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catiii
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:07 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 103):

You're right, it is ridiculous. I've been trying for a while to get you to validate the absolute statements you made about United and its pilots...

[Edited 2015-02-08 16:29:32]
 
tommy767
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:24 am

Quoting SkyWest700 (Reply 102):

I'd actually be curious as to how some of these TATL route perform from EWR. Over the years several routes have bitten the dust including CPH, DUS, STR, BFS. This is also especially considering DL & AA choose not to fly them out of Kennedy. I think it's entirely possible that during the winter some of these routes barely break even.

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 94):

Never seen UA pilots behave like this. In fact, they seem to be some of the best in the industry.

However, on a recent LAX-SFO flight I got an earful from one of the F/A's about being an ex-con. It's some of these old CO F/A's that seem to think they are better than UA, but really have no other place to go except retirement.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
SkyWest700
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 105):
BFS is seasonal comes back at the end of March.

CPH went to SAS through star alliance.

We were all shocked when STR went away that flight was always full we felt it could handle a 763. We'll see if it comes back with a bigger plane. Unless the fairs were junk.

[Edited 2015-02-08 16:45:38]
 
strfyr51
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 45):
The question IS, must I have been on a diverted flight to raise a question about the apparent problem UA has with their 757TATL ops during winter?

As a matter of FACT?? Yeah!! Or? you're beating your gums!
 
EI320
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:37 am

Frequent diversions do not make for a good service no matter what way you spin it. But for as long as passengers are willing to put up with these stopovers, UA will stick at it.

It's a tricky scenario for any airline flying these long, thin routes. It's a case of either flying a 757 and accepting the diversions that go with it, or not flying the route at all. The 757 was never designed for routes like EWR-TXL, but without it, such routes most likely wouldn't exist.
 
CALMSP
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:39 am

The only scheduled upgrades this coming summer are EWR-TXL/BCN/LIS. All moving to 763 equipment.
 
LN-KGL
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:47 am

Let's make different approach to UA's B752 operation using actual numbers for how well they are doing it. To illustrate this I will only use the numbers for UA38/39 (EWR-OSL-EWR) on the European side of the Atlantic. On the OSL website you can find regularity, punctuality and delay times for every flight number - both scheduled and charter flights - for each month. To only look at a few winter months isn't the best way to find trends, and therefore I've looked at what happened to UA's activity at OSL for the whole 2014.

The on time performance both for UA38 arriving OSL and UA39 departing OSL in 2014 was 75%. This was well below the average performance of alle operators at OSL which were on time on 88% of the flights in 2014. It is easy to see the winter season effect with strong tailwind over the Atlantic since the average on time performance is 10 percentage points higher for UA arrivals to OSL than the average for the year. No need to say more about the US summer season performance than it points in opposite direction than the rest of the operator at OSL. If we look at the regularity 3 flights were canceled at EWR with 3 more being canceled at OSL. All cancelations at OSL were due to technical issues and many passengers experienced more than 24 hours delays due to this. The delay times of delayed aircraft increased with in average 20 minutes after a visit to OSL. This increase was not because poor ground handling performance, but again technical issues with single flights that resulted in a heavy delay. The months with heaviest technical delays were April, May and November.

I would say the UA B752 fleet is getting old and the technical standard seems to be below what one would expect from legacy carrier. The rather poor on time performance can't be related to which US airport they operate from as long as SAS had a punctuality of 100% arriving from EWR to OSL with their A333 in 2014. In other words the difference must be a combination of carrier and aircraft type. I have not said a thing about being professional, fuel stop westbound and delays at EWR in this reply, but the things I mention above and trip reports on this website make me not choose UA. Last friday I ordered a return flight with Air France for a business trip to Chile next month. One of other option I had was OSL-EWR-IAH-SCL with UA, but this was one of the first deselected.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:00 am

Abusing airplanes means either crashing them deliberately or severely neglecting it of maintenance and still flying it.

UA is a lot of things but airplane abuser is not one of them.  
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
B737900ER
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:12 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 110):

Is that international flights or all carriers? Otherwise it's an apples to oranges comparison.

I do agree though that you can't look at the reliability of a 12 month operation by what happens in 17 select days. So does anyone have yearly diversion rates? That would give a better understanding of what the majority of passengers experiecnce
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:33 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 24):

Especially since AB doesn't fly TXL-JFK at all with an A330

I wish people would look stuff up before rushing to prove someone "wrong." AB does in fact fly TXL-JFk as pointed out earlier, and on an A330.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 33):
What some members fail to understand is how UA can accept a completion factor of only 40% in January and 50% in December without diversions. That is not how a major, world leading airline from the US should operate

I agree.

Quoting catiii (Reply 47):
A "problem" that YOU perceive, in a winter where we've had the strongest winds over the North Atlantic in recent memory combined with two storms in the last month that have cause major operational delays at the NYC airports.

That's what was said here last winter when this was discussed.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 49):

This is a yearly occurrence on their deeper European 757 TATLs. Nothing new for this year. I can bet you a $100 that you will see the same thing next winter on those 757 routes.

Yep.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:52 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 110):
The on time performance both for UA38 arriving OSL and UA39 departing OSL in 2014 was 75%. This was well below the average performance of alle operators at OSL which were on time on 88% of the flights in 2014. It is easy to see the winter season effect with strong tailwind over the Atlantic since the average on time performance is 10 percentage points higher for UA arrivals to OSL than the average for the year. No need to say more about the US summer season performance than it points in opposite direction than the rest of the operator at OSL. If we look at the regularity 3 flights were canceled at EWR with 3 more being canceled at OSL. All cancelations at OSL were due to technical issues and many passengers experienced more than 24 hours delays due to this. The delay times of delayed aircraft increased with in average 20 minutes after a visit to OSL. This increase was not because poor ground handling performance, but again technical issues with single flights that resulted in a heavy delay. The months with heaviest technical delays were April, May and November.

UA should just give the route up to SAS. I'm actually surprised they still operate this route considering SAS is on it -- local market is definitely not big. They could use the 757 on the California-Hawaii routes instead of having the dumpy 739ER take a weight penality.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
catiii
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 110):
as

How can you compare a A330 and its performance to a 757? Not sure the point you're making. One airplane has drastically different range and performance than the other.

It has nothing to do with UA's 757 fleet age (in fact I bet it is amongst the youngest in the industry), or the technical standards UA has. It's a simple function of the 757's range and performance being X, and on some days westbound in the North Atlantic in winter (be it on UA, US, AA, etc) X isn't good enough and necessitates a tech stop.
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 115):

How can you compare a A330 and its performance to a 757? Not sure the point you're making. One airplane has drastically different range and performance than the other.

That is the entire point of this topic. A 757 is not going to be nearly as reliable to complete the route as scheduled, as an A330. The A330 is far more suitable for the route in terms of making the flight a non-stop flight.

At some point in the past few years, EWR-TXL-EWR was run with at 762 during the winter in response to the poor performance by the 757 on the route during winter. Unfortunately, without the 762 in the fleet anymore, UA has chosen to take a step backwards with the 757.
 
catiii
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 116):

What's more suitable for making the flight a nonstop flight though isn't always what's suitable for making a profit, generating the best yield, and optimizing the fleet. So if you get all that from the 757, and can roll the dice that you take the occasional tech stop, why wouldn't you do so? I guess my point is they could throw a 744 on the route, not take the occasional tech stop, but lose their shirts on it.

And I never understood why they didn't keep the PMCO 762s.

[Edited 2015-02-08 19:13:24]

[Edited 2015-02-08 19:13:53]
 
BMcD
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:21 am

I hate all the UA bashing. Its petty, like the A vs B or Seahawk fans talking about the Patriot fans...haters gonna hate. I flew UA last October and routed myself through DEN on my way to MCO so I could fly the 787. Computer issues caused us to be late leaving the gate in DEN and while the pilot made up a lot of time, I missed my connecting flight by 12 minutes. The gate agent went out of their way to get me a meal voucher, called the hotel at the airport and got me a room, rebooked for the next morning and made sure that I was good to go (I was traveling alone, with a service dog in a wheelchair). Each leg of my trip I found the ground staff and cabin crew very nice and went out of their way to make sure that I was comfy as was my service dog. I think you hear the whiners as they are a very vocal minority, while those of us that have awesome trips don't normally take time out of our days to come out and say what an awesome experience they had. Tech stops happen, planes break and some customers will never be happy.
DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80/2/3, 717, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787, L1011, CRJ2/7/900, A320, A321, A330, Saab 340
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 103):
Listen, if your trying to be correct in saying that UA is good then you're wrong. I have told you my answer. I give up and am leaving this foroum. This is just ridiculous .

What's ridiculous is you telling somebody that their opinion is wrong...
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 117):
What's more suitable for making the flight a nonstop flight though isn't always what's suitable for making a profit, generating the best yield, and optimizing the fleet. So if you get all that from the 757, and can roll the dice that you take the occasional tech stop, why wouldn't you do so?

I guess it all depends on what the definition of "occasional tech stop" is. The stats cited earlier in this thread do not seem to indicate "occasional" to me. UA knows they're going to have this problem every winter, yet do they anywhere during the booking process disclose this to their customers?
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 120):
I guess it all depends on what the definition of "occasional tech stop" is. The stats cited earlier in this thread do not seem to indicate "occasional" to me. UA knows they're going to have this problem every winter, yet do they anywhere during the booking process disclose this to their customers?

They stated is occurred several days in a row. That indicates a weather event since a strong jet can stay that way for a while. Why don't we look at YOY for the last 5 years and see what that shows.
 
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gdg9
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:31 am

No mention of 50,000 hour UA 744s sitting in the desert on this thread?   
@dfwtower
 
tharanga
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 120):
yet do they anywhere during the booking process disclose this to their customers?

And this is the key. If there's at least, say, a 10% chance of a diversion, I think that should be disclosed at time of booking. And it should be considered when deciding which connections can be sold. Some people on here seem to think that all passengers will know about the higher probability of diversion on these routes, but that simply is not the case.
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 121):
Why don't we look at YOY for the last 5 years and see what that shows.

Sure. I don't have access to that info, but hopefully someone here does.
 
BMcD
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 122):
No mention of 50,000 hour UA 744s sitting in the desert on this thread?

Some folks would complain that they would have to pay for the larger bird going in. "Tickets were affordable with the 57 coming in, they came in with the bigger plane so they could charge us more because no one else does these routes..."
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B737900ER
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 124):

Ok. So before jumping to conclusions can we get some real numbers?

But until then Let's say the flight operates 300 days a year. It diverts 30 of those days. That's a 10% diversion rate. So if UA, at the time of booking said, "this flight operates non-stop 90% of the time" would you be satisfied? I would wager that the vast majority of passengers wouldn't blink an eye. I'm sure there are a few routes that don't have a 90% completion factor, let alone diversions.
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 126):
But until then Let's say the flight operates 300 days a year. It diverts 30 of those days. That's a 10% diversion rate. So if UA, at the time of booking said, "this flight operates non-stop 90% of the time" would you be satisfied? I would wager that the vast majority of passengers wouldn't blink an eye. I'm sure there are a few routes that don't have a 90% completion factor, let alone diversions.

We know this is a problem in the winter. It's been discussed here practically every winter for the past few years (with the exception of the year that the 762 was flying the route).

Looking at the entire year is irrelevant when it comes to evaluating winter ops.

[Edited 2015-02-08 19:59:55]
 
B737900ER
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:06 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 127):

Why is the whole year irrevelant? You can take any stat and move it however you like. I can take a week of Chicago overnight low temps in January and make a case that it's the coldest place on earth based on those stats, but is that fair? Is that accurate?

What's relevant is how the majority are affected, and that's a full year stat. If you want to say passengers in January have to make more fuel stops, that would be accurate. But to say an entire route, or equipment is a failure, while leaving out 92% of the data is disingenuous.
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:10 am

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 128):
Why is the whole year irrevelant? You can take any stat and move it however you like. I can take a week of Chicago overnight low temps in January and make a case that it's the coldest place on earth based on those stats, but is that fair? Is that accurate?

What's relevant is how the majority are affected, and that's a full year stat. If you want to say passengers in January have to make more fuel stops, that would be accurate. But to say an entire route, or equipment is a failure, while leaving out 92% of the data is disingenuous.

No using a whole year is irrelevant. You need to look at the time period with issues over the last several years and compare. Just the same way you'd look at the passenger numbers per each time of the year and adjust frequency and equipment as necessary. You don't make seasonal schedule changes based on data from outside that season. It doesn't mean anything.
 
lax777lr
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:16 am

I'm thoroughly enjoying the bitterness, debate, and justification for said bitterness. Thank you! Um, if the route wasn't economically viable (customers paying for it despite apparently horrid operational statistics), they wouldn't fly it. If UA could profitably fly a larger, longer-range frame......... They would.... Keep entertaining us please!
 
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mayor
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:26 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 23):
And, just like last year, I see we have some members here who are picking on the person who has pointed out how unacceptable these diversions are.

I would imagine that a diversion is entirely more acceptable than a ditching.  
Quoting B747forever (Reply 41):
Do you think it is okay when UA markets TXL-EWR as nonstop, but as data shows close to 60% diverted in January? Isnt that false marketing in your eyes?

How many of those diversions are fuel stops? How many for medical, etc.? Obviously, they can plan for a fuel stop ahead of time, but not for a medical, mechanical, etc.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 55):
The TriStar used to have trouble getting across the pond if it was heavily loaded!

So did the MD-11 (big pond).

Quoting catiii (Reply 92):

Great! That's awesome for you. Now please explain why you think the pilots are so unprofessional.

Very little of these diversions, no matter the reason, can be blamed on the pilots. Not sure why he thinks they are.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
INFINITI329
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:32 am

UA/CO has been doing this for years, heres article from 2012 stating the exact same problem

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...4052970203436904577152974098241982
 
B737900ER
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 129):

You can't look at any route through the microcosm of a few weeks. Especially when we are talking about weather. Some have made the claim that UA should adjust for this. I'll ask how? Let's say that this year the first 10 days of January had strong winds. Does UA then not schedule flights for the first 10 days of January next year? What if it's windy 10 days earlier or 10 days later. What should UA do? Cancel the flight? Suspend the route for a few months, even though it operates with no problems 80% of the time in that period?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:15 am

Its tough, i am sure those cities do not want to loose their links. What is united to do? Those cities cant support a 767 and they happen to be in the path of insanely strong head winds. Lets also remember your picking a bad time, on a 365 year calendar these routes have way lower number of stops. It does seem like uniteds worse than ever on these, are the planes burning more fuel as they get older, or are the winds just unusually strong?
 
rta
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:25 am

I guess since this sort of service has been active for so long, it means that the passengers prefer having a direct flight, even it means a little bit of uncertainty in the schedule.

If not, I figured demand would be weak... and the route would've been axed by now.
 
Brewfangrb
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting texasaggie (Reply 93):
I think it's stretching quite a bit for United to advertise this as non-stop and agree there should be a warning stating it is likely, not just possible, to get to your destination late or miss a connection due to fuel stops.

Likely? We only know it diverted about 50% of the time NOW, because it already happened. So in September, if someone books this flight for travel in January, you want them to say at booking "Well, last January, we diverted 50% of the time because of strong headwinds...we (and everyone else) have absolutely no idea whether that will occur again and certainly not whether it will happen on the day of your flight, but we just wanted to tell you this because some people on the internet are mad we don't ineffeciently deploy assets by using a 767-300 on this flight instead of a typically perfectly capable 757-200. So if you think this, on top of the 67845 other reasons this flight may have to divert or otherwise not make it to EWR within 15 minutes of its expected time of arrive, is unacceptable, please consider taking an inconvenient, out of the way connection to FRA and to EWR from there, or use the one other option for a non-stop flight to EWR, which may or may not be wholly price uncompetitive."

Sure I guess that seems like a reasonable disclaimer and people will be suitably upset by it at that time, forcing UA to kill the flight, which might not be good for people who want to fly TXL-EWR, but at least UA won't be operating unprofessionally.

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 94):
The only thing I have against the UA pilots is that they claim that their better then UA. The stewardeses and customer service people are the ones who are unprofessional (and their CEO who doesn't care for his customers). I hope this answers your question (in a good way).

I'm not convinced I should trust the evaluation of the performnce of others from someone who says "stewardesses" and is unable to determine when to use a possessive or a contraction.

[Edited 2015-02-08 23:33:57]
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:59 am

It's so funny reading this thread, seeing so many people with US flags next to their name defending UA, and at the same time completely failing to see the thread starter's points.

I believe UA could easily fill a larger aircraft on the OSL-EWR route. Their 757 is often fully booked, even with fares higher than on both SK and DY/DU. In the aviation community here, people try to avoid those UA flights exactly because of all the delays and cancellations.. and because you pay a premium price to fly an old aircraft with really crappy interior.

But the general public doesn't know about all the cancellations and delays and diversions. And this is one of B747forever's points; is it really fair to sell these tickets as a non-stop route, when in fact half of the flights get delayed during several months of the year... and not just one year, it happens every winter! Is this good business practice?

There are people in this thread actually making a point that 50% of the flights are not delayed, and therefore it's not a problem... that's just insane logic:

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 58):
Almost half of the flights (just going my your metrics) make it nonstop. Why should they market EVERY flight as a one-stop when it could make it nonstop?


And there are people who don't think that cancellations and delays cause people to miss their flights.. and when the response is that "of course they miss connections"..they then demand proof that pax actually missed their flights. I mean... come on:

Quoting catiii (Reply 50):
And again, what has the impact been on misconnections? If it is negligible then this is a non-issue. And I'll defend a 100% diversion rate if it doesn't impact connections in any meaningful way.

But then you wouldn't have anything to complain about....
 
dc10co
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:16 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 91):

I'm sorry, but as a United employee I find your comments extremely rude and uncalled for. I'm proud to work among some of the most professional customer service reps and "stewardesses", myself included. I've been many things at work but unprofessional is not one of them. Not to attack you personally but you really should think before you insult an entire hardworking group of people, perhaps you think you could do the job more professionally?

In regards to the fuel stops, I've flown many a 757 hop across the pond and have been fortunate not to have to divert. That includes almost 9 hours in a last row middle seat from LIS-EWR   
Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.
 
steman
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:26 am

Hello,

can anyone tell me how are UA 757s on the TXL route configured?
How many seats and which seat pitch?
Do they have IFE in Economy?
And what happens when there´s a diversion or a fuel stop? Where do they usually land?
Do passengers get to stretch their legs in the terminal or do they have to remain on board?
How much more time gets added to the total trip time from TXL to EWR (or the other way round?)

Thank you

Stefano
 
Max Q
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:17 am

I thought this thread was going to be about legacy UA's neglect in of their 757 maintenance !
Now that really was abuse as can be seen by their condition.


As far as pushing the range on some TATL flights and having to stop sometimes you could always have a guaranteed
stop on another airline..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
bhmdiversion
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:24 pm

I'm not going to read through all these replies but I hope someone has said that the reason for the tech stops in the Maritimes is due to Involuntary Denied Boardings. These trips are booked with as many passengers as possible for the most revenue... however, those occasions that come up where an alternate is required, or strong headwinds, etc. that would affect the performance of the 757 and their max fuel of 75000 lbs. Most of these stops are done so (possibly) up to 40 paying passengers are not denied boarding and some being subjected to the European IDB rules of compensation.
 
Ekfan
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:35 pm

 
a380787
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 88):

For starters, spelling
 
bgm
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RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting DC10CO (Reply 134):
I'm sorry, but as a United employee I find your comments extremely rude and uncalled for. I'm proud to work among some of the most professional customer service reps and "stewardesses", myself included. I've been many things at work but unprofessional is not one of them. Not to attack you personally but you really should think before you insult an entire hardworking group of people, perhaps you think you could do the job more professionally?
Quoting Max Q (Reply 136):
I thought this thread was going to be about legacy UA's neglect in of their 757 maintenance !


So you're saying part of your fleet is poorly maintained? Yup, very "professional" indeed.  
 
LN-KGL
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 6:40 am

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:08 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 111):
How can you compare a A330 and its performance to a 757?

If you had read what I wrote and used your little grey ones then it would have been perfectly clear that the comparison is valid. On eastbound flights fuel isn't an issue for the B752 between EWR and OSL. As I see it, the cause for this poor on time performance has nothing to do with the crews on board their B752s, but more relates to issues of technical nature and how well/poor United's operations at EWR are.

Of the more recent event we have the technical issue with ship 140 on 31 January 2015. Radio failure after take off from EWR and followed by a subsequent mandatory roundflight over the eastern part of NJ, N41140 landed almost one hour later. No luck correcting the aircraft right away. Ship 140 had to be abandoned, but with jetbridge not working at the gate ship 140 was parked, more time was lost. A bit more than 90 minutes after landing at EWR UA38 take 2 was ready for its departure. As a result of this + I guess other issues with UA38 in January, this flight number ended up with a punctuality of 75% arriving OSL and an average delay for the six delayed flights of 92 minutes.

One of the passengers on the UA38 31 Janaury won the lottery one week earlier too - on the 24th on UA39 where he ended up arriving 5 hours behind schedule at EWR. The first two hours was a delay at OSL (late inbound aircraft) and then a planned fuel stop at Gander (which later became Albany), crew timed out and new crew flew in from EWR and then flew the last jump from ALB to EWR that lasted 3 more hours. I wil not repeat what the lottery winner said after this trip, but I suspect the next trip will not be on United.
 
United1
Posts: 4196
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:30 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 83):
I worked with Eastern for 25 years, some of which in Control enter.

...then you should know that all airlines push their aircraft to the limits on some routes. That's part of the business of making money...clearly something EA clearly did very poorly.

Quoting steman (Reply 135):
can anyone tell me how are UA 757s on the TXL route configured?
How many seats and which seat pitch?
Do they have IFE in Economy?

All of the 757s that UA flies on transatlantic routes have nose to tail AVOD, power ports and a growing number have WiFi. The aircraft is configured for 16 fully flat seats in J class and 153 in Y+/Y pitched at 37/34/31 inches depending on if you are in an exit row, economy plus or regular economy.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
catiii
Posts: 3644
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 141):
If you had read what I wrote and used your little grey ones then it would have been perfectly clear that the comparison is valid. On eastbound flights fuel isn't an issue for the B752 between EWR and OSL. As I see it, the cause for this poor on time performance has nothing to do with the crews on board their B752s, but more relates to issues of technical nature and how well/poor United's operations at EWR are.

No, I understood, and if YOU had "used your little grey ones" it would have been perfectly clear to you that it is a totally invalid comparison. Putting an A330 equivalent on the route makes it unprofitable, and thus not viable. It has zero to do with the quality of UA's operation at EWR, which is top notch by the way (and I say that working for a direct competitor).

As I said, what's more suitable for making the flight not have a westbound tech stop threat in the winter isn't always what's suitable for making a profit, generating the best yield, and optimizing the fleet. Right now the 757 is the best airplane for the mission, and UA rolls the dice that they'll take the occasional tech stop (just like US does out of BRU etc., and AA does out of CDG) to make the flight work in their network. They could throw a 764 on the route, not take the occasional tech stop, but also not make any money at all on it.

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 133):
Their 757 is often fully booked, even with fares higher than on both SK and DY/DU.

So then the market must not care one way or the other...



Quoting steman (Reply 135):
can anyone tell me how are UA 757s on the TXL route configured?

Check out Seat Guru or United.com. It has all that info.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:13 pm

This winter I have both UA OSL-EWR and AA CDG-JFK booked, both with 757s. Let's see which one will end up diverting   

Good thing is that NYC is my final destination so there's no risk of misconnect.
 
catiii
Posts: 3644
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 133):
And there are people who don't think that cancellations and delays cause people to miss their flights.. and when the response is that "of course they miss connections"..they then demand proof that pax actually missed their flights. I mean... come on:

If UA is already building the potential for a tech stop into their schedules, or are proactively rebooking customers on other flights in order to minimize missed connections or delays, then why isn't it a valid question? Who's to say that, on the days when they knew they were going to need a tech stop, they didn't reroute some passengers who would misconnect in EWR via a different routing out of TXL?

I mean...come on...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:14 pm

I think the usage off the 757 on her max range, shows that there is a place for a medium to long haul narrowbody for thin point to point routes that are not able to stand under a wide body.
I do not want to talk about an replacement 757 but a frame with rather more capabilities. The A321LR is a step in that direction, but I would expect to see someday a narrowbody with around 200 pax and a range of up to 5,000 nmi.
 
bgm
Posts: 2511
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:17 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 142):
All of the 757s that UA flies on transatlantic routes have nose to tail AVOD, power ports and a growing number have WiFi. The aircraft is configured for 16 fully flat seats in J class and 153 in Y+/Y pitched at 37/34/31 inches depending on if you are in an exit row, economy plus or regular economy.


"Ladies and Gentlemen, at the pilot's discretion, customers in all cabins may be entitled to receive a complimentary unscheduled landing at one of these fabulous locations:

Gander Int'l Airport, Newfoundland
Goose Bay, Labrador
Bangor, ME
Albany, NY

Customers will be treated to exquisite views of the tarmac as they nervously fret about missing their connections. The friendly and helpful ground staff at Newark will be delighted to assist customers upon arrival. We realize that you have a choice of airlines and we thank you for flying the friendly skies."
 
citationjet
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:18 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
This is how TXL-EWR looked in January:


Flights operated: 17
Diversions: 10 (JAN 3,4,5,10,11,12,15,18,19,24)

I noticed that some of the flights that don't divert have very long flight times. For Dec 8, the flight time was 9:40.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...5/history/20141208/0845Z/EDDT/KEWR
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: UA And The 757 Abuse

Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:29 pm

There is a reason for that Icelandair does not more than about 3,300 nmi on their year round 757-200WL use. I have not been aware of diversions because of a needed fuel stop regarding those flights.

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