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AVENSAB727
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UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:13 am

Looks like UA is actually growing at IAH, despite some saying UA is shrinking. This is a great article with a lot of info about how UA has fared at IAH recently:

http://www.anna.aero/2015/02/23/unit...by-31-at-houston-intercontinental/

[Edited 2015-02-24 19:15:58]
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:17 am

No doubt due to their growth in LatAm via IAH. It's nice to see UA do well somewhere. What are there plans going forward, any additional premium heavy routes a la flatbed 752 to BOG or 763 to LIM?
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting ua900 (Reply 1):
What are there plans going forward, any additional premium heavy routes a la flatbed 752 to BOG or 763 to LIM?

LIM and BOG aren't so much premium heavy, as they are cargo heavy. Especially LIM with the 763.

I'd love to see IAH-MVD/CAI/ICN on the 787.
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IAHflyer97
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:25 am

Even with all of the foreign competition and domestic competition, UA still grew. I'm thoroughly impressed!

IMO, UA should stick with what IAH is best located for (taking partner routes into consideration as well). I say they should grow South America and the Carribbean (which they're already doing). If we're lucky maybe we can see ZRH as an exception to what I said.
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gesubsea
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:33 am

Vietnam market (Saigon & Hanoi) is looking cut throat right now...my wife and I are shopping our Xmas vacation out of IAH. UA is in the mix with SQ (although that is a HAUL in the opposite direction through DME and SIN) as well as EVA and ANA with prices hovering around the $800-$900 mark while the rest of the field is significantly higher during that peak travel period.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:57 am

If SGN and HAN are so ridiculously low yield, why are the airlines fighting so hard for that pie ? "make it up via volume" doesn't really apply when fares consistently go below 5cpm
 
Tdan
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:06 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):

LIM and BOG aren't so much premium heavy, as they are cargo heavy. Especially LIM with the 763.

IAH-BOG as a local market is actually quite premium with over 15% of the market flying up front at very high fares for a short haul international route.
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:22 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 5):

If SGN and HAN are so ridiculously low yield, why are the airlines fighting so hard for that pie ?

Because the seats would be empty otherwise. Do you really have to ask that question for a market that went from one nonstop flight to Asia three years ago to five?
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:34 am

interesting analysis, thanks for posting.

I had not seen the numbers in a long while, and am surprised a bit at how much Spirit has grown. I also remember seeing the full HAS numbers for DL and AA a few years ago and do not remember them being so far apart.

AA is sort of double up on DL now, wow. And with Spirit's planned routes later in the year they could start knocking on DL's door as a #3, craziness.

Thanks again.
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MaverickM11
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:02 am

Good timing now that Houston's supercharged growth is safely in the rear view mirror and OA capacity is through the roof 
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LOWS
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Good timing now that Houston's supercharged growth is safely in the rear view mirror and OA capacity is through the roof 

I was about to say. Aren't the energy states (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana(?)) in for a world of hurt with the decline in oil and gas prices?

Does IAH lack the "super-connectivity" of DFW? I it is a bit smaller than AA at DFW.
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:59 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 10):
I was about to say. Aren't the energy states (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana(?)) in for a world of hurt with the decline in oil and gas prices?

I wouldn't say that. .. considering the price of oil isn't falling because of lack of demand.
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dc10lover
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:03 pm

"I was about to say. Aren't the energy states (Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana(?)) in for a world of hurt with the decline in oil and gas prices"?

Look up how many have already lost their jobs and it's a chain reaction. See how IAH does in the future.
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:19 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 10):
Does IAH lack the "super-connectivity" of DFW? I it is a bit smaller than AA at DFW.

AA/DFW is almost 50% larger than UA/IAH. 825 flights vs 560 flights. Not mention AA/DFW sees more mainline...
 
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 11):
I wouldn't say that. .. considering the price of oil isn't falling because of lack of demand.

I agree. I think the prices will rise again come springtime. Brent is already pushing $60/barrel today.

Either way, I don't expect the bottom to fall out of demand at IAH. Yes, thousands of energy jobs have been lost, but Houston is still expected to create more than 40,000 net new jobs this year. It's not quite a Chicken Little situation imo.
 
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:54 pm

Houston's economy is less than %50 energy related now and is still doing fine. If oil were to go south of ~$40 for a long time then more issues could develop but right now most of the cuts are out in the field, not at the backoffices and HQs in Houston.
Houston is still growing, just slower than a couple of years ago, and construction, while slightly curtailed is still booming compared to most other locales.
CNBC just did a big piece on Houston with some good info on the current state of affairs.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 10):
Does IAH lack the "super-connectivity" of DFW? I it is a bit smaller than AA at DFW.
Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 13):
AA/DFW is almost 50% larger than UA/IAH. 825 flights vs 560 flights. Not mention AA/DFW sees more mainline...

In addition, IAH's geography is worse for most connecting passengers due to how far south it is.
 
a380787
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 13):
AA/DFW is almost 50% larger than UA/IAH. 825 flights vs 560 flights. Not mention AA/DFW sees more mainline...

I think IAH is mid-500s in winter but low-600s in summer. UA also has a 400 departure midcon hub in the form of DEN to relief pressure at IAH.

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 16):
In addition, IAH's geography is worse for most connecting passengers due to how far south it is.

Domestically yes. Taking one of the longest lower48 detours of BOS-(Texas)-SEA, via IAH is 250mi longer than DFW, so it's not really *that* bad. For most realistic cases, it's less than 100mi diff compared to DFW.

For going to LatAm, IAH allows for shorter stage lengths than DFW.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
Domestically yes. Taking one of the longest lower48 detours of BOS-(Texas)-SEA, via IAH is 250mi longer than DFW, so it's not really *that* bad. For most realistic cases, it's less than 100mi diff compared to DFW.

From a passenger perspective that makes sense, but from UA's POV that means extra operating cost for the same revenue. I have to think that UA's other hubs make more sense for most flow traffic (DEN/ORD), whereas AA doesn't have as many options, so that increases the importance a large DFW transit hub.
 
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:19 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 18):
From a passenger perspective that makes sense, but from UA's POV that means extra operating cost for the same revenue. I have to think that UA's other hubs make more sense for most flow traffic (DEN/ORD), whereas AA doesn't have as many options, so that increases the importance a large DFW transit hub.

Agreed. Between ORD, IAH, and DEN, there are very few major east-west connections that cannot be efficiently routed.

Although ... most UA fare rules allow equal routing through all 3 of those hubs instead of favoring the shortest path.
 
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:21 pm

Also keep in mind that UA is getting traction with the retirement of ERJs that are being replaced by more 70-seaters.

That's a boon to existing RJ markets that had capacity artificially staunched that's being freed up. So IAH is seeing larger gauge on existing markets AND (hopefully) added frequency to go with it in the hub banking.
 
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 12):
Look up how many have already lost their jobs and it's a chain reaction. See how IAH does in the future.

Also, those jobs lost are smoke and mirrors, those job cuts were coming post consolidations, Halliburton etc used the fall in prices.
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757SanCam
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:25 pm

As a UA ff flying every week from SAN in the fall, I use IAH as much as possible. Connection times are best there for going east, and less hassle than using ORD. I'd like to use DEN more, but the schedule doesn't work out, lots of 2 plus hour connections. My usual connect time at IAH is 1 to 1 1/2 hours for all points east of Houston. I also like the airport layout, lots of good eats as well.
 
gesubsea
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:35 pm

Slightly off topic, just booked ANA for Xmas to Vietnam (deal was too good to pass up at $882 r/t). The ticket itinerary states that departure and arrival are using T-E, but my understanding is that ALL Int'l at IAH is using T-D. Will ANA be gate sharing with UA or is this just a typo on the part of ANA?

Also, the NRT - Saigon segments are supposedly using Air Japan metal. Is Air Japan in fact ANA metal or a subsidiary of ANA with its own a/c?
 
United1
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting gesubsea (Reply 23):
lightly off topic, just booked ANA for Xmas to Vietnam (deal was too good to pass up at $882 r/t). The ticket itinerary states that departure and arrival are using T-E, but my understanding is that ALL Int'l at IAH is using T-D. Will ANA be gate sharing with UA or is this just a typo on the part of ANA?

I was under the impression that NH would be using T-D...are you sure you are on the nonstop NH flight or the UA flight that is codeshared by NH.

Air Japan is a subsidiary of ANA but I don't believe that they have any of their own aircraft....fairly certain you will be on an NH aircraft operated by Air Japan.

Edit: I did some checking...looks like NH does show their flight departing from E...very possible that UA and NH are co-locating flights just as they do at quite a few other airports.

[Edited 2015-02-25 10:06:38]
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gesubsea
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:45 pm

Good portion of the pdf is in Japanese, however it does say operating carrier is NH and the flight numbers are 173 (outbound) and 174 (return). Vice versa, operator to Saigon is Air Japan under flight numbers NH 831 andNH 832.

[Edited 2015-02-25 10:47:22]

[Edited 2015-02-25 10:48:05]

[Edited 2015-02-25 10:48:49]
 
a380787
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:49 pm

Air Japan is just a technicality. For all practical purposes, the passenger won't feel any different than flying "ANA mainline".
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:00 pm

Well, ALL international arrivals are terminal E. The gates are at D but the FIS is at E. Now, NH could definitely be using E for departures... but how is the apron marked? Terminal E gates weren't really earmarked for anything larger than a 772...
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
Edit: I did some checking...looks like NH does show their flight departing from E...very possible that UA and NH are co-locating flights just as they do at quite a few other airports.

Perhaps UA will do the ground handling for NH in IAH, they used to do it for LH before the merger.
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CONTACREW
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:50 am

Not all of the Terminal E widebody capable gates are widebody friendly. E4, E7 & E18 are the only gates that can accommodate widebody aircraft without blocking a neighboring gate. E2 blocks E3, E5 blocks E6 & E20 blocks E19. A 777 was tried at E15 once but never again apparently the space is too tight. E10 also has a dual jetbridge, but AFAIK has never been used as a widebody gate, probably because it would block E9 & E11 on either side
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:11 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 29):
E5 blocks E6

Not a problem any more. They removed the E6 jet bridge.
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AVENSAB727
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:13 am

So ANA will depart out of Terminal E? In what terminal will they use for the arrival?
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TWA772LR
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 31):

So ANA will depart out of Terminal E? In what terminal will they use for the arrival?

If they depart from E, my guess is they will arrive in E.

Fun fact, no matter where any commercial Intl arrival parks in IAH, all pax end up in terminal E after CBP.
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FlyingSicilian
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:12 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 32):
Fun fact, no matter where any commercial Intl arrival parks in IAH, all pax end up in terminal E after CBP.

Save for Air Canada and those from other pre-clear locations  
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COflyerBOS
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:16 am

United has grown 2.7% compared to what? Last year? 2013? Pre-merger days?

This article is nothing more than spin for the original poster.

United is down compared to the height of Continental's service. The number of cities cut dwarfs those added.
 
iahcsr
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:10 am

When Term E was first opened E8/9 were designed for the option of using them as a single WB gate if needed (E9 to L1 door. E8 to L2). Ditto E21/22. To my knowledge it has never been tried though.
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UALFAson
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:18 am

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 34):
United has grown 2.7% compared to what? Last year? 2013? Pre-merger days?

This article is nothing more than spin for the original poster.

United is down compared to the height of Continental's service. The number of cities cut dwarfs those added.

If you would bother to actually click on the article and read even just the headline before posting your snark and negativity, you would see that the article very clearly notes it's a 2.7% growth rate from last year.

Further, the number of flights and destinations served has certainly reduced since the merger. For sCO, IAH was their westernmost and southernmost hub, so almost everything had to connect through there. Post merger, UA can distribute connections through other, more direct/logical hubs like DEN and ORD, so the need to route everyone through IAH is greatly diminshed.
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MaverickM11
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:22 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 19):
Although ... most UA fare rules allow equal routing through all 3 of those hubs instead of favoring the shortest path.

I think it's pretty rare that airlines specify routings. The pricing is generally independent of the routing, and revenue management will naturally drive the traffic over the cheapest hub/routing

Quoting jetero (Reply 7):
Because the seats would be empty otherwise. Do you really have to ask that question for a market that went from one nonstop flight to Asia three years ago to five?

   between the intense competition for volume and the situation in Russia, SQ is back down in the 60s, as is KE who just started
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:13 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 36):
the need to route everyone through IAH is greatly diminshed.

And yet, it's still one of two hubs where major delays can disrupt the entire network. The entire domestic fleet rotates through either IAH or ORD (or both) each day. Anyone who thinks that IAH is or has lessened in importance in the network is living in a dream world.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 34):
United has grown 2.7% compared to what? Last year? 2013? Pre-merger days?
Quoting UALFAson (Reply 36):
If you would bother to actually click on the article and read even just the headline before posting your snark and negativity, you would see that the article very clearly notes it's a 2.7% growth rate from last year.

And more specifically grew passenger enplanements by 2.7%.
 
hohd
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:13 pm

Glad that UA is slowly growing. My biggest hope is that someone from IAH starts IAH-HKG, perhaps UA this time, instead of a foreign airline always starting a new route. Although CX will be better as they have good connection possibilities to SE Asia, China, up to India.

I know that Air China has a flight, CX can steal some passengers from Air China, not everyone is blindly loyal to *A anyway, otherwise you would not have all these non Star alliance airlines from IAH.
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting hohd (Reply 40):
My biggest hope is that someone from IAH starts IAH-HKG, perhaps UA this time, instead of a foreign airline always starting a new route. Although CX will be better as they have good connection possibilities to SE Asia, China, up to India.

A long shot. O&D is low, plus connectivity to Asia is pretty strong right now via TPE, NRT, PEK, SIN, and SEL.
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a380787
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RE: UA Grows At IAH By 2.7%

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 41):
A long shot. O&D is low, plus connectivity to Asia is pretty strong right now via TPE, NRT, PEK, SIN, and SEL.

Just add UA IAH-PVG and NZ IAH-AKL and it would have very comprehensive TPAC coverage.

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