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Boeing778X
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Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:01 pm

It's been over a month since the rumor of UA ordering 77Ws started, and has since faded from the public eye. That got me to thinking, does UA really need the 77W? True, if they did order it, they'd get their first in a year, 2 years ahead of the A350-1000 and 787-10. Plus, there would commonality with the 777-200s, but I think the biggest selling point concerning the 777-300ER is the 747-400. Exactly how desperate is UA about retiring their 744s?

But, in reality, the A350-1000s were ordered to replace the 744s as well. Could UA really hold out operating their 747-400s for another 2-3 years?

[Edited 2015-02-26 15:03:08]
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phxa340
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:08 pm

United is not stupid, contrary to some members beliefs on here. They know the economics down the last detail. If they are considering it and it has gotten to this negotiation stage - yes United feels that they do really need it.

There might be more behind the scenes we don't know about. Maybe their 744s are literally requiring so much maintenance that they can't wait 2-4 years. Maybe there is going to be a delay in receiving their A351s. Or maybe the Boeing is simply giving them such an amazing price that their economics are close enough to the A351s with current fuel prices that United deems its worth it.

But yes - United desperately needs something the capacity of the 744 that is not the 744.
 
jfk777
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:18 pm

United should get the 77W because there is no plane that big they can receive that soon. United should also do a 777-9 order at the same time. UA needs to et Delta be the last US airline flying the 747.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:21 pm

It's not a matter of "need," it's a matter of "all things considered, is it more profitable?" And they will pull the trigger if the answer is "yes."

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 1):
They know the economics down the last detail.

  
 
kaitak
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:31 pm

Their CEO also mentioned that the UA 77W order, if it happened, wouldn't so much be an order but a conversion of existing options for other types, so they also need to model the profitability of the 77W against (for example a 789) and be able to say that the extra cost is justified. We may think it is, but if an aircraft has (say) 50 more seats, is that extra capacity going to generate extra profit, because if it's just Economy seats it may not do so. Of course, with the 77W, there is also the very much higher underfloor cargo capacity, which would certainly be of interest to UAL.

It'll happen when it happens and I am sure that both sides are working out the detail. Boeing still has a good number of "Classic" 777 production slots to fill before the 777X comes out and they obviously don't want to see such a valued customer as UAL reliant on Airbus for its large long hauler requirements.
 
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:06 am

If the MX situation with some of the 747s is what they say it is, then they do need the 77Ws. Additionally, that airplane is currently rather cheap to buy from Boeing right now, as Boeing is really looking for bridge orders between the current 777s and the 777X.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 1):
United is not stupid, contrary to some members beliefs on here. They know the economics down the last detail.

They chose SHARES, instead of going to Altea or sticking with Apollo/Fastair in the interim. That was ridiculously stupid. The cost in IRROPS handling and dropped segments alone destroys the price difference.
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tommy767
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:20 am

People have to let this go. Doesn't look like it's happening.

Instead, looks like UA will be taking 9 of the current Hawaii 777s and 10-11 of sUA 3-Class 777s and make them high density ships. And thank god since those Hawaii 777's are a joke with no AVOD on 6-9 hour flights and inactive powerports.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 1):
United is not stupid, contrary to some members beliefs on here.

The airline itself? No. The Management Team in Chicago? Yes.
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TWA772LR
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Thread starter):

Think about it like this.

UA can profitably fill a 744, but that particular aircraft is getting more expensive to operate. Let's say UA ordered the 77W already, they can definitely fill that (since its a slightly smaller aircraft, with more cargo capacity) on a current 744 route. And those 747s are getting closer to D checks, which cost millions. So why not take those millions as down payments for those new planes as well as the money from the options for the acquisition cost.

Couple all of that with a preexisting family member (77A and 77E) already in the fleet and you save millions on maintenance and crew training. Essentially all you'd have to pay for are spare engines and re-striping the lines at the gates.

UA is all about saving money. Adding another 777 type is a low-risk, low-cost move to cut costs until the intended 744 replacement (the A35J) arrives. Who knows? Maybe this will spur them to order the 777X.

And that's that in a nut shell.
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UA444
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:41 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):

Even if UA ordered 773s, they'd still have the 747s longer than DL. And rightfully so.
 
S75752
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:55 am

I'd say they do. The 744's are in dire need of replacement, particularly from an Economy standpoint. If customer dissatisfaction, combined with a (probably hopeful) passenger enlightenmnt to learn to avoid the 744 can push them to do it alongside the looming D checks and rising maintenance costs, then all the better.

If they were to convert some orders, I'd expect to see the far less capable but closely sized 787-10 converted.
 
codc10
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:09 am

Boeing is rumored to announce a 77W PIP in March, which would be a logical time to announce a UAL order for the 77W.
 
trex8
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting codc10 (Reply 10):

Boeing is rumored to announce a 77W PIP in March, which would be a logical time to announce a UAL order for the 77W.

Is this different from the 2% fuel burn PIP supposed to be delivered in 2016?
 
nate1879
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:41 am

What is the high density configuration?

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
Instead, looks like UA will be taking 9 of the current Hawaii 777s and 10-11 of sUA 3-Class 777s and make them high density ships. And thank god since those Hawaii 777's are a joke with no AVOD on 6-9 hour flights and inactive powerports.
over a million miles and counting from TYS
 
CONTACREW
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting nate1879 (Reply 12):

28J/98Y+/238Y
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Boeing778X
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 7):
Think about it like this.

UA can profitably fill a 744, but that particular aircraft is getting more expensive to operate. Let's say UA ordered the 77W already, they can definitely fill that (since its a slightly smaller aircraft, with more cargo capacity) on a current 744 route. And those 747s are getting closer to D checks, which cost millions. So why not take those millions as down payments for those new planes as well as the money from the options for the acquisition cost.

Couple all of that with a preexisting family member (77A and 77E) already in the fleet and you save millions on maintenance and crew training. Essentially all you'd have to pay for are spare engines and re-striping the lines at the gates.

UA is all about saving money. Adding another 777 type is a low-risk, low-cost move to cut costs until the intended 744 replacement (the A35J) arrives. Who knows? Maybe this will spur them to order the 777X.

And that's that in a nut shell.

I mean, sure, they CAN profitably fill a 747-400, but that doesn't mean they WILL every single time, and they don't, more times than they do as far as I'm concerned.

Regardless, the outcome intended should be the same; they must retire the 747-400s as quickly as possible. Because, let's face it, even if they did fly at 95%+ capacity 100% of the time, the millions spent just maintaining the thing would probably outweigh the benefits of those full flights every time. And with these particular planes, required maintenance is frequent, and with D-Checks coming up, like you said, they must be dreading it.

So yes, getting more 777s is low risk, and if they decide to do that, then good on them. If they decide to get the 777X, that'd be a plus for them too, especially if they can fill them up. Worse case scenario, they'll probably have to refit more 777-200s, and perhaps some -200ERs to keep up with things the next few years.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
United should get the 77W because there is no plane that big they can receive that soon. United should also do a 777-9 order at the same time.

You mean a split 777-300ER/777-9 order?
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BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 9):
I'd say they do. The 744's are in dire need of replacement, particularly from an Economy standpoint

You're repeating old, outdated news. The 744's used to have lousy economy (as far as entertainment is concerned), but now they have wifi for entertainment support and in seat power. Use your own tablet instead of some crappy proprietary seatback screen. Plus, better seats than a lot of modern day economy seats. I'd rather fly a UA 744 than whatever 10 across torture they'll install in their 77W.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:13 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):

Instead, looks like UA will be taking 9 of the current Hawaii 777s and 10-11 of sUA 3-Class 777s and make them high density ships. And thank god since those Hawaii 777's are a joke with no AVOD on 6-9 hour flights and inactive powerports.

The HA high density 777 is fine to me just that they really need the power-ports cabin-wide, it was not very good when I once flew one in first class and did not have a power-port to really keep my movies running off the wi-fi system.
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chrisp390
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:02 am

Maybe Airbus is trying to sway them towards the A380 since details of the 777 order came out and it is holding things up?  
 
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shengzhurou
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:42 am

many of a netters here said the economy class on ua747 is terrible, when was the last time you flew it? they have ISPS and WIFI , it's better to bring your own tablet or phone than using the IFE on board. I spend more time texting and web surfing, than watching many sets of movies on the plane. it's really not that bad at all compared to the 3-4-3 777s i have been on. the only down point is that I have had two AOGs from the past 20 trips on ua's 747 in the last 20months. adding 77W in the fleet would be good for flights operating from ORD or EWR or SFO to destinations with more than 14hours of flight time, it can fly with more range and cargo. I know the ORD/EWR - HKG flights have a weight restrictions a 77W will be a better plane on this. Also SFO - HKG in the winter season, I have been offloaded due to weight restriction on this route for another flight with compensation. they can also config the 77W to GF products if needed since it's a very long airplane or make it a two class airplane with seating around 350-370 pax, perfect for the 744 replacement
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:56 am

Quoting malaysia (Reply 16):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):

Instead, looks like SA)">UA will be taking 9 of the current Hawaii 777s and 10-11 of sUA 3-Class 777s and make them high density ships. And thank god since those Hawaii 777's are a joke with no AVOD on 6-9 hour flights and inactive powerports.

The SA)">HA high density 777 is fine to me just that they really need the power-ports cabin-wide, it was not very good when I once flew one in first class and did not have a power-port to really keep my movies running off the wi-fi system.

Power ports are being installed now at a slow pace. 1 completed, but maybe waiting to do seat conversions on at least some. I'm pretty sure AVOD won't be installed, rather Streaming WiFi content.

I don't believe a number of the Intl 772A aircraft to be converted has been announced. Sure, the 9 high density aircraft will get lie flats up front and 10 across in Y, but don't know how many, if any, of the 10 International aircraft could get a retrofit. If they can make EWR-HNL, IAD-HNL and maybe be moved to HNL-NRT that would take 3 units. More Hawaii flying could take more, but who knows if moving high density aircraft to TATL or SA heavy leisure markets is in the cards.
 
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:51 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 17):

Maybe Airbus is trying to sway them towards the A380 since details of the 777 order came out and it is holding things up?  

That would be awesome! If there was a US carrier which could use the A380 it would be UA. Likewise, they could use the 77W too.
Keep on truckin'...
 
warren747sp
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:50 am

RE-reply 20
Wrong!! What they need to order is the beloved B748 since they have no problem filling it with people and freight.
747SP
 
trex8
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:11 am

Quoting warren747sp (Reply 21):
Wrong!! What they need to order is the beloved B748 since they have no problem filling it with people and freight.

When UA ordered the A359 it was supposed to be the 744 replacement.Presumably that was the optimum size they thought at the time they could fill and run on 744 routes. That may have changed to A35J size now but I doubt they can fill a 748, at least not profitably. As for cargo the A35J holds 6 more LD3s than a 747-8. Much as I love the 747 its days are numbered.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:17 am

6 of the 744's are within 300 Days of an overhaul coming due, Many of the rest have between 1200-2100 Days remaining to their Next Overhaul
The 744's are NOT in any distress as a fleet . It requires no more care than the 777's But.
It does need an experienced crew and the previous basing they tried sending the airplane to IAH ORD and EWR wasn't going to work because the company failed to close the Mechanic's contract and there are STILL separated agreements where either the UA Mechanics work on the airplane or the CO Mechanics work on it.
Since the CO side has NO 744 Experience it was wiser to restrict it to the UA mechanic group at SFO where we have crews dedicated TO the 744 and the 777.
At anytime of day you can look across the field at SFO and see Multiple 744's and 777's parked outside of the "Super Bay" on the east side of the field there United's Ramp 12 crew maintains both fleets.
The Int'l Terminal Crew Ramp 10 turns and maintains them while at the terminal.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:29 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 17):
Maybe Airbus is trying to sway them towards the A380 since details of the 777 order came out and it is holding things up?

Honestly? I don't see us EVER getting the A380. It's not an airplane we'd ever need the reasoning for it would make no sense. If we were going to invest in another VLA
it would be the 747-8i as we already have vast experience with the 747 and have full facilities set up For the airplane. And?? I Doubt We'll even get THAT.
The 777-300ER would be the most logical choice until the 777X hits the streets when I suspect UAL would order the 777-8 and s few -9's..
Especially if there's No A360 coming to compete with it (which would be a Blunder on Airbus's part)
 
fun2fly
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:37 am

As a guy that just flew 14 hrs this week on a UA744, I can say that they need to be replaced or rip the ISP out. In my 23H seat you could only extend your left leg, which is not bad if you don't have a right leg or very uncomfortable for the rest of us. Not sure how UA screwed that up. IFE is nice on your tablet however.

Anyhow, yest sure hope the 77w happens. Base all 10 out of ORD for NRT HKG PVG PEK and FRA and no more 747s at ORD!
 
RandWkop
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:11 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 17):

Maybe Airbus has a few A346s hanging about which they are willing to give to UA FOC with training and discounted maintenance until the A350-1000 arrives   
 
Andy33
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:49 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 24):
Honestly? I don't see us EVER getting the A380. It's not an airplane we'd ever need the reasoning for it would make no sense. If we were going to invest in another VLA
it would be the 747-8i as we already have vast experience with the 747 and have full facilities set up For the airplane.

I agree that UA really don't need the A380 with the network and frequency model they are using, and I can't see that they'd change that model any time soon.

The idea that because the airline has lots of experience with 747s the 748i would be the obvious choice for a VLA is less clear though. Look at BA - largest fleet of passenger 744s in the world. Full in-house heavy maintenance capability for 744s in the UK, lots of 747 qualified pilots and F/As. What long-haul aircraft are being delivered this year? A380s and 789s.
The 748i really didn't measure up to their requirements despite all the accumulated experience,but they are still happy to buy Boeing's newer designs (and they had 77Ws delivered last year too).
 
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par13del
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:57 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
The airline itself? No. The Management Team in Chicago? Yes.

Well since the airline is whatever management says, does and imlements........... 
The workforce is still not together after how many years, so they are both peas in the same pod.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:18 pm

There are some routes where the 77W would work perfectly now for United. Some of the longer 777 routes would benefit from the range and capacity. ORD-HKG, EWR-HKG, LAX/SFO-SYD, etc.

I think with the A350 and 777x now on the market, Boeing had to drop the 77W price. It used to be one of the highest margin airplanes for sale since nothing could touch it regarding efficiency, but now with much more competition, the price had to drop and suddenly it is more attractive to UA. Boeing wants to sell some slots, UA could use the interim capacity and range, so it does not surprise me that there is a business justification to purchase it. I wouldn't even be surprised to see Delta come in and busy some last off the line 77Ws.
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:29 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 23):

There are no mechanic restriction regarding who can work on what. The CO group had no airbus experience, but that didn't stop UA from diversifying. The problem with the 747 is that WHEN it breaks, there aren't facilites to fix it in EWR or IAH.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 8):
Even if UA ordered 773s, they'd still have the 747s longer than DL. And rightfully so.

Don't understand the "rightfully so" part. Pls explain
 
stratacruiser
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:53 pm

Flew a UA 744 ICN-SFO yesterday...very pleasant, but with an upgrade to C that's not a surprise. I'm struck though by the perception here that UA's birds are ancient....while there are a couple approaching the 25 year mark, several are younger than many of the 772s that make up the majority of the intercontinental fleet.
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting RandWKOP (Reply 26):
Maybe Airbus has a few A346s hanging about which they are willing to give to UA FOC with training and discounted maintenance until the A350-1000 arrives   

And pay for gas used by 2 of those engines?  
 
trex8
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 33):
And pay for gas used by 2 of those engines?  

Well its still more than 2 tons/hr less than a 744!
 
UA444
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:00 pm

[quote=bobnwa,reply=31]
UA has flown it since the 70s and longer than any USA carrier, they should be the ones to retire it. The 747 isn't significant to DL's history.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 30):
The CO group had no airbus experience

Well, they did operate a fair amount of A300B2 and B4s in the 80s and into the 90s. The A300 is all but irrelevant now, but just thought I should state that.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 29):
I wouldn't even be surprised to see Delta come in and busy some last off the line 77Ws.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that. Seems like DL is deeply committed to Airbus now.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 25):
Maybe Airbus has a few A346s hanging about which they are willing to give to UA FOC with training and discounted maintenance until the A350-1000 arrives  
Quoting hz747300 (Reply 20):
That would be awesome! If there was a US carrier which could use the A380 it would be UA
Quoting warren747sp (Reply 21):
Wrong!! What they need to order is the beloved B748 since they have no problem filling it with people and freight.

I'll keep things as simple as possible.

No.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
strfyr51
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 30):
There are no mechanic restriction regarding who can work on what. The CO group had no airbus experience, but that didn't stop UA from diversifying. The problem with the 747 is that WHEN it breaks, there aren't facilites to fix it in EWR or IAH.

I beg to differ, If the S CO mechanics are working the airplane the SUA mechanics cannot assist them without violating their CBA.
We've debated the Hell out of this especially when it comes to Tank Entries you wouldn't BELIEVE the Rigamorole!!
The Sco guys have learned to work the A320/A319's so it's NOT Impossible they could learn to work the 747's.
Hangar Docking them though?? I don't know. The ORD 747 bay is going to fall for a new runway I hear.
Denver has no 747 flights though they have the room for a 747 sized Dock. EWR would have to give up 4-5 hangars to even Build a Dock for a 747.
The Only nearby facility capable would be at JFK like Hangars 12. and 19 where 4 744's could fit wingtip to wingtip ..
 
B737900ER
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 36):

The A300 is nothing like the A320

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 37):

Like I said, there are no restriction on who can work on what. Fleets have no fences. Nothing in the context of what I wrote had anything to do with working together.
 
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thebatman
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting warren747sp (Reply 21):
Wrong!! What they need to order is the beloved B748 since they have no problem filling it with people and freight.

  

I, like a lot of other a-nutters on here, spend quite a bit of time reading through these posts. I don't think I can go a week without reading about 1) is the 737-900ER or A321 really a true 757 replacement 2) is the 777-300ER really a true replacement for the 744 and why doesn't UA or DL order a ton of them...and 3) when will UA or DL order the 748 or A380?

I absolutely adore the 744. I've worked on them for 20+ years and look at her as the true "queen of the skies". I do not have a degree in economics, but I can relay what I see. We handle LH's operations (not 100% - they have their own people too) at my station and I talk with their MX people frequently. They seem to be very happy with the 748i. It's not the horrific gas pig everyone makes it out to be. I would absolutely love it if UA would order some, but I don't ever think it will happen. The 77W is the perfect airplane to replace the 744 RIGHT NOW. It's the right size, it's economical and it's available.

On a side note, LH's people refuse to give me details on their like or dislike of the A380. They seem very unhappy with it and just "don't want to talk about it".
Aircraft mechanics - because pilots need heroes too!
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:11 pm

Out of curiosity, how would an order of 10x 777-300ERs and 10x 777-9s fair with UA?
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
ukoverlander
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:53 pm

Quoting shengzhurou (Reply 18):
many of a netters here said the economy class on ua747 is terrible, when was the last time you flew it? they have ISPS and WIFI , it's better to bring your own tablet or phone than using the IFE on board. I spend more time texting and web surfing, than watching many sets of movies on the plane.

I fly on UA's 747's about 10 times a year on routes to Asia and Europe (about 40% business and 60% economy). The economy class product is inferior to the great majority of Western International airlines. Many airlines (Virgin, Continental for example) had seat back screens in economy in the late 90's. I own a tablet but as a passenger shouldn't have to own a tablet to access video entertainment in economy on a long haul flights - that simply isn't the international market standard especially on long duration flights like Hong Kong, London and Frankfurt.

It's simple enough. United need to step up, do better and be held to a higher standard. I have nearly 2 million miles on United - not out of genuine loyalty, but due to a lack of genuine 'mileage friendly' choices/alternatives out of SFO. The 747 economy product is a bad joke at best.
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:46 pm

I heard complaints years ago about the frequent mechanical delays with the 744 on HKG-ORD. While moving them all to SFO for a while may have helped a bit, I doubt their reliability has improved much. However the collapse in oil prices certainly changed the calculations and it might be cheaper to keep the 744s in the air rather than using the 77W as a stopgap until the A350s arrive and just live with the mechanical problems.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2213
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:49 am

Counting on oil prices to stay this low isn't a good business strategy. UA either needs to step up the ISP/Streaming WiFi completion and suck up the overhaul costs on the 744 or order the 77W.

My suspicion is that UA is finalizing the details with Boeing before making it official. They'll then rotate out 744s as the next big checks come due and bridge with 789s or 77Es until the 77Ws arrive.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 41):
Many airlines (Virgin, Continental for example) had seat back screens in economy in the late 90's

CO had plenty of planes with no PTV. The D10 and the 757 back then for example.

UA had seat back screens in economy on the 777 and 763 in the late 1990s. It was the 744s that were to have eventual installation of them but the project was canned after 9/11. Same with putting PTVs on the AA 763s.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4148
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting thebatman (Reply 39):
On a side note, LH's people refuse to give me details on their like or dislike of the A380. They seem very unhappy with it and just "don't want to talk about it".

*******************************************************************************************************************************************
Y'tjink? Since Germany is into the Building of the airplane it would be pretty Lame for them to tell you they don't like it.
What they Won't say might speak VOLUMES. !
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4148
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:22 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 43):
My suspicion is that UA is finalizing the details with Boeing before making it official. They'll then rotate out 744s as the next big checks come due and bridge with 789s or 77Es until the 77Ws arrive.

*******************************************************************************************************************************************
That would make perfent sense since the order of retirement (HMV) extends from 2016 thru 2019 when the last one comes up for HMV . By then? All of them will have 100K hours on them..
Though? I'm Not at all sure 10 77W's will fill the bill to replace all 24 744's.. I think at least 18 might be needed.
 
UA444
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:18 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 44):

Yep. And part of the reason why the 744s never had them was weight. They were needed on long flights to Asia and Australia where payload and range were essential.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26527
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:56 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 34):
Well its still more than 2 tons/hr less than a 744!

And the 744 holds 50 or so more seats, still having a lower CASM.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 47):

That's not the reason, at all. Lighter seats could have fixed that issue. The real problem is that Tilton didn't want to spend the money.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:53 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 48):

.....Smisek doesn't either. Then he goes on record to say the 744s are an embarrassment and doesn't do anything about it. Not like he's any more responsible.

[Edited 2015-02-27 22:29:07]
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA

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