Andy33
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 22):
More than a good move from EK, I think this is a bad move from MXP.
JFK was already well served from that airport. Letting EK introduce so much capacity will drive away other carriers.
They should have proposed EK to open a link to an unserved destination or one where there is currently not much capacity deployed.

What on earth could MXP do about it? These are existing flights by EK, not a new introduction, all they've done is upgrade to a bigger aircraft.

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 32):
Time to review US-Italy ASA.

Too late, this flight has already left the gate. The time to review the agreement was when the flight was introduced in 2013, not two years later when they simply upgauge the flight. And it opens a can of worms about fifth freedom flights which may damage US carriers more than the ME3, as they seem to have a lot more of them in other parts of the world.
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 32):
Time to review US-Italy ASA.

How do you expect to do that? Italy is a part of the European Union.
 
theginge
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 32):
Time to review US-Italy ASA.
Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 51):
How do you expect to do that? Italy is a part of the European Union.

Exactly, a review would mean reviewing open skies between the USA and all EU countries, can't see that happening.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 44):
EK cannot bend every rule to their advantage. 5th freedom made sense when planes couldn't fly long distances and flights originating from remote parts couldn't fill seats.



Not entirely true, 5th freedom rights aren't necessary to make tech stops. But I agree with the 2nd part.
 
IADLHR
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 49):
Too late, this flight has already left the gate. The time to review the agreement was when the flight was introduced in 2013, not two years later when they simply upgauge the flight. And it opens a can of worms about fifth freedom flights which may damage US carriers more than the ME3, as they seem to have a lot more of them in other parts of the world.

Exactly, plus it would call into question the good faith, trust and credibility of the USA in every other agreements in every other subject besides aviation. It is not going to happen.
 
alfa164
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:39 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 35):

such ironic twist of fate ... DL is most out-spoken against ME3 (even more than LH), and now, this EK move will hurt AZ+DL the most

I don't think this is a coincidence.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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enilria
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:41 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
4x daily Emirates A380 service to JFK? Yup. Emirates is starting A380 service from MXP to JFK.

Starting June 1st. EK205/206 , the 77W will be upgauged to an A380.

DL has been arguing that this route doesn't qualify for 5th freedom because not enough of the seats are being sold to JFK-DXB passengers. I'm awaiting the EK statement that reads : "we are addressing Delta's concerns by ensuring there is sufficient capacity for through passengers JFK-DXB since demand is so strong JFK-MXP that we were not reaching our goals for the through passengers".
 
IADLHR
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting theginge (Reply 52):
Exactly, a review would mean reviewing open skies between the USA and all EU countries, can't see that happening

If that happened the UA/LH, AA/BA and DL/AF ATI would possibly be in jeopardy as would the access to LHR that was fought for and sought for decades by US carriers could be in jeopardy. It is not going to happen.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting bobdino (Reply 39):
From someone who doesn't know what fifth freedom rights are, that's a big call to make.

I am well aware of what 5th freedom rights are.

I am asking how EK has them between Italy and the US.

Not an unusual question.

But the usual snarky, snide, rude comment as a response from an a.net member.

I ask a question, I get flamed.

So now I will ask you...how did EK get the 5th freedom rights to fly MXP-JFK and as per my original post, do they have the rights to fly Europe-US from any port?

No one answered that. Maybe you can.

Thank You kind sir.
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 58):

I'm not sure it would be an issue - the US has open skies agreements with both the EU and the UAE, and while I'm not sure that there is such an agreement between the EU and the UAE, receiving permission from Italy is not likely to have been a big hurdle for Emirates. So in other words, there wouldn't be much to stop Emirates from being receiving the go-ahead to operate this route.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:03 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 50):

What 5th flight? American carriers barely do it. UA HKG-SGN and RUH-DOH what else?
 
747megatop
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 2):
Another slap in the face from EK aimed at Delta and US carriers criticizing it. Will be interesting to see how US airlines respond to this

It would have been a slap in the face if EK had started TATL flights from LHR,AMS&CDG with feeds from other cities on the European end. This is at the most a slap in the face of probably Alitalia if they succeed in taking traffic away from them.
 
Andy33
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 60):
What 5th flight? American carriers barely do it. UA HKG-SGN and RUH-DOH what else?

What about the services across Narita?
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 60):


What 5th flight? American carriers barely do it. UA HKG-SGN and RUH-DOH what else?

UA has a handful but all mostly short ones :

(done because of lack of equipment for nonstop distance)
HKG-SIN/SGN
NRT-ICN/SIN
previously NRT-TPE but now switched to SFO-TPE nonstop
previously NRT-BKK but cancelled after losing govt bid to DL

(done because insufficient nonstop demand)
KWI-BAH
previously DXB-DOH but cancelled after losing govt bid to QR
previously SYD-MEL but now switched to LAX-MEL nonstop

These are the ones from more recent history. There were tons from the old days of the true NRT hub.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 63):

I don't think some of them are 5th freedom, because they require change of aircraft if I remember right.
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 64):


I don't think some of them are 5th freedom, because they require change of aircraft if I remember right.

i thought 5th freedom only means carrying local traffic between 2 international points that doesn't touch the home country, regardless of gauge.

SYD-MEL is a tag but not a 5th freedom obviously.
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 19):
They'll be sending them on new routes like Bob's Airport, North Dakota, and Sally's International Airport and Barn, Idaho. They feel they can develop a market there, and eventually up-gauge those to A380s as well once the 777W hits 12% loads.

LMAO!!! That was perfect! I can just picture a tiny airport in the prairie with a 77W parked there, and a pickup truck backed up to the bulk cargo hold.

You know, Sally has big plans for Sally's Barn. Rumor has it that they're going to add another 100 space parking lot, have separate departure and arrival areas, and finally get the 2nd x-ray machine working.

I shouldn't laugh too much. My home airport is GSO, which is relatively deserted. Maybe I could show Tim Clark where we are on the map, and convince him to being service there. We've got room for a couple of 77Ws.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 20):
I'm fairly certain the last annual report for EK showed they had an average LF of 82% network wide...

I have a brilliant suggestion for EK to achieve 100% LF and lot of cargo.

Remove unoccupied seats and carry them as cargo on every flight. Adjust available seats, voila you have 100% LF.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 51):
Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 32):
Time to review US-Italy ASA.

How do you expect to do that? Italy is a part of the European Union.

The USA-Italy (EU) agreements are TOTALLY irrelevant to this issue and any review pointless!
What matters is the USA - UAE and the UAE - Italy (EU) agreements. The UAE - Italy (EU) agreements gives UAE airlines the right to fly to ports "beyond" the Italian ports it serves, carrying local traffic. The agreement may place limitations/restrictions on such rights, but such are spelled out in the UAE - Italy (EU) agreement.
The UAE - USA agreement gives UAE airlines rights to operate to the USA via "intermediate ports" and carry local traffic to/from the USA on those flights. Again any restrictions/limitations are spelled out in the UAE - USA agreement.
So, to use 5th freedom rights an UAE carrier MUST satisfy the requirements of the UAE - Italy (EU) agreement AND the requirements of the UAE - USA agreement.
Notice that there is NO agreement between Italy (EU) and the USA about 5th freedom rights, they fall outside that agreement. If the USA wish to review/complain about/stop such flights it would have to renegotiate the UAE - USA agreement, NOT the Italy (EU) - USA agreement, as they DO NOT take place under that agreement.

Gemuser
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behramjee
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:46 pm

I made a booking on sabre for 04JUN JFK-MXP and return MXP-JFK on 18JUN and the rate for both EK and DL was US$ 910 all taxes inclusive and not $500 ! In July for 02-11 dates, it is $1210 all inclusive.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:10 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 2):
Will be interesting to see how US airlines respond to this

I doubt if they can, or even should. Seatguru shows the Emirate's jets with 489 seats each. Four flights daily is 1956 seats available for the route. Delta is running 2 A330s daily with 293 seats each. Alitalia seems to be flying the route as a code share with DL out of JFK. You cannot tell me that there is any sustainable demand for 2500 seats daily into Malpensa, and that people banging down the doors to get there! I could be wrong, but I truly doubt it. As for price wars, I'm one of the few last believers in capitalism. If Emirates can keep the roundtrip airfare to Europe, Italy no less, to under $1000, and Delta matches, I'm there. On Delta, even if it means the major schlepp to get into Milan and on to the other Italian cities. But clearly, this is pretty predatory, and you cannot convince me that Emirates isn't being subsidized to the hilt to be able to do it.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
ASA
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 70):
I doubt if they can, or even should. Seatguru shows the Emirate's jets with 489 seats each. Four flights daily is 1956 seats available for the route. Delta is running 2 A330s daily with 293 seats each. Alitalia seems to be flying the route as a code share with DL out of JFK. You cannot tell me that there is any sustainable demand for 2500 seats daily into Malpensa, and that people banging down the doors to get there! I could be wrong, but I truly doubt it. As for price wars, I'm one of the few last believers in capitalism. If Emirates can keep the roundtrip airfare to Europe, Italy no less, to under $1000, and Delta matches, I'm there. On Delta, even if it means the major schlepp to get into Milan and on to the other Italian cities. But clearly, this is pretty predatory, and you cannot convince me that Emirates isn't being subsidized to the hilt to be able to do it.

Wait! only ONE of the flights go via MXP ... am I right? The other three are still nonstop JFK-DXB

OP please confirm!
 
hohd
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:27 am

There are only 3 flights from JFK to DXB now, 2 non stop and 1 via MXP. Where is the 4th daily coming from. Is this a future flight.


Kuwait airways has been offering service for decades on JFK-LHR and AI was too, no is upset about that.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:36 am

Quoting hohd (Reply 72):

True, I don't believe success or failure should determine whether an airline can use the fifth freedom rights.
 
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Miami
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting hohd (Reply 72):
There are only 3 flights from JFK to DXB now

It's a future flight. Starts March 8th.

Here's proof: Emirates To Increase JFK - 4 Daily (by Miami Nov 6 2014 in Civil Aviation)
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
ltbewr
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:36 am

I bet EK's service is far better than DL on such a long haul. At that price, especially at midweek, I bet tour operators will use them for seats.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:48 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 63):
previously SYD-MEL but now switched to LAX-MEL nonstop

SYD-MEL was not a 5th freedom route for UA. They'd need 8th freedom to operate that.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 64):
I don't think some of them are 5th freedom, because they require change of aircraft if I remember right.

Change of gauge doesn't mean anything in terms of 5th freedom.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 68):
The USA-Italy (EU) agreements are TOTALLY irrelevant to this issue and any review pointless!
What matters is the USA - UAE and the UAE - Italy (EU) agreements.

Completely makes sense.

What was the last year lawsuit in Italy against EK about? I thought winning that case emboldened EK in pushing 5th freedom.
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 76):
SYD-MEL was not a 5th freedom route for UA. They'd need 8th freedom to operate that.
Quoting a380787 (Reply 65):
SYD-MEL is a tag but not a 5th freedom obviously.

I already said it's not a 5th freedom previously.
 
ytz
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:14 pm

There's a limit to how much EK can do in this regard. How much money can they really make on MXP-JFK when they add significant capacity and dilute the fares?

Not arguing for capacity controls. Just a recognition that hysteria is unwarranted because there is a practical limit that impacts their profits too.

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 19):
They'll be sending them on new routes like Bob's Airport, North Dakota, and Sally's International Airport and Barn, Idaho. They feel they can develop a market there, and eventually up-gauge those to A380s as well once the 777W hits 12% loads.

The Europeans thought the same way about places likes MAN, DUS, and ZRH. Not quite "Bob's Airport, North Dakota". But I doubt you would have ever found a European carrier who ever thought any of these cities could support an A380 service. How'd that work out for them?

Heck, I would have never expected an A380 at PER or AKL.

They have a knack for seeing and developing markets which the legacies simply aren't all that interested in.
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 79):

The Europeans thought the same way about places likes MAN, DUS, and ZRH. Not quite "Bob's Airport, North Dakota". But I doubt you would have ever found a European carrier who ever thought any of these cities could support an A380 service. How'd that work out for them?

Mr Armchair CEO, if you were BA what routes would you run out of MAN to Asia ? And with what plane? EK can support A380 only because they're fanning out connections all over Africa, ME, India, Asia, and A/NZ.

Individually, MAN can barely support HKG SIN and maybe DEL.

Don't criticize the legacies if you can't propose a better alternative.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:52 pm

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 34):

no, it is competition, which will help give choice to customers and help keep prices low.

it's a free market, and other carriers will need to find new ways to compete if they lose market share.

Competition requires parties competing fairly. And companies that are on equal footing, not some that are owned and operated by the richest oil kingdoms. And the ability for other airlines to easily open up routes with no restrictions. Otherwise there is no free market. And no true competition. Prices may be lower for a time, but once a big player gets enough of a market share to drive off others they can slowly raise prices. Call it the Wal-Mart-ing effect.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 70):
Delta is running 2 A330s daily with 293 seats each. Alitalia seems to be flying the route as a code share with DL out of JFK

Semantics, I know, but it's actually one Alitalia a330 and one Delta a330 each day, not 2 Delta a330s.  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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Richard28
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 81):
Competition requires parties competing fairly. And companies that are on equal footing, not some that are owned and operated by the richest oil kingdoms. And the ability for other airlines to easily open up routes with no restrictions. Otherwise there is no free market. And no true competition

Very true, but it works both ways, QR 's rebuttal today points out the $5 billion aid and $10billion loan guarantees after 9/11 to US airlines and points out the difference between state equity and state subsidy.

As discussed here, the Chapter 11 laws in the US are also in many peoples eyes (including mine) a form of state intervention working against free open market competition.

In the UK we have accepted and embraced the likes of the ME3 and it has worked great for passengers and competition. It does sound like the US majors are finding it hard to accept this new reality and are clutching at straws - lacking detailed evidence to back up the claims.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 83):
In the UK we have accepted and embraced the likes of the ME3 and it has worked great for passengers and competition. It does sound like the US majors are finding it hard to accept this new reality and are clutching at straws - lacking detailed evidence to back up the claims.

You can include Australia in your camp.

But there are lot more countries fighting back. India, China, South Africa, Philippines, Germany and USA to name a few.

Based on forecast all three top aviation markets USA, China and India are in against camp.

So USA obviously in the majority camp.
 
jmdc861
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46):
Say what now? DL doesnt even fly to T&T

You fail to remember that BW (Caribbean Airlines) is the big boy at Georgetown Guyana which Delta once served daily with 757s from JFK. But Delta left the route claiming the fuel subsidy that BW was then (but no longer is) receiving made it impossible for them to compete on the route (Delta is notorious for citing every reason when they cannot compete except acknowledging their own lousy product).

That said, Delta does not tolerate other airlines doing things they don't like. So to punish BW, the political tool of Delta, Airlines for America, petitioned the DOT to forbid both Caribbean Airlines (the designated flag carrier of the Republic of Guyana as well as T&T) and Fly Jamaica from operating single plane round trips on the JFK-GEO route unless traveling onto another destination like POS or KIN. Again, they were now off the route but the vindictive Delta had to deal the punishment. Caribbean Airlines nor Fly Jamaica do not have the resources to fight such battles as Emirates might have to fight over their authority on JFK to MXP.

The bottom line is airline consolidation in the U.S. has created monsters (like Delta) that you don't want to bend the wrong way else you be the victim of their wrath!

JMDC961
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting jmdc861 (Reply 85):
(Delta is notorious for citing every reason when they cannot compete except acknowledging their own lousy product).

I do have to say that Delta's product on the GEO route was not lousy. They were flying their Transcon/TATL-configured 757s from JFK, which are pretty nice.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 30):
How is EK able to operate this route legally?

Going to AUK from SYD couple years ago i was surprised to see EK on that route also with a A-380...They had the cheapest fares but i went with QF since the time of departure was more convenient..And no American carriers doing this route hmmmmmm..
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 87):

Going to AUK from SYD couple years ago i was surprised to see EK on that route also with a A-380...They had the cheapest fares but i went with QF since the time of departure was more convenient..And no American carriers doing this route hmmmmmm..

EK is really impressive - SYD-AKL BNE-AKL and MEL-AKL all on A380

Regarding US carriers, look at the landscape and it's clear :

UA : Star partner NZ already flies AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop and flies AKL-Aus, so UA would gain nothing from crossing the Tasman themselves.
DL : DL doesn't fly to NZ at all, but VA flies Aus-NZ. They can also piggyback on CI's SYD-AKL tag.
AA : AA doesn't fly to southwest pacific at all, but QF flies Aus-NZ. They can also piggyback on LAN's AKL-SYD tag.
 
jmdc861
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 86):
do have to say that Delta's product on the GEO route was not lousy. They were flying their Transcon/TATL-configured 757s from JFK, which are pretty nice.

Lets all remember that the quality of the product inflight is not measured by what goes on in front of the curtain, but rather what goes on and how people are treated behind the curtain.

JMDC861
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting jmdc861 (Reply 89):

Lets all remember that the quality of the product inflight is not measured by what goes on in front of the curtain, but rather what goes on and how people are treated behind the curtain.

??? So if DL hands out $10B of profit sharing to their employees but have FAs who slams the lunch tray onto my table, that's a A+ quality in your book ???
 
Gemuser
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 77):
What was the last year lawsuit in Italy against EK about?

That case, IIRC, was about whether MXP - JFK was in fact permitted by the UAE - Italy (EU) agreements. The court ruled it was.

Gemuser
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tomcbaker
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:27 pm

Love all the crazies and 'patriots' coming out of the woodwork in this thread. Most who are quick to criticize EK have never flown on them before, have never flown on the A380 before, and/or do not fly regularly on international long-haul (TATL, North America-ME/Australia, etc) routes. Fly to DXB on both an EK A380 and a DL 772 in coach and then tell me that you'd rather spend more money to fly the same route on a DL product that isn't as good. If it was just that EK had a better product or just that it was cheaper, sure, I'm all for patriotism, but when it's a superior product that's ALSO cheaper, it's hard to argue against it. And save the speech about ME government subsidies to their airlines; I'm all set, thanks.

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 18):

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):

pretty sure EK wants to be friends with AA...
but hates DL....

imo AA has played its cards the best, focusing on domestic /Europe and South America while basically outsourcing Asian/ME markets.

Not sure about friends with AA but I know they definitely don't get along with DL. The whole DL CEO bringing up ME airlines and 9/11 bit doesn't really imply they want to be BFF's. I do know that EK has a strong relationship with both Qantas and Alaska (AS), and those two have strong codeshare/FF relationships with both each other and with AA, so you can connect some of the dots.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 21):

Lucky Italy. I would wish for EK to open routes from Germany to the US.

Me too! Hell, I wish EK would fly Europe to Toronto, Vancouver, LAX and ORD. I'd love an option other than super overpriced summer flights on the US/Canadian/Euro legacies, especially during a time of record profits and extremely cheap oil. I have no sympathy for US/Canadian/Euro legacies when they are raking in the money and airfare isn't going down.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 29):
There has been a persistent rumor that has come from a few different sources I have in, or close to AS, that when AS inked their deal with EK, is the same time the AS/DL relationship soured beyond repair & DL went & did their own thing.

This was a prevalent rumor within both DL and AS pilot groups, and that I can speak to from experience. A few years ago when AS cemented their partnership with EK, they were still fairly close to DL. AS has a history of being an independent airline that has resisted calls from others (especially DL) for increasingly closer partnership. I sincerely doubt the AS-EK partnership had much to do with DL's current siege of SEA but it did go some way towards alienating DL, who saw it as a slap in the face (or, as some DL pilots said to me verbatim, as 'cheating' or having an affair with the enemy).

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 32):
Time to review US-Italy ASA.

Why? You don't like competition that results in cheaper fares for consumers? Have you ever flown an EK A380 anywhere and compared it to the current UA 763 on this route? Let me know how you like that.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
Can they start flying Europe Anywhere-US tomorrow?

That would be a dream come true.

Quoting jmdc861 (Reply 45):
And I hope there are more "slaps in the face" to come for DL/AA/UA from EK and others.

Me too. Sometimes it takes a good kick in the rear to 'motivate' and provide a reality check. If DL/AA/UA were struggling then I'd feel empathy of some sort, but they are not. They're bringing in huge profits and benefiting from low oil prices, yet they haven't noticeably reduced international fares with the decline in oil prices and their profits continue to rise each quarter. I'd rather punch them in the face than slap them at the moment, but I'll take whatever I can get.

Quoting jmdc861 (Reply 45):
Lead by the arrogant Delta with its creation of lobbying groups like "Airlines for America" they have been very successful heretofore in bullying airlines like BW in the Caribbean.

DL's arrogance isn't unique but they are definitely competing for the title of ringleader with some of the things they've done recently, like the massive changes to their FF programmes that have effectively alienated a lot of formerly loyal customers, and some of the things the DL CEO has said recently about ME carriers. I still like DL a lot and I think their international product (in coach and business) is the best of any US airline, but the EK CEO had a point recently when he said that US airlines should focus more on self improvement right now if they want to compete, not on bitching and moaning or offering a sub-par product and hoping that politics and lobbying will protect them from foreign competition.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 47):
...How do they treat their customers like garbage? Just because the American airlines don't have as much money as the ME3 to put toward their planes' onboard amenities they're treating their customers like garbage?

Have you ever flown transatlantic or to Asia on UA? I hate to tell you but they were ranked one of the worst in recent years for a reason. I stopped flying UA two years ago after repeated experiences as a business class passenger on international flights where the overall customer service (on board and off) was horrible, my bags were repeatedly lost, and the product on board was 'sub-par' at best, horrendous in most cases. I'd call this the definition of treating customers like garbage, and UA has had a reputation for that over the last few years.
Tom
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):

Me too! Hell, I wish EK would fly Europe to Toronto, Vancouver, LAX and ORD. I'd love an option other than super overpriced summer flights on the US/Canadian/Euro legacies, especially during a time of record profits and extremely cheap oil. I have no sympathy for US/Canadian/Euro legacies when they are raking in the money and airfare isn't going down.

And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:46 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?

The people who have come to accept that Emirates and their like bring superior product at a competitive price comparative to their own nation's carriers are the same who have long come accustomed to accepting the delusion that it is a balanced playing field across the atlantic where one side is protected by chapter 11 and the other is not.

We all have to adjust; it seems some are slower than others.

Rgds
Flying around India
 
TC957
Posts: 3612
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:50 pm

Given the EK still only has 58 ( as of today ) out of their 140 ordered A380's I think we ain't seen nothin' yet in terms of market saturation by EK.
 
tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:52 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?

How exactly are they destroying all competition when most of their major competitors in Europe and North America are not only profitable, but bringing in increasingly higher profits each quarter? Last I checked, DL and AA in particular are doing well, and DL is making a killing. I'm not sure where the disconnect is with you, but in case you haven't noticed, DL is recording some impressive profits (and has been for a while now post-merger) but is NOT reducing fares on many international routes. I'm pretty sure they can afford to compete with EK or suffer the consequences for their arrogance and intransigence. I could replace Delta with Air Canada and I'd be saying the same things.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 94):
We all have to adjust; it seems some are slower than others.

   Couldn't have said it better myself.
Tom
 
liftsifter
Posts: 495
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:25 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 3):
On a separate note, what is EK doing with all of its 777-300ERs? They are still taking delivery of new ones, and yet 777-300ER routes are decreasing.

If I'm not mistaken, EK will begin to retire the first of their 777-300ER's this year, since they're on 11-year cycles.
A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B736 B737 B738 B744 B763 B77L B77E B77W B788 E190
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 96):

How exactly are they destroying all competition when most of their major competitors in Europe and North America are not only profitable, but bringing in increasingly higher profits each quarter? Last I checked, DL and AA in particular are doing well, and DL is making a killing. I'm not sure where the disconnect is with you, but in case you haven't noticed, DL is recording some impressive profits (and has been for a while now post-merger) but is NOT reducing fares on many international routes. I'm pretty sure they can afford to compete with EK or suffer the consequences for their arrogance and intransigence. I could replace Delta with Air Canada and I'd be saying the same things.

so you're willing to fly any carrier for the sake of low prices, regardless of what's behind it ? if Air Koryo offers EK prices and EK quality, would you fly them too ?
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 80):
Individually, MAN can barely support HKG SIN and maybe DEL.

Don't criticize the legacies if you can't propose a better alternative.

You know as well as I do that it's about more than just the legacy carriers themselves. Remind me again, when Cathay started service to MAN?

Doing that early probably would have hurt ME3 growth there substantially. But the major global alliances and their major legacy carrier founders are all stuck on "capacity control".

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 84):
So USA obviously in the majority camp.

When the US actually cancels Open Skies, it'll be in the anti-ME3 camp. Till then, you're reaching...and quite far at that.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):
I have no sympathy for US/Canadian/Euro legacies when they are raking in the money and airfare isn't going down.

   Bang on. "Fuel surcharges" were justifiable when oil was $120 per barrel. Now? Not so much.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):
You don't like competition that results in cheaper fares for consumers?

He actually believes that protectionism will bring more European carriers to DTW. It's kinda hilarious. Hasn't gotten the "capacity control" memo.

And he thinks that keeping the ME3 at bay will preserve hubs. Somebody should ask the CVG and MEM how well that worked out.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):
I still like DL a lot and I think their international product (in coach and business) is the best of any US airline,

Agreed. The problem for the US3 is their lack of attention to Y pax on long-haul and the differential between the Asian (not just ME3) and US3 and EU3 is not moving much.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?

I never understand this kind of thinking. How many carriers have the ME3 "destroyed"? Stealing some Asia bound traffic and the odd fifth freedom flight may hurt US3 and EU3 profits. But existential threat? Hysterics. Plain and simple.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 98):
EK quality

I really doubt that quality part.....how many languages does the Air Koryo IFE offer?

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