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dc10lover
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Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:20 pm

Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:40 pm

SEA needs more international capability. Alaska campaigns fiercely against it since they are at war with DL. Landing fees are high and if Delta changes its mind, SEA could end up with more capacity than needed.
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Cosmopolitaine
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:09 am

SEA could be an important international hub for trans-pacific flights. At least DL is already working on that. Hainan Airlines' PEK-SEA route is said to be very successful and it is about to fly PVG-SEA route.

SEA has a better location for connection to Northeast and Mid-west than SFO, LAX, and DFW. However, the O&D PAX from SEA to China and Korea is far lower than SFO and LAX (as of 2011 data by Brookings Study).
 
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STT757
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:16 am

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 2):
SEA has a better location for connection to Northeast and Mid-west than SFO, LAX, and DFW. However, the O&D PAX from SEA to China and Korea is far lower than SFO and LAX (as of 2011 data by Brookings Study).

SEA is very much like BOS. While perfectly suitated for connections to Europe, Boston's international traffic pales compared to EWR, JFK, PHL and IAD to the South.
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Sooner787
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:39 am

Wasn't there talk of opening KPAE to commercials flights at one time?
 
grrtvc
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:32 am

G4 was talking of starting service out of KPAE about 2 years ago to LAS and a couple of other locatiins. AS also "announced" they would add service too. Two big issues though prevent KPAE from having commercial service; no terminal and NIMBYs. The former isn't insurmountable. The airport would just need to find the money a build. The latter is probably more of an impidement to opening KPAE to scheduled commercial operations.
 
PITrules
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:13 am

"According to Sea-Tac officials, the airport handled 23,200 passengers per acre in 2013. That’s more than other old urban airports, such as in Boston, which handled 18,880 per acre, and Newark, New Jersey, which handled 20,590."

Interesting metric.
FLYi
 
Cosmopolitaine
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:22 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 6):
Interesting metric.

I don't know if it is the area of the terminal. If so, I think they might wanted to emphasize that the terminal is too crowded and need expansion?

If not (then it might be the area of the apron), I think "flight/acre" makes more sense since they might want to emphasize that the apron is too small to increase flight in a large scale.
 
PITrules
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:31 am

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 7):
I don't know if it is the area of the terminal. If so, I think they might wanted to emphasize that the terminal is too crowded and need expansion?

I took it to mean area of the entire airport; especially considering the prior paragraph:
"The airport site, at just 1,500 acres, seemed ample when it opened for commercial traffic in 1949, but it has become one of the most cramped of any major hub airport in the country. While newer hubs such as Dallas-Fort Worth, at 17,400 acres, and Denver, at 34,000 acres, have ample room to stretch out, Sea-Tac has fewer options.

According to Sea-Tac officials, the airport handled 23,200 passengers per acre in 2013. That’s more than other old urban airports, such as in Boston, which handled 18,880 per acre, and Newark, New Jersey, which handled 20,590.
"

It would be interesting to see airports ranked using this. I would imagine LGA, with 26 million pax on 700 acres would come in at #1.
FLYi
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:32 am

Quoting grrtvc (Reply 5):
G4 was talking of starting service out of KPAE about 2 years ago to LAS and a couple of other locatiins. AS also "announced" they would add service too. Two big issues though prevent KPAE from having commercial service; no terminal and NIMBYs. The former isn't insurmountable. The airport would just need to find the money a build. The latter is probably more of an impidement to opening KPAE to scheduled commercial operations.

The money part may already be found.

There is a privately funded terminal plan discussed last week by the county council. The council is considering the terms of the ground lease for the site at PAE.

Quote:
People who oppose commercial passenger flights at Paine Field turned out in force Tuesday at the Snohomish County Council's first public discussion of a lease proposal that could make their fear a reality.

If approved by county leaders, an option to lease would give New York-based Propeller Airports three years to design a two-gate passenger terminal and perform environmental studies. After that, Propeller could sign a 30-year lease, with two optional 10-year extensions. The company would pay for building and operating the facility.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20150218/NEWS01/150219176
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F9Animal
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:52 am

Will SEA ever see the A380 perhaps?
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:40 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 6):
"According to Sea-Tac officials, the airport handled 23,200 passengers per acre in 2013. That’s more than other old urban airports, such as in Boston, which handled 18,880 per acre, and Newark, New Jersey, which handled 20,590."

Interesting metric.

Seems like SAN would be high on this list too. Small airport size for large city.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:54 am

Seattle has a lot of Canadians using it to help keep numbers up. Boston wouldn't. The N gates are crammed during rush, I find. I wonder how many irrops or weather delays SEA would have compared to SFO?

I found SEA to be easy to get to now that they have a train to the airport.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:31 am

SEA is a relatively younger city as far as its development into a major population center. While cities like NY, SF, and Chicago were well established at the dawn of aviation, Seattle's population hasn't changed much from 1950, but the suburban population has roughly quadrupled since that time.

DL's decision to use it as a hub was logical. SFO has a major hub, LAX is a strange triple hub for AA, UA, and DL, which means it's not really a hub for any of them, and so that leaves SEA as the only other major metropolitan area that can support a major airline hub.

I'm not knocking PDX, but PDX would have trouble supporting a major hub, although I could see AA grabbing it if operational needs require it.
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Okie
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 6):
Interesting metric.

Interesting indeed. I personally would have thought MDW would be at the top of the list considering that metric.

My thought is if DL or AS for that matter is planning on continued expansion then DL/AS is going to have to put some skin in the game with some long term leases.

Okie
 
airbazar
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
SEA is very much like BOS. While perfectly suitated for connections to Europe, Boston's international traffic pales compared to EWR, JFK, PHL and IAD to the South.

Be careful what you say. I suggested that once and the SEA fanboys went nuts. Apparently because SEA is an official hub it's an insult to suggest that it's like a non-hub airport such as BOS 
 
grrtvc
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 9):
The money part may already be found.

There is a privately funded terminal plan discussed last week by the county council. The council is considering the terms of the ground lease for the site at PAE.

Ah, didn't catch this in the news. Thanks for posting.
 
Travelmanager
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:07 pm

The average fare for many international destinations is considerably higher than rival cities. I think there is still ample opportunity for more international airlines to start service. Gate space at S could be what is holding them back.
 
ckfred
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
DL's decision to use it as a hub was logical. SFO has a major hub, LAX is a strange triple hub for AA, UA, and DL, which means it's not really a hub for any of them, and so that leaves SEA as the only other major metropolitan area that can support a major airline hub.

I'm not knocking PDX, but PDX would have trouble supporting a major hub, although I could see AA grabbing it if operational needs require it.

Didn't DL try PDX as an Asian gateway in the 1990s? I seem to recall that when DL bought their MD-11s, they were flying between the few Asian destinations that DL served and PDX, while the 763s and L-1011-500s were flying to Europe from ATL, JFK, and CVG.
 
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
Be careful what you say. I suggested that once and the SEA fanboys went nuts. Apparently because SEA is an official hub it's an insult to suggest that it's like a non-hub airport such as BOS 

lol I would go nuts too ... comparing BOS, the European city in (new) England, being compared to this lost city in the mountain clouds of nowhere, SEA 

Drop a Seattlite on the airside of BOS Terminal E in the late-afternoon / early-evening rush hour ... he/she would be dazed and confused as to which European airport it is!

ok - before I get flamed - I love SEA. It is the prettiest city in North America ... and I went to UW, ok?  
 
harim
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:40 pm

Hopefully there can be a road map to improve facilities for customers - more dining options, etc.

When coming from China, or Europe, SEA feels dowdy - it's main attraction: it is not LAX.
 
LH707330
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting harim (Reply 20):
When coming from China, or Europe, SEA feels dowdy - it's main attraction: it is not LAX.

Yeah, the S terminal is best avoided at rush hour.

On the point of the pax/acre, it's potentially misleading because all of the runways are parallel and thus take up less space. As mentioned upthread, I think the biggest bottleneck is the number of gates, especially at S now that Delta's been expanding. There may be some space to extend A and D a few gates on either end, but the spacing could get a bit tight on the north end. As a temporary fix, they could always repurpose some of the charter ramp and send buses out there, though the pax would hate it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 21):
There may be some space to extend A and D a few gates on either end, but the spacing could get a bit tight on the north end. As a temporary fix, they could always repurpose some of the charter ramp and send buses out there, though the pax would hate it.

There have been discussions about tearing down a hangar on the south side of the airport and extending A quite a bit further. N and I believe S can both be expanded. There are certainly options available.

-Dave
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yeelep
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:58 pm

The latest potential extension of the A gates would require the removal of Delta's and Alaska's hangars.

http://old.seattletimes.com/html/bus...gy/2025558052_seatacgrowthxml.html
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
I'm not knocking PDX, but PDX would have trouble supporting a major hub

Indeed, and who'd know that better than DL...
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Stitch
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting harim (Reply 20):
Hopefully there can be a road map to improve facilities for customers - more dining options, etc.

The existing facilities (especially in the Central Terminal) are pretty impressive, in my (admittedly local) view.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 21):
As a temporary fix, they could always repurpose some of the charter ramp and send buses out there, though the pax would hate it.

I think that's bound to happen at least temporarily while (first) the new International Arrivals building and (second) the new North terminal are completed.

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 12):
I wonder how many irrops or weather delays SEA would have compared to SFO?

Much, much fewer, especially now that the third runway is online.

Quoting DC10LOVER (Thread starter):
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...ional-warns-of-need-for-expansion/

SEA definitely needs expansion, but take the numbers in the article with a large grain of salt. They essentially assume a nonstop economic boom for the next twenty years. When things have been as crazy as they have here for the last couple of years, we tend to assume the boom will go on forever. It won't.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:48 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Thread starter):

There is money to be made here.

Yeah, for the construction companies. One can make a very strong argument that SEA is already overserved for its market size. SEA airport leaders are asking for trouble.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 26):
SEA definitely needs expansion, but take the numbers in the article with a large grain of salt. They essentially assume a nonstop economic boom for the next twenty years. When things have been as crazy as they have here for the last couple of years, we tend to assume the boom will go on forever. It won't.

Yep. I've said it before and will say it again, projections such as these are how white elephants are made.
 
grrtvc
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:03 pm

SEA is in a position where adding a few gates to address current demand isn't easily achievable. To add nearly anything will require major work; i.e. demo hangars, realign roads, etc. As noted above, the quick, dirty, and cheap option is to use a remote parking location and bus passengers. Not the image the airport or any of the airlines would want long term.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 21):
As a temporary fix, they could always re-purpose some of the charter ramp and send buses out there, though the pax would hate it.

So then the question becomes, do you spend a lot of money now in the short term or do you spend a lot of money for a long term solution? Neither of which anyone really likes.
 
LH707330
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting grrtvc (Reply 28):
Quoting LH707330 (Reply 21):
As a temporary fix, they could always re-purpose some of the charter ramp and send buses out there, though the pax would hate it.

So then the question becomes, do you spend a lot of money now in the short term or do you spend a lot of money for a long term solution? Neither of which anyone really likes.

It would strike me as prudent to invest now and overbuild a bit so that there's enough supply for the future, but given past infrastructure wrangles around here, I think it will be messier and we'll end up with the buses.
 
visakow
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:27 pm

G4 out of KPAE - Southwest has been pushing for years. City of Everett over 105K but NIMBY's - especially Mukilteo causin a storm.Expect any overflow out of BLI . Skagit airport with a 2,000 extension and new terminal. They have the land. but probably will never happen. to close to Whidbey NAS.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):

Didn't DL try PDX as an Asian gateway in the 1990s?

Yes they did. And you will notice that they are no longer hubbed there. I wonder why?  
-Doc Lightning-

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flybynight
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:40 pm

With all the talk of additional international flight to SEA (which I think would be great...as long as the international entry point can handle it), why doesn't AS look at the potential of international flights (beyond Western Canada and Mexico)? If AS doesn't want to buy longer-range planes like the 787 (which would be such a good choice!) , maybe flights into the Caribbean or further south in Central America? Seems to me that if AS wants to hold its ground against DL, it needs to get aggressive with expansion. Or maybe I'm just hoping I can jump on an AS 787 and take me back to Europe.  

[Edited 2015-02-23 12:41:44]
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting visakow (Reply 30):

G4 out of KPAE - Southwest has been pushing for years. City of Everett over 105K but NIMBY's - especially Mukilteo causin a storm.Expect any overflow out of BLI . Skagit airport with a 2,000 extension and new terminal. They have the land. but probably will never happen. to close to Whidbey NAS.

While there are a couple of alternate airport options, PAE really is the only one that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately that is moving very slowly, if at all, and two gates will make AZA and GYY look huge. lol

I did hear that at one time G4 was kicking the tires over at Bremerton, but nothing came of that. BFI is also seemingly not workable. BLI is too far for all but the most determined. After that, you run out of viable options.

Long term, SEA needs to build a new North Terminal and do some serious work on the entire S satellite area of the complex. Anything else is just band-aids.

-Dave
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bhill
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting visakow (Reply 30):
G4 out of KPAE - Southwest has been pushing for years. City of Everett over 105K but NIMBY's - especially Mukilteo causin a storm.Expect any overflow out of BLI . Skagit airport with a 2,000 extension and new terminal. They have the land. but probably will never happen. to close to Whidbey NAS.

Skagit would be perfect...or Arlington even. Not sure how Boeing would feel sharing PAE with commercial flights....Keep in mind the increased car traffic...It's bad enough during the rush hour/shift change.
Carpe Pices
 
ckfred
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):

Didn't DL try PDX as an Asian gateway in the 1990s?

Yes they did. And you will notice that they are no longer hubbed there. I wonder why?

That stems from what airlines learned in the late 80s and early 90s, that a hub airport has to generate sufficient O&D traffic to be viable.
 
Airnerd
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:56 pm

It's not like PAE has a lot of room for a passenger terminal. And Boeing has large aircraft parked on pretty much all available tarmac.
 
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ordell
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:00 pm

Looking at SEA on Google Earth, one thing is abundantly clear: there is no room to expand. It's surrounded on all four sides. So I don't know how much expansion there is.

Also, Seattle is an ideal gateway to Asia, but is it a destination or pass-through? SFO and LAX are destinations because LA and SF are destinations, both business and personal. There are tons of Asian businesses in LA and SF and good reason to fly there. Seattle isn't the tourist destination LA and SF are. So what is the point of bringing folks in rather than just have them fly another 2 hours or so to SFO or LAX?

If the point is to make SEA a hub, where Asian fliers come in and US fliers to Asia all depart from there, then SEA-TAC would need to greatly increase its domestic traffic to bring those folks in and out.

So where does SEA go from here?
 
nwray
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:23 pm

So how important are those hangars to Alaska and Delta? Would Sea-Tac assist in helping the airlines rebuild them at Boeing Field or elsewhere?
 
Caryjack
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting Cosmopolitaine (Reply 2):
SEA could be an important international hub for trans-pacific flights. At least DL is already working on that. Hainan Airlines' PEK-SEA route is said to be very successful and it is about to fly PVG-SEA route.

SEA has a better location for connection to Northeast and Mid-west than SFO, LAX, and DFW. However, the O&D PAX from SEA to China and Korea is far lower than SFO and LAX (as of 2011 data by Brookings Study).

This sounds about right to me. SEA is hundreds of miles closer to PEK, PVG, HKG, etc than SFO or LAX. SEA also is a better location for connections from western Canada and Alaska.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
SEA is very much like BOS. While perfectly situated for connections to Europe, Boston's international traffic pales compared to EWR, JFK, PHL and IAD to the South.

The difference is that the major airports you mention are all within 400 miles of BOS. The closest similar airport to SEA is SFO which is 900 miles to the south. Go another 400 miles to reach the 2nd closest: LAX. Numbers 3 & 4 are 2 time zones to the east.   

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 10):
Will SEA ever see the A380 perhaps?

Ever is a long time. This thread is about the pros and cons of expanding SEA, and clearly the addition of A-380s would require additional expansion. Who but EK would fly it? EK did up-gauge to a 77W on the SEA route but there's nothing I am aware of about location or connections that would justify another up-gauge. SEA does consolidate unique and varied cargo so an EK 77F could show up.

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 12):
I found SEA to be easy to get to now that they have a train to the airport.

It was easier and quicker (except roll-on luggage) on the Metro bus. That bus route stopped when the train started.

Quoting ASA (Reply 19):
this lost city in the mountain clouds of nowhere, SEA 

Truer than you may realize.

Thanks,   
Cary
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting flybynight (Reply 32):

With all the talk of additional international flight to SEA (which I think would be great...as long as the international entry point can handle it), why doesn't AS look at the potential of international flights (beyond Western Canada and Mexico)? If AS doesn't want to buy longer-range planes like the 787 (which would be such a good choice!) , maybe flights into the Caribbean or further south in Central America? Seems to me that if AS wants to hold its ground against DL, it needs to get aggressive with expansion. Or maybe I'm just hoping I can jump on an AS 787 and take me back to Europe.  

The MAX will solve a lot of those challenges, though I doubt there are oodles of opportunities in those markets for them.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:47 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 40):

Quoting flybynight (Reply 32):

With all the talk of additional international flight to SEA (which I think would be great...as long as the international entry point can handle it), why doesn't AS look at the potential of international flights (beyond Western Canada and Mexico)? If AS doesn't want to buy longer-range planes like the 787 (which would be such a good choice!) , maybe flights into the Caribbean or further south in Central America? Seems to me that if AS wants to hold its ground against DL, it needs to get aggressive with expansion. Or maybe I'm just hoping I can jump on an AS 787 and take me back to Europe.  

The MAX will solve a lot of those challenges, though I doubt there are oodles of opportunities in those markets for them.

-Dave

They have an even better hub to expand their international operations, and that is in ANC.
 
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ER757
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting ordell (Reply 37):
There are tons of Asian businesses in LA and SF and good reason to fly there. S

There's more than a few businesses in the Seattle area that attract business flyers from Asia - ever heard of Microsoft, Starbucks, Amazon, Nintendo, or Boeing? And that's just a few.

Quoting ordell (Reply 37):
So what is the point of bringing folks in rather than just have them fly another 2 hours or so to SFO or LAX?

Quite a few cruises to Alaska depart from Seattle - lots and lots of people fly to SEA to catch a cruise. There's also a great deal of tourism-related travel to SEA itself. No, not of the scale of Los Angeles but not insignificant either.
 
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RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 4):
Wasn't there talk of opening KPAE to commercials flights at one time?

PAE will see commercial cargo flights in the next few years. Not passenger service.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
Be careful what you say. I suggested that once and the SEA fanboys went nuts. Apparently because SEA is an official hub it's an insult to suggest that it's like a non-hub airport such as BOS

BOS isn't a hub? I'm confused..

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 33):
I did hear that at one time G4 was kicking the tires over at Bremerton, but nothing came of that. BFI is also seemingly not workable. BLI is too far for all but the most determined. After that, you run out of viable options.

There's always RNT...  
 
dc10lover
Topic Author
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:22 am

It’s unfair to tax all Sea-Tac passengers for new international terminal

http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/...rs-for-new-international-terminal/
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6411
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 33):
I did hear that at one time G4 was kicking the tires over at Bremerton, but nothing came of that. BFI is also seemingly not workable. BLI is too far for all but the most determined. After that, you run out of viable options.

There's always RNT...

Now that's an idea. I'm sure the MD-80 would be able to get to at least YKM. Maybe the 757 could do OAK.
 
LH707330
Posts: 2416
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 39):
The closest similar airport to SEA is SFO which is 900 miles to the south. Go another 400 miles to reach the 2nd closest: LAX.
Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 44):
It’s unfair to tax all Sea-Tac passengers for new international terminal

From the article:

Quote:

But why should every customer using our airport be charged for a project that would service just those passengers arriving from an international location, a group that constitutes only 10 percent of total passenger traffic?

One can make the claim about just about any tax: "the payer and the user are not the same, so it's unfair." I'm curious to know what the per-user fee looks like before getting too riled up about this. Ideally they'd charge int'l enplanements, but it's a step better than just hiking sales tax to pay for some nonsense like the over-budget/off spec tunnel.
 
edmountain
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:00 pm

RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
SEA is very much like BOS. While perfectly suitated for connections to Europe, Boston's international traffic pales compared to EWR, JFK, PHL and IAD to the South.

I struggle to believe that international traffic from BOS pales when compared to PHL. Would love to be proven wrong though.
 
rentonview
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:01 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 27):
One can make a very strong argument that SEA is already overserved for its market size. SEA airport leaders are asking for trouble.

It's not about market size; it's about O&D traffic and regional importance. Even without DL, SEA has international flights on foreign carriers to LHR, FRA, KEF, DXB, NRT, ICN (2), PEK, TPE, plus numerous destinations in Canada and Mexico. That alone should tell you that there's more than enough O&D demand to warrant an investment in a new international arrivals facility.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 27):
Yep. I've said it before and will say it again, projections such as these are how white elephants are made.

I understand the concern about building new facilities based on future passenger projections, but that's not the issue here. The current international arrivals facility at SEA is vintage early '70s, located in the bowels of of the South Satellite, with absolutely no room for expansion. It becomes a madhouse at certain times of day and requires claiming bags twice, which is extremely confusing to travelers. There's no question that the facility needs to be replaced in some way, and the current proposal would simply bring SEA into the 21st century, not create a potential white elephant. Even if DL were to pack up some day, the new IAF will be fully utilized by existing and future international carriers.

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 44):

It’s unfair to tax all Sea-Tac passengers for new international terminal

I'm neither a DL nor an AS fanboy, but AS' attempt to manipulate public opinion on this issue is wearing thin. I wholeheartedly agree that the IAF's price tag is immense and requires scrutiny. I also understand that AS isn't keen on DL becoming a primary recipient/user of the massive investment, and it's certainly their right to protest what they consider an unfair distribution of the passenger facility charges. But Alaska's statement that "the proposed scheme is unfair to local taxpayers," is intentionally misleading and sleazy. Airport users (passengers), not general taxpayers, are funding the IAF project, as well as many other projects at Sea-Tac, all of which AS has benefitted from in some way. If AS thinks the funding for the IAF should come from another source, fine, but I wish they'd stop throwing around the T word (taxes).

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 39):

So how important are those hangars to Alaska and Delta? Would Sea-Tac assist in helping the airlines rebuild them at Boeing Field or elsewhere?

Given that SEA is AS' largest hub, having a hangar there is non-negotiable. However, now that the golf course at the south end of the airfield has closed, there could be an opportunity to utilize that area for new hangars or cargo facilities. It would require significant regrading and environmental mitigation, and we know how costly those sorts of things can become (as exemplified by the $1 billion+ third runway project).
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

RE: Seattle-Tacoma Warns Of Need For Expansion

Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:34 am

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 46):
One can make the claim about just about any tax: "the payer and the user are not the same, so it's unfair."

That would be why the total tax load on rental cars at SEA is approaching 30%. Not sure that argument will get very far.

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