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CYQL
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Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:31 am

http://www.jetlines.ca/wp-content/up...a-Route-Map-w-names-Feb-2015-1.png

Nice of them to let the competition what their plans are.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...carriers-strategy/article22904425/

Looks like some problems on the financial side of things.

I think the odds of winning Lotto 6/49 are better than these guys getting off the ground!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:38 am

Pretty large route map, that would require alot of planes and along time. This has gotta be long term, i wonder what the launch routes would be?
 
32andBelow
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:41 am

Lol they are going to do that with 16 airplanes? I am assuming some of those are suppose to be seasonal? ANC, Hawaii, would come to mind.
 
kdonohue
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:42 am

CYQL, I think the competition laughed when they saw this. Not a realistic route network from the get go. Looks like someone looked at a map and said I want to go here and here and here.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:44 am

Should also add they skip basically every major city in the US, and will need ETOPs certification.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:45 am

Umm.. why would you release a route network so early on?

The competition will be ready for them as soon as they launch a new route. Strange strategy.
 
A346Dude
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:52 am

Finally, Flin Flon (population 5,592) gets the jet service it deserves!

There's a couple new routes here that I think could work, but overall this airline is a joke.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:02 am

YVR-MIA? Please, this has some routes that may work, but most of this is just fantasy. With just 16 aircraft these routes must be seasonal (as was mentioned above) or run less than daily. Does Canada have enough traffic to warrant another domestic carrier?
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:02 pm

No service from YYC whatsoever.....ohh wait, that must be in their long term plans....  spin 

[Edited 2015-02-11 06:58:25]
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c172akula
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 8):
No service from YYC whatsoever.....weird.....

I think they've always said they were going to avoid hubs for the competition (yet they base in YVR?).

They're never going to get off the ground, the first plan to get the capital has fallen apart and the company they were going to do it with is now suing them for something like $500,000 due to it.
 
yhu
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:03 pm

Isn't a 737-7 a bit big for Flin Flon service? Regardless of fares?
 
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Quantos
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:06 pm

CYFO, really? Is that really needed?

Anyway, wikipedia page says that deliveries of 737MAX would start 2021, so that's at least six years with only two leased planes. Almost none of the routes on this map would be served for a good while.

[Edited 2015-02-11 07:14:19]
Quantos,

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longhauler
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 6):
Finally, Flin Flon (population 5,592) gets the jet service it deserves!

I used to fly B737s there at CP from YWG. It was the middle day of a three day cycle. YWG-YTH-YFO-YWG-YQD-YFO-YWG.

At it's height, I never saw more than 15 people get on or off at YFO.

This map looks like something a 10 year old airline enthusiast drew!
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exfss
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:32 pm

Yes sure, people from Montreal wishing to go to Miami will have to fly to Winnipeg first... What a joke.
It sure wont be very popular in Quebec province.
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Noise
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:11 pm

Sorry, but I doubt this airline will get off the ground.
 
a380787
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:20 pm

That's quite a gamble ... using Hamilton to straddle both BUF and YYZ

But I agree some domestic competition is much needed .... AC and WS are too happy with their duopoly price gouging.
 
rampbro
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:39 pm

YYJ to ONT.....wat?

So the big west coast plan is to have 3 different ops within a 100km radius....wat?

And what on earth is BWI doing on this map?

It looks like someone worked on the western Canada routes for about 10 minutes, threw a bunch of other crap on there, and then released it.
 
CalTex
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:41 pm

Fancy route map, barely any airplanes, no capital... where have I heard that before?   

I'll be very interested to see how they do in Hawaii (they should ask G4 about that one), Ontario (nobody wants to fly there), Mesa (similar), and Las Vegas from both Vancouver and Abbotsford.
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:38 pm

No YQL ( with YXH & GTF area spill over) service on their Route Map, guess that poorly served market & catchment area will continue to be just that.


..Oh wait, no capital?! It'll be interesting how this upstart....starts. (Greyhound, Roots, Jetsgo..... *cough cough*)
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robsaw
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:56 pm

The whole things looks like a play to generate investment capital to pay a few high salaries for a couple of years until the whole thing implodes. The only reason for releasing the route-map would be to obfuscate the real plans by putting in stuff that only makes the competition laugh.
 
txkf2010
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:29 am

Be interesting to see what the people over at Jet Naked have in store considering they are planning on basing ops at YYC...
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:33 am

WOW! YVR-SAN! Hopefully this one comes to fruition. I always thought that WS would come first, but now I am wholeheartedly rooting for these guys!
 
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SANFan
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 21):
WOW! YVR-SAN!

   You just beat me to it, 29er'!

Even if nothing else happens with this experiment, if we can get a YVR-SAN flight out of it, I call it a success!   (It's nice that at least someone notices this great gapping hole on the trans-border route map!)

bb
 
727LOVER
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 5):
Umm.. why would you release a route network so early on?

I could have sworn B6 did this too.


Woo-Hoo...another airline @ PIE!!!
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bjorn14
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:46 am

Are they really doing Hawai'i from Victoria?
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:18 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 24):
Are they really doing Hawai'i from Victoria?

There's the word "Anticipated" at the top of the routes map, so just wait and see whether they get ETOPS approval or not. If they do, it doesn't mean there'll necessarily be daily flights year round. I believe there are plans to lengthen a bit YYJ main runway.
 
a380787
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:27 pm

Phoenix Mesa is marginally okay, but Ontario and Hamilton ? Yikes

This is like "skybus Canada" deja Vu
 
threepoint
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:48 pm

How many of you actually believe this is the company's honest intention? It would appear that many of you do.

There's this bridge, see, and it's for sale. Who's in?
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rampbro
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 25):
I believe there are plans to lengthen a bit YYJ main runway.

We already have direct Hawai'i flights from YYJ, the runway lengthening relates to our quest for an LHR flight IIRC.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 21):

I was waiting for the YVR-SAN lobby to chime in. By the looks of it, so is Jetlines!
 
airtrantpa
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:20 pm

I will put money on tbe the PIE service will be seasonal and only a few days a week like sunwing and what has been in the last witj canjet air transat, canada3000 (I miss seeing a330s at PIE)
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chrisp390
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:53 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 28):

What is the likelihood of LHR service? Wouldn't it be a very long thin route with few business pax?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:27 am

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 18):
No YQL ( with YXH & GTF area spill over) service on their Route Map, guess that poorly served market & catchment area will continue to be just that

Yup, YVR-RNO? That makes ZERO sense! YQL-YYC & YQL-SLC make more sense...
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32andBelow
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
Yup, YVR-RNO? That makes ZERO sense! YQL-YYC & YQL-SLC make more sense...

reno/TAHOE Could work in the winter with a few freq.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:40 am

YYF-YEG? Seriously?


...................................
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:42 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 30):
What is the likelihood of LHR service? Wouldn't it be a very long thin route with few business pax?

According to YYJ masterplan, it is estimated that the airport could support 15000 passengers annually with seasonal service. They are even hoping to have flights to FRA. Condor could do the job there.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:13 am

First of all I want this airline to do well as the fares in this country are grossly inflated. They will be stimulating the market of persons who rarely fly like FR have done with great success rather than just rely on people to switch from the incumbents and I really believe there is a market in Canada if done correctly. However, certainly some eyebrow raisers here and not too sure if serious or not - plus they dont know where Fort St John is which never inspires confidence...

Where they are competing with Jazz, they will be upgrading more and more to Q400's, so is a 25 year old 737 any worse than a Q400? Not sure Canadians are too bothered if the engines are round with fans inside or have whirly bits. YVR and Canada is general is not scared of props like the US, a very large percentage of movements at YVR are props between Jazz, Encore, Pasco, CMA, Hawkair, Horizon plus the hos and floatplanes.

Some comments for YVR.

YPR - biggest loser will be Hawkair. LNG & mining is booming in the area, the Kitsault mine will be reopening soon, the port is booming and there is a lot going on up there. Im sure however the locals will continue to support Hawkair and they will have some corporate contracts sown up. Business visitors or just *A / Aeroplan people like me will stick to AC. Not a lot of VFR really, so I guess they are looking at workers from the lower mainland looking for a cheap fare.

YXS - WS did downgrade from the 737 to Q400 so not a surprise to see this one. 8P also recently entered the market with a YYJ run on the Saab. If you can get a through fare to YEG it may be worthwhile if it saves $2-300, but WS & AC will not sit still.

YXJ - stuff going on up there natural resources wise, similar demographic to YPR but no where near as big scale and no Hawkair. Encore were a recent entry. Half the movements are a CMA B1900, which says its a 19 seater market...

YYF - again not a surprise competing against an old Jazz DH3 and avoiding WS in the Okanagan. Nice alternate to YLW and nicer area IMO, though we are not talking about a large distance apart. Maybe work, but the 737 seems an awful lot of metal outside of August.

YXE, YQR & YWG - a step in the right direction if they can really have the FR / NK effect on the Canadian market. On the SK routes they win over some frequent flyers if they really detest the CR2 as much as most a.netters seem too...

ANC - sure summer seasonal, but pretty tough to go up against Rouge. AS didnt last long when they tried previously.

OAK - understandable alternate to SFO and avoiding Rouge, WS & UA. Probably work if fares are low enough to compensate the aggravation of getting where you want to go for touristy stuff.

ONT - makes sense to avoid the competition on LAX and is a metro area large enough worth serving. Brave choice but BUR, SNA & LGB would get my vote in that order ahead of ONT. Not to forget G4 down the road at BLI who currently serve penny pinching transborder goers.

SAN - always seems to make sense, yet no one does it - must be a reason. Pretty sure we will see Rouge pop up on the route should it go ahead. I would certainly love to use this route.

LAS - sure, cant go wrong with that if Rouge and WS will let you. AS & US pulled out. Then theres G4 again.

AZA - maybe... but really tough competition again plus G4 at BLI. This is not Vegas.

SJD - sure on paper, but can they compete with the all inclusive packages? I think I would rather pay one price and eat and drink as much as I want, way better value for money than saving $200 on an air fare and have to go to several websites to do it all myself. Or maybe they will offer packages too? Have to say I would be very wary until they had a few solid years under their belts.

As to YYJ, I can see linking the capitals as a bright idea on paper, but the prime market travelling between the pairs is probably the last to give up the J seats, or at least Star benefits on AC. Hawaii should work as long as WS will let them and they gets their shiny new MAX's with ETOPS.

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 30):
What is the likelihood of LHR service? Wouldn't it be a very long thin route with few business pax?

I could see a TS to LGW once a week work in summer, maybe with a stop in YYC, MAN or GLA to fill her up as they often do.
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ACDC8
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:38 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
YYF - again not a surprise competing against an old Jazz DH3 and avoiding WS in the Okanagan. Nice alternate to YLW and nicer area IMO, though we are not talking about a large distance apart. Maybe work, but the 737 seems an awful lot of metal outside of August.

The price would have to be extremely discounted for anyone on the north side of the bridge to consider the trek down to Penticton for a flight. Other than YVR, how many people are willing to go that far out of the way to hit YEG, even for a cnx flight to Flin Flon? YYF to YYC I could see, but that whole route structure just doesn't fit right.
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YVRLTN
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 36):
The price would have to be extremely discounted for anyone on the north side of the bridge to consider the trek down to Penticton for a fligh

I guess for people visiting the resorts on the south end of Okanagan Lake from YVR if fares are cheap. Personally I dislike Kelowna, but Summerland, Peachland and Penticton are quite nice. If the fare was say $100 return I would certainly think about a long weekend in Penticton.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 36):
Other than YVR, how many people are willing to go that far out of the way to hit YEG,

From the map it looked like a YVR - YXS - YEG - YMM routing. Unless they are separate aircraft. It can easily cost $500 return to YEG and now you get extra bag fees on top of that too so its not like you are paying for a high end product, if it was half that and I had the time I would think about a stop in YXS to get to YEG.
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ACDC8
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:19 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 37):
I guess for people visiting the resorts on the south end of Okanagan Lake from YVR if fares are cheap. Personally I dislike Kelowna, but Summerland, Peachland and Penticton are quite nice. If the fare was say $100 return I would certainly think about a long weekend in Penticton.

Yeah, I get that. But they can't just rely on people wanting to visit the OK Valley and just some originating pax south of the bridge to make any sense out of it.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 37):
From the map it looked like a YVR - YXS - YEG - YMM routing. Unless they are separate aircraft. It can easily cost $500 return to YEG and now you get extra bag fees on top of that too so its not like you are paying for a high end product, if it was half that and I had the time I would think about a stop in YXS to get to YEG.

Looks more like YVR-YYF-YEG to me.
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Viscount724
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
ONT - makes sense to avoid the competition on LAX and is a metro area large enough worth serving

AC once tried YYZ-ONT. It was unsuccessful and was dropped fairly quickly.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
ONT - makes sense to avoid the competition on LAX and is a metro area large enough worth serving.

I can see a possibility for ONT-YVR to work but anything else, I doubt it.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 28):
I was waiting for the YVR-SAN lobby to chime in. By the looks of it, so is Jetlines!

I'm glad you didn't have to wait too long!  
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
SAN - always seems to make sense, yet no one does it - must be a reason.


   But whatever that reason is (along with exactly why AC left the route in the first place a couple of years ago) continues to allude a lot of people.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
Pretty sure we will see Rouge pop up on the route should it go ahead. I would certainly love to use this route.

I have AC (of any flavor) at the bottom of the list of possible entrants. I personally have WN at the top of my list, making YVR-SAN one of their first trans-border routes...

I keep wondering if this tickle by Jetlines might be enough to "encourage" a real airline to start service between the 2 west coast markets?

bb
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 40):
I personally have WN at the top of my list, making YVR-SAN one of their first trans-border routes...

Maybe. I personally see AS as the top contender, followed by WS. I think even more far fetched would be NK.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 40):
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
SAN - always seems to make sense, yet no one does it - must be a reason.


But whatever that reason is (along with exactly why AC left the route in the first place a couple of years ago) continues to allude a lot of people.

I think you mean "elude". The lack of high-yield business traffic and the seasonal nature of the rest of the traffic were probably significant reasons.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
I think you mean "elude".

Yes, thanks for catching that.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
The lack of high-yield business traffic and the seasonal nature of the rest of the traffic were probably significant reasons

I have no idea about the yields or business-type make-up on the flight, or even the loads, but I'm pretty sure the flight was not seasonal at all.

And I can't imagine that SAN-YVR would be significantly different than YVR-SNA/PSP/LAS/PHX, all with service.

bb
 
Viscount724
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 43):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
The lack of high-yield business traffic and the seasonal nature of the rest of the traffic were probably significant reasons

I have no idea about the yields or business-type make-up on the flight, or even the loads, but I'm pretty sure the flight was not seasonal at all.

I was referring to Canada-SAN traffic being seasonal, not necessarily the flights. Can't compare SAN with LAS which has significant year-round leisure demand for obvious reasons. I'm quite sure SNA had significantly more business traffic than SAN.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting threepoint (Reply 27):
How many of you actually believe this is the company's honest intention? It would appear that many of you do.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is a part of the business plan shopped to potential investors, and will have very little resemblance to reality, like many business plans.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 35):
Not sure Canadians are too bothered if the engines are round with fans inside or have whirly bits.

Canadians are too picky! South of the border, if it flies and saves a penny over the competition, shape of the engines is irrelevant! They might be square for all we care.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 45):
Canadians are too picky! South of the border, if it flies and saves a penny over the competition, shape of the engines is irrelevant! They might be square for all we care.

It depends on who's name is on the side of an aircraft. If its a Dash 8 and it says Air Canada on the fuselage, then its an old piece of crap. If it's WestJet's name on the side, well then its a cutting edge piece of technology that is revolutionizing Canadian skies.  
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brilondon
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:24 pm

I don't see how they will be competing and making money in the Canadian market that just is not big enough to support another carrier in the country. The concentration and actually flying to YMM is really a crap shoot since the collapse of the crude prices has basically killed any expansion of the oil sands projects and even now the Alberta economy is in deep dodo. To have this kind of wish list which is not very realistic in a profit standpoint. I hope that they have been taking history lessons and learning from the failures of the likes of Canadian, Canada3000, Jetsgo, and several other carriers that tried to start serving the secondary Canadian markets.
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q120
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 6):

Finally, Flin Flon (population 5,592) gets the jet service it deserves!

There's a couple new routes here that I think could work, but overall this airline is a joke.


I laughed out loud at this, good thing I have an office.
I totally agree.
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ACDC8
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RE: Anticipated Canada Jetlines Route Network

Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 47):
The concentration and actually flying to YMM is really a crap shoot since the collapse of the crude prices has basically killed any expansion of the oil sands projects and even now the Alberta economy is in deep dodo.

I love statements like this ... its almost as if people think the oilsands are done for. Its a bump, things will be back to its normal self in due time. As for expansions, there are still some big ones going ahead.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut

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