behramjee
Topic Author
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:52 pm

Dear All,

Alitalia has now officially opened for sale new 3 weekly nonstop services between FCO and ICN + between MXP and PVG.

Both flights are to be operated using an A332. The schedules are as follows:

FCO-ICN-FCO effective 04JUN15

Days: 4/6/7

AZ 758 Dep FCO 1500 Arr ICN 0925+1I
AZ 759 Dep ICN 1405 – Arr FCO 1940

*Wouldn't it have made more sense to depart back from ICN at 1130 which means a 1700 arrival into FCO that can connect better with the evening domestic + EU flights as with a 1940 arrival into FCO, wont it be entirely dependent on O&D traffic?

********************************************************

MXP-PVG-MXP effective 01MAY15 onwards

Days: 3/5/7

AZ 794 Dep MXP 0610 Arr PVG 2330
AZ 795 Dep PVG 0050 Arr MXP 0720

*Horrible departure time out of MXP as it means no city, not even FCO can be connected to PVG + the arrival time into PVG means the same at that end too. AZ 795 schedule though is perfect. The 0610am dep from MXP means pax have to get out of bed at 0200, arrive at MXP by 0400am which the local Italian market is not used to at all so this indeed will be a tough sell.

Rgds
Behramjee
 
smbukas
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:17 am

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:29 pm

Together with the terrible schedules on MXP-PVG-MXP route, isn't it too small period to announce long-haul routes? 2,5 months advance sales for new long-haul route? That is really short.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:40 pm

Something doesn't look right with those flight times. Not only are they really odd, I don't believe that Alitalia would schedule only 1 hour 20 minutes of ground time in PVG. That is is too short. I don't think Alitalia schedules international turns under 2 hours.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:49 pm

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
AZ 794 Dep MXP 0610 Arr PVG 2330

This flight would be 100% local O&D, since it's way too early for any connections into MXP, and way too late at PVG to hand off any traffic to MU

CA has a much better eastbound schedule of MXP 1230 - PVG 0550 (also flown with 332)

Really ... best of luck to AZ. They'll need all of it.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5501
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting smbukas (Reply 1):
Together with the terrible schedules on MXP-PVG-MXP route, isn't it too small period to announce long-haul routes? 2,5 months advance sales for new long-haul route? That is really short.

I wonder if those are targeted (sold) mainly to tourist groups, like "pseudo-charters"? I flew Alitalia to Tokyo and Osaka and easily +90% were Japanese tourist groups heading to Rome. I was one of the very few connections at FCO.

Shanghainese tourists doing their Gucci shopping in Milan, and South Koreans (there is a large Christian community there and even the Pope visited Seoul recently) visiting the Vatican make sense  
 
User avatar
thekorean
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:05 pm

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:41 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 4):

If they only rely on those traffic they are doomed.

KE partnership maybe?
 
User avatar
shengzhurou
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:07 am

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:42 am

that reminds me of when 9W did SFO - PVG - india that arrives PVG late pm hours, end up failed the route, with bad timing. I am sure AZ needs to re-time the PVG arriving time
Sheng Zhu Rou
 
[email protected]
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:35 am

Indeed PVG timing is strange...
for business travelers you have at least the next day in Shanghai after a good night rest , but leaving MXP at 6 a.m. also takes partly a night away, but at least you won't have traffic jam to MXP  
EK has a similar arrival but for them it makes sense with the DXB HUB.

Assume is just because of slot shortage at PVG ?
Turnaround time in PVG, well anyhow you will have some delays as the night departure are seldom on time...
 
behramjee
Topic Author
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:55 am

Just to give everyone an idea of the market demand in 2014 it was as follows:

ICN-MXP...50K
ICN-FCO...145K

PVG-MXP...120K
PVG-FCO...100K

PEK-MXP...70K
PEK-FCO...110K

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):
This flight would be 100% local O&D, since it's way too early for any connections into MXP, and way too late at PVG to hand off any traffic to MU

CA has a much better eastbound schedule of MXP 1230 - PVG 0550 (also flown with 332)

Really ... best of luck to AZ. They'll need all of it.

yes plus this being a business savy route, the target market pax prefers a daily or at least 5 weekly schedule option which AZ is not able to provide.
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:28 pm

Eastbound daylight? That very seldom works when the flight spans several timezones... Usually on heavy travelled routes only, not the case here.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Alitalia Announces ICN + PVG

Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:41 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 8):

yes plus this being a business savy route, the target market pax prefers a daily or at least 5 weekly schedule option which AZ is not able to provide.

I'll cut them some slack during the spool-up period. CX is launching "business oriented" routes lately with only 4x weekly and letting them grow to daily.

Their only nonstop competition on MXP-PVG is CA, which isn't much competition at all (at 2-2-2 J)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos