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drgmobile
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AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:59 pm

Air Canada today posts what it says is the best adjusted net income in the company's 77-year history for the full year of 2014 -- a year in which the carrier saw significant growth, much of it international. The full results can be found here:

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=854

I'm curious about a reference to the Embraer 190s leaving the fleet this year. I recall seeing news that Airbus A320s were being leased for the short term before the Boeing 737s arrive, but I believe this is the first reference publicly to the specific departure of 190s, no?

"...In 2015, an overlap of the aircraft brought into the fleet to replace the exiting Embraer 190 aircraft is forecasted to account for approximately 30 per cent of the projected domestic capacity growth in 2015. This overlap is designed to better match capacity with expected 2015 summer season demand."
 
commavia
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Thread starter):
I'm curious about a reference to the Embraer 190s leaving the fleet this year. I recall seeing news that Airbus A320s were being leased for the short term before the Boeing 737s arrive, but I believe this is the first reference publicly to the specific departure of 190s, no?

"...In 2015, an overlap of the aircraft brought into the fleet to replace the exiting Embraer 190 aircraft is forecasted to account for approximately 30 per cent of the projected domestic capacity growth in 2015. This overlap is designed to better match capacity with expected 2015 summer season demand."

Given a newly-ratified pilot contract, is a possible play for some cheap, second-hand 190s from AA at all possible?
 
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longhauler
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:08 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):

Given a newly-ratified pilot contract, is a possible play for some cheap, second-hand 190s from AA at all possible?

AC decided a few years ago to reduce the E190 fleet from 45 to 25. The actual date the first ship leaves keeps changing as capacity demand changes. The latest has the first leaving this autumn.

So no, I wouldn't think AC would need more E190s from AA.
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ytz
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Sad. The 190s were comfortable from a pax pov.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Thread starter):
I'm curious about a reference to the Embraer 190s leaving the fleet this year. I recall seeing news that Airbus A320s were being leased for the short term before the Boeing 737s arrive, but I believe this is the first reference publicly to the specific departure of 190s, no?

The 190s leaving the fleet has been talked about many times. As part of the Max order 20 EMBs are being sold?? to Boeing.
 
commavia
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
AC decided a few years ago to reduce the E190 fleet from 45 to 25. The actual date the first ship leaves keeps changing as capacity demand changes. The latest has the first leaving this autumn.

So no, I wouldn't think AC would need more E190s from AA.

Sorry - I should have been more clear about what I meant - I was meaning is there a possibility for AA to buy these second-hand 190s from Air Canada?
 
a380787
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:36 pm

they can sell them to jetBlue ... seems that B6 is quite happy having the E90 develop new routes
 
flyby519
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):

they can sell them to jetBlue ... seems that B6 is quite happy having the E90 develop new routes


Doubtful. B6 has a lot of deferred/cancelled/sold orders. Don't forget the initial B6 order was for 100 firm plus 100 options. 60 frames at B6 will probably be the high water mark from here on out.

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):

This is very possible in my opinion. AA only has about 20 of them which is too few for an airline that size. They need to either dump the E190 or get more of them.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:19 pm

I've heard rumors - months ago, now - that UA was considering getting the used AC E190s from Boeing. I suspect they wanted a greater number of planes, though.

In any case, I do know a few mainline UA pilots who would look forward to flying them.
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INFINITI329
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
they can sell them to jetBlue ... seems that B6 is quite happy having the E90 develop new routes

Both B6 and AC were the very first customers for the E190, so they both have some of the oldest E190s in the world. B6 has already deferred all their remaining orders to the the E2 era so they wouldn't want take on any birds as old as theirs.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 8):
've heard rumors - months ago, now - that UA was considering getting the used AC E190s from Boeing. I suspect they wanted a greater number of planes, though.

I hope this isnt true as Im still hoping for a C-series order
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 8):
In any case, I do know a few mainline UA pilots who would look forward to flying them.

Without an AFA contract, could UA FAs even fly an E190 (or any other new fleet type)? Is it possible that UA can't make any fleet addition announcements without an agreement with AFA?

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13039...s-back.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

AFA contract talks start up again on the 16th in Houston. Interesting tidbit from the above article regarding the recently-fired 13 FAs that refused the fly the HKG trip last year. The article suggests that AFA could make reinstatement of the fired FAs as a condition of a new contract.

"the union could seek to make reinstatement a condition of a new contract. Settling grievances as part of contract negotiations is a common practice."
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Thread starter):
Air Canada today posts what it says is the best adjusted net income in the company's 77-year history for the full year of 2014 -- a year in which the carrier saw significant growth, much of it international.


The operating margin is growing, but still only 6.1%. Barely into the investment grade range. While AC will benefit from lower oil prices in 2015, so will all airlines which will put downward pressure on yields as airlines have more leeway to lower prices.

Spirit recently released their 2014 results which show almost a 20% operating margin (vs. the 6.1% for AC). While AC may never be able to reach this, it does suggest that there is room for improvement. As an investor, you're still far better putting your $ into higher margin stocks, such as Spirit.



[Edited 2015-02-11 10:36:29]
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N1120A
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:25 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 10):
Without an AFA contract, could UA FAs even fly an E190 (or any other new fleet type)? Is it possible that UA can't make any fleet addition announcements without an agreement with AFA?

They could probably add more fleet types, but would have to split the flying equally between FA groups. That would be tough with a small sub-fleet. I'd imagine the solution, until they have a merger FA contract, would be to place the 190s on the CO side and move 739s from CO to UA. Still unlikely to happen.
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aerohottie
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:17 pm

What really surprised me was AC's appalling aircraft utilisation of 9.9hrs per aircraft per day.
That utilisation is atrocious... AC seriously have a scheduling issue, and in turn a ROI issue...
What?
 
queb
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:56 pm

 
N1120A
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 13):
What really surprised me was AC's appalling aircraft utilisation of 9.9hrs per aircraft per day.
That utilisation is atrocious... AC seriously have a scheduling issue, and in turn a ROI issue...

How do you jive that with other North American carriers?
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TWA772LR
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:54 am

Slightly OT, UA is reportedly looking at the 190, perhaps AC can cit them a good deal?
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cabochris
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:51 am

190s are going to be taken in by Boeing, and then leased out to the Canada Jetlines start-up.
 
bjorn14
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 7):
60 frames at B6 will probably be the high water mark from here on out.

Unless the E2 knocks it out of the park for them. B6 might order more.
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threepoint
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RE: AC Posts Record Full Year, EMB 190s Leaving?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 11):
The operating margin is growing, but still only 6.1%. Barely into the investment grade range...As an investor, you're still far better putting your $ into higher margin stocks, such as Spirit.

Doesn't matter how the company performs, there are those who will always douse with cold water. If AC is flirting with CCAA: it's a national embarrassment. When AC makes money hand over fist: it's barely adequate and one should still invest elsewhere. Is your money where your mouth is? I'm not a huge AC fan as a passenger, but I've tripled my own money in AC shares since disregarding unfounded pessimism and researching actual fundamentals. I'd surmise the complaints would cease if you'd realized similar gains?

Quoting cabochris (Reply 17):
190s are going to be taken in by Boeing, and then leased out to the Canada Jetlines start-up.

Is this confirmed, or speculative at this stage? If accurate, the list of potential successful routes becomes very interesting indeed.
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