DFW Ice Storm Update?

ipodguy7 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:02 am

Hey everyone,
Dallas got hit by heavy rain today, temps are plummeting now, and every station is predicting an inch+ of sleet and freezing rain (on top of the freezing roads/taxiways/runways) overnight (mostly from 3-9am). Does anyone have any further updates as to DFW operations tonight/tomorrow? I'm assuming that freezing rain would put a hault to most of the operations.

Thanks.

Flightaware showing 36 minute average outbound delays (As of time of this post). Will be intersting to track this through the night/into the morning (when the 2nd round is supposed to hit).
Flightaware DFW

[Edited 2015-02-22 18:06:36]

deltaffindfw · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:21 am

AA has cancelled 961 flights so far.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...-thousand-dfw-flights-monday.html/

777dfw · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:34 am

I'm supposed to be flying LAX-DFW tomorrow night. Any chance it will be cancelled?

Sooner787 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 1):
AA has cancelled 961 flights so far.

I just checked Flightaware & it shows EK221 on it's way to DFW,

it will arrive around 9am tomorrow, right in the middle of the sleet and ice.

I assume they have enough fuel to divert to IAH if DFW is too messy

IAHflyer97 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:08 am

So will IAH end up getting 4 A380's tomorrow, plus the other heavies that may have to divert?

iowaman · Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:27 am

Does DFW or DAL have much for snow/ice removal equipment? I'm assuming that far south any type of equipment is limited.

Sooner787 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:38 am

I also noticed on Flightaware that QF8 pushed back 90 minutes ago

and still shows "taxiing" status. I can only assume they're de-icing

the big bird. That's got to be quite a job.

texdravid · Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:01 am

Like usual, American cancels early and often. My overnight AA 1230 SEA-DFW was cancelled this morning 12 hrs before departure!
Alaska still shows on time departure at 2350 SEA-DFW.

Also, WN at DAL stays open and reopens quickly.

In the December 2013 ice event DFW was a fail for days, while DAL was right back open.

sccutler · Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:13 am

AA certainly does rush to cancel, don't they? Seems rater precipitate.

My employees have already started emailing in about missing work.

29erUSA187 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:47 am

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 1):
AA has cancelled 961 flights so far.

Wow! Thats a lot of flights!

Quoting sccutler (Reply 8):
AA certainly does rush to cancel, don't they? Seems rater precipitate.

My employees have already started emailing in about missing work.

I'd rather them cancel early than leave me stranded somewhere with little notice. (*Ahem* UA I'm looking at you *Ahem*)

thomasphoto60 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 4):
So will IAH end up getting 4 A380's tomorrow, plus the other heavies that may have to divert?

IAH could get a bit interesting tomorrow. The possibility of four 380s on IAH's ramps, wow, while great for the local enthusiast community, a logistical nightmare for IAH ops and a miserable time for those unfortunate souls stuck on the birds while they wait for the weather to clear up north. Just curious as to when the QF flight is usually scheduled for their DFW arrival? Might have to make a trip out there, if she decides to head down to our neck of the woods.

texan · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:19 am

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):
while they wait for the weather to clear up north.

And it sounds like DFW will be below freezing for about 43 hours, with off and on sleet and ice. And possibly snow on Wednesday (although it looks like it will be at or above freezing for most of the day Wednesday).

Texan

glbltrvlr · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:45 am

AA cancelled 71 FRA-DFW today. Hope they don't do the same on Wednesday when I'm scheduled to take it back to the US.

AWACSooner · Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:01 am

Quoting texdravid (Reply 7):
Like usual, American cancels early and often.

If there's a lightning strike within 200 miles of DFW in the summer, AA starts delaying and canceling

uberflieger · Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:27 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 12):
AA cancelled 71 FRA-DFW today

I don't believe this was due to weather. FRA inbound 70 left DFW on 22 February as scheduled. Not sure what happened though.

glbltrvlr · Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 13):
If there's a lightning strike within 200 miles of DFW in the summer, AA starts delaying and canceling

Isn't that the truth! I sat on a taxiway for almost three hours once after we landed. Weather wasn't bad enough to prevent us from landing, but they pulled all the ramp staff indoors.

commavia · Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:57 pm

I was lucky - my flight made it into DFW this morning. But to the issue of AA being overly aggressive with cancelling, I will say this: the roads from the airport were bad, and getting worse as I drove. In this situation, it seems more than reasonable to me for AA to cut the operation to bare bones not only because of the direct operational impact of ice/sleet on the airport itself, but also on the ability (or lack thereof) of both passengers and employees to get into the airport.

glbltrvlr · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 14):

I don't believe this was due to weather. FRA inbound 70 left DFW on 22 February as scheduled.

I assume that's because it got out before DFW had to deal with ice and that it's sitting on the ramp here in Frankfurt. While the loads look light for a few days, I don't think they'll fly it empty back home.

jfklganyc · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:28 pm

America, you created this society through:

1. Social Media

2. Litigation

3. Elite Entitlement

You can't sit on plane for a few hours in bad weather because you will start tweeting about how horribly you are being treated by the big, bad airline. Worst experience of your life, I'm sure.

So enjoy your early (and sometimes needless) cancellations. And enjoy your extra time at home or in some far flung hotel.

And don't forget to tweet about A*A cancelling your flight for no reason!

Signed,

A smiling airline employee

commavia · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):

America, you created this society through:

1. Social Media

2. Litigation

3. Elite Entitlement

You can't sit on plane for a few hours in bad weather because you will start tweeting about how horribly you are being treated by the big, bad airline. Worst experience of your life, I'm sure.

So enjoy your early (and sometimes needless) cancellations. And enjoy your extra time at home or in some far flung hotel.

And don't forget to tweet about A*A cancelling your flight for no reason!

Signed,

A smiling airline employee

The power of incentives - economics 101. Provide a massive financial disincentive to delay a flight, and airlines will stop delaying flights. They'll just cancel them instead rather than worry about having to sort an operational mess and/or chaotic terminal.

uberflieger · Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 17):
it's sitting on the ramp here in Frankfurt

It diverted to JFK according to FlightAware.

blueflyer · Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:39 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):
IAH could get a bit interesting tomorrow. The possibility of four 380s on IAH's ramps, wow, while great for the local enthusiast community, a logistical nightmare for IAH ops and a miserable time for those unfortunate souls stuck on the birds while they wait for the weather to clear up north. Just curious as to when the QF flight is usually scheduled for their DFW arrival?

Emirates made it into DFW in between last night's sleet/ice storm and this morning's. Another storm coming as they are scheduled to depart though.
Qantas expected on time at 1:26.

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
I will say this: the roads from the airport were bad, and getting worse as I drove.

It's not just the airport that isn't well equipped for this weather, and with reason. Other than freezing temperatures on some days, there had been until now no sign whatsoever of winter in the DFW area.

glbltrvlr · Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 20):
It diverted to JFK according to FlightAware.

I was on AA70 on Saturday. Would not have been happy if I was diverted to JFK! With all the poor weather on the east coast, I'm surprised they chose to divert there.

DfwRevolution · Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
America, you created this society through:

1. Social Media
2. Litigation
3. Elite Entitlement

It's quite easy to scoff at a miserable situation from the comfort of your home or office. I, for one, don't wish multiple hours of tarmac delay on anyone. Depending on my reason for travel, I'd take a cancellation over a multi-hour delay.

jfklganyc · Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:01 pm

It is directed at the people complaining about A*A cancelling early.

They got their cancellation over a 5 hour delay.

texdravid · Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:05 pm

As I predicted, AS 623 had no problem whatsoever to land at 545am.

n9801f · Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 8):
precipitate

Very punny!

ozark1 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
America, you created this society through:

1. Social Media

2. Litigation

3. Elite Entitlement

You can't sit on plane for a few hours in bad weather because you will start tweeting about how horribly you are being treated by the big, bad airline. Worst experience of your life, I'm sure.

So enjoy your early (and sometimes needless) cancellations. And enjoy your extra time at home or in some far flung hotel.

And don't forget to tweet about A*A cancelling your flight for no reason!

Signed,

A smiling airline employee

No more accurate words were ever spoken!!! You actually complain about an airline erring on the side of caution. May I remind everyone that Kate Hanni was a passenger on AA's unfortunate flight that sat on the runway in AUS for 8 hours. She formed that group that got legislation passed that doesn't allow a plane to be on the tarmac for more than 3 hours. So what's it gonna be folks? You complain when they cancel, you complain when you sit on the tarmac, and my goodness, someone is lying! It's clear in DFW, and the thunderstorm is 200 miles away! Perhaps another behind-the-scenes documentary of the daily operations of an airline at their largest hub needs to be made. So let me call them up and ensure that they just do away with the de-icing so you can get where you are going. .

texdravid · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 24):

That's just the thing. All other airlines are having little or no delays!
This silly overblown ice storm is seemingly only affecting AA!

Before anyone gets all defensive AAbout their precious AA, I am an advantage elite who flies a lot more on them
than but a handful of people.

American again cancelled me today and scheduled me in a TUESDAY afternoon flight! Really???

Thank you AS who will take me today, like in 2 hours!
You have not cancelled even one DFW flight!

glbltrvlr · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 20):
It diverted to JFK according to FlightAware.

The more I think about it, the more I suspect the JFK diversion must have been for mechanical reasons. For medical they would have continued on and it doesn't seem to make sense that they killed an outbound flight because they were worried about return weather. That's a bit conservative, even for American.

Once the outbound is gone, I can't see AA flying a special section over for the return, so it gets cancelled as well.

Okie · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 28):
Thank you AS who will take me today, like in 2 hours!You have not cancelled even one DFW flight!

Things look pretty normal over at DAL midday, although the WN OKC-DAL 6:30a flight was cancelled.

Okie

us330 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:38 pm

According to flightaware, QF 7 just landed safely at DFW. No diversion.

ipodguy7 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting Okie (Reply 30):
Things look pretty normal over at DAL midday, although the WN OKC-DAL 6:30a flight was cancelled.

The most recent numbers I've seen in the Dallas Morning News Aviation Business section shows 998 AA cancellations at DFW and around 50 WN cancellations at DAL (I think these figures are inclusive of late last night and today's figures).

DMN

ipodguy7 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 28):
This silly overblown ice storm is seemingly only affecting AA!

DL has cancelled 4 of 5 DAL flights, UA cancelled 5 of 7 flights, VX cancelled 6. DFW looks like mostly just AA cancellations. Don't let your opinions get in the way of the facts.

[Edited 2015-02-23 11:50:21]

AWACSooner · Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 28):
That's just the thing. All other airlines are having little or no delays!
This silly overblown ice storm is seemingly only affecting AA!

Ding ding ding...game, set, match!

I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I've been screwed over by AA regarding IRops in DFW over the years...and half the time there's not a drop of rain in the entire area. It's almost always been precautionary. The times I've flown into DFW via UA/CO/DL while AA had IRops? Not a single delay/canx!

blueflyer · Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 28):
That's just the thing. All other airlines are having little or no delays!
This silly overblown ice storm is seemingly only affecting AA!

Because we all know that the infrastructure and personnel needed to run a handful of flights in a twice-a-year winter storm is directly comparable to the needs of hundreds of flight.

blueflyer · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:01 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 6):
I also noticed on Flightaware that QF8 pushed back 90 minutes ago and still shows "taxiing" status. I can only assume they're de-icing the big bird. That's got to be quite a job.

Sounds about right. Emirates left the gate at 12:46 at DFW, took off at 2.

texdravid · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:03 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 33):

Ha ha. Thanks for the advice, why I fly into DFW on AS.
By the way the AS ground crew and F/A's and me are having a chuckle at the
AA weather ops or lack thereof!

Again, QF, EK, every AS flight and hundreds of other airlines
are coming and going all night and day. This is a AA problem. You AA fanboys just need
to AAcept it!

Falcon Flyer · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:30 pm

Just watched an AA 787 depart the west side as AAL9766 to STL with green wings.

ozark1 · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 28):
That's just the thing. All other airlines are having little or no delays!
This silly overblown ice storm is seemingly only affecting AA!

Why don't you count up the number of daily departures each of those other airlines have at DFW and compare it to AA. Today 3 LGA flights were cxld. 4 to ORD. 4 to MIA. Not going to waste any further time attempting to explain the difference. Just go ahead and spew.

ckfred · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
America, you created this society through:

1. Social Media

2. Litigation

3. Elite Entitlement

You can't sit on plane for a few hours in bad weather because you will start tweeting about how horribly you are being treated by the big, bad airline. Worst experience of your life, I'm sure.

So enjoy your early (and sometimes needless) cancellations. And enjoy your extra time at home or in some far flung hotel.

And don't forget to tweet about A*A cancelling your flight for no reason!

No one likes a delay, but if given the choice of being stranded in an airport terminal or stranded on an airplane, most people will take the former. You can get up, walk around, get something to eat, or buy more reading material if you run out.

I was once on an AA flight from LAS to ORD. First, ATC delayed departure for about 30 minutes, because of weather in Chicago. Then, we pushed back from the gate onto the maintenance pad and sat for about 2 hours. Now, if there had been other flights that needed the gate, it would have made sense. But, having a view of the traffic around Concourse D, only 1 AA flight came and went while sitting on the pad, and a 2nd flight arrived as the captain was starting the engines. With AA having 4 gates at the time, clearly, the plane could have stayed parked.

Besides the weather, an airline takes into consideration where planes and crews will be, once normal operations resume. If cancelling a few hours early means that planes and crew will be in place, once an airport reopens, that beats having crews deadhead and calling in reserve pilots to ferry aircraft overnight.

AWACSooner · Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:50 pm

So how are they going to re-accommodate all those pax they have now inconvenienced by their pre-emptive canx'ing? Three years ago, they basically told me that it would be at least a week before they could accommodate me and refused to transfer my ticket to another airline.

Ytraveller · Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:03 pm

Just wanted to add that LAS had some similar conditions last night... Many inbound flights (including mine, SJC-LAS) were delayed 1-2 hours because of rain/an ATC ground stop. It was pretty wet and cloudy all the way on the Strip as well. This morning we awoke to some snow! (just on the outer edge of the valley, though) Yet last week it was close to 80ºF...

- Ytraveller

32andBelow · Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 41):
So how are they going to re-accommodate all those pax they have now inconvenienced by their pre-emptive canx'ing? Three years ago, they basically told me that it would be at least a week before they could accommodate me and refused to transfer my ticket to another airline.

Well I am assuming everyone who could was rebooked through a different connecting point or two the day of original travel.

usflyguy · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:08 am

Quoting texdravid (Reply 7):
Like usual, American cancels early and often. My overnight AA 1230 SEA-DFW was cancelled this morning 12 hrs before departure!

They should have waited until you were at the gate and then cancelled it... I'm sure you would have appreciated that more than being notified 12 hrs before the flight.

Quoting texdravid (Reply 28):
That's just the thing. All other airlines are having little or no delays!
This silly overblown ice storm is seemingly only affecting AA!

Before anyone gets all defensive AAbout their precious AA, I am an advantage elite who flies a lot more on them
than but a handful of people.

American again cancelled me today and scheduled me in a TUESDAY afternoon flight! Really???

Thank you AS who will take me today, like in 2 hours!
You have not cancelled even one DFW flight!

Quoting texdravid (Reply 37):
Ha ha. Thanks for the advice, why I fly into DFW on AS.
By the way the AS ground crew and F/A's and me are having a chuckle at the
AA weather ops or lack thereof!

Big difference between accommodating 1 aircraft at a time than 75 aircraft at a time. Don't be a douche.

29erUSA187 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:11 am

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 4):
4 A380's

4 A380's? I know they get QF and EK, but what other carrier bring the A380 into DFW?

usflyguy · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:12 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 45):
4 A380's? I know they get QF and EK, but what other carrier bring the A380 into DFW?

IAH gets A380's from Emirates and Luthansa, so if QF and EK had to divert to IAH, all four would have been there at the same time.

idlewildchild · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:36 am

I'm booked for EWR-DFW tomorrow morning on UA. What's the odd's of this one cancelling?

ipodguy7 · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:39 am

Just an update from Dallas: DFW foreceasters are predicting a refreeze tonight, melt tomorrow, then refreeze/1-3 inches of additional snow Wednesday morning (however its supposed to hit 50 late Wednesday, so no real extended problems)

toxtethogrady · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:40 am

Snow forecast for Tuesday night.

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