747400sp
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BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:36 am

I remember back in the late 1980's, BA operated DC10s into LAX, but they also had 742s, so I wonder, did the the 10s go to LHR or Gatwick?
 
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vhtje
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:54 am

I believe the BA DC10s were all ex-B-CAL aircraft, so as such, they all flew from LGW.

Ref destinations, Google is your best friend:

British Airways DC10'S (by LGW" class="quote" target="_blank">LGW Jun 15 2000 in Civil Aviation)
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:58 am

BA operated DC-10s after the BCal purchase (BEA and later BA being a faithful L1011-1,-200,-500 customer...) and they operated the a/c on essentially the same routes BCal utilized them on: LAX, DFW, ATL, IAH, ACC, LOS (iirc also: ABJ, FNA, ROB but not 100% certain on those)

There were some B747-200s acquired with BCal too - G-HUGE being the one I flew LGW-DXB-HKG in 1989 - and I think they were acquired in combi config but changed to all-pax but my memory is a bit fuzzy on that detail

I'm pretty certain that the DC-10s 'never' touched the hallowed tarmac of LHR on a regular scheduled service: obviously opening myself up to being corrected by more expert knowledge than my own...

Then there was the short-lived 'interchange' service with NZ (TE at the time) but I have very few details of that  
 
superjeff
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:52 pm

NZ was not TE anymore when BA bought BR. Thy changed their name from TEAL to Air New Zealand when they bought DC 8's and started Flights to the U.S. In the very early 1960's.

And yes, the DC10's stayed on the ex BR routes after the merger into BA.
 
jfk777
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:10 pm

The BA DC-10's at LAX were the ex-British Caledonian flight from LGW to LAX which BR took over when Laker closed. Previously in the 1970's BA did lease on a per day or per flight basis Air New Zealand Dc-10 that flew from LHR to LAX but also other USA cities like Miami.
 
vv701
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:17 pm

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 2):
I'm pretty certain that the DC-10s 'never' touched the hallowed tarmac of LHR on a regular scheduled service: obviously opening myself up to being corrected by more expert knowledge than my own...

I believe you are correct.

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 2):
Then there was the short-lived 'interchange' service with NZ (TE at the time) but I have very few details of that

This lease arrangement started in May 1975. It was a four year agreement ending in April 1979. At that time BA's 747s were too large for the route. Unlike PA and TW, BA did not have a smaller twin aisle aircraft with sufficient range to operate non-stop to LAX.. So it had continued to operate its 707s to LAX. This resulted in a loss of business to both of its American competitors .

Conveniently the elapsed time for the LAX-LHR-LAX rotation was close to 24 hours and NZ had spare DC10 capacity. So the following arrangement was agreed:

A NZ DC-10 would operate AUK-HNL-LAX (TE001). At LAX it was wet leased by BA and operated LAX-LHR-LAX (BA598/99). At LAX it was returned to NZ to operate LAX-HNL-AUK (TE002). At LAX a second NZ DC-10 that had arrived from AUK was effectively leased to operate the next BA rotation to London.

By the start of the 1978 Summer Timetable when the agreement had just over a year to run traffic on BA's LAX service had grown to the point where they substituted a 747 on the weekday LAX service. So the detail of the NZ DC-10 interchange operation was significantly amended. The interchange at LAX continued to operate on Days 6 and 7. On weekdays BA used the two NZ DC-10s to operate five LHR-MIA-LHR and three LHR-YMX-LHR rotations until the return of the aircraft to NZ at the end of April 1979.

Throughout the four yearsl the DC-10s all flew in NZ's livery.

After buying BCal BA operated its own DC-10s for the first time . Initially they operated the former BCal routes out of LGW. These included an LGW-MAN-JFK-MAN-LGW (BA172/73) rotation which was soon suspended and a five-times weekly LGW-LAX-SAN-LAX-LGW (BA285/84) rotation.

For the 1989-90 Winter Season the full BA LGW DC-10 operations in addition to the LAX/SAN flights were daily rotations to ATL (BA227/26), DFW (BA229/28 and IAH (BA225/24), twice weekly rotations to BJL/FNA/ROB (BA083/82) and LUN/GBE (BA045/44) and a weekly rotation to ABV/LOS (BA079/78) and to LOS/ACC (also BA079/78).

By Summer 1994 the DC-10 flight from LGW to LAX/SAN had been suspended in favour of a twice daily LHR-LAX 747 rotation with no service by BA to SAN. The DC-10s were then being operated out of LGW on daily rotations to ATL, DFW and JFK, a three times weekly rotation to BDA, twice-weekly to ADE (with an add-on to SAH) and KAN (with add-on to ACC) and weekly to ACC (with add-on to KAN).
 
PA515
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:57 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 3):
NZ was not TE anymore when BA bought BR. Thy changed their name from TEAL to Air New Zealand when they bought DC 8's and started Flights to the U.S. In the very early 1960's.

TEAL (Tasman Empire Airways Ltd) changed to Air New Zealand in 1965, but the IATA code remained TE until the early 1980's, after the 1978 merger with NZNAC (New Zealand National Airways Corporation) which had the NZ IATA code.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
A NZ DC-10 would operate AUK-HNL-LAX (TE001). At LAX it was wet leased by BA and operated LAX-LHR-LAX (BA598/99). At LAX it was returned to NZ to operate LAX-HNL-AUK (TE002). At LAX a second NZ DC-10 that had arrived from AUK was effectively leased to operate the next BA rotation to London.

Arrrgh. AUK is Alakanuk, Alaska.

PA515

[Edited 2015-02-11 06:05:23]
 
vv701
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:47 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 6):

Thanks. Of course for 'AUK' read 'AKL'.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 3):
NZ was not TE anymore when BA bought BR

while this may be true - the interchange agreement was some years prior (my LAX-HNL-NAN-AKL milk-un in 1990 was coded TE, fwiw)

Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
This lease arrangement started in May 1975. It was a four year agreement ending in April 1979

thanks for the great info -
 
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Crosswind
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:35 pm

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 8):
Quoting superjeff (Reply 3):
NZ was not TE anymore when BA bought BR

while this may be true - the interchange agreement was some years prior (my LAX-HNL-NAN-AKL milk-un in 1990 was coded TE, fwiw)

As you said, Air New Zealand continued to use the "TE" designator (just on international flights) until 1990, so referring to the interchange as TE is quite correct!

Air NZ 1988 Timetable in German (Couldn't find one later before the change from TE to NZ)
http://airline-memorabilia.blogspot....air-new-zealand-1988-alemania.html

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
fokkerf28
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:45 pm

Don't forget, BA also flew the DC-10 to PHX . During the summer months quite the struggle.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:20 pm

What about the B-CAL 747's? I was on a BA flight from ORD to LHR in the summer of 1989 that was a Boeing 747-combi. I have searched for information about BA 747-combis and can never find anything.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:31 pm

Try airfleets, they had two ex MEA ones leased as G-BLVE/F. At end of lease they were replaced by three new build B747-236B Combis, G-BDXM/N/P. Google "airfleets G-xxxx" or "planespotters.net G-xxxx" for full history.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 11):
What about the B-CAL 747's? I was on a BA flight from ORD to LHR in the summer of 1989 that was a Boeing 747-combi. I have searched for information about BA 747-combis and can never find anything.

Did it actually operate as a Combi? BA had several 747s with side cargo doors, both their own new builds and ex-B.Cal machines, but I think by the late 1980s none of them was actually operating in a Combi configuration.

The RR-powered -236Ms were G-BDXM/N/P

The ex-B.Cal aircraft were G-CITB and G-HUGE, but they didn't stay too long after the takeover due to their GE engines.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
TWAL1011
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 13):
Did it actually operate as a Combi? BA had several 747s with side cargo doors, both their own new builds and ex-B.Cal machines, but I think by the late 1980s none of them was actually operating in a Combi configuration.

It was definitely in a combi passenger configuration. I would never have noticed the second cargo door as a young teen. The economy cabin was very small. I recall asking the cabin crew why it was so small and they pointed out the -combi configuration. I had never heard of this before.

[Edited 2015-02-11 13:12:54]
 
TWAL1011
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 12):
Try airfleets, they had two ex MEA ones leased as G-BLVE/F. At end of lease they were replaced by three new build B747-236B Combis, G-BDXM/N/P. Google "airfleets G-xxxx" or "planespotters.net G-xxxx" for full history.

Thanks for the registrations. As soon as I saw the fleet list, I knew which aircraft it was. G-BDXN. I clearly remember seeing the "Stoke on Trent" titles on the Landor livery at gate B16. BA was departing from United terminal 1 - gate B16 at that time.

Also remember landing the next morning at LHR. It was my first time at Heathrow and I was amazed at all the TWA 747's and then pulling up to Terminal 4 and seeing all the BA L-1011s.

[Edited 2015-02-11 13:11:01]
 
PA515
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 9):
As you said, Air New Zealand continued to use the "TE" designator (just on international flights) until 1990, so referring to the interchange as TE is quite correct!

Agree. My post saying early 1980's was incorrect. Air NZ International was TE until 27 Oct 1990.

PA515
 
afcjets
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
By Summer 1994 the DC-10 flight from LGW to LAX/SAN had been suspended in favour of a twice daily LHR-LAX 747 rotation with no service by BA to SAN.
Quoting fokkerf28 (Reply 10):
Don't forget, BA also flew the DC-10 to PHX

Didn't BA fly SAN-PHX-LGW at one point?
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:15 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 3):
NZ was not TE anymore when BA bought BR. Thy changed their name from TEAL to Air New Zealand when they bought DC 8's and started Flights to the U.S. In the very early 1960's.

Air New Zealand's service to HNL and LAX started in 1965, not the very early 1960s. They had to wait until the new AKL airport opened since 4-engine jets (except BOAC Comet 4s) couldn't use the old airport.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting AFCJETS (Reply 17):
Didn't BA fly SAN-PHX-LGW at one point?

They did. They flew it in place of a 762 service (leased from US flown in BA colours) they used to begin the route. Both got their own flight respective flight when it switched to the LHR on the 777 as more of them made it into the fleet in the late 1990s
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vv701
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:43 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 12):
they were replaced by three new build B747-236B Combis, G-BDXM/N/P.
Quoting Crosswind (Reply 13):
Did it actually operate as a Combi?

No and yes! 'XM was ordered as a Combi and was delivered with a strengthened main cabin floor. However I am pretty certain that it was delivered in an all-passenger configuration and so served until after its retirement from the BA fleet..

On the other hand I believe 'XN was delivered as a combi configured for 216 passengers (SL18 / J88 / M110) plus up to 40 tonnes of freight. It was converted to an all-passenger configuration during 1991. The same applies to 'XP that was converted in May of the same year, 1991.

All three of the above aircraft had a registered Maximum Take Off Weight of 377,842 kg compared to the lower 371,940 kg of the rest of BA's 747 236B that did not have the strengthened cabin floor. The strengthened floor (and registered MTOW) remained for the life of these three aircraft on the British register. When the three were retired by BA in 2001 they were converted to pure freighters.
 
san747
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RE: BA's DC10s Routes To LAX?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 19):
They did. They flew it in place of a 762 service (leased from US flown in BA colours) they used to begin the route. Both got their own flight respective flight when it switched to the LHR on the 777 as more of them made it into the fleet in the late 1990s
Quoting VV701 (Reply 5):
By Summer 1994 the DC-10 flight from LGW to LAX/SAN had been suspended in favour of a twice daily LHR-LAX 747 rotation with no service by BA to SAN.

BA has a somewhat complicated history at SAN. Originally BCal flew LGW-LAX-SAN with 747-200s starting around 1988. When BA acquired BCal, they continued that route until, as VV701 explains above, they discontinued SAN completely around 1993/4. To my knowledge, BA never flew the US 767-200 in their colors to SAN (I thought it operated PIT/CLT-LON flights only?).

BA returned to SAN in 1996 with a LGW-PHX-SAN routing on DC-10 equipment. On March 29, 1998, the first scheduled 747-400 was inaugurated on the route, lasting until roughly summer 2000, when the route shifted to a nonstop LGW-SAN on the 777-200 as BA2275.

In 2003, the flight was shifted to LHR, remaining on 777 equipment until finally BA pulled out on October 26, 2003, citing the downturn in air travel after 9/11 and the Iraq War. In 2010, when the EU approved the AA/BA/IB alliance/merger, and along with the financial incentives offered by the SDCRAA, they announced resumption of the LHR-SAN flight, beginning June 1, 2011, with the ever reliable 777-200.

The flight remains today, flying daily as BA272/3. The route seems to be stronger than ever, and now even sees not-infrequent 777-300ER substitutions, usually about once per month or so.
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