DL Brings 717's To SEA

wedgetail737 · Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:41 pm

I saw this on social media.

http://m.bizjournals.com/seattle/new...st-jet-back-to-sea-tac.html?r=full

dc10lover · Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:04 pm

Perfect aircraft for West Coast operations.

TWA902fly · Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:08 pm

I like how it says they will replace RJ service currently operated by DL partners WestJet and Compass. Someone should tell WestJet

. The media strikes again.

'902

nkops · Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:11 pm

"They will operate on existing routes, replacing either Boeing 737s or other regional jets operated by Delta partners WestJet and Compass, as demand dictates, Black said"

WestJet?

TWA.. you beat me to it

[Edited 2015-02-25 07:12:48]

Italianflyer · Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:05 pm

"Republic Airlines was the last air carrier to bring 717s to Sea-Tac, but that service stopped in 2009, according to airport spokesman Perry Cooper."

Huh??

Who was the last 717 operator in SEA? Sure wasn't Herman.

29erUSA187 · Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 2):

Hmm, so if SAN sees ERJ's to SAN, will we start to see some 717's?

SunsetLimited · Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
Huh??
Who was the last 717 operator in SEA? Sure wasn't Herman.

They are probably talking about Midwest, which was owned by Republic.

Sightseer · Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 5):

Possibly. There was an A320 on the route at one point last year.

Also of note, this coming winter TUS will be daily instead of Saturday-only, and PSP will be twice daily versus daily.
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/bo...e-flights-from-Seattle-6096584.php

eugdjinn · Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:40 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 2):
RJ service currently operated by DL partners WestJet and Compass. Someone should tell WestJet

Oh dear! This wasn't supposed to be leaked yet - SkyWest Inc purchases WestJet! My, my. Now the full evil plan is revealed - SkyWestExpressJet INC conquers Canada! WestJet to be renamed SkyJet until Jet_____ joins the family and the name can be made even less sensible!

Truly Journalism and the art of editing are dead.

MSPNWA · Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:46 pm

This move isn't a big surprise to me. The 717 operations will continue to grow more on the West Coast instead of the Upper Midwest.

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 1):
Perfect aircraft for West Coast operations.

I think it's a logical upgrade from RJs from a capacity standpoint, but otherwise the 717 is less than ideal for SEA. It's bread and butter are shorter routes.

northwestEWR · Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 9):
This move isn't a big surprise to me. The 717 operations will continue to grow more on the West Coast instead of the Upper Midwest.

I think it's a logical upgrade from RJs from a capacity standpoint, but otherwise the 717 is less than ideal for SEA. It's bread and butter are shorter routes.

Oh look, critical of DL. Surprise surprise.

The 717 is an outstanding aircraft for short missions and for longer trips. That's part of it's attraction. The 737NGs and A32X are fine for long routes but carry a lot of extra weight for short trips. The 717 can do both.

DL has ~30 more coming this year. The midwest will see it's fair share.

tomcbaker · Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 10):

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 9):
This move isn't a big surprise to me. The 717 operations will continue to grow more on the West Coast instead of the Upper Midwest.

I think it's a logical upgrade from RJs from a capacity standpoint, but otherwise the 717 is less than ideal for SEA. It's bread and butter are shorter routes.

Oh look, critical of DL. Surprise surprise.

The 717 is an outstanding aircraft for short missions and for longer trips. That's part of it's attraction. The 737NGs and A32X are fine for long routes but carry a lot of extra weight for short trips. The 717 can do both.

DL has ~30 more coming this year. The midwest will see it's fair share.

Personally, I don't really care what the 717 is ideal for - I am just looking forward to seeing it at SEA, which I am at weekly. A little change in the 'usual suspects' will be great, and I hope to fly on it at some point down to LAX. I'm crossing my fingers DL will expand 717 flying all over the west coast. It's a great aircraft and I enjoyed being a passenger on it on HA, Midwest Express and Air Tran. And though I do enjoy the E170/190 series, I find the 717 to be more comfortable still. I also prefer it to the 737 because it feels less cramped and boards/disembarks more quickly. It's a great size from a passenger standpoint. I loved flying it on Midwest Express (pre-Republic) when they used to bake chocolate chip cookies onboard and serve them to you hot with milk

The entire plane would fill with the smell of baking chocolate chip cookies about 20 minutes after departure.

wedgetail737 · Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 11):
I loved flying it on Midwest Express (pre-Republic) when they used to bake chocolate chip cookies onboard and serve them to you hot with milk The entire plane would fill with the smell of baking chocolate chip cookies about 20 minutes after departure.

Plus it was only 2X2 seating. I flew it roundtrip on Midwest Express between SEA and MCI.

tomcbaker · Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
Plus it was only 2X2 seating. I flew it roundtrip on Midwest Express between SEA and MCI.

Yes! And it was all leather, and so comfortable. I flew them several times from BOS-MCI back in 2007-2008, pre-Republic. It was a great product/experience each time. Midwest Connect (regional affiliate), however, left something to be desired. I remember their Dornier 328 jets giving the distinct impression they were not well maintained, and connecting on those from MCI to OMA was not so great. The bathroom was broken/out of service the last two times I flew on those 328's.

MSPNWA · Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 10):
Oh look, critical of DL. Surprise surprise.

The 717 is an outstanding aircraft for short missions and for longer trips. That's part of it's attraction. The 737NGs and A32X are fine for long routes but carry a lot of extra weight for short trips. The 717 can do both.

DL has ~30 more coming this year. The midwest will see it's fair share.

More like acknowledging the facts of the matter and not drinking the Kool-Aid.

The greatest advantage of the 717 (and the entire DC/MD series) is its light weight, making it better for short hops. That efficiency advantage goes away the longer you fly it. The powerful engines and small wing hurt the CASM. SEA is relatively isolated geographically, meaning only a handful of mainline routes are in the sweet spot of the 717 from a cost perspective. If you want to talk about capacity matching, there's plenty of routes in the DL system that 110 seats fit best. DL won't have enough 717s to cover all of them, so pushing them out west is a strange move - unless it's a temporary solution until demand hopefully increases.

FSDan · Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:27 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 5):
Hmm, so if SAN sees ERJ's to SAN, will we start to see some 717's?

The routes mentioned in the press release are SEA-LAX, SEA-LAS, and SEA-PHX. I suppose they could be sent to SAN, SFO, etc. eventually, but that depends on how many DL plans on sending to SEA.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 9):
This move isn't a big surprise to me. The 717 operations will continue to grow more on the West Coast instead of the Upper Midwest.

The start date for the SEA 717 flying is Sept. 1. There are quite a few 717s joining the fleet between now and then, and I bet they don't ALL get sent to LAX.

deltal1011man · Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:10 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 14):

More like acknowledging the facts of the matter and not drinking the Kool-Aid.

speaking of Kool-aid.

Exactly what airline have you been in charge of that made 4.5 Billion this year? I only ask because everything Delta does to you is the stupidest most mismanaged thing an airline can do.....but they are still(lucky I guess) making money hand over fist.

Anyways, Good to see the 717 pumping some mainline into SEA.

a380787 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:25 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):

And how does DL's profits mean jack to consumers other than proving they're ripping customers the most ? For employees it's great but for anyone dealing with skymiles it's absolute junk .... like spirit and Ryanair

Of course this forum is filled with people who only care about their profit sharing and won't care one bit about customer experience. No skypesos for me

PSU.DTW.SCE · Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:35 am

These are some of the same markets that start to get 717 service from LAX in June this year.

These are well within the route profile for the 717.

Also SEA does not see any scheduled A319/A320 service on any route.

mark2fly1034 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:52 am

I wonder if we will see more Alaska flights open up with a SEA base.

DeltaB717 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:11 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 9):
It's bread and butter are shorter routes.

Australia has 13 B717s which operate on a network with quite a lot of routes >2hrs, including some close to or slightly more than 3hrs. (Before anyone says it, the other 5 are virtually exclusive on much shorter routes). I think they're far more versatile than you make them out to be.

deltal1011man · Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):

And how does DL's profits mean jack to consumers other than proving they're ripping customers the most ? For employees it's great but for anyone dealing with skymiles it's absolute junk .... like spirit and Ryanair

Of course this forum is filled with people who only care about their profit sharing and won't care one bit about customer experience. No skypesos for me

So.....

Anyone care to explain to me just what this person is talking about? MSPNWA is talking about the 717 having CASM issues.

and then out of no where Delta's product is getting compared to NK and employees are evil because of profit sharing.

how did we get here? Anyone?

a380787 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):

Because you insisted to bring up the profits to justify DL's action, as if they have ANY thing to do with 717 casm.

TW870 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:46 am

I'll break up the fight with some basic information. Fall peak day schedules look like:

SEA-PHX: 2xCR7 and 2x717 (717 RONs at PHX)
SEA-LAS: 3xCR7 and 2x717 (717 RONs at LAS)
SEA-LAX: 1xE75, 2x717, 5x738

surfdog75 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:50 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):
So.....

Anyone care to explain to me just what this person is talking about? MSPNWA is talking about the 717 having CASM issues.

and then out of no where Delta's product is getting compared to NK and employees are evil because of profit sharing.

how did we get here? Anyone?

I wouldn't bother. Think someone has an ax to grind........on every thread that deals with DL.

northwestEWR · Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):

And how does DL's profits mean jack to consumers other than proving they're ripping customers the most ? For employees it's great but for anyone dealing with skymiles it's absolute junk .... like spirit and Ryanair

Of course this forum is filled with people who only care about their profit sharing and won't care one bit about customer experience. No skypesos for me

Wow. I fly more than most people and yes, the Skymiles changes have hurt my Medallion status and that sucks but having also flown on the other two carriers that could serve my needs, AA and UA, DL continues to have both of them beat in the service arena. Seems the forum is also filled with people who simply like bashing DL and jump at any opportunity to do so. Why not be helpful and provide constructive criticism? I am very critical of UA, as a former employee and customer but simply saying they suck is pointless.

questions · Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:30 am

How is deployment of the 717 on west coast routes indicative of DL's growth? Any data?

TheRedBaron · Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 11):
I loved flying it on Midwest Express (pre-Republic) when they used to bake chocolate chip cookies onboard and serve them to you hot with milk The entire plane would fill with the smell of baking chocolate chip cookies about 20 minutes after departure.

Oh!!! that smell...it was great !! and the cookies WOW, too bad everyone preferred 80 less dollars on their ticket price to avoid a very nice service, a large and confortable seat and those cookies....
I bet in 10 years we will be writing about the peanuts that AA served...when nothing will be served and service will be considered of announcing things and opening the doors....

Good move for Delta Y rather fly on a 717 than on RJ from SEA to SFO or LAX. (hence I fly AS).

TRB

Brewfangrb · Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:16 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
And how does DL's profits mean jack to consumers other than proving they're ripping customers the most ?

So if understand this, any dollar of profit means a passenger's been ripped off? You realize that means you're getting ripped off on every single thing you buy, every single day, right?

a380787 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 28):

No ripoff is worse than skypesos. These days the only tickets I ever purchase on delta are hidden city ticketing. That's how much respect I have for them.

Sightseer · Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:34 am

I wouldn't worry about the 717 fleet being stretched. DL will have more 717s than 737s by the end of the year, and the 737s fly practically everywhere within their range except Hawaii. There will be enough 717 routes to go around.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
These days the only tickets I ever purchase on delta are hidden city ticketing. That's how much respect I have for them.

Don't worry, it shows.

dlramp4life · Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
No ripoff is worse than skypesos. These days the only tickets I ever purchase on delta are hidden city ticketing. That's how much respect I have for them.

This is a discussion forum not an airline bashing social media page (thats what facebook is for). If you have nothing to add to the discussion besides how an airline making profits is evil you are in the wrong place.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):
So.....

Anyone care to explain to me just what this person is talking about? MSPNWA is talking about the 717 having CASM issues.

and then out of no where Delta's product is getting compared to NK and employees are evil because of profit sharing.

how did we get here? Anyone?

^^This

The 717 might be dicey I think on some routes out of SEA. I know SEA-PHX is still an infant route but the loads are not very good on the CR7s and CR9s. Hopefully by September the route has more pax so that the route does not become a waste when the 717 comes online.

n7371f · Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 31):
The 717 might be dicey I think on some routes out of SEA. I know SEA-PHX is still an infant route but the loads are not very good on the CR7s and CR9s. Hopefully by September the route has more pax so that the route does not become a waste when the 717 comes online.

A little friendly insight...

I've thought the same about LAS-SEA for well over a year now. However you cannot underestimate the Asian connections. At some point I was shared a number that basically said a business-class ticket, times two, could make these Connection-operated SEA flights profitable - assuming decent loads.

I know LAS-SEA is profitable for Delta even though the three or four dozen times I've flown the route it's rarely sold out.

hz747300 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:43 am

Looking at flights for next Xmas, the cheapest B-Class fare is HK$77k (for 2pp) on DL, and I saw that one of the flights and return are listed as 717s. That would be a new type for me, but I have no mileage stake in Skyteam. The other flights were still a CR7, yuck.

ASFlyer · Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 32):
I know LAS-SEA is profitable for Delta even though the three or four dozen times I've flown the route it's rarely sold out.

SEA-LAS is a COMPLETELY different market than SEA-PHX. People come from Asia just to go to LAS in droves, but not so much to PHX. I could see where a plane going to LAS with empty seats may still make money with international connections but I don't think PHX enjoys the luxury of a lot of high yielding international customers.

PlanesNTrains · Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 15):
SEA-PHX.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 31):
I know SEA-PHX is still an infant route but the loads are not very good on the CR7s and CR9s.

I was just pricing out a spring itinerary to PHX from SEA and DL was the cheapest. We won't be flying them if we go but hopefully they'll help keep prices a bit lower.

-Dave

Yukon880 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:52 am

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 30):
I wouldn't worry about the 717 fleet being stretched. DL will have more 717s than 737s by the end of the year,

While I am not privy to the exact number of currently active 737s in the Widget fleet, I feel fairly confident that there are presently more in service than the 88 anticipated 717s.
Unless, by chance, you have information to the contrary?

Yukon

goboeing · Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
No ripoff is worse than skypesos. These days the only tickets I ever purchase on delta are hidden city ticketing. That's how much respect I have for them.

Don't kid yourself. Buying tickets on a bus, train, ship, or plane has nothing to do with "respect" and everything to do with what your travel needs and budget are.

Respect has nothing to do with it and you know it.

dbo861 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
And how does DL's profits mean jack to consumers other than proving they're ripping customers the most ? For employees it's great but for anyone dealing with skymiles it's absolute junk .... like spirit and Ryanair

Of course this forum is filled with people who only care about their profit sharing and won't care one bit about customer experience. No skypesos for me

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
No ripoff is worse than skypesos. These days the only tickets I ever purchase on delta are hidden city ticketing. That's how much respect I have for them.

If you hate Delta so much, then simply fly a different airline. Problem solved. No need to pollute these forums with your anti-Delta posts, as it's accomplishing nothing.

The same thing happens with any Virgin America thread, people always go straight to bashing the company for no reason at all. It adds nothing to the discussion.

BravoOne · Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 32):
I've thought the same about LAS-SEA for well over a year now. However you cannot underestimate the Asian connections. At some point I was shared a number that basically said a business-class ticket, times two, could make these Connection-operated SEA flights profitable - assuming decent loads.

I know LAS-SEA is profitable for Delta even though the three or four dozen times I've flown the route it's rarely sold out.

I do this round trip at least once a week and they are frequently sold out. Lately they are using the RJ700 and 900 exclusively. Hoping for something bigger this summer. Very large contingent of Asian pax on all flights both ways.

Sightseer · Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting Yukon880 (Reply 36):

Doh!

Meant to say 738s

Stupid autocorrect. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

alfa164 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:54 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):
and then out of no where Delta's product is getting compared to NK and employees are evil because of profit sharing. how did we get here? Anyone?

Because some people - a few, at least - want to turn any post on A.net into a rant about their un-favorite airline. They just can't stop themselves...

wedgetail737 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:59 pm

I would love to see a 717 base in SEA. How likely? Who knows. I think the 717 would be a perfect aircraft for some
markets out of here. I think SAN and SJC just to list a couple.

DeltaMD95 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:08 pm

Interesting move by DL. Does this mean that a SLC base is less likely or is there still a chance of increased 717-ops in SLC in the future?

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 14):

More like acknowledging the facts of the matter and not drinking the Kool-Aid.

The greatest advantage of the 717 (and the entire DC/MD series) is its light weight, making it better for short hops. That efficiency advantage goes away the longer you fly it. The powerful engines and small wing hurt the CASM. SEA is relatively isolated geographically, meaning only a handful of mainline routes are in the sweet spot of the 717 from a cost perspective. If you want to talk about capacity matching, there's plenty of routes in the DL system that 110 seats fit best. DL won't have enough 717s to cover all of them, so pushing them out west is a strange move - unless it's a temporary solution until demand hopefully increases.

While I also would've thought more 717s would be in DTW and MSP by now, vs the west coast receiving any, you do have to assume that DL's leadership knows what they are doing. True, the MD95 platform is advantageous on short-haul, but I don't think it's at the detriment on medium-haul as you make it out to be. DL has all the raw data numbers, with plenty of time operating the type by now, for which I'm sure they've done a lot of analytics into what stage length their 717s are best suited for.

Other than a.net stigma and general aircraft spec, what data can you provide that suggests the 717 is not ideal for 2-3 hr missions? Surely not to the level that DL has at their fingertips.

rotating14 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:11 pm

Could they enter the Sea-Anc market that AS currently dominates? It's only 300 more nm than SEA-PHX.

wedgetail737 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 44):
Could they enter the Sea-Anc market that AS currently dominates? It's only 300 more nm than SEA-PHX.

I think there's more demand for the SEA-ANC route than the 717 can handle. It's a perfect market for the 737-800, -900 and
the 757 during the summer peak season.

hoons90 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 29):
No ripoff is worse than skypesos. These days the only tickets I ever purchase on delta are hidden city ticketing. That's how much respect I have for them.

Isn't UA basically copying every move that DL makes with its frequent flyer program? Do you dislike them as well?

DDR · Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:53 pm

I think the 717 is a great aircraft for DL in SEA. It isn't too big and will allow them to compete effectively with AS. On the domestic side, I think AS will always be the king in SEA so using a smaller aircraft is really smart on DL's part. Too bad DL can't get their hands on about 75 more. They could replace a lot of RJ flying.

DeltaMD95 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 47):
Too bad DL can't get their hands on about 75 more. They could replace a lot of RJ flying.

I agree. Rumor is they may be acquiring 11 more right now. I think DL will come to regret not acting on the ex-Midwest/Mexicana aircraft when they were available. Especially if Volotea remains a 717 operator for many years to come.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 45):
I think there's more demand for the SEA-ANC route than the 717 can handle. It's a perfect market for the 737-800, -900

That would seem to make sense.

surfdog75 · Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:23 pm

Looks like it's LAX for the 717s.

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