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Wingtip1005
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Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:30 am

Part 4 has been archived

Airbus A320 Neo Production Thread Part 4 (by American 767 Dec 22 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Please continue below;

Glad to kick off part 5 with some news on the engines! The Leap-1A has begun test flights!

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...tarts-leap-1a-flight-tests-408733/
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:14 am

Quoting Wingtip1005 (Thread starter):
The Leap-1A has begun test flights

Sounds a bit late. I thought it flew in December 2014?
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:38 am

Quoting Wingtip1005 (Thread starter):
Part 4 has been archived

Hmm it was open up until yesterday...

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
I thought it flew in December 2014?

I thought so as well. Maybe the initial source was wrong.
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Wingtip1005
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:10 am

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 2):

I posted this around half 12 last night, so I've probably just missed the cut off.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 2):

So did I, so I had a quick google to make sure I wasn't posting old news. Nothing came up for the -1A test flights, only the -1C flights in October.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:03 pm

The upgraded engines have been installed on MSN 6101 and there was an initial engine run today.
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):
The upgraded engines have been installed on MSN 6101 and there was an initial engine run today.

Nice. So we should see her back in the air in the next week or so right? What about MSN 6286? Whats the status of that frame?
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:28 pm

MSN 6101 is back into the air:

http://fr24.com/AIB54EO/57f3589
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pugman211
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:27 pm

Can confirm first sighting of the wings for the first A321 NEO today. Also, I think the last A320 test frame is nearly ready for the FAL.
 
sirtoby
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:50 am

Anyone on the know of the date we can expect first flight of the first LEAP-powered A320neo (MSN6419)?
The LEAP-1A powered version should enter service abot 6 months after the PW1100G powered A320neo. First flight od the A320neo with PW1100G was in late September, so we should see a first flight with LEAP-1A in late March...
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 8):
First flight od the A320neo with PW1100G was in late September, so we should see a first flight with LEAP-1A in late March...

The LEAP-1A certification is not maintaining that schedule. It is at least 2 to 3 months behind that timeline. May is the earliest timeline I see possible. Later is more likely. The LEAP-1x has had much more troublesome development than the GTF. Partially as the GTF has been on a long development path and has fixed many little issues quietly with plenty of time for redesign.

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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
The LEAP-1A certification is not maintaining that schedule.

The PW1100G also flew on the A320neo before it was certified so that should not be the driving factor.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:08 am

MSN 6419 went into paint last week but the aircraft is still engineless. AFAIK first flight will be in Q2.
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EPA001
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:09 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
The LEAP-1A certification is not maintaining that schedule. It is at least 2 to 3 months behind that timeline. May is the earliest timeline I see possible.

Let's hope that they can get the delay of the engine under control so that in Q2 we will see the A320-neo also flying with the LEAP-1A engine. I guess P&W have a great head start, and to me also the more promising engine concept. But it is always good to have competition so that the customer can choose.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
MSN 6419 went into paint last week but the aircraft is still engineless.

MSN 6419 paint roll out is scheduled for today.

[Edited 2015-02-18 05:31:09]
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:45 am

It seems that Airbus is intending to increase the A320 production capacity at an earlier
time then previously planned:

Quoting Reuters:

(Reuters) - European planemaker Airbus is talking to suppliers about the possibility
of raising production of its popular A320 family to 50 jets a month as early as 2017,
narrowing a gap with rival Boeing (BA.N), a senior industry source said on Tuesday.

Airbus has asked suppliers to be ready to adjust to production of 48 aircraft a month
during 2016, rising to 50 a month in 2017, the source said, asking not to be named.
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Richards2K14
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:24 pm

Will this also include China & new FAL in USA I wonder? I imagine it will be the European Plants & FALs first. Work is being undertaken in Single Aisle Factories to increase capacity to beyound 46 a month. In Broughton Wing Plant new jigs will be installed and new automated
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:57 pm

Quoting Richards2K14 (Reply 15):
Will this also include China & new FAL in USA I wonder?

Difficult to tell at this point though China and USA have the capacity to double production output (from 4 to 8 per month).
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speedbored
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:28 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):
Quoting Richards2K14 (Reply 15):
Will this also include China & new FAL in USA I wonder?
Difficult to tell at this point though China and USA have the capacity to double production output (from 4 to 8 per month).

I doubt that it is FAL capacity that is the limiting factor.

I would be very surprised if the major bottlenecks are not further back in the supply chain. The challenge for Airbus is to convince their suppliers that the rate is sufficiently sustainable to justify the huge investment in additional tooling and staff that many suppliers will need to make to support such a rate increase at such short notice.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:32 pm

Going to 48 per month during 2016 from the current rate of 42, should mean the 4 per month initial rate in Mobile and a 2 per month rate increase on top of that. Toulouse is as I heard it on the highest possible rate. I do not expect a rate increase in Tianjin. It could be going in Mobile past the initial 4 to 6 and than in 2017 to 8 for 50 per month. But I heard also that a rate increase in Finkenwerder is possible.

The rate increase to 46 has been known since Mobile was started. That Airbus was contemplating a further increase to 50 has been talked about last year.
The strangest comment in the Reuters article is about Airbus truing to catch up to the Boeing rate. I thought that Airbus has produced more single aisle frames the last ten years, will be in front of Boeing during this year and staying in front through 2016.

[Edited 2015-02-24 10:37:43]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:56 am

Only one flight in February so far... It looks like even MSN0001 is flying more than MSN6101!

I also have doubts that we'll be seeing MSN6286's flirst flight this month...

[Edited 2015-02-25 00:57:14]
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:03 pm

F-WNEO is up in the air since a couple of minutes.
http://www.flightradar24.com/AIB55EO
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:31 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 17):
I would be very surprised if the major bottlenecks are not further back in the supply chain. The challenge for Airbus is to convince their suppliers that the rate is sufficiently sustainable to justify the huge investment in additional tooling and staff that many suppliers will need to make to support such a rate increase at such short notice.

Yes, sounds about right.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 18):
Going to 48 per month during 2016 from the current rate of 42, should mean the 4 per month initial rate in Mobile and a 2 per month rate increase on top of that. Toulouse is as I heard it on the highest possible rate. I do not expect a rate increase in Tianjin. It could be going in Mobile past the initial 4 to 6 and than in 2017 to 8 for 50 per month. But I heard also that a rate increase in Finkenwerder is possible.

The rate increase to 46 has been known since Mobile was started. That Airbus was contemplating a further increase to 50 has been talked about last year.
The strangest comment in the Reuters article is about Airbus truing to catch up to the Boeing rate. I thought that Airbus has produced more single aisle frames the last ten years, will be in front of Boeing during this year and staying in front through 2016.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 18):
I do not expect a rate increase in Tianjin.

I suppose that depend on how many orders the Chinese carriers will place in the coming years.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 18):
The strangest comment in the Reuters article is about Airbus truing to catch up to the Boeing rate. I thought that Airbus has produced more single aisle frames the last ten years, will be in front of Boeing during this year and staying in front through 2016.

Reuters was referring to the 737 rate of 52 per month in 2018.
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Richards2K14
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:14 pm

I think China will be going to rate 8 eventually. Mobile will stay at 4 a month for the first year or so initially delivering A321's. Toulouse is ok as Hamburg deliveries the majority of A320 series aircraft and plans are in place to extend the capacity there. Broughton are getting new jigs with new processes incl automated drilling which will make the lead times shorter and with a capacity of up to 50+ a month!

I read somewhere on the net last year about Boeing's wing facility now doing this and upping their capacity so Airbus is rightly following suit
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:04 pm

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 20):
F-WNEO is up in the air since a couple of minutes.

Third flight of the month today:

http://fr24.com/AIB56EO/59f02fb
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mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:03 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
Reuters was referring to the 737 rate of 52 per month in 2018.

I still do not see the "catching up". Airbus is going to 50 in the first quarter of 2017 a full year before Boeing wants to be at 54 and everything we talk about here is planing.. Catching up means you start doing something somebody else is doing already

.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:12 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 25):
I still do not see the "catching up".

It's just a term the media loves to use.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 25):
Boeing wants to be at 54

52
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:37 am

I think that it is significant that Airbus will start with off with assembling A321 in Mobile. Up to now A321 has only been assembled in Finkenwerder, I thing it is a big signal of the shift to the A321 in the production mix at Airbus.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:41 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 27):
I thing it is a big signal of the shift to the A321 in the production mix at Airbus.

Yes, this year 37% of A320 family output will be for the A321 model and the number will keep rising in the coming years.
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sirtoby
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:22 pm

 
parapente
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:36 pm

reply 28
Yes, this year 37% of A320 family output will be for the A321 model and the number will keep rising in the coming years.

The shift is quite extraordinary (to me) and yes the %age number is going to keep going up.The demise of the 319 has been equally sharp. I am advised on this thread that it will be made (the 319 NEO) if only for the corporate market. But I do wonder. How many really firm orders are there for the 319NEO now - and might they not be better 'upsold' into 320NEO's?
Would save them a ton of cash if they did not have to develop the 319NEO after all they could still sell the 319CEO as a corporate jet.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 30):
The shift is quite extraordinary (to me) and yes the %age number is going to keep going up.The demise of the 319 has been equally sharp. I am advised on this thread that it will be made (the 319 NEO) if only for the corporate market. But I do wonder. How many really firm orders are there for the 319NEO now - and might they not be better 'upsold' into 320NEO's?
Would save them a ton of cash if they did not have to develop the 319NEO after all they could still sell the 319CEO as a corporate jet.

The PW version of the A319neo MSN 6464 should be right around the corner I assume already in FAL.
There will be no ceo after switching to the neo, production will be switched to the new version of the wing needed for the new engines.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:36 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 31):
The PW version of the A319neo MSN 6464 should be right around the corner I assume already in FAL.

MSN 6464 should enter final assembly in December this year.
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LH707330
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 30):
Would save them a ton of cash if they did not have to develop the 319NEO after all they could still sell the 319CEO as a corporate jet.

The engineering's pretty easy, so the only real cost is running whatever certification tests they need. I reckon the breakeven count is probably a few dozen units at most that they can place with hot & high operators, plus it keeps BBD honest with the CSeries. Best case they sell a hundred or so and use the commonality versus the CS300 to win campaigns, worst case nobody buys any and they wasted a few million (50?) on testing. Oh well.
 
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:44 pm

Flight number 62:

http://fr24.com/AIB62EO/5ab7532

Quoting starbucks (Reply 19):
I also have doubts that we'll be seeing MSN6286's flirst flight this month...

There's still no ground activity around MSN 6286. No engine run, no taxi test. Spotters have not seen the aircraft for months.
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planemaker
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 30):
The shift is quite extraordinary (to me) and yes the %age number is going to keep going up.The demise of the 319 has been equally sharp.

Which is logical when you look at the consolidation that has gone on in the industry coupled with organic growth.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 33):
they wasted a few million (50?) on testing.

Sometimes people forget that the OEM's have spent several hundred $million/yr just on the current models' R&D.
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mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 33):
The engineering's pretty easy, so the only real cost is running whatever certification tests they need. I reckon the breakeven count is probably a few dozen units at most that they can place with hot & high operators, plus it keeps BBD honest with the CSeries. Best case they sell a hundred or so and use the commonality versus the CS300 to win campaigns, worst case nobody buys any and they wasted a few million (50?) on testing. Oh well.

There are orders for 49 of the A319neo as it is, 100 should be an easy mark.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:44 am

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 33):
The engineering's pretty easy, so the only real cost is running whatever certification tests they need. I reckon the breakeven count is probably a few dozen units at most that they can place with hot & high operators, plus it keeps BBD honest with the CSeries. Best case they sell a hundred or so and use the commonality versus the CS300 to win campaigns, worst case nobody buys any and they wasted a few million (50?) on testing. Oh well.

A319neo will also become the base platform for the ACJ319 (A319 business jet).
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r2rho
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 33):
The engineering's pretty easy, so the only real cost is running whatever certification tests they need. I reckon the breakeven count is probably a few dozen units at most that they can place with hot & high operators, plus it keeps BBD honest with the CSeries. Best case they sell a hundred or so and use the commonality versus the CS300 to win campaigns, worst case nobody buys any and they wasted a few million (50?) on testing. Oh well.

Agree. Otherwise they hand the market over to the CSeries for nothing. And I still think that, while its market will be a small niche, the A319NEO will fare better than the A318.
 
sirtoby
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 34):
There's still no ground activity around MSN 6286. No engine run, no taxi test. Spotters have not seen the aircraft for months.

Engines are installed. First flight towards the end of the month.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:02 pm

Several flights in the past few days:

- AIB63EO
- AIB64EO
- AIB65EO

On a related note, Airbus expects that unions will target the A320 plant in Alabama:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...target-a320-fal-in-alabama-410269/
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sirtoby
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 40):
Several flights in the past few days:

And just heading for the next one (AIB66EO):

http://www.flightradar24.com/#AIB66E...uid=142668914901805543450684557647
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 39):
Engines are installed. First flight towards the end of the month.

=> spotted outside today:


A320neo Airbus Industrie D-AVVA by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:42 am

Seems that CFM Leap-1A engine misses its SFC spec by 2%.

http://aeroturbopower.blogspot.com/2...15/03/cfm-leap-1b-missing-sfc.html

[Edited 2015-03-19 04:00:27]
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seahawk
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:54 am

That deserves its own thread.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:01 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 43):

I can't say I'm completely surprised.

The whole premise of beating or even matching the efficiency of an entirely new and revolutionary technology using only evolutionary increases of an old technology was a wobbly concept to start with. CFM might have been quite bombastic about it, but I had a feeling the engineers would be under quite some pressure to deliver what the salesmen were bragging to their customers...

Will the CFM be the engines that forever trails its competitor now? Times are-a-changing...

Not good news for CFM and the NEO program, but being a fan of the PW geared fan concept from day one, I'm quite happy for them. That should help boost sales.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:10 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 44):
That deserves its own thread.
Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
I can't say I'm completely surprised.

I suggest we continue the discussion in tech / ops.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Flyglobal
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:33 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
Not good news for CFM and the NEO program, but being a fan of the PW geared fan concept from day one, I'm quite happy for them. That should help boost sales.

And the enxt question: what does itmean for the China Plane and even more for the 737 Max?

Flyglobal
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:40 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 43):

I can't say I'm completely surprised.

The whole premise of beating or even matching the efficiency of an entirely new and revolutionary technology using only evolutionary increases of an old technology was a wobbly concept to start with. CFM might have been quite bombastic about it, but I had a feeling the engineers would be under quite some pressure to deliver what the salesmen were bragging to their customers...

Will the CFM be the engines that forever trails its competitor now? Times are-a-changing...

Not good news for CFM and the NEO program, but being a fan of the PW geared fan concept from day one, I'm quite happy for them. That should help boost sales.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 46):
Quoting seahawk (Reply 44):
That deserves its own thread.
Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
I can't say I'm completely surprised.

I suggest we continue the discussion in tech / ops.

I think it should have its own thread and it is not only a tech / ops issue. The shortfall on the Leap 1A impacts only the choice of engines on the A320neo, perhaps a few more will chose PW. But the shortfall on the Leap 1b will with 5% impact the A320neo versus 737MAX competition and should, if not corrected, be an influencing factor on sales.
 
parapente
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RE: Airbus A320NEO Production Thread Part 5

Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:02 pm

If one has bought an A320NEO aircraft and the fuel burn is below spec (as indicated in the article) can one tear up the contract and switch to the other engine supplier or do you simply have to demand compensation from the contracted supplier?

I guess with the 737MAX orders you simply 'have' to take the compensation route.

PS seems a little off discussing a 738MAX LR in these circumstances!

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Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos