JFK Closed

747-600X · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:37 pm

So... What's up at JFK???

02/658 JFK AD AIRPORT CLSD 1502221250-150222300EST

MIflyer12 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:39 pm

www.fly.faa.gov

AIRPORT STATUS INFORMATION
provided by the FAA's Air Traffic Control System Command Center
John F Kennedy International Airport (JFK) Real-time Status
The status information provided on this site indicates general airport conditions; it is not flight-specific. Check with your airline to determine if your flight is affected.
Delays by Destination:
Due to SNOW/ICE, the CDW airport was closed as of Feb 22 at 02:15 UTC. The date/time when the airport is expected to reopen is Feb 22 at 17:00 UTC.

If you have internet to start a thread on a.net, you can check the FAA site.

747-600X · Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:58 pm

Should be fun for BDL. Emirates is sending their A380 there... UAE203

roseflyer · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:06 pm

Looks like there have been a few diversions. Etihad diverted to EWR and JetBlue o BDL. I believe there will be more diversions.

efgonzo · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting 747-600X (Reply 2):
hould be fun for BDL. Emirates is sending their A380 there... UAE203

Looks like UAE203 is headed back south out of a hold north of KJFK. Not going to see that plane at KBDL today.

jfklganyc · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:10 pm

Freezing rain on top of ~4 inches of new snow.

It should be open rather quickly I would imagine.

LGA is open LOC 31 approach

ltbewr · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:11 pm

It's odd that JFK is closed, but LGA and EWR are open with minor delays. Perhaps the icing conditions were more severe or removal equipment broke down or there was a staffing problem.

readytotaxi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:31 pm

Seems it open again. AA1260 from Mia just landed.

747-600X · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:36 pm

So weird. UAE203's RADAR tag says it's going to BOS now, but they're lined up for JFK. And yeah they reopened it pretty quickly.

dispatchguy · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:38 pm

I'm listening to LiveATC and KJFK is operational - B/A Fair

Lofty · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:41 pm

A USA airport closed due snow! but you never have problems based on all you guys keep having a poke at the UK when we have snow. lol

jcwr56 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting Lofty (Reply 10):
A USA airport closed due snow! but you never have problems based on all you guys keep having a poke at the UK when we have snow. lol

Lets correct this....It's those East Coast folks. Us here in the Midwest know how to handle it.

LFutia · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 11):

Mmmh We (ORD) didnt close down when we got 19 inches of snow / 48 cm on 2 February 2015. We chugged along just fine albeit huge numbers of cancellations.

Leo/ORD

richierich · Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting Lofty (Reply 10):
A USA airport closed due snow! but you never have problems based on all you guys keep having a poke at the UK when we have snow. lol

Let's not get crazy! LHR would have been closed for days given what JFK received.

readytotaxi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Been watching for the last 20 mins, seems they have just one runway available,31L, for arrivals and departures.
Lines are building.

ORDJOE · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting Lofty (Reply 10):

A USA airport closed due snow! but you never have problems based on all you guys keep having a poke at the UK when we have snow. lol

JFK closed for 90 minutes from several inches of snow and ice. LHR was jacked up for days from a cm of snow. Not quite the same comparison.

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 13):

The truth is NE USA winters aren't really that cold. NJ averages a high of 5c in January, not exactly cold.

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:12 pm

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 15):

Well it wasn't exactly a CM of snow. We do get snow in the UK you know, infact it snowed here yesterday.

RetiredWeasel · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:27 pm

One poster mentioned 'freezing rain'. At my former airlines and I'm sure it's similar at others, takeoffs in freezing rain were prohibited. I'm not following the actual wx reports.

roseflyer · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:33 pm

Jetblue had some interesting diversion destinations. Two planes went to Atlantic city and another to Scranton and one to Stewart and Hartford.

WJ · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 16):
The truth is NE USA winters aren't really that cold. NJ averages a high of 5c in January, not exactly cold.

That makes NJ and NY right on the ice line every winter. Would much rather be colder with snow. Ice makes travel much more dangerous and airline operations far worse.

psolk · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 16):

Do you know what the weather has been like here the past few months? You are talking nonsense right now.

I woke up Friday to 0F with a feels like of -23F or -30C with the wind chill and another layer of snow here in "not exactly cold" NJ... Most days here this winter have not been above freezing and most nights are single digits in Fahrenheit. I have about 14-16 inches outside without the drifts. Last week a local girl was hospitalized after 30 minutes outside in the snow due to frostbite and requires surgery on her legs. I actually had a water delivery Friday AM and by the time I got out at 9am the entire thing had frozen and literally blown the bottom out of a 5 gallon Jug of water for my cooler.

Now even with all of that my last flight from EWR to LHR 2 weeks ago I drove to the airport at 5am in 4 inches of snow with temps about 15F and took off an hour late for de-icing in freezing temps and 4-6 inches of snow at EWR. I would have been stuck for days at LHR!! Only so much your "gritters" can do over there LOL!

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting RetiredWeasel (Reply 18):
One poster mentioned 'freezing rain'.

KJFK 221116Z 00000KT 2 1/2SM -FZRASN BR OVC006 01/M01 A3015 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 3 SNB05 P0002 $

Quoting RetiredWeasel (Reply 18):
At my former airlines and I'm sure it's similar at others, takeoffs in freezing rain were prohibited.

It's prohibited at Canadian airports.

In addition, once the ramp is coated, it's extremely slippery and difficult to get off, making ground ops dangerous.

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting psolk (Reply 21):
Do you know what the weather has been like here the past few months? You are talking nonsense right now.

When I was 20, I knew my father was ignorant. I was surprised how much he'd learned by the time I turned 30.

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 23):

I am not ignorant. I have my own weather station and track weather frequently.

GrahamR · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting psolk (Reply 21):
You are talking nonsense right now

Eh? FrostyJ? Talking nonsense? Surely not

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 23):
When I was 20, I knew my father was ignorant. I was surprised how much he'd learned by the time I turned 30

Excellent!!

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting psolk (Reply 21):

Ok the first thing I would say to you is that we do actually have snowplows and it does snow here. I don't actually live in the south of England where it basically doesn't snow at all. I have had 27 days of snow falling here and we are due 10cm tonight.

Anyhow thats neither here nor there, yes I have seen the weather there and it is very cold but you must remember that it can also reach 15c there in the winter due to its latitude and contintential climatic conditions. It still isn't that cold on average hence NJ sometimes being on the rainy side of the storm.

[Edited 2015-02-22 09:17:56]

GrahamR · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 26):
in the south of England where it basically doesn't snow at all

This assertion is incorrect

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting GrahamR (Reply 25):
yes I have seen the weather there and it is very cold

Cold is not the point. Did you look at the METAR:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 22):
KJFK 221116Z 00000KT 2 1/2SM -FZRASN BR OVC006 01/M01 A3015 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 3 SNB05 P0002 $

I assume you can interpret it

Quoting frostyj (Reply 24):
I have my own weather station and track weather frequently.

psolk · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 26):

Again, Nonsense... It is not often 65F in winter in NY/NJ and on average the past few winters have been brutally cold. Yes, it "can" be 65F here in winter, it can also snow in Jerusalem but it doesn't happen often.

I live in NJ, my family lives in Leeds, trust me I am exposed to both sides of the pond's ability to deal with it and this is a losing battle for you as is your assertion NJ isn't that cold in the winter... You go back to your own weather station now, I am going to take advantage of our ONE 40F day this year before we are back to a high of 25 tomorrow... LOL

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting GrahamR (Reply 27):

LOL. Just please I didn't mean it literally just that it maybe snows once a year and sticks and they make a big fuss but in Scotland and NI it snows quite infrequently during the winter months.

Anyway I just wanted to make my point as they were wrong about the climate.

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:27 pm

Quoting psolk (Reply 29):

Please assert yourself and look at this. You will see a change from a high of 19c (!!!) in January and -4c

http://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-2013/ws-725020.html

Eagleboy · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 26):
........ I don't actually live in the south of England where it basically doesn't snow at all. I have had 27 days of snow falling here and we are due 10cm tonight.

Quoting GrahamR (Reply 27):
This assertion is incorrect

Quoting frostyj (Reply 30):
LOL. Just please I didn't mean it literally...........
Anyway I just wanted to make my point as they were wrong about the climate.

I would mostly ignore frostj/owenc.....

he often mistakes his personal opinion and experiences for FACT.....and likes to dispute anyone who contradicts his opinion..even if they work in the industry.

psolk · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:39 pm

Now try 2015 but nice try....
http://en.tutiempo.net/climate/01-2015/ws-725020.html

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting psolk (Reply 33):

Um yeah it reached 13c and had many days of 3c which I have had. I had a high of 2c the other day and snow.

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 30):
they were wrong about the climate.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 31):
Please assert yourself and look at this. You will see a change from a high of 19c (!!!) in January and -4c

All of which is completely irrelevant The only thing that's relevant is actual weather at JFK, which I've posted twice for your edification. Here it is again:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 22):
KJFK 221116Z 00000KT 2 1/2SM -FZRASN BR OVC006 01/M01 A3015 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 3 SNB05 P0002 $

Since you obviously don't know what it means (despite having your own weather station), there was mist, light snow and freezing rain.

Freezing rain = no ops - get it?. Doesn't matter what the "climate" is.

[Edited 2015-02-22 09:47:44]

a/c dxer · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 35):
Since you obviously don't know what it means (despite having your own weather station), there was mist, light snow and freezing rain.

Get it - freezing rain = no ops. Doesn't matter what the "climate" is.

Actually - freezing rain you can still operate.

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Yes I do know.

Freezing rain and snow, overcast at 600 feet. Temp of 1c and dew point of -1c. Clearly nothing exceptional which is why I had todig in when they gave their little dig.

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 37):
Clearly nothing exceptional

Then you know nothing about ops requirements in freezing rain, and there's obviously no point in trying to educate you.

747-600X · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:13 pm

Wow. How did this, of all things, turn into a "you're an ignorant ___", "well you're a stupid Brit", "yeah, well, your mom is a retarded Dixie ____!"

Seriously, people. It was ONE NOTAM I posted, not a freakin' declaration of human injustice...

finnishway · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:22 pm

I just don't understand why snow seems to be the problem in that area annually.
It happens almost every year at the same time, why don't they learn from the past?

Maybe it is so weird for me, because I am used to snow and snow is rarely a reason for flight cancellations here in Finland. You just need more equipment with well trained staff and snow will not be so big problem anymore.

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 40):
snow is rarely a reason for flight cancellations here in Finland.

Same in Canada. But what they had at JFK was freezing rain, which (even in Canada) causes ops to stop.

nikeherc · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:49 pm

How many airports in Finland have the operational tempo of JFK, EWR and LGA? Not a dig, a question. If you get pure snow, it seems easier to handle than snow, freezing rain and sleet. At any rate, it appears that JFK has a handle on the problem and is back on line promptly.

LAXintl · Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:52 pm

Freezing Rain can be the kiss of death for an operation.

From Flight Ops Manual of United for example.....

PROHIBITED OPERATIONS
Flights may not operate when, in the opinion of the Captain or Dispatcher, icing
conditions are expected or encountered that might adversely affect the safety of the
flight (FAR 121.629).
Takeoff is prohibited under the following conditions:
• Moderate Freezing Rain (FZRA)
• Heavy Freezing Rain (+FZRA)
• Heavy Freezing Drizzle (+FZDZ)
• Heavy snow pellets/small hail (+GS)
• Hail (GR) any
• Heavy ice pellets (+PL)
• Moderate ice pellets (PL) mixed with any other form of precipitation
• Light ice pellets (-PL) at certain temperatures mixed with other forms of
precipitation. (See Ice Pellet table in the Cold Weather Card or the iPad.)
• Rain (RA) on cold soaked wing 0°C and below
• FZDZ, -FZRA, -SNRA below -10°C
• If, under any circumstance, the pilot cannot determine that the aircraft is free of
frozen contaminants.

Eagleboy · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting 747-600X (Reply 39):
Wow. How did this, of all things, turn into a "you're an ignorant ___", "well you're a stupid Brit", "yeah, well, your mom is a retarded Dixie ____!"

Seriously, people. It was ONE NOTAM I posted, not a freakin' declaration of human injustice...

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 38):
Then you know nothing about ops requirements in freezing rain, and there's obviously no point in trying to educate you.

Welcome to the world of frostj. He has already been banned from 2 Irish forums (under the name owenc) for trolling and generally causing mayhem in thread.

finnishway · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 42):
How many airports in Finland have the operational tempo of JFK, EWR and LGA? Not a dig, a question. If you get pure snow, it seems easier to handle than snow, freezing rain and sleet. At any rate, it appears that JFK has a handle on the problem and is back on line promptly.

Well, we may not have same size of airports, but Helsinki Airport is still very busy here in Finland.

You may say we get only pure snow, but the fact is that Helsinki Airport was last totally closed in 2003 and for just 30 minutes. So the airport has not been closed because of a weather for over a decade.

And yes, we get freezing rain also. Weather here can be sometimes very cold, but that is not a problem, it just means more de-icing work. Flights may be delayed, but airport won't be closed because of a little snow storm.

Even the BBC and CNN have wondered how they operate the airport in Helsinki, because it basically never closes and flights come and go and passengers are happy.

You have to be fool if you say that JFK is always closed because of freezing rain. How many times it has been closed this year already? I would say at least two days.

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 45):
And yes, we get freezing rain also. Weather here can be sometimes very cold, but that is not a problem, it just means more de-icing work.

Freezing rain doesn't happen at very low temperatures, as it's caused by a temperature inversion with a thin layer of air at or just below 0C at ground level. Honest question - how do you de-ice the ramp, baggage loaders, etc?

finnishway · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 46):
Honest question - how do you de-ice the ramp, baggage loaders, etc?

Well apparently well in Helsinki, since they found glycol under the airport in tunnels a few years ago.

You don't need complete ice free airport to be able to operate from there. You don't need to de-ice the ramp, because aircraft can be moved with pushback vehicles also. Baggage loaders don't need to be ice free, they will run easily even if it is snowing that famous freezing rain.

Airplanes get de-icing two or three times before they takeoff. You don't also need a runway free from ice, but then you need to be careful with the landing. Landing on ice is not even abnormal and you as a Canadian, I presume, should know that.

If I am not wrong I think you can also handle flights quite well in Canada and there are even more extreme conditions.
Same thing is in Norway and Sweden, they handle airports well during winters.

But when it comes to airports like JFK and LHR, then there seem to be a lot of problems.

frostyj · Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:42 pm

Anyone who gets snow knows that the dry hard packed variety isn't that bad. Its the slushy stuff that is the slippery stuff.

You could easily move a plane on the dry hard packed snow.

finnishway · Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 48):
You could easily move a plane on the dry hard packed snow.

You could do that anywhere anytime even with the slushy stuff. Slushy snow is pretty much as normal as dry snow at least here. Normal thing when the spring comes, it just will be cleared and operations will continue.

I just think that some persons take weather sometimes too seriously. For example these outside travelling bans because of a snow storm. There are no travel bans or restrictions here in Finland at all, it doesn't matter even if it is snowing one meter of snow in one hour. Everybody can think themselves is it wise to go outside or drive with a car.

[Edited 2015-02-22 12:04:33]

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