WN 2/19 Schedule Extension Through 10/30/15

RL757PVD · Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 49):
They also had no LFC competition.

It basically would come down to who would blink first. The only reason WN does what they do in BOS is to keep a competitor from becoming sucessful, neither BOS or IND, and even BNA really are critical WN stations since they have migrated to more of the hub model. While B6 doesnt have the resources to do all at once, they can probably tolerate the loses to pluck one market at a time, unless WN is motivated enough to tolerate prolonged losses to spite B6.

I find it funny that WN got the wallmart reputation for their passengers, when now as of late, between buying FL and their Wright Amendment antics with DL, they are even more like Wal-Mart with their anti-competitive tactics.

raddek · Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 37):
If B6 had the money and the airplanes they could add IND CMH and BNA to send WN packing and retreating to core routes.

hmmm....I really don't see WN packing up and leaving. WN has the network across the whole country and B6 does not.

WN does indeed have the O&D and connections in CMH and IND and BNA, B6 does not, they would rely on O&D
from both sides. WN added that IND-BOS route to grow IND and offer more flights. FL ran that flight for a short while
back in 2009 I believe, and I think LGA was a train wreck back then too for FL. It is nice to see WN building IND
and rounding it out a little more. Time will tell how well the routes do in the long run.

Cubsrule · Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:50 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 50):
The only reason WN does what they do in BOS is to keep a competitor from becoming sucessful, neither BOS or IND, and even BNA really are critical WN stations since they have migrated to more of the hub model.

I think you'd be surprised by the number of connects (mostly to Texas and the west coast) on BNA-BOS.

rtalk25 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 50):
The only reason WN does what they do in BOS is to keep a competitor from becoming sucessful,

I wouldn't be surprised if in two years (perhaps if a pro business politician wins Presidency) if WN makes a bid to buy up B6 and the two agree, and the claims will be that it's good for consumers in Boston, New York and Fort Lauderdale with enhanced networks and domestic coverage, like how it said positives were for Atlanta.

But in the short term, I think it'd be dicey for B6 to compete against WN for the smaller midwest markets out of BOS. There's only so much stimulation and overall market in these markets.

There is also theory not to corner oneself and put all resources into one market, like how the old Frontier was in DEN. For B6, I think it makes sense to launch BOS-MSP soon, and BOS-ATL but after that, I'm not sure of other domestic business market connects ex BOS.

[Edited 2015-02-19 07:21:53]

mtnwest1979 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 35):
I checked the route map and then tried to make a booking and found this.

Published scheduled service between (Dayton - DAY) and (Des Moines - DSM) does not begin until 08/09/2015. Please select an alternate date or choose another origination/destination. Some flights may only operate on specific days of the week. View Schedules Online for additional flight information. (SW100101-SaRuZSuFR7qfUMnpm2Ng-w)

Needless to say, I'm excited, it makes visiting friends and family easier.

Bubble burst: I checked weekday and Saturday in October, and no service exists.

RL757PVD · Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 53):
if WN makes a bid to buy up B6 and the two agree

If that happens, im buying my own aircraft. WN + FL was bad enough for the consumer. That would be like Walmart buying Target.

Quoting raddek (Reply 51):
hmmm....I really don't see WN packing up and leaving. WN has the network across the whole country and B6 does not.

Not saying WN would leave, but they would be forced to retreat to WN strongholds only like BWI, MDW, DEN, HOU, and maybe still BNA.

Abeam79 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:58 pm

WN will not have the resources to do much in the long term in BOS. B6 has dozens of aircraft coming in every year, and alot of interline/codeshare connections in Boston. They have a much loyal passenger base in BOS. So the little midwest nit picking WN is doing is just serving ones respective resources.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 44):
This may cause JetBlue to pack up on their ORD-SJU flight. I don't think the loads and yields have been any good for them. Southwest may be the final nail in the coffin.

Keep dreaming, B6 has been doing good on ORD-SJU and with the focus city in SJU WN is not able to hold its own. Let me be clear, the WN of years ago where it can pull off agressive market intro's is not what it used to be and can't muster that these days with the looming cost surge at WN. As for WN trying to aquire B6, Hayes and their BOD will not have it if they can. They veered them away before they merged with FL, they will do it again. WN will have to just deal with trying to make a name into new markets on their own. The "just merge/acquire another carrier" to get into markets will not work. They will be seeing a struggle in years to come. IF they didn't have their heads in the sand years ago with getting into int'l and northeast markets when they should, they wouldn't be in this bind.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 44):

The loads are 90+%--the fare is horrible though. They'd still do better than WN; WN's results to SJU are rough. And B6 would get bag fee revenue duck

SANFan · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:03 pm

The schedules are open now thru Oct 30 but there is no blog or press release with any kind of summary or recap.

For anybody interested in what's new, have at it!

https://www.southwest.com/flight/request-schedule.html

Enjoy!

bb

[Edited 2015-02-19 08:08:34]

MIflyer12 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:06 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 56):
WN will not have the resources to do much in the long term in BOS. B6 has dozens of aircraft coming in every year, and alot of interline/codeshare connections in Boston.

Don't be silly. Compare present fleet counts and aircraft on order.

Cubsrule · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 56):
Keep dreaming, B6 has been doing good on ORD-SJU and with the focus city in SJU WN is not able to hold its own.

WN is far better-equipped than B6 to fight a war of attrition if necessary. Don't be silly. ORD-SJU is of next to no strategic importance for B6.

airliner371 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:24 pm

CMH is getting a lot of love lately. If WN can get more slots at LGA, I could see them getting CHM and IND just like BOS and DCA.

DCA also getting one FLLmflight from a one flight decrease to DAL.

mtnwest1979 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 60):
DCA also getting one FLLmflight from a one flight decrease to DAL

Actually from moving a DCA-RSW over to FLL.

airliner371 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:31 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 61):

You are correct. That is an Air21 slot that can be used for either RSW, FLL or PBI. Looks like they're having it changed to FLL, no surprise there, I've been calling for this for a long time.

That said I also see a one flight decrease in DCA-DAL. When I get to a computer, I'll examine the entire schedule for where that slot is going to be used.

asteriskceo · Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:33 pm

More Orange County love. SNA-PDX added.

SANFan · Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:00 pm

There's a blog post now about the sked extension:
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/august-...ule-announced-see-the-changes-now/

As has happened before, it says there's a summary of changes but I see a link to it...

bb

PVD757 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:12 pm

I'm not seeing any nonstop BOS-MCO or BOS-RSW in the August through October schedules. Aren't these winter seasonal Saturday only flights already?

RL757PVD · Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 65):
BOS-RSW in the August through October schedules. Aren't these winter seasonal Saturday only flights already?

I know they did RSW before, and I think MCO too picked up last year with the FL changeover.

wnflyguy · Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:24 pm

Not sure if I'm doing the math right .
But depending on MX requirements this seasonal shift should free up about 11 to 12 aircraft for OCTOBER.

New international destination is still rumored to be announced tonight in BWI.

Flyguy

mtnwest1979 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 67):
New international destination is still rumored to be announced tonight in BWI.

I still like BZE MTY or PTY

airliner371 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:23 pm

In the blog post, they mention addition schedule changes from now to the next extension in May. So there will be changes.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 67):
But depending on MX requirements this seasonal shift should free up about 11 to 12 aircraft for OCTOBER.

Remember Houston international flying begins October 15th I think. So that will be added at some point.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 67):
New international destination is still rumored to be announced tonight in BWI.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 62):
That said I also see a one flight decrease in DCA-DAL. When I get to a computer, I'll examine the entire schedule for where that slot is going to be used.

Having now looked into this, I see that DCA-MCI will be going from 1 to 2 times daily.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 68):
I still like BZE MTY or PTY

BZE was already announced so I'm glad you like it!

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 56):
So the little midwest nit picking WN is doing is just serving ones respective resources.

There are so many things wrong with this, I won't even get started.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 53):
I wouldn't be surprised if in two years (perhaps if a pro business politician wins Presidency) if WN makes a bid to buy up B6 and the two agree

I wouldn't be surprised if WN goes after B6 either.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 50):
even BNA really are critical WN stations since they have migrated to more of the hub model.

I'm not getting into Hubs and WN but BNA is a very important station for WN.

Quoting enilria (Reply 47):
WN running from a fight with F9? I'll file that under "that will be the day". Probably just seasonality...

It's one of 5 frequencies, certainly not ground breaking and probably even seasonal.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 44):
WN's results to SJU are rough

I'd love to see your source. Because if you're going to say something like this, you almost certainly have a source, right?

[Edited 2015-02-19 11:36:01]

RL757PVD · Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:35 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 69):
I'm not getting into Hubs and WN but BNA is a very important station for WN.

BNA i'll give you as an exception to the rule, but IND and CMH are blocks at B6 and nothing else.

czek6 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 68):
I still like BZE MTY or PTY

BZE was already announced so I'm glad you like it!

HOU-BZE was annouced last December...so I gues they could annouce additional service from BWI, but is that really 'party' worthy? I'm still waiting to see BWI-MEX...and waiting...

But as long as we're having fun, I'll throw BWI-SAL into the mix.

enilria · Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:53 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 62):
You are correct. That is an Air21 slot that can be used for either RSW, FLL or PBI. Looks like they're having it changed to FLL, no surprise there, I've been calling for this for a long time.

I thought that was super-odd. Now i see why.

Actually, though, it makes zero sense that FLL is an Air21 slot. There's no competition to FLL? LOL. Typical...

[Edited 2015-02-19 11:55:20]

SANFan · Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:30 pm

The summary-link -- for what it's worth -- is now active in the blog:
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/august-...ule-announced-see-the-changes-now/

bb

airliner371 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:36 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 73):

The summary-link -- for what it's worth -- is now active in the blog:
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/august-...ule-announced-see-the-changes-now/

Your link doesn't seem to work. This one should...
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/wp-cont...t/uploads/2015/02/this-summary.pdf

jetbluefan1 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 70):
BNA i'll give you as an exception to the rule, but IND and CMH are blocks at B6 and nothing else.

Agreed.

Interestingly, though, WN is discontinuing FLL-PIT/RDU, where B6 is the only other competitor (to my knowledge).

rtalk25 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 75):
Agreed.

Interestingly, though, WN is discontinuing FLL-PIT/RDU, where B6 is the only other competitor (to my knowledge).

Good observation although WN might be making them seasonal. B6 will fly to FLL year-round. And, AA flies to MIA of course. WN made PHL-FLL/PBI seasonal last year as well. PHL-RSW was made "seasonal" but it didn't actually return this Winter at all. On a sidebar - oddly Frontier didn't pick up that route either in it's PHL-Florida foray.

I also think that WN added CMH-BOS and IND-BOS as focus city building strategy at those airports (and not directly aimed at B6), even though WN is flying early morning departures out of BOS. But that might be necessary to make the flights work, as providing connecting passengers beyond CMH/IND helps fill planes more reliably.

As for B6, I think it concedes to reality that it can't be everything to BOS, so it has to be choosy. It flies BOS-ORD only 3x daily and first arrival into Chicago after 9am. It doesn't attempt to apply more frequencies when UA, AA and WN have Chicago covered, and UA and WN from MHT and PVD also. I think B6 remains on the route only for true loyal FF, for purposes of having Chicago in it's BOS network, and for leisure passengers.

[Edited 2015-02-19 13:25:56]

mtnwest1979 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 69):
BZE was already announced so I'm glad you like it!

Well that was what I thought, but since it wasn't on the route map, I talked myself out of it. Thank you for reaffirming my sanity lol.

airliner371 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:09 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 77):

Hahah, no problem. WN doesn't add destinations to the route map until they are added to the schedule. Hense BZE isn't on the route map yet.

iowaman · Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:31 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 75):
Interestingly, though, WN is discontinuing FLL-PIT/RDU, where B6 is the only other competitor (to my knowledge).

These are seasonally discontinued - not permanent. FLL-IND, MCI, MKE and PHX are also seasonally discontinued.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 60):
CMH is getting a lot of love lately. If WN can get more slots at LGA, I could see them getting CHM and IND just like BOS and DCA.

CMH may potentially have additional flights coming due to the Jobs Expansion and Transportation task force formed by the CMH mayor. The CMH-OAK flight is a performance based contract.

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 56):
WN will not have the resources to do much in the long term in BOS

Southwest has plenty of resources to allocate to BOS if they really wanted to assuming they have the gate space to do so.

mtnwest1979 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:52 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 78):
WN doesn't add destinations to the route map until they are added to the schedule. Hense BZE isn't on the route map yet.

It is a race to see what comes first: WN at BZE or B6 at ALB

avi8 · Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:44 am

What on earth? FLL loses 9 daily round trips? That's insane. Also, bug cuts in SEA too. I'm sure WN does their HW but It seems like WN just keeps trimming FLL despite them saying they want to fly international from there one day.

airliner371 · Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 81):
What on earth? FLL loses 9 daily round trips? That's insane. Also, bug cuts in SEA too. I'm sure WN does their HW but It seems like WN just keeps trimming FLL despite them saying they want to fly international from there one day.

It's seasonal.

iowaman · Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 81):
What on earth? FLL loses 9 daily round trips? That's insane. Also, bug cuts in SEA too. I'm sure WN does their HW but It seems like WN just keeps trimming FLL despite them saying they want to fly international from there one day.

Seems reasonable to trim FLL during the Fall which is traditionally a slower time, then return the flights during the Winter/Spring. Looking at the past three years September and October had the lowest loads at FLL for Southwest.

The Seattle seasonal cuts also occurred last year to MCI, STL, HOU, and STL and all come back this summer. Load wise Southwest does very well to Seattle in the summer. July of 2014 was at 91% and August approached 95% - pretty impressive considering the seasonal capacity additions are included in that. They still do well load-wise in the other months as last year hovered in the low to mid 80% range with the seasonal cuts. Without the seasonal cuts they would likely be down in the 70's. Compared to the system-wide average SEA peaks much higher load-factor wise in the summer. Good luck non-revving there on Southwest in the summer.

While Southwest in Seattle wasn't looking too good for a while with cuts to SLC, GEG, and BOI others are being added. DAL, SNA, and SAN have all been or will be added year round.

Also SEA-BWI has been seasonal in the past - but appears to be sticking around through the end of the scheduling period once it returns next month, indicating this is possibly going year around or at a minimum sticking around longer than previous years. The route must be doing decent as it certainly ties up a lot of aircraft flying time.

knope2001 · Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:03 am

For what it's worth it appears there are many fewer flights departing before 6:00am and arriving after 11:59pm with this schedule

barney captain · Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:15 am

Any word on the new intl city that was to be announced tonight?

usflyguy · Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:33 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 81):
What on earth? FLL loses 9 daily round trips? That's insane. Also, bug cuts in SEA too. I'm sure WN does their HW but It seems like WN just keeps trimming FLL despite them saying they want to fly international from there one day.

and there is also quite a bit of construction ramping up on the WN terminal at FLL which will take gates out of use periodically.

MaverickM11 · Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 69):
I'd love to see your source. Because if you're going to say something like this, you almost certainly have a source, right?

DOT stats. For example in FLLSJU for YE JUL14: B6-80%LF, NK 89%....WN 65%. And don't think for a second WN is somehow getting the 'high yield' traffic as there is no such thing in FLLSJU.

airliner371 · Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:04 pm

Any info on a new international city?

----
In a new interview, Gary Kelly talks about wanting to expand further internationally from BWI.

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...nts-to-add-more-international.html

MVAair · Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 87):
DOT stats. For example in FLLSJU for YE JUL14: B6-80%LF, NK 89%....WN 65%. And don't think for a second WN is somehow getting the 'high yield' traffic as there is no such thing in FLLSJU.

The problem with WN is they arent in GDS and that is hurting them in their international expansion.

AWACSooner · Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:33 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 74):

Your link doesn't seem to work. This one should...
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/wp-cont...t/uploads/2015/02/this-summary.pdf

Based upon that listing, I see ZERO frequency increases...just new city pairs...and frequency decreases

barney captain · Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:15 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 88):
Any info on a new international city?

Maybe it's just coincidental -

But today we were told of new high terrain depressurization escape charts for Panama being added to the cockpits beginning in March.

Maybe it's simply a diversion contingency for Costa Rica.

MVAair · Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 39):

I think ORD and MDW are separate markets to SJU. I don't think WN will drive B6 off the market.

lawair · Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 83):
Also SEA-BWI has been seasonal in the past - but appears to be sticking around through the end of the scheduling period once it returns next month, indicating this is possibly going year around or at a minimum sticking around longer than previous years. The route must be doing decent as it certainly ties up a lot of aircraft flying time.

I don't know about the route's performance for WN, but their decision could be influenced by AS' arrival at BWI last September. The AS flight is year round and has been performing well load-wise.

lat41 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:01 pm

I wonder sometimes about the "new" philosophy of thinning out the secondary airports who helped build the Southwest system in favor of the mega-airport nearby. The action is purportedly taken to take advantage of higher yield at the big bullseye airport yet competition is so fierce at some of these cities that the carrier has to lowball the fares to get their share of the pie. Cities like OAK BUR PVD ISP COS (non-WN of course) have been trimmed yet I wonder if the desired benefit at LAX SFO BOS LGA DEN have been truly realized. I see some BOS destinations that used to be Providence city pairs that are constantly on "Click and Save" bargain rack as competition is so fierce at BOS as just one example.

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