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ZKOJH
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New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:19 am

Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome aboard - Lets carry on with another round of talks from down under -

*Cleared for takeoff!*

Thread 153 can be found here - New Zealand Aviation Thread 153 (by American 767 Feb 2 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Regards

ZKOJH
Air New Zealand ~ dreams of flying
 
Motorhussy
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:42 am

I know there's another thread on the new Australian (CASA) EDTO rules with regard to the Southern Ocean but with regard to New Zealand and NZ: will this have much/any impact/bearing on NZ's EZE destination later this year; will AKL lose some LA frequencies to SYD non-stops (the projected more than daily services becoming SYD only), and; does this open up the possibility for a resumption of MEL-JNB services, potentially starting in AKL using an NZ 789 as a JV with SA and VA?
come visit the south pacific
 
Nouflyer
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:54 am

I posted this just before the last thread closed......

I like the timing of flights to the USA.

Departures from AKL are late enough for:

1) overnight sleep onboard
2) hotel rooms to be ready for arrival in LAX/SFO/YVR
3) smooth Australian connections
4) ground time to be kept to around 6-7 hours in North America
5) return connections from across North America to work

What I despise about daytime departures from Australia is:

1) the flight is too early to sleep
2) I am exhausted upon arrival and a domestic US quality connection is just too much to bear.
3) if I stay overnight in LA, I have to wait 6-8 hours before I can check into my room, or else pay an extra night for a room that I won't get into until 10 am.

It would be great if I could afford the Peninsula in Beverly Hills with its 24 hour checkin. But I can't, and 9am arrivals don't go well with 4pm hotel check-in.
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:32 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 2):

I disagree on most points - each to their own I guess. But I will make one point - anyone that thinks they can sleep on a NZ 77W in Y comes from not the same human race as I do. I'd far prefer a daytime flight (a la QF) with a wee doze towards the end.
 
Nouflyer
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 3):
I disagree on most points - each to their own I guess. But I will make one point - anyone that thinks they can sleep on a NZ 77W in Y comes from not the same human race as I do. I'd far prefer a daytime flight (a la QF) with a wee doze towards the end.

Let's be explicit about what you are proposing to let yourself in for!

Here is a recent Virgin Australia/Virgin America itinerary of mine:

Depart Brisbane 1115 (1415 NZ time)
Arrive Los Angeles 0630 (which is 0030 Brisbane time)

Depart Los Angles 1045 (which is 0445 Brisbane time)
Arrive Chicago 1640 (which is 0840 Brisbane time).

It's absolutely punishing. It's terrible.

The worst part is the hours in transit before the domestic connection: you feel like a zombie.

But even worse than that is what you experience if you don't connect onwards. Morning is just breaking, you are absolutely exhausted and your bed in your hotel room is still at least 9 hours away. Driving a car is far too risky to contemplate.

I try to build my itineraries around how I can optimise sleep and minimise exhaustion. And afternoon departures from Auckland to North America are a bit of a problem unless you can drop off as soon as you take off and sleep for the entire flight.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:56 am

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/regio...um=email&utm_campaign=20150226_APU

Not sure if any of you are aware of this: free valet parking at AKL for 24 hrs and free use of the regional lounge if you're flying regionally (Just not to WLG or CHC.. Beats me why ZQN isn't on that list too). Perfect for if anyone's doing daytrips... Valid to the end of May, with some T&Cs/blocked out periods. Heck, time to plan a farewell B1900D flight and why not get a free carpark while you're at it?  

[Edited 2015-02-25 23:58:10]
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Unclekoru
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:35 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 1):
I know there's another thread on the new Australian (CASA) EDTO rules with regard to the Southern Ocean but with regard to New Zealand and NZ: will this have much/any impact/bearing on NZ's EZE destination later this year; will AKL lose some LA frequencies to SYD non-stops (the projected more than daily services becoming SYD only), and; does this open up the possibility for a resumption of MEL-JNB services, potentially starting in AKL using an NZ 789 as a JV with SA and VA?

In the normal course of events CASA has no juristriction over any actual or proposed NZ EDTO operations.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:55 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 3):
But I will make one point - anyone that thinks they can sleep on a NZ 77W in Y comes from not the same human race as I do.

It's no more difficult than sleeping on any other aircraft, I'm lucky I can pretty much sleep anywhere anytime.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:28 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 3):
anyone that thinks they can sleep on a NZ 77W in Y comes from not the same human race as I do.

Well I somehow slept in a 763 Y seat.. It's 0.4 inches wider than the 77W Y seat and much harder.. So I dare say I could sleep "well" in the 77W seat. Have you tried knocking yourself out for the prescribed flight time?  
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 6):

Indeed but I think you may be missing my point.

Changes to CASA EDTO rulings with regard twin engined aircraft flying ETOPS routes over the Southern Ocean potentially impacts traffic to New Zealand. Twin engined operations from South America may soon not HAVE to stop in AKL before making landfall in Oz, this may negatively impact both AKL (in terms of reduced traffic), and NZ (in terms of blunting its competitive edge with the new EZE route).

And the relaxation of EDTO restrictions may make a compelling case for a combined NZ/VA/SA AKL-MEL-JNB route using an NZ 789, and resurrecting VA's attempt which failed due to an uneconomical diversion with their, too large for the route, 77W.
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 1):
does this open up the possibility for a resumption of MEL-JNB services, potentially starting in AKL using an NZ 789 as a JV with SA and VA?

Leaving aside questions of Pacific Rim, I thought that they aren't pursuing one-stops these days, always with the exception AKL-LAX-LHR?

mariner
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Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 4):
Let's be explicit about what you are proposing to let yourself in for!

Here is a recent Virgin Australia/Virgin America itinerary of mine:

Depart Brisbane 1115 (1415 NZ time)
Arrive Los Angeles 0630 (which is 0030 Brisbane time)

Depart Los Angles 1045 (which is 0445 Brisbane time)
Arrive Chicago 1640 (which is 0840 Brisbane time).

I take all your points and basically agree. BUT it's very similar to a recent trip I did AKL-JFK, which was tiring en route but somehow managed to have zero jet lag in either direction. With respect to the evening NZ departures, I hate the pressure to get off to sleep within a couple of hours of being on the plane.

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 4):
I try to build my itineraries around how I can optimise sleep and minimise exhaustion.

As do I. And for me the trip starts when I get out of bed in the morning and doesn't finish until I'm in a bed at my destination. That's why I find evening USA departures particularly brutal. You've already been going all day, with not much prospect of sleep ahead.

All of these issues I think come secondary to mindset anyway.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Leaving aside questions of Pacific Rim, I thought that they aren't pursuing one-stops these days, always with the exception AKL-LAX-LHR?

Yes good points, but I guess this opportunity has not presented itself before, and the risks may be mitigated by a JV with their two partner airlines, plus the mooted one-stop MEL is a city within NZ's sphere of influence.
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:50 pm

So it seems there is a new airline trying to get off the ground, but its plans for Whenuapai-Wellington service on Saab 340's have been knocked back:

This article explains it all better than my summation:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11408688

Government nixes airline's Whenuapai-Wellington plan

Fledgling carrier’s founder alleges bias in rejection of Whenuapai-Wellington proposal

Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee has clipped the wings of a fledgling regional airline before it can get off the ground, rejecting plans to operate domestic flights from Whenuapai airbase, northwest of Auckland, to Wellington.

Kiwi Regional Airlines (KRA) chief executive Ewan Wilson has responded by accusing the Government of bias, questioning its role in who uses the military airbase given the government's major shareholding in competitor Air New Zealand.

Mr Wilson, the founder of the mid-1990s failed Kiwi Travel International Airlines, said he would not give up on the idea and would forge ahead with the airline and with trying to change the Cabinet stance."


Male of it what you will.  

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Motorhussy
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Male of it what you will.

And I think the male in question is...

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Ewan Wilson

Given Mr Wilson's history with misrepresentation of assets and conviction on four counts of fraud during his tenure at Kiwi, the Govt would rightly be wary of any interactions.
come visit the south pacific
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:36 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 14):
tenure at Kiwi, the Govt would rightly be wary of any interactions.

Indeed. And when Kiwi went tits up, it did so in spectacular fashion. Employees, contractors and passengers got severely burned.

While I support the idea of a main trunk service out of Whenuapai, I think neither propeller aircraft nor Mr. Wilson are ideal for the job.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 14):
Given Mr Wilson's history with misrepresentation of assets and conviction on four counts of fraud during his tenure at Kiwi, the Govt would rightly be wary of any interactions.

How can a person convicted of fraud be an officer of a corporation?
 
Motorhussy
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 16):
How can a person convicted of fraud be an officer of a corporation?

Very good point...
come visit the south pacific
 
qfatwa
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:38 pm

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 2):
What I despise about daytime departures from Australia is:

1) the flight is too early to sleep
2) I am exhausted upon arrival and a domestic US quality connection is just too much to bear.
3) if I stay overnight in LA, I have to wait 6-8 hours before I can check into my room, or else pay an extra night for a room that I won't get into until 10 am.

QF17 operates from Sydney at 1730, arriving at LAX at 12.05pm [noon].

Add time through customs and transport to hotel, not as bad as the earlier arrivals. Many hotels will offer earlier check-in than the usually prescribed 3pm.

QF92 from Noumea to Sydney arrives at 1550 on Sat/Sun/Mon. Seems like a good match up!

[Edited 2015-02-26 15:40:13]
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting qfatwa (Reply 18):
QF92 from Noumea to Sydney arrives at 1550 on Sat/Sun/Mon. Seems like a good match up!

Don't think so. His home town is OOL.

PA515
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:53 am

what does the NZ decision to keep two 763's in the fleet mean ? That service to HNL and RAR-LAX will remain 763's for the forseable future? Or is it more to do with TT and CHC-PER ?

[Edited 2015-02-27 01:55:39]
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 1):
; will AKL lose some LA frequencies to SYD non-stops (the projected more than daily services becoming SYD only),

From what I can glean from Stats NZ the inbound passenger count from SCL is only ~21000 per year. Can't find anything on outbound > Oh that the NZ-ers. had a report as straight forward and detailed as BITRE
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:27 am

What are the plans for NZ's next 3 787's this year? I can see services to PPT, YVR, (An increase in 787 ops to PVG) and maybe HNL being phased in, which would allow them to open up the "3rd" US route by freeing up 772's - Could we see any new routes open with the 787?
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:27 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 22):
What are the plans for NZ's next 3 787's this year?

PA515 tells us that it will take one to replace the 77E and 763 on PVG and NRT. I believe one will go on the yet to be announced new mainland USA destination and another on EZE as soon as EDTO 330-min. is obtained likely in the first half of 2016. I think YVR is also a strong probability but not necessarily in that sequence. The wild card is the approval of the RR/777-200ER for operations at > 180-min. I am trying to find out whether this has happened. It needs to happen at the FAA level before the CAA can approve it. I would anticipate two of the three will have a higher proportion of premium seats for something like 274 seats.
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:15 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 22):
What are the plans for NZ's next 3 787's this year? I can see services to PPT, YVR, (An increase in 787 ops to PVG) and maybe HNL being phased in, which would allow them to open up the "3rd" US route by freeing up 772's - Could we see any new routes open with the 787?

From late Aug 2015 789's will be daily PER(1), NRT(1) and PVG(2). That means no engineering downtime of more than about 14 hours at a time for those four aircraft. It's usually two days for the 77E's/77W's/763's. So, the other two 789's will need to have about a two day gap in their schedule.

The postponed retirement of two 763's that were to be replaced by two 789's suggests those two 789's will be used on longhaul, probably AKL- LAX/SFO/YVR six flights a week. Only one 763 will be retired this year instead of three, and two 763's now remain until FY18 when the 9th, 10th and 11th 789's are delivered.

Last year Luxon said the new USA destination would be a 777, but didn't say which type. Two 77W could be used. On Wednesday Luxon said he lived on the 'eastern seaboard' for 8 years and it would make New Zealand more accessible psychologically to be a two hour or one hour connecting flight away than a long flight to LAX. Sounds like ORD.

The AKL-SFO NZ8/NZ7 or AKL-LAX NZ6/NZ5 pair of 77W's could be used for AKL-IAH or AKL-ORD. LAX is unlikely as NZ likes to have the NZ5 77W ready to go as NZ1 if NZ1 is delayed out of LHR. The new US destination will divert pax from both SFO and LAX, but it appears there will be an increase of about six flights a week to the USA during the peak season.

PA515
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 24):
The AKL-SFO NZ8/NZ7 or AKL-LAX NZ6/NZ5 pair of 77W's could be used for AKL-IAH or AKL-ORD

I have to believe that you also need to consider the possibility of a 77W starting the AKL-EZE service. I think westbound from ORD will be pushing 16-hrs . I don't see a 77E on this route, and for this reason I don't see ORD as the choice for the third destination.
 
descl
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 21):
From what I can glean from Stats NZ the inbound passenger count from SCL is only ~21000 per year. Can't find anything on outbound > Oh that the NZ-ers. had a report as straight forward and detailed as BITRE

Hey, may I know where did you get that information from? Because as per Chile's Junta de aeronautica Civil, total passenger between SCL and AKL in 2014 was 87652.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting descl (Reply 26):
Because as per Chile's Junta de aeronautica Civil, total passenger between SCL and AKL in 2014 was 87652.

see what you can make from this link....

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_...ional-visitor-arrivals-dec-14.aspx
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 25):
I have to believe that you also need to consider the possibility of a 77W starting the AKL-EZE service. I think westbound from ORD will be pushing 16-hrs . I don't see a 77E on this route, and for this reason I don't see ORD as the choice for the third destination.

Dont see a 77E on ORD-AKL either, but the 77W appears capable.

JFK-LAX is 12,990 kms. Three flights daily with the CX 77W, 15h 50m, 16h 05m and 16h 05m. ORD-AKL is 13,170 kms, just 180 kms further, according to gc map.

The westbound / eastbound difference ORD-AKL would be slightly more than the 45min for SFO-AKL. The JFK-HKG eastbound /westbound difference is only 15min or 25min, which surprised me as the southern equivalents eastbound / westbound on LA SCL-AKL, and previously AR EZE-AKL, are both 1hr 50min.

ORD-AKL would probably have a more flexible transpacific routing than JFK-HKG, so more opportunity to avoid the stronger winds and save some time.

PA515
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:20 pm

Air NZ A320 ZK-OXH is on delivery as ANZ6397 and descending into MCT.

PA515

[Edited 2015-02-27 07:22:57]
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 23):
The wild card is the approval of the RR/777-200ER for operations at > 180-min. I am trying to find out whether this has happened. It needs to happen at the FAA level before the CAA can approve it

We have been operating EDTO 240 minute plans on certain 200s since late last year. It has already happened.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 30):
We have been operating EDTO 240 minute plans on certain 200s since late last year. It has already happened.

Thanks for clarifying this. Thus as I understand it, under Part 121 subpart N 121.959 (2) the RR/ 777-200ER has been approved for EDTO > 180-min . In fact later this year it will make 330-mins or 300-mins for cargo space fire suppression probably in time for the start of the AKL-EZE service. From earlier threads I understand 4 frames have been or are being brought up to the necessary standard. Again thanks !
 
Motorhussy
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting descl (Reply 26):
Hey, may I know where did you get that information from? Because as per Chile's Junta de aeronautica Civil, total passenger between SCL and AKL in 2014 was 87652.

¡Hola!

How does the Junta differentiate between passengers headed for Australia VS New Zealand? Is it information gleaned from people's departure cards? And if so, is it phrased in a way as to ask 'where does this flight terminate for you?' Or 'what is your main destination?' Just trying to determine whether this captures actual visitor numbers to New Zealand and not transit passengers in AKL as well, who may be getting on QF flights to MEL, BNE etc or even CX to HKG.

These figures differ considerably from the New Zealand stats which sunrisevalley provided the link to. I've always been a little dubious about the integrity of the data from this side of the Pacific.

Gracias.
come visit the south pacific
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:04 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 31):
Thus as I understand it, under Part 121 subpart N 121.959 (2) the RR/ 777-200ER has been approved for EDTO > 180-min

I have had confirmation from another source that the RR/777-200ER was approved by the FAA for > 180-min EDTO service in August 2014.

On P 43 of the link below is described an accelerated method of EDTO approval which can get an experienced EDTO 180 min. operator to 330-min EDTO after one year from EIS.

http://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/20...%E2%80%93%20Approval%20Process.pdf

[Edited 2015-02-27 15:13:03]
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:39 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 14):
Given Mr Wilson's history with misrepresentation of assets and conviction on four counts of fraud during his tenure at Kiwi, the Govt would rightly be wary of any interactions.
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 16):
How can a person convicted of fraud be an officer of a corporation?

In the latest statement (press release?) the airline in question - Kiwi Regional Airlines - announced plans for Taurange-Palmerston North-Nelson service, also with the Saab 340.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-ple...cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=11409574

"Kiwi Air founder Wilson's new company is ready to fly"

Ewan Wilson, the founder, was asked about his past and gave a curious response:

"Quizzed about his convictions on four counts of fraud after the collapse of Kiwi Air in 1996, Mr Wilson said there were no restrictions on his ability to be a chief executive. "The past does not define me," he said."

Fraud is fraud, so it surprises me that there are "no restrictions" on his ability to be an officer of a corporation, but I don't know the rules of that in NZ. The last sentence, while neat, dodges the issue - we are all defied, to some extent, by our past.

But he seems to have a lot of local support.

mariner
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 28):
The JFK-HKG eastbound /westbound difference is only 15min or 25min, which surprised me

This particular polar route flies the meridians and is flown both west and eastbound depending on the day. The winds are largely abeam so have minimal effect. I have seen a ORD-AKL flight plan for a 77W. The distance on the day was 7193nm and the time was 15hr 50 min. Winds were ~31k on the nose
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
Ewan Wilson, the founder, was asked about his past and gave a curious response

He may be the (big) mouth piece and there could be others who are the officers of the corporation.
 
descl
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:41 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 27):
see what you can make from this link....

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_....aspx

Thank You.

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 32):

¡Hola!

How does the Junta differentiate between passengers headed for Australia VS New Zealand? Is it information gleaned from people's departure cards? And if so, is it phrased in a way as to ask 'where does this flight terminate for you?' Or 'what is your main destination?' Just trying to determine whether this captures actual visitor numbers to New Zealand and not transit passengers in AKL as well, who may be getting on QF flights to MEL, BNE etc or even CX to HKG.

These figures differ considerably from the New Zealand stats which sunrisevalley provided the link to. I've always been a little dubious about the integrity of the data from this side of the Pacific.

Gracias.

Hola  

Well, I'm not sure how they get those numbers, but as per JAC's website, the information is given by the airlines and also through flight taxes collected by them.
For this particular flight total pax between SCL and AKL was 87.652, and between SCL and SYD was 62.571. Departures to AKL were 347 (January - December 2014).
So, clearly those 87.652 passengers departed/arrived to/from AKL, but we can not know how many had AKL as their final destination, and how many were on transit.
If figures provided by sunrisevalley are right, it would mean 50% of pax headed to AKL are connectig probably to Australia and Asia, but considering this is the only flight from South America to NZ, I highly doubt this is true.

Hope this answered your questions.
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 35):
Quoting PA515 (Reply 28):
The JFK-HKG eastbound /westbound difference is only 15min or 25min, which surprised me

This particular polar route flies the meridians and is flown both west and eastbound depending on the day. The winds are largely abeam so have minimal effect. I have seen a ORD-AKL flight plan for a 77W. The distance on the day was 7193nm and the time was 15hr 50 min. Winds were ~31k on the nose

AA's 77W DFW-HKG of 13,072 kms looks like a better indicator for an ORD-AKL of 13,170 kms.
DFW-HKG is 16hr 40min, HKG-DFW 15hr 25min.

PA515
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:48 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 25):
have to believe that you also need to consider the possibility of a 77W starting the AKL-EZE service. I think westbound from ORD will be pushing 16-hrs . I don't see a 77E on this route, and for this reason I don't see ORD as the choice for the third destination.

Perhaps, but the airline explicitly stated that AKL-EZE would be served by 77E when the sservice was announced. I doubt they would change their minds so quickly unless there has been an unexpected development - considering that they also stated that they are considering a third mainland US destination I imagine they've thought the likely equipment through in the context of AKL-EZE as well.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:48 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 38):
AA's 77W DFW-HKG of 13,072 kms looks like a better indicator for an ORD-AKL of 13,170 kms.
DFW-HKG is 16hr 40min, HKG-DFW 15hr 25min.

Add 5 mins to the DFW-HKG, HKG-DFW for the extra 98 kms makes AKL-ORD 15h 30m, ORD-AKL 16h 45m.
'Northern Summer' schedule of AKL-ORD 1930/1800, ORD-AKL 2030/0615 (AKL GMT +12, ORD GMT -5)
'Northern Winter' schedule of AKL-ORD 1930/1600, ORD-AKL 1830/0615 (AKL GMT +13, ORD GMT -6)

PA515

[Edited 2015-02-27 19:58:45]

[Edited 2015-02-27 19:59:17]
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:12 am

Anyone know when NZs SYD lounge re-opens? The temporary one is simply too small and with just over 1 hour before the first of 2 NZ departures (WLG then CHC), the lounge is certainly filling up fast!
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:17 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 40):
'Northern Summer' schedule of AKL-ORD 1930/1800, ORD-AKL 2030/0615 (AKL GMT +12, ORD GMT -5)
'Northern Winter' schedule of AKL-ORD 1930/1600, ORD-AKL 1830/0615 (AKL GMT +13, ORD GMT -6)

The summer schedule would rule out many same day connections for some people from ORD once you take into account clearing Customs/connecting etc.

I wouldn't fancy arriving in DTW, YYZ, EWR after 2200 (local DTW, YYZ, EWR time) and then having to get to the hotel/rental car location. Would rather fly into LAX and catch a red eye or use UA/QF via Australia and arrive before 2000 into those destinations
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PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 42):

How about this then:
'Northern Summer' AKL-ORD 1630/1500, ORD-AKL 1930/0515
'Northern Winter' AKL-ORD 1630/1300, ORD-AKL 1730/0515

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:30 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 39):
Perhaps, but the airline explicitly stated that AKL-EZE would be served by 77E when the sservice was announced. I doubt they would change their minds so quickly unless there has been an unexpected development - considering that they also stated that they are considering a third mainland US destination I imagine they've thought the likely equipment through in the context of AKL-EZE as well.

Until yesterday I had not been able to verify from any source that the FAA ( and thus CAANZ) had approved the RR/777-200ER for EDTO > 180-mins. Yesterday I got verification that it was approved as recently as Aug.2014. So any caveats that I had are no longer valid  sorry 

[Edited 2015-02-28 02:34:27]
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:29 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 40):
AKL-ORD 15h 30m, ORD-AKL 16h 45m

Based on LAX-AKL timetable time of 13hrs your ORD-AKL time is close but it takes the 77E out of the running to provide the service. NZ have readied 4 77E frames for AKL-EZE and AKL-3rd US destination. What frequency do you think they can get on these two routes with 4 frames? I am guessing the rotation time will be similar to NZ5/6 but with less time on the ground than 5/6.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 45):

Hugh, what made you so sure the 77E would be used to the new USA destination?

Last year Luxon said it would be a '777'. He didn't specify which type. Last Wednesday he said the new destination would be "a two hour or one hour connection" from eastern seaboard cities. That has to be ORD with the 77W.

Any new destination will divert pax from SFO and LAX. If daily, either the NZ8/NZ7 77W or NZ6/NZ5 77W would have to be replaced with a 77E / 789, or both reduced to a 77W three days a week with a 77E / 789 on other days. A 789 would only be available for six AKL-LAX/SFO a week, unless there were some daylight returns which Air NZ don't seem interested in.

The Press Release said AKL-EZE is bookable from March, so those schedule details are not far away.

Two possibilities:
AKL-EZE 2030/1620, EZE-AKL 2345/0525
Gives the best transtasman connections to SYD, MEL, BNE, ADL, OOL. 2030 was used for NZ4 which will be changing to 1600.

AKL-EZE 2359/1950, EZE-AKL 0830/1410
These EZE arrival and departure times were used by AR for the EZE-SYD-EZE flights with overnight connections to/from Brazil.

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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 46):
Hugh, what made you so sure the 77E would be used to the new USA destination?

I believe that the third US mainland destination was one of the reason's for needing EDTO -240min for the 77E . Certainly 77E 240 min does not hurt on LAX-AKL as the 240-min 77W has shown under certain weather conditions .



Quoting PA515 (Reply 46):
Last Wednesday he said the new destination would be "a two hour or one hour connection" from eastern seaboard cities

ORD-LGA is about 1.5 hrs and IAH -LGA is about an hour longer . But AKL-ORD will be close to 2 hrs. further than AKL-IAH. I think Mr Luxon is being a little mischievous on this one. At one time NZ had a good cargo business out of ORD but I cannot see much more than ~ 212t ZFW possible ORD-AKL or 35t payload on a timetable day . That is about max passenger load. But I think there will be many 16hr days which will improve that by at least 5t. However it is fun ( to me) to speculate and before long all will be revealed  
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 47):
before long all will be revealed

Do you think?? A new US destination has been on the table/any day now/announcement imminent for some years now. Sure, there's been a bit of activity in the media of late, but nothing of real substance.

I suspect NZ are spinning this out as long as they can simply to discourage other players to enter the NZ-USA direct market.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread 154

Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:35 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 48):
I suspect NZ are spinning this out as long as they can simply to discourage other players to enter the NZ-USA direct market.

Or not, as the case may be, perhaps depending on your attitude to Air NZ. I don't think it is something they should rush into.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/3...says-cheaper-fares-could-be-coming

"Air New Zealand is also working on plans to fly to a third United States mainland destination, in the interior or close to the eastern seaboard. Luxon said he hoped to make an announcement soon on the new route.

Cities in the running include Chicago, Houston and Las Vegas."


Out of those three, I'd vote for LAS.  

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