AA DFW-HKG Update

chrisp390 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:15 am

It's been a while now since the route has been launched. Does anyone know how it has been doing and what the future looks like for the route and AA in Hong Kong?

Longhornmaniac · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:14 am

This route is absolutely packed to the brim with high-value pax. It's not uncommon to see 50-60 EXP on one flight. Systemwide Upgrades are notoriously difficult to clear on this flight, especially in advance, so AA is definitely selling their fair share of F and J seats.

While this doesn't, in itself, prove much of anything, I think it does show that there are many high-dollar passengers, from paying J/F pax on down to the top-tier elites, many of whom will be on refundable and/or last minute fares.

Cheers,
Cameron

mop357 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:42 am

I took this flight on a buddy pass in September. Getting there was not bad there was room in all three classes. I went buisness class and there was plenty of empty seats. I got lucky that day. Coming back I remember when I got to Hong Kong there was 4/4 in first and 25/52 in buisness. The night before buisness was 46/52 and by the next day it was 52/52. I flew back economy but it was still worth wild. I watched this flight for weeks and first and buisness get filled up fairly quickly.

SCL767 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
This route is absolutely packed to the brim with high-value pax. It's not uncommon to see 50-60 EXP on one flight. Systemwide Upgrades are notoriously difficult to clear on this flight, especially in advance, so AA is definitely selling their fair share of F and J seats.

I had the pleasure of flying the DFW-HKG route last year and I guess I was lucky that my SWU cleared both ways before I even got to DFW for the flight. The hard product was great on the 77W, but the soft product was extremely disappointing on both the DFW-HKG and HKG-DFW segments. Even though AA has fares for around 4500USD to HKG from MIA, I think I'll book my next trip on CX instead of AA for various reasons.

chrisp390 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:36 am

That is fantastic to hear. Is it mostly O&D and if not where are most pax connecting to?

So why are we not seeing maybe HKG-LAX if this is so successful and maybe even DFW-SIN?

Kashmon · Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:43 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 4):

why waste resources to a city already served by a partner

this is why it is unlikely AA will fly to SYD etc

qf2220 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:16 am

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 5):

Are CX and AA meaningful partners?

LAX772LR · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:24 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 4):
and maybe even DFW-SIN?

AA doesn't have any aircraft that can come remotely close to operating that distance.... it would be the longest scheduled flight in history, and is almost 1,200mi longer than the current world's longest flight! lol

Not that there's a market for it anyway.

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 6):
Are CX and AA meaningful partners?

Define "meaningful".... they're both in OneWorld, and they codeshare, but that's about it.

Due to the current US-HK bilateral, they cannot have ATI and thus cannot have a J/V, if that's what you're asking.

Cipango · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 6):
Are CX and AA meaningful partners?

They are both part of OW so partners in this respect. They wouldn't be as close as AA and BA but they do have some code shares.

us330 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 6):
Are CX and AA meaningful partners?

CX and AA are codeshare only partners. The reason you won't see AA in SYD anytime soon is that they already de facto serve SYD thanks to their joint venture/joint business agreement which means that AA/QF are metal neutral between the U.S. and Australia.

jfk777 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:27 pm

One AA flight to HKG is great so where are the plans for the second and third flights from other AA hubs or DFW.

jfklganyc · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:27 pm

I hate to rain on the parade DFW-Asia parade, but I love doing it.

Quick search of A*A.com

Departing NYC-> HKG March 10, returning a week later

Shows a connection via DFW priced at $1089

Yet the non stop JFK-HKG is priced at $1236

That means, AA is getting less money to fly you a heck of a lot further than partner CX is getting for the non stop.

That's just NYC.

The whole Asian-heavy northeastern US flies 3-4 hours to DFW, then an extra hour or two from DFW to HKG and AA is getting a lower fare then their counterparts for a shorter flight out of a more O and D heavy gateway.

I believe the AA DFW Asia gateway will continue...simply because AA has no other choice.

Despite the fact that DFW is a terrible location for an Asian gateway with low O and D relative to any other Asian gateway in the country.

Despite the fact that they are filling the plane with low fares 2 weeks out.

jfk777 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
The whole Asian-heavy northeastern US flies 3-4 hours to DFW, then an extra hour or two from DFW to HKG and AA is getting a lower fare then their counterparts for a shorter flight out of a more O and D heavy gateway.

AA's core market to Asia via DFW is not designed to cater to the Northeast. New England is served via Chicago and JFK. DFW is more for the south, Florida, and the Midwest. The Northeast has many options to Asia from JFK and now Boston nonstop and via hubs in Detroit and Chicago plus the west coast.

GSPSPOT · Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
Despite the fact that DFW is a terrible location for an Asian gateway with low O and D relative to any other Asian gateway in the country.

Spend any amount of time in the Metroplex and you will see that the area has quite a large and prominent Asian population.

HKG212 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
This route is absolutely packed to the brim with high-value pax. It's not uncommon to see 50-60 EXP on one flight. Systemwide Upgrades are notoriously difficult to clear on this flight, especially in advance, so AA is definitely selling their fair share of F and J seats.

I fly this route a lot, and in fact I'm writing this note from the DFW lounge en route back to HKG. The service rep here told me there are 26 Exec Plats waitlisted for a C upgrade, and that's normal. I gave up and rerouted myself via PVG where upgrades were available. But I got one for the HKG-DFW part last week, possibly because it was slow due to the Chinese New Year. Normally I don't take my chances and just pay.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
The hard product was great on the 77W, but the soft product was extremely disappointing on both the DFW-HKG and HKG-DFW segments.

Totally agree. The food offer is particularly appalling on the HKG-DFW segment. 70% of the options are Chinese, and bad Chinese at that. Seems like cultural pandering to me. The crew is, as always with AA, hit or miss.

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 4):
So why are we not seeing maybe HKG-LAX if this is so successful and maybe even DFW-SIN?

I wouldn't be surprised if we see HKG-LAX or even HKG-JFK sometime soon. Both markets are a gravy train for CX, partly on the strength of the local AA market. As someone else here noted, DFW-SIN is not possible physically, and not rational commercially.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
DFW is more for the south, Florida, and the Midwest.

It's not all about the US. Quite a few transfers to Latin America, which DFW does better than any other US airports in terms of passenger experience.

MKIAZ · Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:50 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
This route is absolutely packed to the brim with high-value pax. It's not uncommon to see 50-60 EXP on one flight. Systemwide Upgrades are notoriously difficult to clear on this flight, especially in advance, so AA is definitely selling their fair share of F and J seats.

I agree the flight is packed to the brim with EXP's, but this doesn't necessarily mean it's doing well - just the opposite actually. The EXP's are likely flying it because it's the only AA flight to HKG, so they fly with AA instead of CX so they can burn their SWU's. I'd bet a ton of EXP's backtrack from lax/jfk wherever just to use a SWU.

CX doesn't give out free upgrades (although some award tickets) and their J cabins are usually pretty close to full on all what 15? daily flights to NA.

This says to me, if you're flying paid J/F, you take CX (unless maybe you're leaving from DFW and want the nonstop). If you're price-sensitive and flying on your own dime, or your company will only pay for y, you take AA and use an upgrade instrument.

commavia · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
Departing NYC-> HKG March 10, returning a week later

Shows a connection via DFW priced at $1089

Yet the non stop JFK-HKG is priced at $1236

That means, AA is getting less money to fly you a heck of a lot further than partner CX is getting for the non stop.

Right ... so, in other words, the normal rules of market behavior that apply to every other city pair on earth also apply to NYC-HKG. Not quite sure how sharing this knowledge with us constitutes "raining on the parade" of anything. I think AA knows that it can't fill DFW-HKG with connections priced higher than nonstops from feeder markets. So of course AA has to price NYC-DFW-HKG at a discount to a nonstop - again, that' show every route works. Isn't that sort of intuitively obvious, that a nonstop will attract a higher price than a longer, connecting routing? Duh!

ldvaviation · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 15):
I'd bet a ton of EXP's backtrack from lax/jfk wherever just to use a SWU.

A significant amount of the O&D that Cathay sees on its LAX/HKG flights is AA codeshare traffic, EXP's, Fly America, et al.

There is much less backtracking than you think because corporate TA's/auditors don't take too kindly to those itineraries.

usflyer msp · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 17):
There is much less backtracking than you think because corporate TA's/auditors don't take too kindly to those itineraries.

The TA's/auditors could care less about the backtracking...all they care about is how much the fare is. AA frequently sells LAX-DFW-HKG for less than the CX LAX-HKG nonstops...

LAXdude1023 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:24 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 15):
I agree the flight is packed to the brim with EXP's, but this doesn't necessarily mean it's doing well - just the opposite actually. The EXP's are likely flying it because it's the only AA flight to HKG, so they fly with AA instead of CX so they can burn their SWU's. I'd bet a ton of EXP's backtrack from lax/jfk wherever just to use a SWU.

Thats kind of backward logic. If they are flying specifically for the AA fight, in many cases they pay MORE for it so they can use an SWU if its available.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 11):
I hate to rain on the parade DFW-Asia parade, but I love doing it.

And yet, you know so little about it.

Unless you have average paid fare data, your examples are worthless.

Loads would also be helpful as Im sure you're aware prices go up as planes get more full.

Longhornmaniac · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 18):
The TA's/auditors could care less about the backtracking...all they care about is how much the fare is.

I don't know from what authority you're speaking, but my corporate travel policy (Fortune 100) specifically calls out itineraries that are more than 3 hours longer than the shortest trip as being against policy.

Cheers,
Cameron

jfk777 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 14):
It's not all about the US. Quite a few transfers to Latin America, which DFW does better than any other US airports in terms of passenger experience.

Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires are certainly connections to Hong Kong over DFW.

Max752 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:06 pm

I strongly disagree with the whole "LAX-HKG won't happen because of the CX codeshare". A once daily round-trip would undoubtedly be a money maker for AA like DFW-HKG and would be a popular Ex-Plat route. I can name ten other routes AA operates that it's codeshare partners also have a large presence on. If anything, it would benefit CX as well with more codeshare options for it's pax.

LAX-HKG is a toss-up though. AA is still trying to work out LAX-HND and some other LAX-Asia routes and schedules. Within the next few years I can see LAX-HKG as AA begins to grow in the Asian market.

As for the aircraft, a 77W would work great on that route but so would the 787-8 and -9 or even the 777-200, it's just too early to say.

AA has surely been surprising analyst, reporters, and airline enthusiasts these last few months. I can tell you there weren't many people who thought AA would launch their first 787-8 route from DFW-PEK. As a matter a fact, everyone saw the 787-8 flying either a TATL or Brazilian route.

What, I'm trying to say is LAX-HKG is definitely not off the table or unlikely.

As for the DFW-HKG route/status

It has undoubtedly been a success the last year for AA. Yields are impressive and non-revenue travel is embargoed quite frequently due to the amount of AA pax filling up not only F and J but also Y. One thing that is different about DFW-HKG is the sheer amount of paying/full-fare revenue first and business passengers. Compare DFW-HKG to DFW-GRU on the same aircraft and the amount of revenue premium passengers on the HKG flights is much higher than the GRU flights.

I frequently see the DFW-HKG and HKG-DFW overbooked/oversold and even sold out on AA.com. I hope AA's success on that route continues!

-Max

MKIAZ · Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
Thats kind of backward logic. If they are flying specifically for the AA fight, in many cases they pay MORE for it so they can use an SWU if its available.

Not necessarily. Looks like lax-dfw-hkg is cheaper by a couple hundred dollars than lax-hkg for random dates in April.

If AA was getting a ton of demand for the flight (including people trying to upgrade), you're correct, you would expect to see much higher economy fares due to lack of supply (only 1 flight/day). But the fact that AA's flights are cheaper probably means that most pax without the ability to upgrade are choosing CX (and can you blame them, 3-3-3 vs 3-4-3 makes a big difference on a 16 hour flight).

ozark1 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 14):
The crew is, as always with AA, hit or miss.

This term is amusing to me. Hit or miss. For the past 3 trips on WN the f/a's have been sullen and unfriendly. Other times they are fantastic. I have had exactly the same experience on UA. DL, QF, SQ, BA, B6 and every single carrier I have flown on. You show me an airline that never has "misses" in terms of cabin crew . I can hear it now .."happens more on AA, blah blah blah", and plus those chauvinist ones will say it's because of the old bitter ladies. I make no excuse for bad cabin service. I know people are paying a lot of money and I realize that in every interaction I have on board, but it is absolutely impossible to instill my attitude in every single co worker I have. Human nature just doesn't work that way.

usxguy · Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:39 pm

I was booked on this flight on March 9th but cancelled it. The thought of being stuck in Economy (although it was MCE) for 17 hours was just scary, plus the fact a 3 hour layover in HKG and the thought of getting stuck if this plane runs late just made it more complicated. I'm now flying Delta over Tokyo to get where I need to go on this trip.

qf2220 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 7):
Define "meaningful".... they're both in OneWorld, and they codeshare, but that's about it.

That's my point. I don't think they are meaningful. CX doesn't get along with QF or BA all that well, I wouldn't think being oneworld means they are best buds with AA. So, AA shouldn't be restricted to flyng to 'partner' routes unless they are genuine partners (eg AA+QF), and where they are genuine partners, they probably don't need to fly there as the partnership is set up well.

LAX772LR · Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 14):
DFW-SIN is not possible physically,

No, it's physically possible... just not with anything that AA currently has or has coming.
They could acquire 77Ls or order 778s right now, if they wanted; both of which could do the route.

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 26):
I don't think they are meaningful

...so?

And anyway, as mentioned, their relationship (in the face of lacking ATI) is about as close now as it can legally get.

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 26):
AA shouldn't be restricted to flyng to 'partner' routes

huh?? AA can fly to HKG, or pretty much anywhere else in Asia, as much as it wants. Not sure what you're talking about here.

4engines4lnghll · Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 24):

I find it annoying myself when people slap the "unfriendly" label on an airline because they had one or two bad flights. There are way more good crew members than there are bad and I think we just hear about the bad ones more often because the great friendly crews are just our expectation so no one takes the time to tell everyone.

YLWbased · Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 15):
CX doesn't give out free upgrades (although some award tickets) and their J cabins are usually pretty close to full on all what 15? daily flights to NA.

Absolutely NOT true, CX do give out free upgrades to MP members when seats are available, get yr fact straight.
I for one, has been upgraded to J twice, once on JFK-YVR and once on LAX-HKG being MP Silver.

YLWbased

northwestEWR · Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:38 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 20):

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 18):
The TA's/auditors could care less about the backtracking...all they care about is how much the fare is.

I don't know from what authority you're speaking, but my corporate travel policy (Fortune 100) specifically calls out itineraries that are more than 3 hours longer than the shortest trip as being against policy.

Cheers,
Cameron

Most companies I know have to pay for their employees' travel time. So a significant backtrack is going to cost the company more than paying for a direct flight. Remember 1 hour of employee time is not just base pay. Taxes, benefits, insurance, etc make this very expensive.

usflyer msp · Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 20):
I don't know from what authority you're speaking, but my corporate travel policy (Fortune 100) specifically calls out itineraries that are more than 3 hours longer than the shortest trip as being against policy.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 30):
Most companies I know have to pay for their employees' travel time. So a significant backtrack is going to cost the company more than paying for a direct flight. Remember 1 hour of employee time is not just base pay.

I don't know of any companies that have hourly, non-salaried employees traveling regularly. Most are on salary, travel time included. All of the travel policies I am familiar with could care less about travel time. My company's policy states that we have to take the lowest fare that meets our schedule limitations although we can pay up to $250 more for nonstop flights, can fly in C on trips of more than 4000mi (depending on position) and do not ever have to take domestic redeyes...

northwestEWR · Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:13 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 31):

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 20):
I don't know from what authority you're speaking, but my corporate travel policy (Fortune 100) specifically calls out itineraries that are more than 3 hours longer than the shortest trip as being against policy.
Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 30):
Most companies I know have to pay for their employees' travel time. So a significant backtrack is going to cost the company more than paying for a direct flight. Remember 1 hour of employee time is not just base pay.

I don't know of any companies that have hourly, non-salaried employees traveling regularly. Most are on salary, travel time included. All of the travel policies I am familiar with could care less about travel time. My company's policy states that we have to take the lowest fare that meets our schedule limitations although we can pay up to $250 more for nonstop flights, can fly in C on trips of more than 4000mi (depending on position) and do not ever have to take domestic redeyes...

This is true. However if I'm out of the office an extra day because I want to backtrack, that still costs the company extra. Employee time is usually more valuable/expensive than a couple hundred dollar savings in airfare.

Longhornmaniac · Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 31):

Two words: Consulting firms. Either the company is paying for my time, or the client is paying for my time. But either way, the contracts will stipulate a certain amount of time for a trip being paid by the client...at least in most cases. Sure, it doesn't always prevent taking circuitous routes, but the reality is if I'm traveling for work I'm expecting to be paid for that time, even as much as I enjoy flying. Given that is the expectation at consulting firms, those hours spent traveling have to be funded by someone.

Cheers,
Cameron

qf2220 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:17 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 27):

Just responding to a statement up thread in reply 5 (not yours).

KD5MDK · Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:41 am

Not to mention companies generally want their employees getting work done, which usually means being in the office and not in the air.

hz747300 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:02 am

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 29):
Absolutely NOT true, CX do give out free upgrades to MP members when seats are available, get yr fact straight.
I for one, has been upgraded to J twice, once on JFK-YVR and once on LAX-HKG being MP Silver.

YLWbased

Nice. I am rarely upgraded to business class on long haul, it's only happened once to SYD. Regionally, except for Singapore or Tokyo, ie, crowded routes, it happens a lot. Since Premium Economy was installed, I'm upgraded a lot to that especially long haul.

Separately, would love to know how much feed the DFW flight does into the CX network.

chrisp390 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 36):

Just thinking that the flight is so long, any connections would add up to crazy flight time, and even more so for people originating in South America or not DFW. Would love to see the figures however too

hz747300 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:35 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 37):
Just thinking that the flight is so long, any connections would add up to crazy flight time, and even more so for people originating in South America or not DFW. Would love to see the figures however too

Given your example, my guess would EK via DXB would be the fastest time and one needn't hassle with a transfer in the USA.

Not sure if you are in (have been to) Hong Kong, but the ads here for the American Airlines' Dallas Service are sold as "fast connections to Latin America"... Ironically, the new-ish Delta flight to flight to Seattle is marketed as Seattle and on lie-flat seats, not around connections... My commute is on the bus, so I only know the ads from the bus stops or MTR, not sure about local media.

On the CX side, most regional flights all carry an AA flight number (and already did before the AA flight) so I would guess the traveler from DFW to say, KL, should be able to book it relatively easily.

jfk777 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting Max752 (Reply 22):
It has undoubtedly been a success the last year for AA. Yields are impressive and non-revenue travel is embargoed quite frequently due to the amount of AA pax filling up not only F and J but also Y. One thing that is different about DFW-HKG is the sheer amount of paying/full-fare revenue first and business passengers. Compare DFW-HKG to DFW-GRU on the same aircraft and the amount of revenue premium passengers on the HKG flights is much higher than the GRU flights.

As the only flight to Hong Kong from any AA city it should be full of paying passengers, its also 8000 miles from DFW. GRU is 4,500 miles from DFW and AA has almost as many flights to GRU as LHR so AA passengers have many options to get to GRU from several AA hubs. The second AA flight to HKG, from whatever USA gateway, will remove some revenue from the current DFW flight.

Max752 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:30 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 39):
The second AA flight to HKG, from whatever USA gateway, will remove some revenue from the current DFW flight.

If you think about the logistics of it, it won't take away too much service. The Asian population throughout the west coast cities is huge and the amount of international-Asia travelers is also very high. It would allow passengers on the west coast an alternative to CX and would give Oneworld more options to HKG. DFW gets the majority of it's connecting pax from the midwest and south not the west.

You would probably only see say five passengers that would normally take the DFW-HKG non-stop go to LAX-HKG as a result of better scheduling or lower fares.

-Max

jfk777 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting Max752 (Reply 40):
You would probably only see say five passengers that would normally take the DFW-HKG non-stop go to LAX-HKG as a result of better scheduling or lower fares.

While I can see AA doing HKG from LAX Chicago seems a better gateway since AA already has Asian flights from ORD and CX only has a daily flight not the 4 daily from LAX. LAX to Peking and JFK to Shanghai seem more important then LAX to HKG. The return of JFK to NRT would make sense too why no Tokyo flight after the second termination of JFK to HND needs to be addressed and the JAL code share flights is not the answer for JFK.

usflyer msp · Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:39 pm

If AA is going to run a second HKG flight, they should run it from PHL. A decent local market and no competition just like DFW. It would be a winner.

LAX772LR · Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 42):
A decent local market

That no one has (realistically) bothered attempting to serve, even to NRT?

...doubtful.

usflyer msp · Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 43):
That no one has (realistically) bothered attempting to serve, even to NRT?

...doubtful.

PHL is still the 6th largest metro area in the country. The lack of Asia service has more to with structural weaknesses at US rather than some inherent weakness in the local market...

Max752 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 44):
PHL is still the 6th largest metro area in the country. The lack of Asia service has more to with structural weaknesses at US rather than some inherent weakness in the local market..

Before PHL gets HKG service AA would start PEK or Tokyo service. PHL does a have a pretty strong Asian population.

jfk777 · Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting Max752 (Reply 45):
Before PHL gets HKG service AA would start PEK or Tokyo service. PHL does a have a pretty strong Asian population.

AA has to have plans for a Tokyo flight from Philadelphia, maybe they are waiting for the A350.

globalcabotage · Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:03 am

Legacy US folks thinking PHL, CLT, and PHX have more O&D and better locations than LAX, ORD, and MIA. CLT to deep SA is being dropped. PHL and PHX have no Asia service. Why would PHL, PHX, and CLT suddenly become the U.S. to Asia hubs? DFW serves SA connections, and ORD serves the MW, East, some SE, and eastern Canada. What do CLT and PHL have to offer (Wattertown and Myrtle Beach)? Same for PHX, what does it offer more than LAX?

LAXdude1023 · Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting globalcabotage (Reply 47):
Legacy US folks thinking PHL, CLT, and PHX have more O&D and better locations than LAX, ORD, and MIA. CLT to deep SA is being dropped. PHL and PHX have no Asia service. Why would PHL, PHX, and CLT suddenly become the U.S. to Asia hubs? DFW serves SA connections, and ORD serves the MW, East, some SE, and eastern Canada. What do CLT and PHL have to offer (Wattertown and Myrtle Beach)? Same for PHX, what does it offer more than LAX?

MIA has little meaningful O&D to East Asia. MIA-MNL is large but garbage yeilds and MIA-HKG/TPE are small but have high fares. I do support the assumption that MIA-NRT could work on a 787 but only if its marketed properly.

As for PHL, a PHL-NRT flight would work nicely. Its a gaping hole in AA's Asia network.

I agree about PHX and CLT. There is no need to add an Asia flight from either of them.

usflyer msp · Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting Max752 (Reply 45):
Before PHL gets HKG service SA)">AA would start PEK or Tokyo service. PHL does a have a pretty strong Asian population.

I agree Tokyo would come first but I see HKG before PEK...

Quoting globalcabotage (Reply 47):
Legacy US folks thinking PHL, CLT, and PHX have more O&D and better locations than LAX, ORD, and MIA. CLT to deep SA is being dropped. PHL and PHX have no Asia service. Why would PHL, PHX, and CLT suddenly become the U.S. to Asia hubs?

That is a mis-characterization of what US supporters believe. No one thinks CLT/PHX is going replace or even rival MIA/LAX. The problem is ORD/LAX/NYC, while very large markets, are also hypercompetitive with every major foreign flag carrier flying to them. All the US people are saying is that it might be better for American to launch new international routes from places where they have a position of strength and little competition like PHL/CLT/MIA/DFW instead of trying to compete with every other carrier out of NYC/CHI/LAX.

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