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frostyj
Topic Author
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UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:41 am

Don't you think its time we caught ourselves on and installed IFE? I have travelled to America and everywhere they have IFE, even on short one hour flights. Even Jetblue and Air Canada regional jets have IFE and business class seats.

People will come on here saying that they will enjoy having peace and harmony but then what about long flights?

For example,

Befast/Glasgow to Cyprus is 5-6 hours
Belfast/Glasgow to Tenerife is 4 hours
Belfast/Glasgow to Turkey is 5 hours.

There are many more examples that we could include. If we can't have IFE then we can at least have plugs and wifi (I know some airlines have this but it is not widespread).

Its such a pity we do not have a sky version of Direct tv.
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jetwet1
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:46 am

As I just pointed out in the VS thread, UK domestic, there is no reason for it.

On the mid hauls, yeah, I can see a need, the UK market is going through what the US market went through maybe 5-6 years ago, a race to the bottom, with the pricing pressure on the airlines there is only so much they can offer, until they gain some traction with pricing again IFE is low down the list.

However, who knows, maybe in 5-6 years time we will start to see UK and EU airlines starting to try and compete on amenities and service again,
 
gkirk
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:48 am

The vast majority of people take their Ipads filled with tv programmes and films on holiday with them, thus IT airlines and LCC see no need for the expense ofheavy IFE equipment, thus saving money by burning less fuel
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
frostyj
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 1):

Well they could at least provide plugs and wifi like United do. Its such an annoyance going on a 3 hour flight to Southern Spain with nothing to do but look out the window.

[Edited 2015-02-20 00:50:28]

[Edited 2015-02-20 00:50:57]
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jetwet1
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 3):

Well they could at least over plugs and wifi like United do. Its such a pain going on a 3 hour flight to Southern Spain with nothing to do but look out the window.

No argument from me, though I do tend to load up a tablet with a few movies and programs, but power would be nice.
 
frostyj
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 2):

People do the same in America and the lowcost carriers such as Jetblue and Virgin America still install ife. This is just another excuse, it wouldn't kill them to provide us with plugs and wifi especially for the flights to eastern Europe and Tenerife.

There is actually a flight from Belfast to Egypt that is 7 hours long. Of course there is NO entertainment on that either.

[Edited 2015-02-20 00:54:33]

[Edited 2015-02-20 00:55:24]
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rutankrd
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:57 am

Quoting frostyj (Thread starter):
Don't you think its time we caught ourselves on and installed IFE?

Not this crap again Frosty

Answer NO !!!!!!

The extra weight and maintenance costs are NOT WORTH IT on inter Europe operations where flight are typically 1.5 to 2 hours long period

Get a book ar two learn something could try politics or economics to inform yourself
 
frostyj
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:01 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):

Belfast to Larnaca - 2300 miles
Belfast to Sharm el Sheik - 2,700 miles
Belfast to Tenerife or Lanzarote - 1,900 miles
Belfast to Turkey - 2,000 miles
Belfast to Malta - 1,600 miles
Belfast to Greece - 2,000 miles

Are all flights that are WELL over 1.5 hours

These aircraft are domestic:

United 737 range - http://blog.tripchi.com/wp-content/u...ds/2014/04/IMG_20140411_092946.jpg
Jetblue - http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/10524.jpg
Virgin America - http://www.pixstel.com/virgin-america-cabin_pics108-10826.jpg
Delta - http://blog.gogo-vacations.com/wp-co...tent/uploads/2013/06/DeltaAVOD.jpg
Frontier airlines - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._interior_of_Frontier_Airlines.JPG
Air canada- http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EkJ_z3rtZ6.../Boeing+717+cabin+%252810%2529.jpg

So you can harp on about costs all you like. In the USA ife is offered on short sectors and many airlines so it can be done.

[Edited 2015-02-20 01:06:58]

[Edited 2015-02-20 01:10:05]
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gkirk
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:31 am

Instead of whinging about it on here, why not fire off an e-mail to TOM/TCX/LS/EZY etc?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
frostyj
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:36 am

What is the problem here? This is a discussion board, I am not "whinging" about anything.

[Edited 2015-02-20 01:45:25]
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PlymSpotter
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting frostyj (Thread starter):
UK IFE Short Haul 
Quoting frostyj (Reply 7):
Belfast to Larnaca - 2300 miles
Belfast to Sharm el Sheik - 2,700 miles
Belfast to Tenerife or Lanzarote - 1,900 miles
Belfast to Turkey - 2,000 miles
Belfast to Malta - 1,600 miles
Belfast to Greece - 2,000 miles

Those are pretty much all mid-haul flights, not short haul. Whilst it is a discussion in itself, short haul is generally classed as up to around 3 hours or 1500 miles.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
rutankrd
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:01 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 7):
So you can harp on about costs all you like. In the USA ife is offered on short sectors and many airlines so it can be done.

Not suggested it can't be done, however that is NOT how business works.

You only expend costs when the weighted evidence suggest significant return on that investment.

BTW most A320 have drop down screens.

Back of chair screen systems add significant weight and the under chair consoles even more, wiring time out of action - Major loss of revenue !
Fire risk known.

Oh and the consoles reduce customer comfort whilst you also have to consider how you dispense the heat created.

Today its likely is that Wifi gets installed (as in the US) offered freely to Club flyers and charged at an extortionate rate to those in steerage by the legacy carriers if market pressure persuades them its cost effective.

I will ignore those routes identified because A and 1 they are flown by holiday charters or consolidators on wafer thin margins.
B and 2 the longer sectors from Belfast by TCX tend to be overnight returns.

C and 3 Several routes such as these tend to be subbed to third parties such as Onur, Evelop etc.......

In the day during the summer the likes of TCX will operate two maybe three shorter sectors.

Again the idea just doesn't work against costs for any of these carriers.

That said Thomson are using the 788 with IFE on some sectors from Manchester and Gatwick this coming season and BA are scheduled to fly to the Red Sea with a 77E if you're flush !

Need to get to Munich in central Europe there is a very nice 77W service leaves Manchester daily !

The US market differs in many many ways - They have a First product (of sorts) on regional jets - Why do you think they gain so many miles - It not much more than a Club product in reality .

Much/most travel domestically compares with European Rail offerings due to the distances and this is not replicated in Europe in the main - London/Dublin being exceptions being surrounded by brine !

BTW try these on your reading list Adam Smiths -The Theory of Moral Sentiment and the more known The Wealth of Nations - That will give you a grounding of Politics and Economics
 
gilesdavies
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:42 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 7):
Belfast to Larnaca - 2300 miles
Belfast to Sharm el Sheik - 2,700 miles
Belfast to Tenerife or Lanzarote - 1,900 miles
Belfast to Turkey - 2,000 miles
Belfast to Malta - 1,600 miles
Belfast to Greece - 2,000 miles

Are all flights that are WELL over 1.5 hours

I see where you are coming from, but the issues for the airlines operating these flights is they also use the same equipment on these routes as they use from other UK airports where the flight time is a lot less, as the aircraft is rotated between bases...

It is the same equipment that operates the flights to Spain and Greece which are only 2-3 hours long, and there is far more of these flights than the longer 4+ hour flights.

IFE weighs a lot, and while fuel prices are low at the moment many view this as temporary blip, and costs a lot to ferry this unnecessary equipment about.

I like the option Monarch Airlines offers... While it is not Wi-Fi internet, they offer a Wi-Fi IFE system. You basically download an app to your phone or tablet and can then stream and access the onboard Films, TV Programmes and Music for a fee of £3.99.
http://ww2.monarch.co.uk/offers/flights/m-player

I think this is a very good compromise as the equipment used is going to be very light, and only the people wanting to use it, are having to pay for it and is not being subsidised by all ticket holders, who just want the lowest fare... The new seats they have installed, also have a slot in the top of the seat in front to place your tablet.
http://blog.monarch.co.uk/say-hello-...-ergonomic-slim-new-onboard-seats/
 
LX138
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:42 am

Slightly unnecessary comments going on here.

I was under the impression that a lot of the flights do offer IFE in a limited form - Monarch, Alitalia, Norwegian - they've shown silent sketch shows (people falling over in the street etc) on the Euro flights I've been on using the drop down monitors.

In the past, some of the charter carriers have/do offer headphones to watch a film - so again yes it done happen.

In terms of comparing to the offering in the States, I'm not sure offering full IFE is exactly the benchmark in how to economically run a short-haul airline right now though - most of the Euro carriers are religiously focused on reducing costs and ROI over anything else.
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N1120A
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:57 pm

Its all about average stage length.

Quoting frostyj (Thread starter):
I have travelled to America and everywhere they have IFE, even on short one hour flights

That's because those same planes turn around to fly 3/4/5/6 hour flights.

Quoting frostyj (Thread starter):
Even Jetblue and Air Canada regional jets have IFE and business class seats.

B6 doesn't have regional jets - they have small mainline jets. AC has IFE on one regional jet, the CRJ-705. The rest are jets that are or were mainline.

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 1):
until they gain some traction with pricing again IFE is low down the list.

I don't agree with you there. US carriers have had various IFE products on domestic since the 1970s.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
frostyj
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):

Embarer jets are small jets that are designed to be flown on short 2 hour etc sectors.
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ba319-131
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 3):

- How about reading a book if your that bored??
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
frostyj
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:09 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 16):

Well in that case the Americans should 'just read a book'.
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ba319-131
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 17):

- The thread is about the UK, not America or Americans.
111 732 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739,7M8 BBJ 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 764 772 77L 773 77W L15 D10 D30 D40 AB3 AB6 312 313 318 319 320 20N 321 21N 332 333 342 343 345 346 359 351 388 CS1 CS3 I86 154 SSJ CRJ CR7 CR9 CRK 145 170 175 220
 
frostyj
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 18):

And what? They still have 1-2 hour sectors where IFE is used and that they can get bored in. As I have just said why can't they get a book???

There is no reason why we cannot have IFE installed on our aircraft.

[Edited 2015-02-20 09:16:35]
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PlymSpotter
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:41 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
There is no reason why we cannot have IFE installed on our aircraft.

Purchase/instillation cost
Content cost
Added weight
Maintenance cost
Vandalism/repair cost
Heat management
Reduced legroom in many cases

All perfectly valid reasons against installing IFE on short haul aircraft.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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bgm
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:57 pm

There is IFE on every flight. It's called a window.  
Really? Four more years of this?
 
jetwet1
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
I don't agree with you there. US carriers have had various IFE products on domestic since the 1970s.

And for a period of time during the real onslaught of the LCC's and ULCC's they were removing or disabling them.

Even now, on some routes, you get the drop down screen with one movie playing, what the OP was asking for was AVOD, it's not as wide spread as he thinks (220 legs flown on DL last year) most just have a movie, that is the same for the whole month.

I will say though, credit where credit is due, VX and B6 do offer great IFE on all domestic flights and DL is slowly catching up, I can't say about the others as I have been pretty much flying those three for the last 18 months.
 
andrej
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:38 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 17):
Well in that case the Americans should 'just read a book'.

To their defense, many 'Americans' do actually read a lot of books whilst traveling.

Many have already pointed out that it's all about cost/benefit analysis and fleet commonality. The extra costs are not justifiable by extra revenue (if any) from IFE on short-haul flights. Thus, planes that do 1 hour trips can also do longer-stage flights so you have a flexible fleet.

In the U.S. market conditions have changed greatly over recent years. I remember being on 3-4 hour flights and only IFE I had was my window or a book. U.S. airline industry have experienced period of consolidation and there is an pressure to get as much business as possible. With arrival and expansion of VX and B6, legacy carriers are forced to react (w/introduction of enhanced soft and hard products).
 
abrown532
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:59 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 5):
There is actually a flight from Belfast to Egypt that is 7 hours long.

No there isn't, I work at Aldergrove and even with a bit of headwind the longest SSH flight is just less than 6 hours.
 
TKA380
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:08 pm

I agree that British carriers need to up their game. Turkish now offers IFE on most UK flights. It's only 3.5-4hrs, why can't others follow. I think when one EU airline decides to install IFE on narrow body aircraft the others might consider following suit. How long will it be though...
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Quoting TKA380 (Reply 25):
Turkish now offers IFE on most UK flights. It's only 3.5-4hrs, why can't others follow.

Because those same aircraft are also flying maximum range routes into Central Asia and Africa, where the market demands such a product. These kind of medium haul routes are very different to the common 1-2 hour short haul routes you typically get around Europe.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
by738
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:30 pm

Until consistent wireless and lighter monitors are incorporated into any new seating, you wont see any resurgance in shorthaul IFE. Gone are the days of Keeping up appearances reeuns on the big heavy CRT monitors hanging on the BY 737s!
 
vv701
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RE: UK IFE Short Haul

Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:23 pm

Most passengers choose their short-haul European flights on the basis of cost. Hence the success of the likes of 4U, DY, FR and VY. Is the way for others to compete with these LCCs to install, expensive and heavy IFEs and charge more to defray their increased investment and fuel costs?

If there really is a demand for IFE systems on some of the longer European routes there is a possible answer. BA altered first their TLV and then their DME services by changing them by using their 'long' instead of their 'short' haul fleet on them. Others could do the same.

If they do this and the route is short enough to be operated by one of the LCCs, they need to be prepared to loose significant market share. I do not think BA would have dared to turn LHR-DME into a 'long' haul route if the UK/Russian Federation bilateral had not been so restrictive. But even then it opened up the LON-MOS route to not unlimited U2 competition. I assume that BA did this because they believed the route would be strong enough to help fill most of their premium cabins on most flights. That would be unlikely on any service on what is primarily a tourist route.

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