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factsonly
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Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:44 am

The January 2015 statistics from the UK CAA present some interesting reading on market developments for the ME3 in Britiain:

QATAR:
- DOH-Edinburgh (new route) 5xB787/week = 8384 pax = approx. 200/flight
- DOH-Manchester = 21.088 pax -10% = approx. 188/flight

Is QR suffering in Manchester due to the opening of EDI-DOH??

EMIRATES:
- DXB-Gatwick = 67.192 pax. +13% = approx. 361/flight
- DXB-Heathrow = 197.931 pax +2% = approx. 266/flight (all airlines BA, EK, QF, VS, BI)

Why is EK growing so fast at LGW, and which airline at LHR is not growing? Is BI loosing traffic?

ETIHAD:
- AUH-Heathrow = 61.129 pax +17% = approx. 246/flight (EY and BA)

Why is AUH-LHR growing faster than DXB-LHR. Is DXB-LHR overserved?

- AUH-Manchester = 35.030 pax +7% = approx. 283 pax/flight
- DXB-Manchester = 69.921 pax +6% = approx. 376 pax/flight

EY has a fewer pax/departure, but higher growth than EK.

Any comments or views on these developments by A.netters?


www.caa.co.uk
 
dc10lover
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:59 am

Etihad is one of the very best airlines in the world.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
migair54
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:10 am

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Is QR suffering in Manchester due to the opening of EDI-DOH??

I don't think so, two different markets, I think you gave the answer with MAN-AUH and MAN-DXB, both got a 6-7% extra

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
EY has a fewer pax/departure, but higher growth than EK.

*protection yes, but 1% is not very big difference, EK serves MAN multiple daily even with A380, and 376 per flight is a great number.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Why is EK growing so fast at LGW, and which airline at LHR is not growing? Is BI loosing traffic?

Maybe some people from London area find LGW more suitable than the crowded LHR, 361 per flight is a good number if they are having good loads in the upper classes.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):

do you have GLA so we can compare with QR EDI flight???
 
factsonly
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:39 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Is QR suffering in Manchester due to the opening of EDI-DOH??

I don't think so, two different markets, I think you gave the answer with MAN-AUH and MAN-DXB, both got a 6-7% extra

Ahh...but from the data it seems that QR is competing with itself between EDI and MAN, whereas EK is apparently not between GLA, NCL and MAN.

Here are GLA and NCL both on EK exclusively:

- GLASGOW - DUBAI 38.005 pax. (+2%) = approx. 306 / flight
- NEWCASTLE - DUBAI 19.327 pax (+5%) = approx. 312 / flight

One could claim that QR/EDI has had a marginal impact on EK at GLA, as growth has slowed down.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
but from the data it seems that QR is competing with itself between EDI and MAN

How would EDI compete with MAN or vice versa? Too far apart, nearly 4 hours drive, not the same market.

Just because one airport is up and the other is down does not mean they are competing.
 
David_itl
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:20 pm

QR at MAN was nowhere near 188 per flight in January. Only operated 10 weekly so it's heading towards 240 or thereabouts per flight.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 1):
Etihad is one of the very best airlines in the world.

The Residence by Etihad does set the bar very high in terms of product  
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
theginge
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:40 pm

Is this just passengers going to Qatar, Dubai or Abu Dhabi or is it just everyone who gets on a plane to these places which will then include lots of transfers?
 
by738
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:27 pm

QR at EDI are all over the place and havent had consistent loads, seem to vary from 60's to 80's loads. Cant see why anyone would transfer their allegiance from an MAN QR flight to EDI. So if there is indeed a drop ar MAN, there must be more local reasons. The biggest one to watch is the effect on the already iffy and marginal TK EDI, and also effect on QR when EY floods the market with cheaper ME seats.
 
factsonly
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:56 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 8):
The biggest one to watch is the effect on the already iffy and marginal TK EDI,

- EDI - ISTANBUL 6.169 pax +1% = 99 pax/flight.

TK traffic was marginally up, even with QR in the market.

However:
- EDI-AMS = -2%.
- EDI-FRA = -22%
- EDI-MUC = -13%
- EDI-CDG = +10%
- EDI-CPH = -6%

Difficult to read these results.
 
migair54
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 3):
Here are GLA and NCL both on EK exclusively:

- GLASGOW - DUBAI 38.005 pax. (+2%) = approx. 306 / flight
- NEWCASTLE - DUBAI 19.327 pax (+5%) = approx. 312 / flight

That's an awesome load factors, it's more than 85%.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 6):
The Residence by Etihad does set the bar very high in terms of product  

Not only that, the whole service is well above standard.

Quoting theginge (Reply 7):
Is this just passengers going to Qatar, Dubai or Abu Dhabi or is it just everyone who gets on a plane to these places which will then include lots of transfers?

Every single pax.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 4):
How would EDI compete with MAN or vice versa? Too far apart, nearly 4 hours drive, not the same market.

Yes, but EDI goes vs GLA, who will get next service??
 
David_itl
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 10):
That's an awesome load factors, it's more than 85%.
NCL's hovering around the 75% load factor.. 2 class 77W is what they have.

MAN's EK load (based on 1 517 seat A388, 1 364 seat 77W & 1 427 seat 77W per day) would be 86.6%. EY -not sure of breakdown but based 2 412 seat 77W per day is around the 68%/69% whereas daily 77W+A330 it goes to around 85%. QR on 10 weekly A333 seating 305, it's 79%.

[Edited 2015-02-21 11:53:13]
 
factsonly
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 4):
Too far apart, nearly 4 hours drive, not the same market.

Not if you live half-way in Northern England/Newcastle, only 2hrs to either airport.
 
hibtastic
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:14 pm

Think EY at a EDI could also have an effect on EK at GLA and NCL too. More so that QR perhaps?
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 5):
QR at MAN was nowhere near 188 per flight in January. Only operated 10 weekly so it's heading towards 240

I can confirm this, very nearly every QR flight out of MAN until last week was leaving near as dam it full. The new evening flights that were added last week however are still getting off the starting blocks. The first one was full, but the 3 flights after were fairly low loads, however it's early days yet for these new flights.

[Edited 2015-02-21 14:16:54]
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Planesmart
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:15 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Maybe some people from London area find LGW more suitable than the crowded LHR, 361 per flight is a good number if they are having good loads in the upper classes.

Now Gatwick has 380, that's my preference. Short distances in terminal. Short walk to collect drop off rental.
 
willd
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 12):
Not if you live half-way in Northern England/Newcastle, only 2hrs to either airport.

Yes but they are still very different markets. Thats like saying LHR and MAN are the same market because if you live at Birmingham you are half way between the two. There is always overlap but it doesn't mean they have the same market characteristics or serve the same market.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:43 am

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Why is EK growing so fast at LGW,

They increased the supply, i.e. introduced the A380 on one rotation and the people of the SE lapped it up. EK are stuck on 5 frequencies per day at LHR which are all served by the A380 so the demand is there for more (has anyone ever been on an EK flight from LHR that wasn't packed? I haven't.) I suspect they are going to use LGW to serve this extra demand by improving the product with the A380.
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by738
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:37 am

Quoting hibtastic (Reply 13):

Using MAN as an example, that never seems to be the case.
 
gkirk
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:00 am

Quoting hibtastic (Reply 13):
Think EY at a EDI could also have an effect on EK at GLA and NCL too. More so that QR perhaps?

I'd suggest the opposite, it will have more of an effect on LH/BA/KL/TK/QR at EDI rather than EK at GLA and NCL
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hibtastic
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:20 pm

Yes it will have an affect on those. I just think that having EY there will also have a bigger affect on EK than QR has. Suppose we will just have to wait and see.
 
frostyj
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 12):

Newcastle has Emirates.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:45 pm

I wonder when EK will serve STN. A 2-class plane would be the optimal start IMHO.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Why is EK growing so fast at LGW, and which airline at LHR is not growing? Is

EK has been adding A380s at LGW. AT LHR, they would require more slots. Nothing wrong with focusing growth where there is less competition. But to grow at LHR would require more slot pairs. Is the cost worth it? Probably, but as already noted, EK flies 5X A380/day to/from LHR.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Why is AUH-LHR growing faster than DXB-LHR. Is DXB-LHR overserved?

EY recently added A380s as well as many more connections to India. I believe the mix has increased the demand.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 10):
That's an awesome load factors, it's more than 85%.

While others have already broken down many of the numbers, it shows why EK is ready to upgauge many routes to the A380. But they must do so 'balanced' on both sides of their hub.

Lightsaber

Quoting factsonly (Reply 9):
However:
- EDI-AMS = -2%.
- EDI-FRA = -22%
- EDI-MUC = -13%
- EDI-CDG = +10%
- EDI-CPH = -6%

Hmmm...
LH has lost market share (sharp drop at FRA and MUC).
KL is holding flat (+/- 2% is noise).
AF is slightly gaining.

CPH isn't really a hub, so that is intra EU feed that isn't impacted by the ME3.

This should tell us what region is growing in demand from EDI. It seems to imply Africa and SE Asia where LH isn't as strong. Anyone with a better analysis?

Lightsaber
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Humberside
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:05 pm

EDI-MUC is only operated by Easyjet, not Lufthansa. (And at the moment EDI-CPH is served by EZY and DY, SAS start later this year)

[Edited 2015-02-23 13:07:47]
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Ncfc99
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 22):
But to grow at LHR would require more slot pairs. Is the cost worth it? Probably, but as already noted, EK flies 5X A380/day to/from LHR.

There was a thread about a LHR slot pair being sold recently, was there any conclusion as to who bought it? I would guess EK would be intrested if any slot pairs were on the market.


Regarding EK's UK routes, does anyone know how much cargo are they carrying into and out of the UK daily, and how it is split between locations?
 
vfw614
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 22):
I wonder when EK will serve STN. A 2-class plane would be the optimal start IMHO.

Pardon my ignorance: Is UK - UAE open skies or are EK/EY frequency/destination limited?

Besides that, I guess Belfast would make sense at some point for one of the ME3. And maybe BRS.
 
gkirk
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:56 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 25):

Openskies.

BFS may be too close to DUB, although APD wouldnt apply. BRS is too short of a runway. I could see TK sending a 738 to BRS though
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:05 am

A question about EK operations to/from LHR. They currently fly 5x daily A380.

Are they able to fill all the flights ? It's huge capacity... What is their average L.F ?

 
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lightsaber
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 25):

UK and the UAE have open skies (at least to 5th freedom).

Lightsaber
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vfw614
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RE: Some Interesting QR, EK, EY Statistics In The UK

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting gkirk (Reply 26):
BRS is too short of a runway. I could see TK sending a 738 to BRS though

Forgot that BRS is only 2.000m'ish. How about QR and one of their 319LR that they have used to places like TXL and STR in the past? Would that be doable from BRS or too much distance to DOH?

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