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tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 98):
so you're willing to fly any carrier for the sake of low prices, regardless of what's behind it ? if Air Koryo offers EK prices and EK quality, would you fly them too ?

So I answer your questions and you don't answer mine? Again, to reiterate, I don't understand the contempt here given that DL and other legacy US airlines are profitable right now, and in some cases, are making record profits (http://news.delta.com/2014-10-16-Delta-Air-Lines-Announces-September-Quarter-Profit). How exactly is EK destroying the competition and under the circumstances that currently exist in the real world, how is competition a bad thing when everyone is profitable?

But let's assume for a second this wasn't a one way street and you actually answered my questions too. To answer yours, I'm not entirely sure Air Koryo is on the path to being equal to Emirates, but hypothetically if Air Koryo was identical to Emirates in product, quality, safety, and price, AND market conditions were as they currently are where all of the airlines on the route are profitable and doing well, then yes, I'd fly Air Koryo, because that assumes that they offer a better, cheaper product than their western competitors and all are doing well financially anyway.
Tom
 
ytz
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:12 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 100):
Air Koryo

Oh heavens...you'd fly through North Korea! Oh noooosss!

Now he'll say that you're a direct supporter of Kim Jong Un.

The hysterics in these parts....yet, quite a few people now take Aeroflot for a cheap flight, despite the political situation in Russia. I doubt a380787 woud be rushing to insist that Aeroflot be banished from the US.
 
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enzo011
Posts: 1861
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 81):
Competition requires parties competing fairly. And companies that are on equal footing, not some that are owned and operated by the richest oil kingdoms. And the ability for other airlines to easily open up routes with no restrictions. Otherwise there is no free market. And no true competition. Prices may be lower for a time, but once a big player gets enough of a market share to drive off others they can slowly raise prices. Call it the Wal-Mart-ing effect.

So competition is good, right? So what do you think about the JV on flights between the US and Europe? How do you feel about multiple airlines having no fear of antitrust prosecution and colluding with each other on price? So you went from 10 airlines competing to basically 3. Lets all root for for Delta though....they are behind the consumer!!

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?

Well, EY and QR will still be there so on routes where they compete there will be competition and low fares....at least we know that they are all state subsidized so if they are flying your route you will be okay....    
 
tomcbaker
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:25 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 102):
Well, EY and QR will still be there so on routes where they compete there will be competition and low fares....at least we know that they are all state subsidized so if they are flying your route you will be okay....    

Quite a few Americans use the state subsidy argument on here to justify their contempt for EK and others, but it's just a convenient scapegoat to mask their denial and passive-aggressive resentment that North American airlines in general and the big 3 legacy carriers specifically have nowhere near the level of service or as polished of a product at as good of a price as the ME3 and Asian carriers like CX and SQ. I think a lot of the haters on here don't fly internationally enough (or at all) to know how outclassed DL/AA/UA are or to care how much cheaper EK and others are. As I've already said, I actually like DL and other legacies (AA's transcon A321T from JFK-LAX is superb, as is B6's Mint, and I am a loyal, long time AS customer), but EK offering a superior product at a cheaper price is a wonderful, beautiful thing. Instead of bitching, moaning and making illogical arguments, why not own it and try to make your own products better.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 101):
Oh heavens...you'd fly through North Korea! Oh noooosss!

Yeah, this thread (and several others right now comparing US airlines to foreign) has the distinct feel of the McCarthy-era xenophobia in the US Congress. If I dare criticize a US airline, I'm either automatically wrong with no valid/legitimate counterargument or my words are taken out of context and I must be an enemy of freedom and democracy   

[Edited 2015-02-18 14:31:12]
Tom
 
tomcbaker
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 99):
Agreed. The problem for the US3 is their lack of attention to Y pax on long-haul and the differential between the Asian (not just ME3) and US3 and EU3 is not moving much.

Yes I agree; the biggest amusement I have on airliners.net is watching so many westerners (Americans - I think Canadians are more willing to admit AC sucks) react and get worked up over comparing "state subsidized' foreign airlines with US airlines. It seems to be an egregious offence on here to point out that airlines like EK, LH, SQ and CX have substantially better business AND economy/Y products than North American counterparts/competitors. I fly a mix of business and economy overseas and I know all too well how horrible BA's 763 flight is from LHR-BWI with the broken IFE and ratty interior, just like I know all too well how much better EK's A380 JFK-DXB is in coach than DL's 772 ATL-DXB. It is what it is and comparing it is fair because you never know how good/bad you have it until you do. Aiming for better service is never a bad thing, even if the comparison hurts the national ego a little.
Tom
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 94):

You do realize ch 11 is not a bailout right?

Its similar to liquidating a company, take all the planes and then legally setting up a new carrier (e.g LX)

Except without the formality of closing down the "old" company.
 
enzedder
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?

ME3 are not destroying any competion. at least tell me who they have destroyed yet? the ME3 are not the reasons for airlines to go bankrupt. there are plenty of other factors involved.

and if they really increased their prices (after destroying all their competion) some other airline from some other region will jump into the game. might be some airline from africa (eg ethopian) or TK from turkey. their will be always new competion growing from somewhere. with new ideas and innovation.

iz a changing world with new global traffic flows. adopt. no other choice.

cheers enzedder
 
ElPistolero
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 93):
And are you under the DELUSION that once ME3 destroys all competition, they would continue their low prices ?

Yes, very much so.

Prices go up? Other carriers enter. Its basic economics, not rocket science.

Aviation is a global marketplace, not some small isolated town. There are too many carriers with strong home markets that ME3 won't be able to touch no matter what they throw at them - the US carriers being prime examples.

All types of countries/airlines have all kinds of advantages and enough flexibility to jump in when theres an opportunity - just like EK did.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 81):
Competition requires parties competing fairly. And companies that are on equal footing, not some that are owned and operated by the richest oil kingdoms. And the ability for other airlines to easily open up routes with no restrictions. Otherwise there is no free market. And no true competition. Prices may be lower for a time, but once a big player gets enough of a market share to drive off others they can slowly raise prices. Call it the Wal-Mart-ing effect.

Predatory pricing legislation can take care of any concerns about 'fair competition'. It already exists and its already enforced when necessary. Companies will never be on an equal footing unless we have the exact same conditions everywhere in the world. Its a hypothetical state of being that doesn't exist. What we do have is a global mindset that encourages exploiting competitive advantages. Hence: outsourcing.

All I see here is travel between Italy and the US being outsourced to the UAE. Not convinced that's a bad thing; certainly not worse than US carriers sourcing goods and services from countries with low wages/lax labour protection.

[Edited 2015-02-18 15:16:44]
 
UALWN
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 79):
The Europeans thought the same way about places likes MAN, DUS, and ZRH. Not quite "Bob's Airport, North Dakota". But I doubt you would have ever found a European carrier who ever thought any of these cities could support an A380 service. How'd that work out for them?

Add my home airport, BCN, to that list. I surely never expected to see a daily A380 here... until EK came to town.
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afcjets
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:40 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
4x daily Emirates A380 service to JFK? Yup

Lol at first I read this as Emirates would have 4 A380s per day from JFK-MXP, but you mean four flights per day from JFK.

[Edited 2015-02-18 16:51:44]
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting jmdc861 (Reply 89):
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 86):
do have to say that Delta's product on the GEO route was not lousy. They were flying their Transcon/TATL-configured 757s from JFK, which are pretty nice.

Lets all remember that the quality of the product inflight is not measured by what goes on in front of the curtain, but rather what goes on and how people are treated behind the curtain.

I'd still maintain that it's not bad. Nose to tail AVOD, comfortable seats, and good inflight service.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
aajfksjubklyn
Posts: 458
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:37 am

Imo this won't last. The last airline I would check for a flight to MXP would be Emirates. I'm sure I am not alone
 
behramjee
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:21 am



Quoting a380787 (Reply 80):
Mr Armchair CEO, if you were BA what routes would you run out of MAN to Asia ? And with what plane? EK can support A380 only because they're fanning out connections all over Africa, ME, India, Asia, and A/NZ.

Individually, MAN can barely support HKG SIN and maybe DEL.

I have done a lot of research on the MAN market segment as I was involved in a project in 2010 for a friend and what you have said is a bit off the mark. Yes yields versus LHR are lower however the demand volume from MAN to USA/YYZ/Asia is definitely there. Please find below the top MAN long haul markets in 2014:

Asia:

DXB - 235K
ISB - 165K
HKG - 95K...this will grow a lot in 2015 with new CX 4 weekly nonstop flights !
BKK - 110K
SIN - 80K
PEK - 50K
PVG - 50K
LHE - 80K
DEL - 40K
BOM- 55K
JED - 50K
KUL - 40K
JNB - 40K

Others:

JFK - 135K
YYZ - 85K
EWR - 85K
ORD - 35K
LAX - 40K
SFO - 35K

[Edited 2015-02-18 23:22:25]
 
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Aquila3
Posts: 561
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 111):
Imo this won't last. The last airline I would check for a flight to MXP would be Emirates. I'm sure I am not alone

And I am sure a lot of people will disagree with you, as the loads of EK demostrates every day.
On the other hand, please explain me why should I choose say DL or AZ over EK, even in Y. If priced similarly (as it looks like from the previous posts) their product on the A380 is very competitive, to say the least. Unless you have "patriotic" reasons, that would be wery "thin" on this side of the pond, I can assure you.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
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enzo011
Posts: 1861
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 112):
Asia:


JNB - 40K

JNB, in Asia?  
 
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airbuseric
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:45 am

I won't check-in on their flight either. Why? From a principle. "They" come from the ME and try to catch the world in total with their money (oil). They damage healthy markets, undercut prices and destroy/hurt local based companies.

They operate staff from (mainly) poorer countries , against lower salaries. European companies cannot do this. And do we want this? Do we want our jobs in Italy, Europe ans US to be taken by Filipinos, Thai and Indians etc for that matter?

I will not support this airline, neither I support QR, which is quite similar and the state of Qatar is not "clean" with possible connections with e.g. IS (they now even get upset by Egypt attacking IS in Libya).

I mean, go figure. Get back to the principles of life. Don't get attracted by unhealthy low fares and all the bling bling... But have respect for what we have build up in our own regions.
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
Planesmart
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:59 am

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 84):
Based on forecast all three top aviation markets USA, China and India are in against camp.

So USA obviously in the majority camp.

Interesting to see you bundle the USA with India and China.

You are right on the money. Having experienced airlines from all three in the last five years, I understand why they advocate for, and need protection for themselves, rather than choice for customers.

Where do airline passengers, with real global experience of long distance international travel, rate the international airlines of those three countries in terms of consistency, product, service, and price?
 
Planesmart
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:01 am

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):
Most who are quick to criticize EK have never flown on them before, have never flown on the A380 before, and/or do not fly regularly on international long-haul (TATL, North America-ME/Australia, etc) routes.

Isn't that just the truth.
 
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Aquila3
Posts: 561
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 115):
I won't check-in on their flight either. Why? From a principle.

I respect your principles. They are very high and classy. I even partially agree if you speak about QR.
But what I mean that the very most of the flying people either are so cynic that they don't care, or they are not so classy and have bigger concerns to care about, so I believe EK, as usual will succed.
BTW I work on IT , and nobody went so crazy when all our jobs (and industry alltogether) went over there in the East.
I suppose you use only smart phones and also wear clothes manufactured strictly in the West.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
Planesmart
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:18 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 115):
They damage healthy markets, undercut prices and destroy/hurt local based companies
Quoting airbuseric (Reply 115):
Don't get attracted by unhealthy low fares and all the bling bling... But have respect for what we have build up in our own regions.

Where did your computer or tablet come from? You surely don't have a TV, any appliance, or vehicle transport?

Use the above as guiding principles by all means, but be 100% consistent at the monastery or commune.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting planesmart (Reply 119):

You can avoid flying ME3 and still get to where you need to be.

Unless you are a hermit living off trash you can't live without made in China goods.

Major difference.

And nobody here is saying EK has a terrible product, the problem is the level playing field.

ME3 are not entitled to anything and they need to learn the hard way. They need to stop complaining about not being given enough capacity. I support REDUCING capacity every time they complain.
 
UALWN
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 120):
You can avoid flying ME3 and still get to where you need to be.

Unless you are a hermit living off trash you can't live without made in China goods.

Major difference.

So you are saying that it's OK to have principles, except when they bite you in the hind parts. It's OK to boycott EK, QR and EY based on principle, because you can still fly LH or whatever. But then you conveniently forget about your principles when it comes to buying a new phone, because it's just too hard otherwise. This is called hypocrisy.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:31 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 105):
Its similar to liquidating a company, take all the planes and then legally setting up a new carrier (e.g LX)

It is absolutely nothing of the sort.  
Flying around India
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5698
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:52 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
Can they start flying Europe Anywhere-US tomorrow?

No, there is an approval process, the US can block 5th freedom flights if they feel there is a sound reasoning. Although I'd not be able to tell you what their grounds for refusal would/could be. EK had to apply for US permission for each different route they want to fly.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
HAM was a mess for them. I wouldn't be surprised if MXP is too

MXP has some premium demand, but unless I was mis-informed, it it seasonal service for many MXP routes. IIRC, there has been many years when service between Milan & New York operated only seasonally.

Could it be possible EK was granted this authority when there was a lull of carriers on this route, with EK's promise of year around service seemed to be a fix to the lack of strong off season flights. I know EK was granted 5th freedom rights from HAM because of the lack of competition. I'm surprised there is no MAN-LAX for example.

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 44):
It is up to Italy to fix this issue

There is nothing to fix, it's not broken. Nothing Illegal, Immoral or Fattening about this, well maybe fattening if you fly J or F.

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 44):
EK cannot bend every rule to their advantage. 5th freedom made sense when planes couldn't fly long distances and flights originating from remote parts couldn't fill seats.

EK can't bend any rule, for any reason, there is nothing going on here that doesn't happen all over the world, every single day, not only legally, but with everones blessing as well. Right or wrong to anyone, it is, what it is.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 58):
So now I will ask you...how did EK get the 5th freedom rights to fly MXP-JFK and as per my original post, do they have the rights to fly Europe-US from any port?

I know I'm not "you", but EK asked the EU & the US, they both said ok, and EK said, cool thanks, we'll get right on that!

For each city pair they would want to connect between the EU & US would have to go through the same process. I do not believe is is just a formality, I am sure there are reasons the US could say no.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 60):
What 5th flight? American carriers barely do it. UA HKG-SGN and RUH-DOH what else?

It seems American carriers have gone away from 5th freedom routes (ie UA & DL downsizing NRT) but instead are trending towards operating a seperate aircraft to each destination form the home turf (ie .. SFO-CTU or SEA-HKG)

Where certain foreign carriers have been able to exploit markets, (ie ... where a national carrier is losing, or has lost their credibility with their flying public, or has ceased operations) It is far more important for the respective country to retain as much air service as they can for some similance economic stability.

By granting routes to EK or ?? carrier, that allows these financially challenged countries with weaker economies to retain service to big hub cities (ie ... JFK) on a carrier with a pretty decent reputaion with the public.

Further more, Emirates is becoming a more common name to know with people here in the USA. EK branding department is doing their job, many times watching formula racing, golf & soccar I see Emirates in large print.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 65):
i thought 5th freedom only means carrying local traffic between 2 international points that doesn't touch the home country, regardless of gauge

That seems like it, in a nutshell.

Quoting ASA (Reply 71):
Wait! only ONE of the flights go via MXP ... am I right? The other three are still nonstop JFK-DXB

You are 100% correct, I doubt 4 A380s a day would fill up, even oif the fare was $400.00 r/t, then folks would be starting all their European holidays in Italy, I'd likely not leave, unless it were to go to Greece & some smaller islands I've been invited to visit one day.

Quoting hohd (Reply 72):
Kuwait airways has been offering service for decades on JFK-LHR and AI was too, no is upset about that
Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):
This was a prevalent rumor within both DL and AS pilot groups, and that I can speak to from experience. A few years ago when AS cemented their partnership with EK, they were still fairly close to DL. AS has a history of being an independent airline that has resisted calls from others (especially DL) for increasingly closer partnership. I sincerely doubt the AS-EK partnership had much to do with DL's current siege of SEA but it did go some way towards alienating DL, who saw it as a slap in the face (or, as some DL pilots said to me verbatim, as 'cheating' or having an affair with the enemy).

OK, so you've heard this then, I agree with you that AS has always ensured their dance card was filled, that has been part of their success.

It also chould not have come as a shock to DL that AS was going to remain on course to be the "beck & call girl" of the SEA experience for most of the International cariers flying into SEA.

This deal was different, there was way more pressure, riding on, this particular one than say the link with BA, FI, QF or the rest. AS hooking up EK in SEA for one flight to DXB really isn't a biggie, IMO. I think this may very well reflect what feelings towards EK from DL may have brewing back then, it's just now public knowledge.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 99):
Bang on. "Fuel surcharges" were justifiable when oil was $120 per barrel. Now? Not so much.

Those fuel srcharges were mandated by law to help carriers offset skyrocketing fuel expenses, nothing more. They were never intended for increasing fleet size or updating AVOD or refurbishing aircraft. IMO, the airlines are now collecting monies no longer warranted by the droip in fuel prices & should cease & decist immediately. Surely someone, somewhere was smart enough to put in a contingency that deals with lower fuel prices

Quoting YTZ (Reply 99):
The problem for the US3 is their lack of attention to Y pax on long-haul

Agreed, the dismissal by many carriers that Y passengers no longer matter, is social suicide.
.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 101):
quite a few people now take Aeroflot for a cheap flight

OK, one time, never again but I got a Russian type and got to see the older Moscow airport. April 1994 CDG-SVO-NRT

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 110):
'd still maintain that it's not bad.

I think the issue is, that people are looking for better than "it's not bad"

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 92):
Most who are quick to criticize EK have never flown on them before, have never flown on the A380 before,

I've done neither, I will this summer, killing both with one stone, but I must say I'm really not looking forward to the boarding & unloading of nearly 500 people all at once. I prefer the smaller aircraft for the fewer people onboeard.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 103):
Yeah, this thread (and several others right now comparing US airlines to foreign) has the distinct feel of the McCarthy-era xenophobia in the US Congress. If I dare criticize a US airline, I'm either automatically wrong with no valid/legitimate counterargument or my words are taken out of context and I must be an enemy of freedom and democracy

Welcome to A.net & consider yourself indoctrinated, unfortunately most people reach their own level of intollerance & then remain there. There are some refreshing exceptions which makes it almost worth it.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 115):
They operate staff from (mainly) poorer countries , against lower salaries. European companies cannot do this. And do we want this? Do we want our jobs in Italy, Europe ans US to be taken by Filipinos, Thai and Indians etc for that matter?

A growing issue in all industries where a few at the top make their billions on the backs of billions of peasants from places where there is little no zero local opportunities, so millions of these poor people go into hard working jobs a long ways from home, with little to life fofr themselves so they can send their meager pay checks to their families back home, a whole region of underpaid, overworked & mostly disrespected hard workers.

Quoting planesmart (Reply 119):
Where did your computer or tablet come from? You surely don't have a TV, any appliance, or vehicle transport?
Quoting planesmart (Reply 119):
Use the above as guiding principles by all means, but be 100% consistent at the monastery or commune

Have you ever heard of the term "think globally but act locally" if not, then the concept may not resinate with you as it does with others. It means that in order to have a healthy gobal economy, we must ensure that our local economies thrive as well.

It also means if you have a conscious, you ensure that the dollars you spend are with companies that have good human rights records, that your money is not being used to support something that you do not agree with, directly or even indirectly, that is the well educated, individual who puts the time into being a good corporate citizen.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 115):
I will not support this airline, neither I support QR, which is quite similar and the state of Qatar is not "clean" with possible connections with e.g. IS (they now even get upset by Egypt attacking IS in Libya)

I'll be doing some more reading on this subject, not that I'm likely going to be flying QR anytime.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 115):
I mean, go figure. Get back to the principles of life. Don't get attracted by unhealthy low fares and all the bling bling... But have respect for what we have build up in our own regions.

This is a rapidly disappearing value, it's a real shame isn't it?

Your words should spark some into putting a little thought into how they spend their money. I do not EVER patronize Chick fil A, I like the basic chicken sandwich (in small doses) but I disagree with the politics of the homophobic right wing Christian nut family who own it.

Chick fil A donates money to cause I loathe. Will they suffer because I don't buy a chicken sandwich? No. But I'm not helping the cause even $1 worth. We all must be responsible for our actions, despite how hard we all try to obsolve ourselves of any responsibility for anything, anyone can effecdt change, many people can do even more.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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ytz
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RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 120):
I support REDUCING capacity every time they complain.

I suppose, you'd be okay applying the same principle over a longer timeframe to remedy this:

Quoting thekorean (Reply 120):

Unless you are a hermit living off trash you can't live without made in China goods.

And yes, you can avoid buying a lot of Chinese goods. Takes more effort. Seems to me that the strength of some peoples' principles are directly proportional to the level of effort involved.

And there's zero effort to take away choice from someone else. Hence, some of the discussion here.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8268
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:38 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 120):
ME3 are not entitled to anything and they need to learn the hard way. They need to stop complaining about not being given enough capacity. I support REDUCING capacity every time they complain.

Some countries are already doing that.

EK sold tickets in Philippines even before route extension is approved. CAA fined for sold tickets and also rejected third frequency.

UAE has 4 separate ASAs with India When RAK Airways (RAK) shutdown, Air Arabia (Sharjah) wanted to use RAK's ASA of 14,000/week. India said take a hike. India also said no more seats to both Dubai and Qatar.

They are just venting against US because no one in third world caring for them.
All posts are just opinions.
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 120):
the problem is the level playing field.

Which world are you living in? In a globalized world with different currencies, different laws etc. there NEVER will be a level playing field. There is no level playing field even between the EU and USA with all the subsidy spats that have happened between the two for a variety of reasons in the past and will continue to happen in future.

http://seattletimes.com/html/busines.../2012672849_apeuwtoplanefight.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...imum-tariff-export-tax-tax-subsidy

In fact the labor laws are also different, with France in particular being a heaven to be working in according to what i hear from others. In spite of all this airlines on either side of the pond are not complaining because things are working out for them right now and they are making money. So, what level playing field are you talking about? let's not live under the illusion that there is a level playing field out there. There is another thread in a.net going on about China & Russia attempting to build a wide body plane together; if that is a success you can bet that Boeing & Airbus are going to start complaining to China about an unfair playing field and subisidies.
 
FltAdmiralRitt
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:57 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:39 pm

My foolish question: Can the A380 with a reduced passenger capacity, fly non-stop say
from Sydney to say, Paris.

As passenger would it not be preferable to skip this Stop at Dubai and Get to your destination
1 hour earlier.
 
User avatar
thekorean
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:05 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:18 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 121):

Not really.
Not only that but at least with China and India there is give and take relationship. ME3 countries have nothing to offer.


[quote=YTZ,reply=124][/qu ote]

You will never find any electronics that has no components from China.

Shoes and clothes? If not China then Bengladesh which is the same deal if not worse.

Reducing rights was a joke really. But seriously airline capacity is a leverage and countries rightfully so, offer it when they can get back something in return. UAE can offer nothing.

[Edited 2015-02-19 09:22:41]
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 128):
Not only that but at least with China and India there is give and take relationship.

Would you say that to all the American IT workers and call centre workers who've either lost their jobs or had their wages depressed by an influx from India or manufacturing workers from China. Heck, the US basically gave up their textile industry to South Asia. Do those workers matter less? Can't argue for protection of just one sector of the economy....

Quoting thekorean (Reply 128):
Shoes and clothes? If not China then Bengladesh which is the same deal if not worse.

Plenty of ethical clothing retailers. Especially online.

Forget clothing. How often do you buy ethical chocolate and coffee? What percentage of your produce comes from farmer's markets? That's all pretty easy.

It's easy to be moral with other people's time and money. Not so much with your own.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 128):
UAE can offer nothing.

UAE offers nothing to Koreans who have no interest in the region. Quite a different issue if you're American with massive strategic interests in the region. You keep ignoring that bit. Do you really think that the President of the United States is some avfan whose only priority is pleasing a.netters?
 
User avatar
thekorean
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:05 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 129):

My position as American is that US should just stay out if Middle East conflict so...
UAE needs American government in that regard more so anyway so they still do not have the leverage.


There are no ethical clothing companies, those who says they are are liars.


And I do buy homegrown organic foods.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5079
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 123):
For each city pair they would want to connect between the EU & US would have to go through the same process. I do not believe is is just a formality, I am sure there are reasons the US could say no.

It is , basically, a formality. The ONLY reason the USA could not approve a proposed EK fifth freedom route is that such route lies outside what is permitted by the UAE - USA bilateral agreement, unless the USA cancels the agreement.
There can of course be disagreement over the implementation of the agreement, but that is a diplomatic issue, usually resolve behind closed doors.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 120):
You can avoid flying ME3 and still get to where you need to be.

Strange concept obviously to you. I'm the customer. I'm paying. I'm choosing.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 123):
Have you ever heard of the term "think globally but act locally" if not, then the concept may not resinate with you as it does with others. It means that in order to have a healthy gobal economy, we must ensure that our local economies thrive as well.

Who hasn't. I have always supported the start-up, the under dog, especially where pitched against a giant bully. But when you tell me how I can spend my dollars, and what decisions I can / cannot make by reducing or capping choices, in the name of bolstering corporate profits, that has nothing do to with thinking locally. The US3 are NOT local companies.

I look forward to the USA introducing rules that force the US3 to retreat whenever new local airlines offer the same routes, or at least have caps on capacity and minimum prices to protect the locals.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 123):
It also means if you have a conscious, you ensure that the dollars you spend are with companies that have good human rights records, that your money is not being used to support something that you do not agree with, directly or even indirectly, that is the well educated, individual who puts the time into being a good corporate citizen.

So you are buying no products made in, or with components from China, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Thailand..... Not doing business with American companies avoiding tax by trading through the Caymans, Channel Islands, Eire, Singapore, etc. Not dealing with American companies employing illegal immigrants, with pay and working conditions at or below the minimum....
 
ASA
Posts: 1118
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 130):
My position as American is that US should just stay out if Middle East conflict so...
UAE needs American government in that regard more so anyway so they still do not have the leverage.

Are you for real? "Should just stay out" ... is that how US foreign policy works? I'm sure you were not asleep for the last 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years. Enough water has gone down the bridge ... there is no "staying out" ... and hence a massive security dependence on Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. Without Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait ... US's middle plans will fold overnight. Similarly, UK has 'interests' in Oman and Bahrain, and France in UAE and Djibouti. So they DO have leverage ... no matter what you claim. Even the current Open Skies Agreement hasn't just appeared out of thin air ... nor the planned CBP pre-clearance stations in those countries.

For the average consumers in the United States like myself: they OFFER global connectivity and reliable travel to many parts of the globe with very nice service, safe airplanes (made in the countries mentioned in the last paragraph) - at good prices. For millions of US citizens - that is a net gain.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 127):
As passenger would it not be preferable to skip this Stop at Dubai and Get to your destination 1 hour earlier.

That's a 21 hr flight. I doubt there's many pax (especially in Y) who will put up with that long of a direct flight. IST-SYD (if it ever happens) at 18 hrs may be about the limit.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 130):
My position as American is that US should just stay out if Middle East conflict so...

Your position doesn't matter. Neither does mine. The position of the US government does. They see interests in the region. And that's what determines their policy. They'll weigh their strategic interests and aviation interests and US credibility (if they backtrack on a signed agreement) and come up with an outcome.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 130):
There are no ethical clothing companies, those who says they are are liars.

Essentially, when you can't dbate you're just going to say it's a lie? Like I said, it's very easy to be ethical with other people's time and money. When it's your own? Not so much. Then there's all kinds of excuses about it not being possible (Chinese electronics) or a "lie" (ethically sourced clothing).

Lucky for you, I actually occassionally do buy ethical clothing. So I'd like to learn more about your assertions. You're the one making the assertion. Prove it. Show me irrefutable data that the Ethical Fashion Forum or Sedex audits are (in your words) "lies". That's quite the assertion. It's also libel against some publicly traded companies. You ever thought of calling the SEC and letting them know that these companies are lying to the public and their shareholders? Surely, if you know they are "lies" and you are genuinely concerned about these workers, you'd inform the authorities no?

Quoting thekorean (Reply 130):
And I do buy homegrown organic foods.

Organic isn't the same as ethical sourcing. You knew that right? What percentage wasn't grown using cheap labour? If you so much as source an orange from Florida, you should be concerned about exploited labour. And surely you care about those workers just as much as you do about the construction workers building DXB and AUH right?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3496
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 114):
JNB, in Asia?

I guess the Chinese have taken over South Africa, too... just like the rest of the continent...

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 123):
Those fuel srcharges were mandated by law to help carriers offset skyrocketing fuel expenses, nothing more.

I don't believe they were "mandated"; I would agree that they were permitted.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 94):
The people who have come to accept that Emirates and their like bring superior product at a competitive price comparative to their own nation's carriers

EK has a very extensive and effective advertising campaign, trying to convince everyone of their "superior product". I think they may have some superiority in Business, but their Coach is no better - and, in some ways worse - than the competition. As far as the 380 goes, I was excited when I was about to fly it or the first time; I enjoyed the smoothness of the flight - it just seems to glide up and down - but I felt like I was flying in a crowded barn. Once the novelty wore off, I swore I would avoid it whenever there was an alternative... and I have. And don't tell me I "never fly internationally"; I fly more than 200,000 miles internationally every year.

I do know some people love the flying barn... but I guess that is why they make both chocolate and vanilla...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 132):
Strange concept obviously to you. I'm the customer. I'm paying. I'm choosing.

He insists that the choice should be taken away from you by government fiat, since it's in your best interest to pay more. He's determined that.

Obviously, he doesn't travel much to any part of the world that's two stop or inaccessible or expensive on the US3/EU3. So what does he care? He's decided to be ethical (just in time to protect DL) ... with your time and money.

Wonder which fence he was sitting on last year when DL was arguing that the Japanese should open up more.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:45 pm

I don't get why on MXP-JFK. I would have thought, they'd go A380 on BOS first. But guess the demand is there....
 
tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:56 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 136):
but their Coach is no better - and, in some ways worse - than the competition.

Highly subjective; I strongly prefer EK coach to just about any other international long haul coach product I've seen so far, especially to DXB. And I also prefer the A380, even though it has a lot of people on board. I like the extra room (I felt less cramped rather than more cramped), I like the EK service and menus and I feel that EK FA's are friendlier than most of the competition, having flown to DXB also on Delta, BA (via LHR) and KLM (via AMS) on multiple occasions. I also LOVE EK's in flight entertainment; ICE has won awards and in my experience it's far superior to anything DL, BA or KLM offer, and it's offered in coach and business.
Tom
 
Andy33
Posts: 2563
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:06 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 127):
My foolish question: Can the A380 with a reduced passenger capacity, fly non-stop say
from Sydney to say, Paris.

Probably. Qantas once did a non-stop flight from LHR to SYD using a 744 - purely as a publicity stunt and not as a scheduled service, and BA took a 772-ER non-stop from BRU to MEL with 60 passengers on a UK government charter.
Whether the number of people able to be carried would cover the operating costs is another question.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3496
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 139):
Highly subjective; I strongly prefer EK coach to just about any other international long haul coach product I've seen so far, especially to DXB. And I also prefer the A380, even though it has a lot of people on board. I like the extra room (I felt less cramped rather than more cramped), I like the EK service and menus and I feel that EK FA's are friendlier than most of the competition, having flown to DXB also on Delta, BA (via LHR) and KLM (via AMS) on multiple occasions. I also LOVE EK's in flight entertainment; ICE has won awards and in my experience it's far superior to anything DL, BA or KLM offer, and it's offered in coach and business.

Definitely - it is all subjective. Substitute "EY" for "EK", and I would agree with you, but I have not been particularly impressed with EK. I didn't find it to be any less cramped; the menu's similar; and the FA's sometimes better than, sometimes equal to, and sometimes less helpful than other airlines. And the 380... it still just feels like a barn to me (and I never liked to fly a 747 in Coach for the same reason). I also must admit that I generally do not fly in Coach, so I might be prejudiced by my expectations.

I won't say much about the IFE - I try to sleep on overseas flights - but overall, I can't say I am a big fan of EK. Their advertising campaign, however, has obviously been successful; people who have never flown before hold them up as the epitome of luxurious flying.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 141):
I won't say much about the IFE - I try to sleep on overseas flights - but overall, I can't say I am a big fan of EK. Their advertising campaign, however, has obviously been successful; people who have never flown before hold them up as the epitome of luxurious flying.

I think at least part of it is a combination of undoubtedly successful advertising as well as very cheap fares on some routes. It comes and goes and isn't universal or consistent, but there have been many times over the last 3 years when I've flown from North America to either the ME or Africa and EK was anywhere from 20%-50% cheaper than competitors for coach and also significantly less for business. I know they're also extremely popular for connections to southern Asia (India in particular) because DXB is not too far off the direct route from North America and I know I prefer EK service to what I've had in the two time I've flown on Air India.

[Edited 2015-02-19 13:34:02]
Tom
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 127):
My foolish question: Can the A380 with a reduced passenger capacity, fly non-stop say
from Sydney to say, Paris.

A Quantas 747-400 VH-OJA did a 20 hour non-stop delivery run from LHR to SYD. So, I am darn sure an A 380 could also do it. But, the biggest question is whether an airline could make money with the drastically reduced payload (passenger + cargo)? If the airlines could indeed make a lot of money (more money than with filling it up with passengers + cargo and offering a 1 stop service) that way then we wouldn't have the ME3 to begin with and most definitely wouldn't having these ME3 related threads  .
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 123):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
Can they start flying Europe Anywhere-US tomorrow?

No, there is an approval process, the US can block 5th freedom flights if they feel there is a sound reasoning. Although I'd not be able to tell you what their grounds for refusal would/could be. EK had to apply for US permission for each different route they want to fly.

I don't think that's correct. US-UAE is Open Skies which grants US and UAE carriers unrestricted 5th freedom rights. The only governments that could limit 5th freedom services would be 3rd countries where the UAE does not have the equivalent of an Open Skies bilateral, for example virtually all countries in Europe.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3496
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:52 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 142):
I prefer EK service to what I've had in the two time I've flown on Air India.

I think that goes without saying!
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 136):
but their Coach is no better

Is this not relative, route by route? Sure EK has 17" wide seats on their 777s. But they tend to offer a little more pitch than the competition. And most of their North American routes get an A380 with 18" wide seats and 32-34" pitch. This was comparable to the US3 and EU3 until recently, but they've all started migrating to 17/31 even for long-haul. This only accentuates the difference between EK and the legacies here.

EY and QR don't have much of a difference with Western legacies when it comes to hard product. Their catering and IFE and (in some cases) luggage allowances are the differentiators. Nothing the legacies could not easily overcome.

I'd have preferred an Air Canada 777 until recently. But now they are moving to the 77H slaveship configuration. A concrete example of exactly why the ME3 (and specifically EK) are needed to keep this ever oligopolistic market honest.

[Edited 2015-02-19 14:04:15]
 
User avatar
thekorean
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:05 pm

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 146):

Legacies can't fire flight attendants for being too old and being fat.

Granted Easi Asian carriers also benefit from more lax labor regulations to be fair.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 147):
Granted Easi Asian carriers also benefit from more lax labor regulations to be fair.

Exactly my point. If labour standards are going to start being the bar, the US and EU will be left trading with each other and the airlines only flying back and forth between those countries.
 
tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: Emirates To Start A380 Service On MXP-JFK

Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 146):
I'd have preferred an Air Canada 777 until recently. But now they are moving to the 77H slaveship configuration. A concrete example of exactly why the ME3 (and specifically EK) are needed to keep this ever oligopolistic market honest.

   Careful, some people on here will start pulling out the state subsidy cry-me-a-river speech and/or somehow work EK into 9/11. Agree entirely though - AC has been going downhill for a while in my opinion and I really don't like rouge. Great idea and I applaud AC's competitive nature here but I'd still like the option of not flying it rather than having it take over all service on certain routes.
Tom

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