage of nearly every major U.S. city as well as very high frequencies to the top domestic business centers (LGA, LAX, DFW, etc). For the business traveler, based in Chicago, AA offers domestic non-stop connectivity that is arguably just as thorough as what is offered by UA. And, through AA's oneworld partners, such as BA, CX, and QR, AA can take a high value traveler to nearly any top global business destination with as little as one-stop.

Well said.

I will add that Chicago is in the middle of the USA, and while more a global city than its peers in the Midwest or Southwest, O&D business travel skews more towards North America than for the other cities in the top 3 of size (New York and Los Angeles) which are coastal.

The merger with US Airways also makes it so that PHL will get a lot of the non-NY European flow that PMAA in the past may have tried to channel through ORD, thus reducing the need for them to consider launching much in the way of new Chicago-Europe routes except for those needed overwhelmingly because of O&D.
 
a380787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting ordbosewr (Reply 23):

BRU, FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE, CPN, LIS and ARN are all *A hubs, so AA would be competing not just with UA but the other *A airlines on the other end (and within the *A immunized JV, except TAP). That makes it scary for AA, not impossible, but you have to be willing to build a market and that means accepting loses for some time.
Never mind the fact that UA can't make a couple of those listed work. I would not be shocked, but it is tough.

That's saying UA shouldn't touch MAD with a 10-ft pole.

AA+US flies to FRA from 4 different hubs so clearly they're not afraid of FRA. Just somehow ORD is left in the cold.

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):

I don't think a hub is defined as "solid" by how many international markets the hub is connected to. At ORD, as commavia mentions, AA's route network includes key global business destinations - LHR, NRT, PVG - and also includes coverage of nearly every major U.S. city as well as very high frequencies to the top domestic business centers (LGA, LAX, DFW, etc). For the business traveler, based in Chicago, AA offers domestic non-stop connectivity that is arguably just as thorough as what is offered by UA. And, through AA's oneworld partners, such as BA, CX, and QR, AA can take a high value traveler to nearly any top global business destination with as little as one-stop.

Network breadth matters just as much as network depth, and network breadth matters more than just "top business destinations". Do you think all European business is conducted in London ? ORD is the 3rd largest hub in the new AA, and the lack of love compared to DFW CLT MIA is apparent.

You have repeated the same ol' PR line that commavia loves touting on this site for years ("top business" and "strong partners" ... we've heard that marketing message before). Both oneworld and Star has "strong partners" so it's no unique advantage for either side.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:09 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):


Of course AA isn't "#1" in Chicago - not even close, never has been and never will be (at least not as long as United exists).


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that AA was #1 in Chicago at some point in the not-too-distant past
by one metric: They were carrying more O&D pax to and from ORD than UA, yet UA was carrying more pax in total
due to connecting traffic.

So in a sense AA was Chicago's "preferred" carrier for a brief time.

Again, I recall reading that "somewhere" so I could of course be incorrect.
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a380787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 26):
They were carrying more O&D pax to and from ORD than UA, yet UA was carrying more pax in total
due to connecting traffic.

So in a sense AA was Chicago's "preferred" carrier for a brief time.

Again, I recall reading that "somewhere" so I could of course be incorrect.

MAH kept citing that line but I don't recall numbers being shared...
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 26):
They were carrying more O&D pax to and from ORD than UA, yet UA was carrying more pax in total
due to connecting traffic.

I think this was true in the mid 2000s during the bankruptcy years but most likely not anymore. I know that a lot of corporate business has switch back to UA in recent years.
 
ckfred
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:32 pm

ORD isn't going to grow in terms of departures and destinations overnight. Frankly, managemetn should be more concerned about SOC and getting the computers switched over to a single reservation system without the problems that UA had.

Once that is done, and some more 787s are on the property, then AA can look into expansion in terms of flights and destinations out of ORD.

Here's my question. Will there be a Cubs logo jet? US has the Arizona Cardinals and Carolina Panthers logo jets. And if the Cubs get a jet, then how long before there is a Dallas Cowboys logo jet?

This is a big deal for both AA and the Cubs. The Cubs have been flying UA for charters going back to the 80s, when ball clubs started to move away from flying on regularly scheduled flights.
 
commavia
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:37 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 25):
Network breadth matters just as much as network depth

Agree - and AA has plenty of network "breadth" at ORD, with nonstop flights to several major business markets in Europe and Asia, and, again, dense coverage of nearly every single market of consequence in the U.S.

As said, AA will never catch United at ORD, but let's keep some perspective here - AA has over 500 daily flights from ORD nonstop to 120 destinations.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 27):
MAH kept citing that line but I don't recall numbers being shared...
Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 28):
I think this was true in the mid 2000s during the bankruptcy years but most likely not anymore. I know that a lot of corporate business has switch back to UA in recent years.

The number was far more recent than the "mid 2000s," and it was in an SEC filing by AMR detailing its plan of reorganization and contemplating the merger with USAirways. It included a graphic which depicted ORD O&D and showed a column for United and a stacked column which, combining AA with USAirways, was slightly higher than that for United. It was a long presentation - dozens and dozens of PowerPoint slides. I can't easily find a copy of that specific filing right now - as AMR literally submitted hundreds of them during the bankruptcy and leading up to the merger - but it's certainly public information, out there on the web somewhere.

[Edited 2015-02-05 14:40:13]
 
a380787
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 30):
It included a graphic which depicted ORD O&D and showed a column for United and a stacked column which, combining AA with USAirways, was slightly higher than that for United.

So it's AA+US. We've been frequently told it's PMAA alone was already higher O&D.
 
jayunited
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:14 pm

From what I heard at work this really came down to money AA was willing to spend more money than UA for exclusive rights to for advertisement at Wrigley Field. But the kicker is UA still does the charter for the Cubs UA was quick to point that out at work. UA kind of took the tone that AA can have the advertisement but we will keep the charter. I'm guessing the charter makes money.

The Ricketts family has to find someone to help them pay for all the upgrades that are in the works for Wrigley Field because the previous owners of the Cubs did not really invest any money what so ever in the ball park instead they pocketed most of the cash. UA was not willing to help finance the major renovations being done now and those yet to come obviously AA was. But the truth is Wrigley Field is a great place to go drink and party most people are waisted by the start of the 3rd inning no one is pay attention to the advertisement hell people hardly pay attention to the Cubs except when they score. Whatever deal was worked out between the Ricketts and AA in the long run the Ricketts will benefit more from it than AA because advertising with the Cubs will not make AA number one in chicago.
 
commavia
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:18 pm



Quoting commavia (Reply 30):
The number was far more recent than the "mid 2000s," and it was in an SEC filing by AMR detailing its plan of reorganization and contemplating the merger with USAirways.

Found it: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701345/000119312513057505/d484344dex991.htm

From slide 14:

"Merged Airline Can Compete More Effectively in Chicago
• The combined airline will have a larger local passenger base in Chicago than United
• United will still have a larger overall operation due to its international flying, but with a solid domestic foundation, the combined airline can compete effectively for international business with United in Chicago"


Quoting a380787 (Reply 31):
So it's AA+US. We've been frequently told it's PMAA alone was already higher O&D.

By who? Example, please.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 32):
advertising with the Cubs will not make AA number one in chicago.

I don't really think that's the measure of success. AA need not be "number one" in Chicago, but merely needs to remain a very strong and competitive #2 - as it has always been.

[Edited 2015-02-05 15:20:36]
 
chicawgo
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 28):
I think this was true in the mid 2000s during the bankruptcy years but most likely not anymore. I know that a lot of corporate business has switch back to UA in recent years.

UA has also lost a lot of corporate contracts recently.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 22):
And, through AA's oneworld partners, such as BA, CX, and QR, AA can take a high value traveler to nearly any top global business destination with as little as one-stop.

Internationally, AA will defer to their alliance partners to operate at ORD as given the recent decision to pull HEL and let AY operate it. Moving forward, you'll see more of this take place.

Now, is that bad? I'm not sure.
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 33):
I don't really think that's the measure of success. AA need not be "number one" in Chicago, but merely needs to remain a very strong and competitive #2 - as it has always been.

I'm guessing that you didn't read the article because the article clearly quotes and AA vice president saying it's about putting a stake in the ground AA is going to be number one in Chicago. I'm not sure how I could have misinterpreted what was quoted in the article. All I'm saying is I don't see how paying all this money to advertise in Wrigley Field gets AA there.
The Ricketts family has been looking for corporate sponsors to help them pay for renovations to Wrigley Field for some time they even threatening the City of Chicago not long ago to move the team to Rosemont when Rosemont offered the Cubs prime real estate for only $1 dollar and offered incentives to help them build an exact replica of Wrigley Field. Chicago ended up giving the Cubs huge tax incentives but even that wasn't enough to help pay for all the work that needs to be done at Wrigley Field. Even with those incentives the Ricketts family still needs sponsors to help offset the cost of bringing this historic ballpark up to current standards. UA said no and although UA won't say how much more money the Ricketts were asking for obviously the number was to high and UA did not see the value in continuing its advertising relationship with the Cubs and anyone who is a regular at Wrigley Field will tell you they don't pay attention to the advertisements within the ballpark.
 
commavia
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 36):
I'm guessing that you didn't read the article because the article clearly quotes and AA vice president saying it's about putting a stake in the ground AA is going to be number one in Chicago.

I can read, but I can also read between the lines of P.R. spin - and that's all it is. All airlines, and indeed all companies, do it. AA isn't going to be #1 in Chicago, and I highly doubt any AA executives seriously think they will - regardless of what the marketing department says.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 35):
Internationally, AA will defer to their alliance partners to operate at ORD as given the recent decision to pull HEL and let AY operate it. Moving forward, you'll see more of this take place.

Now, is that bad? I'm not sure.

Sounds like it will make T5 more crowded which is already strapped for gate space
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:08 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 37):
I can read, but I can also read between the lines of P.R. spin - and that's all it is. All airlines, and indeed all companies, do it. AA isn't going to be #1 in Chicago, and I highly doubt any AA executives seriously think they will - regardless of what the marketing department sa

Don't take it personal there you are reading between the lines I'm reading what was actually quoted don't take it as a personal attack I did not mean for it to come across as one. Since we both are now reading between the lines I see your point and it is valid.
But I do wonder will UA's reluctance to pay more for exclusive advertisement in the ballpark cost them the charter when the current charter contract expires? Perhaps AA see's this as a downpayment to help them steal the charter right out from under UA. Now that might be reason enough to pay whatever the Ricketts asking price was.
 
Chisky16
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:22 pm

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 35):
Internationally, AA will defer to their alliance partners to operate at ORD as given the recent decision to pull HEL and let AY operate it. Moving forward, you'll see more of this take place.

What international markets can AA leave in Chicago that would be taken over by a OneWorld member? As far as I'm aware, the only OneWorld airlines that do not serve ORD are Qantas, LAN, and TAM, and American doesn't even serve those airlines' markets from ORD. I doubt S7, Malaysian, or SriLankan will serve Chicago in the foreseeable future.
Using common knowledge to save the day!
 
catiii
Posts: 3609
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting johnberg (Thread starter):

If sponsoring a baseball team is an indicator of commitment to a hub city, than DL must be totally committed to CVG as the sponsor of the Reds...
 
laca773
Posts: 2081
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:05 am

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 38):
Sounds like it will make T5 more crowded which is already strapped for gate space

I can see AA having AY utilize their gates like they have IB do. It's just one flight and won't take up space except for arriving and deplaning. Then they can tow the a/c to AA's widebody departure concourse.
 
johnberg
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:54 pm

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:20 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 41):

Did you read the part of the article I quoted? AA's VP of marketing was speaking about driving home a stake to be #1 in Chicago. I could care less who sponsors the Cubs. Hence why I copy and pasted those two paragraphs.

[Edited 2015-02-05 20:30:53]
 
delta2ual
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 pm

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:02 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
Meh. There has been positive movement.
Quoting commavia (Reply 19):
Meh. I think AA's ORD route network is already quite "solid,"

I'll admit I haven't been on here in a while, but what is this "Meh" you keep putting before your posts? What does it signify?

Quoting johnberg (Thread starter):
Even though it's based in Texas, American has eyes on the title of "Chicago's hometown airline," said Fernand Fernandez, American's vice president of global marketing.

While I'm not sure they will ever be the "hometown" airline, AA has always had a pretty respectable operation, at least during all the years I lived in Chicago.

[Edited 2015-02-06 03:03:46]
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
AAplat4life
Posts: 324
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RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:46 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 25):
AA+US flies to FRA from 4 different hubs so clearly they're not afraid of FRA. Just somehow ORD is left in the cold.

AA could not offer a competitive productive on ORD-FRA; tired old 767s that were given mediocre refurbishments. So with all of the flights offered by LH and UA, it was inevitable that this route had to go. Conversely, UA can muster up some competition on ORD-LHR against AA/BA. AA's (new) management still has some execution challenges with respect to its product. The improvements are coming, and some were started before the merger, but it is still slow going. Sending me a P.R. email about a new amenity kit isn't going to make up for the sub-par international product. ORD is a much more competitive market compared to most of the other big AA hubs, and this requires more focus. New AA management has even stated that they had to adapt to more competitive hubs. AA is very busy at ORD and planes are full, but it still has competitive challenges and it remains to be seen how, or if, management can address them. Perhaps after the LAX focus is done, AA will turn its attention back to ORD, but time will tell.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 45):
AA could not offer a competitive productive on ORD-FRA; tired old 767s that were given mediocre refurbishments. So with all of the flights offered by LH and UA, it was inevitable that this route had to go.

Not really sure the product would have ever made the difference - it may have helped, but in the end, United and Lufthansa handily dominate this hub-hub route and AA simply wasn't strong enough against that competition. AA briefly scheduled the 777 on ORD-FRA, but I don't believe it even started - the market just wasn't there.

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 45):
Conversely, UA can muster up some competition on ORD-LHR against AA/BA.

A highly imperfect comparison - LHR is a dramatically larger O&D market, so it's sort of obvious that, all else being equal, it would be more likely for the weaker competitor to still be able to make LHR work rather than the weaker competitor being able to make FRA work. In addition, ORD-LHR has never been nearly as dominated by the local hub-hub alliance team (AA/BA) and ORD-FRA has been (by United/Lufthansa). And, alas, yet again - it bears repeating - United's ORD hub is bigger!

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 45):
AA is very busy at ORD and planes are full, but it still has competitive challenges and it remains to be seen how, or if, management can address them.

Well, again, I think it's useful to keep some perspective. It's certainly true that in the last decade - as AA's overall network, and ORD's place in it, have changed - AA has substantially reduced its capacity between ORD and Europe (including discontinuing FRA). At the same time, though, AA has actually increased capacity to Asia net-net.

Either way, though, at this point, it appears that the "competitive challenges" AA faces at ORD are more just the natural, structural disadvantage that AA has always, and likely will always, face at ORD - namely the fact that United has more slots and/or more gates. But AA still has over 500 daily departures from ORD to 120 cities - frequent flights nonstop to every major U.S. city, lots of new 2-class RJs rapidly appearing in Eagle market after Eagle market, Eagle markets seeing upgauges back to mainline, etc. AA at ORD is still an absolutely massive megahub.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 42):
Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 38):
Sounds like it will make T5 more crowded which is already strapped for gate space

I can see AA having AY utilize their gates like they have IB do. It's just one flight and won't take up space except for arriving and deplaning. Then they can tow the a/c to AA's widebody departure concourse.

Tell that to Westjet who is now looking at T5 since AA said they won't gate them on the L concourse with a 1 hour turn.

AY has 4 hour ground time with a widebody a/c.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 25):
That's saying UA shouldn't touch MAD with a 10-ft pole.

AA+US flies to FRA from 4 different hubs so clearly they're not afraid of FRA. Just somehow ORD is left in the cold.

funny you pick MAD, because YES, UA does have a very small presence at MAD (but not from ORD). (all via pmCO)
pmUA used Air Lingus to fly from IAD to MAD, which is now (I think) limited to summer only mainline.

So YES, when you are flying from hub to hub against competitors who in a immunized JV it is a hard battle (and potentially costly). Sometimes you do things to limit the exposure.
In this case you battle from other areas of strength. For example, I bet (without researching) that AA flies to FRA from MIA, PHL, CLT and DFW. All of which would be much better in terms of capturing the O&D traffic from AA's perspective.
I don't see AA going to FRA from SFO or IAD.
 
flybry
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:26 am

RE: Sign Of AA's Commitment To ORD

Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:45 pm

I'm confused. Is AA's hometown Dallas or Chicago now?

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