321neoLR
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IAG and Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:00 am

So with Willie Walsh trying to convince the Irish government to sell, what do people here think the real plans will be?

Sorry for restarting this thread, the previous one was archived.

I hope this possible purchase will be good for Aer lingus, but I would be interested in wider opinions.

Rgds.
 
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Miami
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IAG and Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:35 am

Aer Lingus said "New US destinations would be added to its network if the (IAG) takeover succeeds"


http://www.independent.ie/business/i...positive-opportunity-30990913.html
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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Miami
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IAG and Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:38 am

Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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vhqpa
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:04 am

With its US pre clearance facilities should the deal go through Dublin would make an attractive hub for connecting the regions to North America.
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ClassicLover
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:58 am

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
So with Willie Walsh trying to convince the Irish government to sell, what do people here think the real plans will be?

Well as has been stated by IAG...

1. Use EI for passengers connecting from the UK regions to the USA, taking advantage of US Pre-Clearance at DUB and SNN

2. Expand the long haul fleet - EI plan 1 new aircraft per year, IAG can see 1 extra per year above that

3. Job losses will be in Head Office roles that are duplicated elsewhere in IAG

4. Expansion of 500 jobs over 5 years - they say each new long haul aircraft generates around 100 jobs

5. EI will rejoin the oneworld Alliance

6. EI will join the transatlantic joint venture with IB, AA, BA and AY

7. Guarantees to keep the EI LHR slots used by EI for 5 years and additional guarantees to keep the ORK and SNN routes to LHR

8. More destinations in the USA

9. IAG will offer advantages in procurement - it has been stated it's not millions, it's tens of millions in savings

10. EI will have access to AA's extensive corporate accounts, network and sales force on the American side as a partner

All signs point to it being a great thing for Aer Lingus.

We will just have to wait and see over the next few months what will happen.

In the meantime, EI are continuing to do what they had planned to do. The first A330 with the new lie-flat Business Class cabin is in Ireland (the fleet will be completed by the end of March), there is a voluntary redundancy scheme underway as part of the CORE cost reduction programme, and generally things are progressing.

Today there has been news from the EI board saying that the deal makes compelling commercial logic - which we of course know on here.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
finnishway
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:31 am

As I said before, I don't think this bid will go through just yet. Probably in the future. There seems to be too much confusion and not unanimous opinion. It is always hard to make this kind of decisions when there are multiple owners and especially government included.

Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
Job losses will be in Head Office roles that are duplicated elsewhere in IAG

That will be one of the main problems for the government. I just don't think that there would be only job losses in the head office roles. I think it will affect the whole airline.

Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
Guarantees to keep the EI LHR slots used by EI for 5 years and additional guarantees to keep the ORK and SNN routes to LHR

That is the next thing. If that promise keeps, definitely after 5 years many of those slots would go for BA expansion in other routes.

I personally hope this bid don't go through, but I am probably wrong.

If there would be another runway promised to LHR, I think this situation would be different.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:36 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
That will be one of the main problems for the government. I just don't think that there would be only job losses in the head office roles. I think it will affect the whole airline.

It won't though - Aer Lingus has already been through efficiency programmes over the last 5 years under the current CEO. The airline is profitable because of this. The current voluntary redundancy programme which is expected to cut around 150 people is to remove high paid people and to replace them with new employees under current market rates.

Aer Lingus is no Iberia, which was heavily loss making at the time of the merger with BA to create IAG.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
That is the next thing. If that promise keeps, definitely after 5 years many of those slots would go for BA expansion in other routes.

Also not going to happen. It was stated that something like 70 odd percent of BA's slots at LHR are used for short haul. They have plenty of scope to switch these to long haul using their own slots if that was required.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
If there would be another runway promised to LHR, I think this situation would be different.

Quite possibly, but there's not. Even if it was approved, it will be years away, and when and if it does happen, all the new slots won't go automatically to BA. There are many other airlines that will also receive new slots.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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OA260
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:51 am

All we can do is wait. The government will decide shortly and it will be that which makes or breaks the deal unless another way is found in the event of a rejection. If this deal does not go through then it will be a terrible mistake and Aer Lingus will have given up a huge opportunity to expand and become part of a major venture. Its always sad when governments and politics gets in the way of a sensible decision especially in Ireland where its still very old school.

Aer Lingus is actually going to be a major benefit to the IAG group as its profitable,well recognised brand and opens up many possibilities for expansion and using DUB to its real potential.
 
kaitak
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:08 am

It's been a very frustrating time for those of us who want to see EI succeed; the airline WILL benefit. IAG is not just going to buy EI, nick its slots and run it down; the amount of money it is going to pay for EI is not small and while some have said that it's equivalent to the value of the slots, EI has a value to IAG over and above this. It's disappointing that those in Irish politics can't see that.

Classiclover's points are absolutely correct; EI can grow and IAG can help it grow, over and beyond what it could do without that support. DUB is geographically very well placed to be a hub for UK travel to the US and the fact that the biggest obstacle to this comes from within Ireland is just history repeating itself; we have another generation of visionless third raters trying to obstruct this potential purely for political reasons. Today, we have the Labour party (the junior partner in the current Irish coalition government) seeking to hold this decision back until the next Irish election ... again just for political reasons.

A peripheral island economy, particularly one with the challenges Ireland now faces, can't afford this type of insular, backward looking thinking. To let this chance slip away would be a huge setback for Aer Lingus, particularly when you consider that FR is encroaching ever more onto its turf, moving away from secondary airports and adding main airports like FCO, AMS, BRU and others; that process is going to continue; EI needs backing if it's to face this challenge. By trying to obstruct its potential, Irish politicians are playing into the hands of Ryanair.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:20 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 8):
To let this chance slip away would be a huge setback for Aer Lingus, particularly when you consider that FR is encroaching ever more onto its turf, moving away from secondary airports and adding main airports like FCO, AMS, BRU and others; that process is going to continue; EI needs backing if it's to face this challenge.

I agree with you. I particularly liked the Aer Lingus statement from the board that said the sale of EI to IAG supports the Irish Government's two airline policy. It is an interesting thing that a country as small as Ireland has two successful major airlines. It says a lot about what Irish entrepreneurship can do!

The fact IAG has taken the Irish political worries very seriously - addressed them - and been honest about their intentions is quite impressive.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
Andy33
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:38 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
That is the next thing. If that promise keeps, definitely after 5 years many of those slots would go for BA expansion in other routes.

In order to use these slots to expand on other routes from LHR, they will need significantly more planes than BA currently have on order. One Aer Lingus A32S can do 4 or 5 round trips a day between London and Dublin. To use these 4 or 5 slot pairs on long haul out of Heathrow you'd need 3 - 5 long haul aircraft because of the greater distances,slower turnrounds, and running into curfews or commercially useless arrival/departure times.
The other point is that BA currently operates on LHR-DUB in its own right too with its own slots and A32S planes. If they do want to take slots away for long haul expansion using these slots would break no promises and it would take quite some expansion to use all these slots up.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:28 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 10):
In order to use these slots to expand on other routes from LHR, they will need significantly more planes than BA currently have on order. One Aer Lingus A32S can do 4 or 5 round trips a day between London and Dublin. To use these 4 or 5 slot pairs on long haul out of Heathrow you'd need 3 - 5 long haul aircraft because of the greater distances,slower turnrounds, and running into curfews or commercially useless arrival/departure times.
The other point is that BA currently operates on LHR-DUB in its own right too with its own slots and A32S planes. If they do want to take slots away for long haul expansion using these slots would break no promises and it would take quite some expansion to use all these slots up.

Exactly, BA can cut its own LHR-DUB flights and just be codeshare on LHR-DUB with EI (like IB does where BA operates all the LHR-BCN flights). If more capacity is needed, EI could add additional A321 aircraft to maximise the capacity on DUB-LHR.
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BrianDromey
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 11):
Exactly, BA can cut its own LHR-DUB flights and just be codeshare on LHR-DUB with EI (like IB does where BA operates all the LHR-BCN flights). If more capacity is needed, EI could add additional A321 aircraft to maximise the capacity on DUB-LHR.

Indeed they could, if they wished. They might want to keep a Club style product on the route, although they seem to do OK out of BHD without it. That said, all they would have to do is slap a moveable divider into the EI fleet and they would have a comparable product to CE. I think the CVx series and the A321s still have the rails above the overhead bins? the dividers are probably in a hangar somewhere!
IB do actually operate some LHR-MAD flights, they have a daily A330/A340 - mainly for cargo I think. All BA codeshares on LHR-MAd (but strangely not MAD-LHR) are within the "normal" BA flight number sequence.

Quoting andy33 (Reply 10):
n order to use these slots to expand on other routes from LHR, they will need significantly more planes than BA currently have on order. One Aer Lingus A32S can do 4 or 5 round trips a day between London and Dublin. To use these 4 or 5 slot pairs on long haul out of Heathrow you'd need 3 - 5 long haul aircraft because of the greater distances,slower turnrounds, and running into curfews or commercially useless arrival/departure times.

Andy, I completely agree. IAG does have a substantial number of long-haul aircraft on-order, but they also have a substantial number of agin 772, 744 and 346 to replace, as I have said before, even if IAG had 100+ new wide bodies arriving tomorrow, it is completely illogical that IAG would use all, or even a majority of LHR slots for long haul. LHR just is not in the right place for a long-haul to long-haul hub and the substantial O&D market to Europe needs to be served too. IAG has launched 4 new long-haul destinations since the BD acquisition, if they were really that desperate to launch new long-haul routes they could have kept more 767 and 744s as 787, 77W and A380 entered the fleet.
 
commavia
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:30 pm

Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
1. Use EI for passengers connecting from the UK regions to the USA, taking advantage of US Pre-Clearance at DUB and SNN
Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
2. Expand the long haul fleet - EI plan 1 new aircraft per year, IAG can see 1 extra per year above that
Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
5. EI will rejoin the oneworld Alliance

6. EI will join the transatlantic joint venture with IB, AA, BA and AY
Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
8. More destinations in the USA
Quoting classiclover (Reply 4):
10. EI will have access to AA's extensive corporate accounts, network and sales force on the American side as a partner

Given the plan to bring Aer Lingus back into oneworld, and integrate the airline into the existing oneworld transatlantic ATI/JV, I could plausibly imagine a reshuffling of some of Aer Lingus' existing U.S. routes, to potentially include:

* Shifting the existing 4x weekly A330 DUB-IAD to a daily A330 DUB-PHL flight, and then either downgauging IAD to a 757 or exiting that market entirely (exchanging United east coast feed at IAD for AA at PHL)
* Shifting the existing daily A330 DUB-SFO to a daily A330 DUB-LAX (again, due to exchanging feed between United and AA)
* Adding at least 3-4x weekly A330 DUB-MIA to augment the existing Florida route to MCO (and due to AA feed)

In addition to those three changes - which I think would be quite possible if not likely - I suppose it's not entirely out of the question that, depending on how the market evolved and responded to the new competitive dynamic, DUB-DFW could be possible (presumably as a 3-4x weekly A330, perhaps just summer-only). Personally, it's hard for me to imagine DUB-DFW making sense, but given that Aer Lingus was reportedly considering the route even before the prospect of an IAG integration, I don't think it would be totally unthinkable in this hypothetical scenario given the feed and connectivity AA would provide there.
 
greenjet
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Shifting the existing daily A330 DUB-SFO to a daily A330 DUB-LAX (again, due to exchanging feed between United and AA)

Are there really many pax connecting at the SFO end though? I imagine more pax are connecting at the DUB end. DUB-SFO probably has better yields than DUB-LAX due to the number of Bay Area tech companies with their European ops based in Ireland. Pure speculation on my part though. DUB-LAX will also see the entry of ET this year, albeit at 3x daily. Also an 0630 departure from, and 1830 arrival into, DUB may not be much of a barrier to entry for competitors.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:50 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):

Aer Lingus said "New US destinations would be added to its network if the (IAG) takeover succeeds"

I think MIA, LAX, and DFW would be under serious consideration if EI joins One World and IAG.

Back when AA and EI partnered, I heard rumors from a solid source that DFW was very high on the list of new destinations they were planning.
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9w748capt
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:41 pm

EI would be a home run addition to oneworld - here's hoping it works out! Never have flown through DUB - but it seems it would be a million times more pleasant to transit through than LHR - not that that's saying much!

I wonder if EI would keep DUB-SFO for the tech links, and instead of LAX, start DUB-DFW to maximize connectivity with AA? DFW would be preferable to LAX as a connecting point, but I'm not sure what the traffic is like between LAX and Ireland - perhaps both routes could be justified in the context of EI in oneworld and as part of the JV.
 
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Miami
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
I think MIA, LAX, and DFW would be under serious consideration if EI joins One World and IAG.

Couldn't agree more.

Aer Lingus has said it before they were looking at DFW. Another Florida city. And there was rumors of restarting LAX.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
YVRLTN
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 3):
Dublin would make an attractive hub for connecting the regions to North America.

Do we assume the existing EI Regional agreement with Aer Arann / Stobart would be unaffected? How would their relationship potentially be with IAG and OneWorld? Would certainly be a great solution to providing service to the UK regions without using LHR.
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ClassicLover
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 16):
EI would be a home run addition to oneworld - here's hoping it works out! Never have flown through DUB - but it seems it would be a million times more pleasant to transit through than LHR - not that that's saying much!

Transit at LHR is fine if you're not changing terminals. If you're changing terminals it's quite a bit of a mission!

With the consolidation of alliances in their own terminals it's not as bad as it was.

That being said, transit in Dublin is a million times easier, shorter and more pleasant as it's a smaller airport overall.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18):
Do we assume the existing EI Regional agreement with Aer Arann / Stobart would be unaffected? How would their relationship potentially be with IAG and OneWorld? Would certainly be a great solution to providing service to the UK regions without using LHR.

My guess would that it would remain the same, as it's already a major feeder to Aer Lingus. However, I would also guess that more services would move to Aer Lingus mainline to cater for the extra traffic. Whether that results in more A319s and A320s or whether that results in some other aircraft larger than an ATR and smaller than A319 is anyone's guess.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
BrianDromey
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting classiclover (Reply 19):
My guess would that it would remain the same, as it's already a major feeder to Aer Lingus. However, I would also guess that more services would move to Aer Lingus mainline to cater for the extra traffic. Whether that results in more A319s and A320s or whether that results in some other aircraft larger than an ATR and smaller than A319 is anyone's guess.

That is the plan, over time, IAG or not. Airbus equipment for trunk routes such as LHR/LGW, a mix of equipment to the likes of MAN/BHX and ATR only to the smaller airports. Its a good strategy to keep the ATR fleet busy at non-peak times, when the thinner routes likely have little demand and allows the Airbus fleet to go on longer stage lengths to Europe after a quick early morning turn to the UK.
 
Calpe
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:27 pm

I do wonder if the deal goes through whether some 787's could find their way to EI as I think they would work well on their transatlantic routes and possibly the 787-10 could be a great fit long term for some of the busier routes should they expand sufficiently under IAG. The 787-8 would also give the option of a smaller wide body capable of replacing the a332 on their thinner routes.

Long term a single 787 fleet could work well and within IAG they have the potential to transfer the A350 to IB should they wish to keep fleet commonality.
 
RandWkop
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:04 pm

Quoting Calpe (Reply 21):

I don't think any aircraft have moved between BA and IB so far. EI are capable of filling the A350s. Would they want the less spacious 787? BA have been getting bad reviews on the 787 Y product.
 
Bluebird191
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting greenjet (Reply 14):
DUB-LAX will also see the enry of ET this year, albeit at 3x daily.

ET flying the route 3x daily? Isn't it going to be 3x weekly unless I've missed the announcement of the significant increase in frequency.
 
greenjet
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 23):
ET flying the route 3x daily? Isn't it going to be 3x weekly unless I've missed the announcement of the significant increase in frequency.

Clearly a typo. Well done. I'm surprised you didn't point out my incorrect spelling of "entry" too  
 
Prost
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:17 am

I know the London is an important world city, but does IAG need to be headquartered there? Couldn't they significantly reduce costs if all corporate functions were moved to Dublin?
 
kaitak
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting RandWKOP (Reply 22):
I don't think any aircraft have moved between BA and IB so far. EI are capable of filling the A350s. Would they want the less spacious 787? BA have been getting bad reviews on the 787 Y product.

I think virtually every airline has; the 787 at nine abreast has not gone down well. Qatar Airways, United etc ... the list goes on.

I think the A350 will be considerably more popular, since it has a wider fuselage.

EI had been looking at the A330Neo, but that talk seems to have died down; they did change to the A350 Regional model, which has a lower MTOW, but still with sufficient range to do anything that EI would want to do.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:27 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 25):
I know the London is an important world city, but does IAG need to be headquartered there? Couldn't they significantly reduce costs if all corporate functions were moved to Dublin?

Why stick to Dublin when they could probably find cheap land on the Portuguese border or Yorkshire?
 
Andy33
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 25):
I know the London is an important world city, but does IAG need to be headquartered there? Couldn't they significantly reduce costs if all corporate functions were moved to Dublin?

Since they could have moved their corporate functions to Madrid (also cheaper than London and quite possibly cheaper than Dublin) at any time since 2011 and have not done so, I suspect that the amount to be saved isn't that large, maybe less than the cost of moving, especially if key people were lost as a result.

Bear in mind that the vast majority of IAG employees don't work for IAG itself, they work for BA, Iberia, or Vueling. BA and Iberia need to be able to prove that they are actually British or Spanish airlines to retain traffic rights to some destinations so they need a certain level of headquarters staff in country. As Aer Lingus doesn't as far as I know fly to anywhere (except Izmir in Turkey) that isn't covered by EU open skies agreements the traffic rights issue doesn't have the same force.
From an investor relations point of view IAG is quoted on the London and Madrid stock exchanges. It isn't intended to seek a quote on the Dublin stock exchange, so it would be odd to move the investor relations team there, away from all the analysts, brokers, bankers and so on that they work with. Similar issues apply to the corporate treasury team, London is the leading financial centre in Europe (along with Frankfurt, and unless they merge with Lufthansa...).
 
vv701
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:12 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 25):
I know the London is an important world city, but does IAG need to be headquartered there?
Quoting andy33 (Reply 28):
Since they could have moved their corporate functions to Madrid (also cheaper than London and quite possibly cheaper than Dublin) at any time since 2011 and have not done so,

IAG is a Spanish registered company. As such it is legally required to hold ALL of its AGMs in Spain. Having its HQ in the euro region its accounts as published are in euros and not sterling. Its shares are quoted on both the Madrid and ~London Stock Exchanges.
 
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OA260
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 25):
I know the London is an important world city, but does IAG need to be headquartered there? Couldn't they significantly reduce costs if all corporate functions were moved to Dublin?

I think politically it is a hot potato. Especially in the UK now with an election coming up and corporate tax avoidance very much in the news. The media would have a field day. It has been suggested though that in future Ireland may be an attractive base just like Paypal/Ebay/Google are all here taking advantage.

I think the emphasis on the presentation to the Irish government is focusing more on creating Irish jobs and bringing in more investment and tourism in to the country. Again with elections here in Ireland they want to come out looking good.
 
stratocruiser
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting greenjet (Reply 14):
* Shifting the existing 4x weekly A330 DUB-IAD to a daily A330 DUB-PHL flight, and then either downgauging IAD to a 757 or exiting that market entirely (exchanging United east coast feed at IAD for AA at PHL)
* Shifting the existing daily A330 DUB-SFO to a daily A330 DUB-LAX (again, due to exchanging feed between United and AA)
* Adding at least 3-4x weekly A330 DUB-MIA to augment the existing Florida route to MCO (and due to AA feed)

Apart from the fact that Washington is a very important destination in it's own right and should be able to sustain at least 4x weekly A330 flights particularly given the growing transit traffic through DUB, PHL is already served by a One World carrier (US Airways/AA) from DUB and adding another daily A330 to this route might push it beyond saturation point.

With regard to DUB-SFO, this has proven more successful for EI than the LAX route which they tried a few years ago and they would have to be crazy to shift that 330 to LAX. I agree however that LAX, with it's huge catchment population and major potential for inbound tourist traffic, should be reintroduced by EI and I think it might prove more successful for them this time round given the additional opportunities for transit traffic though DUB which is much more well developed now than when EI last operated to LAX. Apart from the Hawaiian routes and possibly some local west coast routes, I cannot however see a lot of potential connecting traffic for the AA hub at LAX though.

I agree that MIA would be another logical addition both for it's huge tourism potential and as a feed for the huge AA hub there for particularly for connections to Central America and the Caribbean. I am not however sure that DFW would be able to sustain even a 3x weekly A330 from DUB even with potential connecting traffic, as much of that could be routed through the AA hub in MIA anyway if EI were to start flights to the Florida airport.

If EI were to introduce 2 additional long haul aircraft per year over the next few years, as suggested by IAG, they would almost certainly need to look at further expansion to North America. Under there circumstances I did wonder what new destinations they might look at? LAS crossed my mind as a major tourist destination which should be viable with increasing transit traffic from the UK regions through the DUB hub. SEA may be another possibility. Apart from these destinations, all of which would require an A330 because of it's range, I think EI should also consider looking at a number of destinations in the northeastern USA, which are no longer served by any airline from LHR and would be within the range of a 757 (or A321LR in the future). The ones that come to mind for me in particular are CLE and PIT, which with transit traffic should support a 757, although they may also have significant O&D traffic given the significant large ethnic Irish population in both of these cities. If EI wanted to be even more innovative and adventurous they could even consider destinations like BUF/Niagara and ALB, both of which are large population centres which also have big Irish (and indeed British and European) ethnic populations and could work out very well for EI. Not to forget Canada - Two that come to mind are YUL, a major tourist destination which should be able to sustain a 757 3-4x weekly at least during the summer (EI used to operate a 707 to ORD via YUL many years ago although those were the days when it was a state subsidized airline!) and YHZ as the bulk of the population of Halifax is of British or Irish ethnic origin.

Could prove to be very exciting times with EI under IAG with good management!
 
RandWkop
Posts: 180
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 26):

NZ has been getting good reviews. But they chose a different seat design than the standard seat offered by Boeing.
 
321neoLR
Topic Author
Posts: 36
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:08 am

Quoting stratocruiser (Reply 31):

Quoting greenjet (Reply 14):



Could prove to be very exciting times with EI under IAG with good management!

I agree, but with the current labour tds wanting to vote against until after the next election, this plan might be dead. Do a Google search for Aer Lingus seven. It will amaze you with the election politics.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:51 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
That will be one of the main problems for the government. I just don't think that there would be only job losses in the head office roles. I think it will affect the whole airline.

What makes you say that ?

if you track what's happening at BA at present, you can see a significant flow of maintenance and repainting work heading out to MAD, there were one or two highly vociferous Spaniards on here at one point screaming that work would be taken away from Spain, it has however proved to be the opposite. BA aren't in a position to expand their maintenance operations at LHR, and with the fleet slowly increasing the work has to take place somewhere.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):
All we can do is wait. The government will decide shortly and it will be that which makes or breaks the deal unless another way is found in the event of a rejection

History has shown that Governments rarely make good airline owners, eventually reality overcomes protectionism.

Quoting Prost (Reply 25):

I know the London is an important world city, but does IAG need to be headquartered there? Couldn't they significantly reduce costs if all corporate functions were moved to Dublin?

Firstly IAG is headquartered in Spain not the UK, secondly is Dublin a low cost City ? it certainly wasn't at the height of the Celtic Tiger boom.

Presently Eire offers a low rate of corporation tax compared to many other Countries, but the tax authorities in many economies are getting wise to this and it becomes ever harder to make profits appear where tax is the lowest.

One example is the change in VAT laws in Europe, online traders now have to charge on the basis of the buyers residence, not the sellers, thus removing the benefit of taking orders via Luxembourg or Jersey.
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2192
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 34):
One example is the change in VAT laws in Europe, online traders now have to charge on the basis of the buyers residence, not the sellers, thus removing the benefit of taking orders via Luxembourg or Jersey.

Which is only right to be honest - it removes the farcical situation where I could order something from Tesco ( a UK company) to my house in the UK and the order would be processed abroad to avoid UK tax - the DVDs weren't that much cheaper though - I'm guessing that it was all going into profit!
 
jfk777
Posts: 7244
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
I think MIA, LAX, and DFW would be under serious consideration if EI joins One World and IAG.

Boston, JFK and ORD are the traditional Irish VFR routes to the USA, if Aer Lingus does get eaten by IAG Miami, LAX and DFW or CLT better be in the plan. CLT may be the better gateway since its in the middle of the east coast.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 34):
Firstly IAG is headquartered in Spain not the UK, secondly is Dublin a low cost City ? it certainly wasn't at the height of the Celtic Tiger boom.

IAG is registered in Spain, its HQ is at Heathrow in a building near Airways House where Willie Walsh works. Willie doesn't live in Madrid.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting RandWKOP (Reply 22):
I don't think any aircraft have moved between BA and IB so far

Not post-delivery but I recall 5 x A320s ordered by IB were delivered to BA
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:59 pm

I can see some interesting options for TATL services from LHR transiting through DUB.

Advantages:

1 Pre-clearance of US immigration. BA already do this from LCY via SNN to JFK. Maybe LCY services will now go via DUB.

2 The UK's Air Passenger Duty may only be payable from LHR to DUB on a flight transiting through DUB, not on the mileage all the way to the USA / Canada.

3 Capacity to route transferring passengers from the UK outside London direct to DUB rather than through LHR, reducing passenger congestion in LHR.
 
S75752
Posts: 1470
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
* Shifting the existing daily A330 DUB-SFO to a daily A330 DUB-LAX (again, due to exchanging feed between United and AA)

This is my worry but I think it could be likely.

Quoting stratocruiser (Reply 31):
With regard to DUB-SFO, this has proven more successful for EI than the LAX route which they tried a few years ago

I do wonder if the foremost reason for this is the presence of quite large hubs on both ends. There are a couple ways that this could go;
1. EI shifts the 330 over to LAX. ET is effectively kicked off the rather strange 5th freedom route, and maybe tries another 5th freedom through some other *A hub (preferrably to SFO!). Connections to DUB are fed from about the West Coast, LAS, and the like through AA.
2. EI keeps the 330 on SFO, and lets AA serve LAX-DUB with a 787. (I find this to be the least likely, unless the 330 really does hold up almost entirely on O&D at SFO). Fed in the same way on both ends as the above option. ET is still kicked off the route.
3. EI shifts the 330 away from SFO to instead add frequency to an existing OW destination, and leaves LAX untouched (Even less likely). ET gets to keep the business on the route despite no partner hub in DUB.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:52 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
I just don't think that there would be only job losses in the head office roles. I think it will affect the whole airline.
Quoting classiclover (Reply 6):
Aer Lingus is no Iberia, which was heavily loss making at the time of the merger with BA to create IAG.

This is your answer. IAG are bidding on the 3rd most profitable airline doing shorthaul in Europe. They had a 5% profit margin in 2012. They have already cut all the fat from their bones to operate as they are.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):

As I said before, I don't think this bid will go through just yet. Probably in the future. There seems to be too much confusion and not unanimous opinion. It is always hard to make this kind of decisions when there are multiple owners and especially government included.

The problem you have is that if the Irish Govt says 'No' now no-one will want to try a make a bid. IAG could easily come back in 2-3 years and make a lower offer....or just take over 60-75% and ignore the Irish Govt.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 5):
That is the next thing. If that promise keeps, definitely after 5 years many of those slots would go for BA expansion in other routes.

Of all the possible buyers of EI, I think IAG are the only ones who don't need their slots. BA have dominance at LHR and a surplus of slots. IAG can keep 80-90% of the EI slots to use as feeders for the BA longhaul network. In addition the EI routes are profitable, (they are too small to carry weak routes) why would IAG kill a profitable route that is strong on point to point and transfer traffic. Doing so would hand the Irish longhaul market to EK/EY/TK ex-DUB.
 
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Miami
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:19 pm

Aer Lingus has named its strategy planning head, Stephen Kavanagh, as its new chief executive to amid IAG takeover efforts
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 3):
With its US pre clearance facilities should the deal go through Dublin would make an attractive hub for connecting the regions to North America.

Ideal location for an A321LR hub to North America.   

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
mwhcvt
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:01 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 38):

I there's a problem with it moving and that would be slower stops in Dublin, though I guess there's the possibility that additional PAX could get collected from DUB who would do JFK - DUB on EI metal, however it would mean that both flights could get pre clearance again as I believe now BA3 doesn't get pre clearance since a reduction in service at SNN

So they'd need to outweigh the slower transit of DUB to the possible significant benefits, I wonder if DUB would be able to offer priority handling to these two flights?
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 43):
there's a problem with it moving and that would be slower stops in Dublin

Can you expand on that? Why would the stop in DUB be slower than SNN? Is it infrastructure/facilitiy layout? Volume at certain times? (I've been through the process in SNN - genuinely curious about why it would be slower in DUB.)
 
RandWkop
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 10:56 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):

The reason for DUB - SFO was to accommodate direct flights for silicon valley employees. I can't see EI moving that flight. If they do then it is possible that UA will put a 787 on the route.
 
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Aisak
Posts: 908
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RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 12):
IB do actually operate some LHR-MAD flights, they have a daily A330/A340 - mainly for cargo I think. All BA codeshares on LHR-MAd (but strangely not MAD-LHR) are within the "normal" BA flight number sequence.

That's mainly due to the BA systems at T5 as i read here on a.net. The terminal was set to be only for BA and its layout and systems are prepared for BA flights even if it happens to be another airline the one operating the flight.
The online, mobile, self, and manned check-in is BA's, the boarding pass is BA's... everything is BA even if you buy the IB operated flight with the IB code, so they can work the system arround.

Quoting classiclover (Reply 19):
Transit at LHR is fine if you're not changing terminals. If you're changing terminals it's quite a bit of a mission!

Everybody is talking about how wonderful it would be to use DUB from UK regions to USA but nobody seems to look at the LHR side for transfers. The only gates capable of handling domestic/Irish flights are at T5 and T2. And now that BA's DUB and BHD have moved, I don't know if they can squeeze 20+ flights in the CTA gates at T5. Could this mean IAG being (again) split across 3 terminals at Heathrow?
 
Phen
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:05 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 46):
I don't know if they can squeeze 20+ flights in the CTA gates at T5. Could this mean IAG being (again) split across 3 terminals at Heathrow?

That's a good question and I'd be interested to hear what people think will happen. I would think that ideally, yes IAG would like EI in T5 if space wasn't tight. But being realistic, would EI being in T5 really be of benefit? EI and BA already codeshare so an IAG tie-up won't radically alter the scene. I don't have figures to hand, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet that most of EI's LHR traffic is O&D, so overall there isn't much to be gained by a terminal move. And now that BA does serve DUB from T5, most OW connecting traffic can just be routed through T5 on BA's own metal and leave the O&Ds in T2 on EI metal.
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1035
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:04 pm

Don't forget IB and VY. I expect code sharing and co-ordinated scheduled on DUB-MAD, code sharing on IB's Latin America routes and interlining with VY.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5592
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: IAG And Aer Lingus

Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 48):
[Don't forget IB and VY. I expect code sharing and co-ordinated scheduled on DUB-MAD, code sharing on IB's Latin America routes and interlining with VY.

Definitely. I was checking MAD-DUB and it is quite of a mess between Aer Lingus and Iberia Express; not really a regular schedule at all.

If only two daily MAD-DUB on EI/I2 would help to improve connectivity both sides. On the AA/IB/BA JV from MAD, year-round there are services only to JFK (IB/AA), MIA (IB/AA), ORD (IB), PHL (US - AA -) and DFW (AA). EI would be a good complement at least for BOS, SFO and MCO, and of course from other cities where EI flies or could potentially fly in Spain.

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