Andy33
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 45):
Y'tjink? Since Germany is into the Building of the airplane it would be pretty Lame for them to tell you they don't like it.
What they Won't say might speak VOLUMES. !

There's your problem, I think. Germans of all people have learnt that "my country, right or wrong" is a very bad philosophy indeed.
Some posters on a-net still seem to see supporting models of aircraft built in their country, and running down ones built elsewhere, as their patriotic duty, without looking at the objective reality.
 
UA444
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:20 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 48):

It predates Tilton. Weight was a concern back in the 90s.

[Edited 2015-02-27 22:23:06]
 
infinit
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:12 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:25 am

Was wondering.. Do you guys think the economics of the 77W would work fell for premium domestic routes like New York to Los Angeles? I would imagine the 787s would be more suited.
I tend to think of the 77Ws as a plane more suitable for premium-heavy models (like SQ)
 
ukoverlander
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:09 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 44):
CO had plenty of planes with no PTV. The D10 and the 757 back then for example.

- Continental were in the process of replacing those DC10's with the 777's that came equipped with PTV's installed.

- 757's are not relevant to my point given that they are not flying the same 9-14 hour long haul missions as the 747.

My discussion point is that the United 747 economy product is sub par and well below international standards for long haul - not just today but for many, many years.
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:40 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Thread starter):
It's been over a month since the rumor of UA ordering 77Ws started, and has since faded from the public eye. That got me to thinking, does UA really need the 77W?

Given the number of 744s still in the UA fleet and what is planned for them... and given that the 77W is an ideal 744 replacement as well as being much more efficient and reliable... and given that UA can get their hands on the 77W quicker than any other potential 744 replacement candidate... I would say that whilst UA might not 'need' the 77W, it would be a pretty good idea to get and operate some ASAP   

[Edited 2015-02-28 01:42:15]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
United1
Posts: 3906
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 49):
.Smisek doesn't either. Then he goes on record to say the 744s are an embarrassment and doesn't do anything about it. Not like he's any more responsible.

...adding WiFi, streaming video and power ports is doing nothing?
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 47):

Yep. And part of the reason why the 744s never had them was weight. They were needed on long flights to Asia and Australia where payload and range were essential.

Yet ironically, the 772 (the PW not GE 772 at that) is doing fine on that with PTV's and whatever else.

Quoting United1 (Reply 55):

...adding WiFi, streaming video and power ports is doing nothing?

The power ports is the most important one. Has that been reliable so far, or has it been having issues too? That still appears to not be done on the whole fleet, and it's been how long?

The WiFi and Streaming, on the other hand, has been incredibly unreliable, functioning on about 50% of the domestic flights I've taken. Not worth taking those chances on a 15 hour HKG flight. And unlike PTV's, not a simple matter of moving to a different seat when it's not working.

...Or you could take CX or SQ on said HKG run and get a 100% chance of power ports and probably a very high chance of accessible entertainment. You'd simply miss the novelty of the 744. Not like there's much difference to be told inside the metal tube unless you're flying J up above, in which case you'll be getting stellar service no matter who you fly.
 
User avatar
thebatman
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:15 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 45):
Y'tjink? Since Germany is into the Building of the airplane it would be pretty Lame for them to tell you they don't like it.
What they Won't say might speak VOLUMES. !

Well they have no problem telling me how much they like the other Airbus products, and believe me...they have no hesitation in giving their opinion about German vs American products. I've talked to them about all kinds of things: food, football (soccer), cars, beer, fuel prices, you name it. There is no lack of German pride within their operation, that's for sure! Regarding the A380, they really don't want to discuss it. I find that interesting. Now, take into consideration that this is a handful of MX employees and doesn't represent LH as a whole.
Aircraft mechanics - because pilots need heroes too!
 
tmu101
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:04 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:28 pm

Too bad UA doesn't order a few 748s if nothing for nostalgia. I know economics dictate airplane type purchases but one can dream.   
 
United1
Posts: 3906
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 56):
Quoting United1 (Reply 55):

...adding WiFi, streaming video and power ports is doing nothing?

The power ports is the most important one. Has that been reliable so far, or has it been having issues too? That still appears to not be done on the whole fleet, and it's been how long?

The WiFi and Streaming, on the other hand, has been incredibly unreliable, functioning on about 50% of the domestic flights I've taken. Not worth taking those chances on a 15 hour HKG flight. And unlike PTV's, not a simple matter of moving to a different seat when it's not working

...Haven't checked out the international WiFi system yet but I've had no issues with streaming system on any flight I've taken on any of the Airbii or on the 747. Seems to be fairly reliable and stable...also the content is actually expanded vs the AVOD system.

They started installing power ports what the middle/end of last year and are about 3/4th of the way done....that's a fairly rapid deployment.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 55):
...adding WiFi, streaming video and power ports is doing nothing?

WiFi & Streaming is notoriously unreliable and not sure if/when they started power port installation yet. Either way, Smisek should actually installed the AVOD since these planes will be around for a while.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4175
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:53 pm

Since the seat's had no provision for Wi-Fi power? I think that might have been an oversight. But? Since nobody will be held accountable for it?
It's a moot point. We have 500+ airplanes with Wi Fi Installed and Panasonic and GoGo are doing what it takes to get the reliability up there.
I'm seeing a LOT less deferrals for the Wi Fi than I did a year ago.
 
United1
Posts: 3906
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 60):
Either way, Smisek should actually installed the AVOD since these planes will be around for a while.

What's the ROI on AVOD on the 744s....you have been claiming for years that the answers to all of life troubles is to retrofit an AVOD system on all aircraft. Show me the numbers that prove that the best decision UA could make is to retrofit an AVOD system onto the 747-400...

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 60):
WiFi & Streaming is notoriously unreliable and not sure if/when they started power port installation yet.

They are about 3/4th of the way through installing power ports and the streaming system works fine...more content than the AVOD system has actually.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13973
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 60):
WiFi & Streaming is notoriously unreliable and not sure if/when they started power port installation yet.

The WIFI streaming works better than having seat back PTVs. The resolution on my Ipad is better than anything the airlines could put in the seat backs. I've used it on UA's A320s, my personal experience was that it worked brilliantly.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
Instead, looks like UA will be taking 9 of the current Hawaii 777s and 10-11 of sUA 3-Class 777s and make them high density ships. And thank god since those Hawaii 777's are a joke with no AVOD on 6-9 hour flights and inactive powerports.

I don't think you have your information correct on this, why would they go back and install PTVs in the Hawaii 777s? They could of done that already, this is about the A model 777s currently in 3 class International configuration. They're going to be reconfigured with a more leisure destination in mind, such as Rome.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:29 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 62):

What's the ROI on AVOD on the 744s....you have been claiming for years that the answers to all of life troubles is to retrofit an AVOD system on all aircraft. Show me the numbers that prove that the best decision UA could make is to retrofit an AVOD system onto the 747-400...

Things like this make me wish that search engines like Kayak would have some level of integration with Seatguru, so a customer looking at a low fare could make an informed decision regarding the features a craft will have rather than having to either just assume it will be like previous flights on other craft or having to dig deeply themselves.
That would hold them accountable for it, as they deserve to be.

However, would it be a waste? By installing an AVOD system, couldn't they go on to remove and reuse it on new aircraft when the 747 is retired?
As for weight, is that even a factor anymore? On the 788, there is no bulky box under the seat at all. It seems that all the capabilities they could need can be contained within the screen itself nowadays, as we observe with modern tablets.

Quoting United1 (Reply 59):
Seems to be fairly reliable and stable...also the content is actually expanded vs the AVOD system.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 63):
The WIFI streaming works better than having seat back PTVs. The resolution on my Ipad is better than anything the airlines could put in the seat backs. I've used it on UA's A320s, my personal experience was that it worked brilliantly.

You both must be incredibly lucky then. Out of about 12 flights on retrofitted planes, the streaming was actually working on about 6 of them in my experience. If the streaming wasn't working, wifi wasn't either. When malfunctioning, it would seem to malfunction to various degrees. In some cases, it would be where the network itself was connectable and I could access as far as the moving map, but the uplink to the satellite itself was not available, and oddly nor was streaming. In other cases, the network is connectable but no page ever loads in, making all features obviously unavailable (or resulting in a placeholder "unavailable" page).
In the times that Wifi and Streaming were present, then it was quite nice. As you mention, being able to watch videos at a higher size and resolution than a PTV is very nice. However, they need to get it to a good state of reliability before it is able to be a real viable solution on any long haul flight, and they need to have the FA's know how to quickly and easily reset the system when it is malfunctioning, just like how they can reset a malfunctioning PTV system.

Where the system will be more troubled is Transcons. All of the dominant transcon craft lack sufficient power ports in Economy, with the 738 only featuring in E+, and the 752 (Domestic non-PS) and 320 Series (also getting only E+) currently lacking them completely. A laptop will last maybe 3 hours at best while viewing the flash-based streaming page while of course keeping a constant wifi link active.
It's still better than what the competition aside from VX and B6 typically offer on a transcon, though.


I do wonder if the FA's are trained in how to restart the system when that does occur. If not, then hopefully it is a simple process for them to learn, some sort of switch flick. If it is not such a simple system, then that seems like questionnable design. Then again, I have more of a personal computers background than an aviation one, so I'm not entirely sure how such a system would be configured.

Quoting United1 (Reply 59):

They started installing power ports what the middle/end of last year and are about 3/4th of the way done....that's a fairly rapid deployment.

Initially they had promised to have it installed in 2013. Took them until quite late 2014. They had only one with power installed for a very long time, before moving on to others it seems. As for why they didn't just install it when they installed WiFi, as well as why they aren't installing power ports as they install the Slimlines on the 320's, is a mystery to me.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2636
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting tmu101 (Reply 58):
Too bad UA doesn't order a few 748s if nothing for nostalgia. I know economics dictate airplane type purchases but one can dream.

I agree .....plus if UA is such a hurry to replace those older 744's

they could probably get 748I's delivered even quicker than 777W's
 
tmu101
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:04 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 65):

And Boeing probably could make them a fairly nice offer, too!
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Topic Author
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:45 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 65):
I agree .....plus if UA is such a hurry to replace those older 744's

they could probably get 748I's delivered even quicker than 777W's
Quoting tmu101 (Reply 66):
And Boeing probably could make them a fairly nice offer, too!

Let's just say, if it did happen, my mind would be blown to bits!

It's not gonna happen, but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash the 748i has come up in some of their meetings.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2636
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:49 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 67):
Let's just say, if it did happen, my mind would be blown to bits!

And if one of those 748's got a retro Saul Bass Tulip paint job,

that might crash this website LOL
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Topic Author
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 68):
And if one of those 748's got a retro Saul Bass Tulip paint job,

that might crash this website LOL

You made my night, Sooner! LOL   

Actually, that doesn't sound bad at all   Hell, The Stars and Bars would look awesome of it! So would the Blue Rising.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
tkukucka
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 12:09 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:02 am

Slighty off topic but was just checking my Mel-Lax flight in april and it says operated by BOEING 777-300 and again on another reservation later on this year. Has united purchased this planes is it someones mistake? will post pic if i can.

[Edited 2015-02-28 21:03:00]
 
United1
Posts: 3906
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 64):
As for why they didn't just install it when they installed WiFi, as well as why they aren't installing power ports as they install the Slimlines on the 320's, is a mystery to me.

Has to do with the length of time that they are able to take the aircraft out of service while still having enough aircraft available to fly their schedule.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 64):
However, would it be a waste? By installing an AVOD system, couldn't they go on to remove and reuse it on new aircraft when the 747 is retired?
As for weight, is that even a factor anymore? On the 788, there is no bulky box under the seat at all. It seems that all the capabilities they could need can be contained within the screen itself nowadays, as we observe with modern tablets.

It would add weight but certainly not as much as the old systems would have....

The biggest question with retrofitting the 744s in my mind is it worth taking the aircraft out of service to run the cabling and install brand new seats as the current ones can not accept today's generation of AVOD systems. Not to mention the cost of the system and seats....

UA is not a dumb company by any stretch of the imagination...they have run the numbers and while I know that there are people on here who love to insert emotion into decisions at the end of the day an airline is a business. If UA runs the numbers and projects that adding AVOD in Y to the 747 will generate X in additional annual revenue (no evidence that AVOD does generate additional revenue but still.) The calculation then becomes is X times the projected lifespan of the aircraft greater than the cost of purchasing, installing, maintaining and flying around additional weight....if the answer is yes then UA installs the system....if the answer is no then UA doesn't. It's simply math...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:50 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 71):
UA is not a dumb company by any stretch of the imagination...they have run the numbers and while I know that there are people on here who love to insert emotion into decisions at the end of the day an airline is a business.

This is why I say:

Quoting S75752 (Reply 64):
Things like this make me wish that search engines like Kayak would have some level of integration with Seatguru, so a customer looking at a low fare could make an informed decision regarding the features a craft will have rather than having to either just assume it will be like previous flights on other craft or having to dig deeply themselves.
That would hold them accountable for it, as they deserve to be.

So then the lack would certainly have business repercussions for UA, as consumers would learn more about what they lack.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3051
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:51 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 65):
Where the system will be more troubled is Transcons. All of the dominant transcon craft lack sufficient power ports in Economy, with the 738 only featuring in E+, and the 752 (Domestic non-PS) and 320 Series (also getting only E+) currently lacking them completely. A laptop will last maybe 3 hours at best while viewing the flash-based streaming page while of course keeping a constant wifi link active.

What's wrong with bringing your own extra battery? lithium Ion backup batteries are available and pretty cheap - then you get to keep them for future use. A must have for going to a place like Disneyland, camping or the beach where power isn't available.

I got several before Christmas for about $7 each and they provide a full iphone charge. larger ones are available for tablet and laptops.
I'm not sure why UA doesn't sell logo lithium ion batteries at the gate, beside the fact that they have been known to rarely explode.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:04 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 64):
Things like this make me wish that search engines like Kayak would have some level of integration with Seatguru, so a customer looking at a low fare could make an informed decision regarding the features a craft will have rather than having to either just assume it will be like previous flights on other craft or having to dig deeply themselves.
That would hold them accountable for it, as they deserve to be.

Wouldn't that require SeatGuru to get their act together and keep their seatmaps up to date? I have long suspected that they weren't and this comment made me look at Seatguru to see what they could tell me about my next flight, which happens to be on a BA A320. It tells me that BA have two seat configurations for A320s, both with 27 rows, and that 30 aircraft are in domestic configuration. You wouldn't want to rely on this.
In fact there are no A320s with 27 rows, they all have at least 28, so exit row positions etc are likely out. There is no permanent domestic configuration, planes can switch between domestic and European shorthaul in their normal turnround time at LHR or LGW. Seatguru spends a lot of time explaining the expanding and contracting seats that had all been removed from the A320 fleet by mid-October last year. In fact there are no less than 4 configurations in the fleet of 61, each of which can operate in domestic (all Y) or European shorthaul (C&Y with middle seats blocked in C) modes.
One aircraft type, one airline. How up to date is the rest of the site?
 
AngMoh
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 63):
The WIFI streaming works better than having seat back PTVs. The resolution on my Ipad is better than anything the airlines could put in the seat backs. I've used it on UA's A320s, my personal experience was that it worked brilliantly

First: have you seen the latest seat back TV's? Panasonic has a 10" HD seat back in Y since at least 2008. Already in use since then by a lot of airlines.

Quoting United1 (Reply 71):
UA is not a dumb company by any stretch of the imagination...they have run the numbers and while I know that there are people on here who love to insert emotion into decisions at the end of the day an airline is a business. If UA runs the numbers and projects that adding AVOD in Y to the 747 will generate X in additional annual revenue (no evidence that AVOD does generate additional revenue but still.) The calculation then becomes is X times the projected lifespan of the aircraft greater than the cost of purchasing, installing, maintaining and flying around additional weight....if the answer is yes then UA installs the system....if the answer is no then UA doesn't. It's simply math...

First we talking about the 744s here...

Wifi is fine for domestic. If it works for JFK-ORD, fine. For long distance is completely sub-par. First on something like SFO-HKG, there are multiple problems.
* Keeping an iPad on your lap for 8 hours (watching 4 movies) is exceptionally uncomfortable - it is an ergonomic nightmare.
* You still need the power for every seat so there is still a significant weight gain.
* If I travel with a family of 4, do you expect me to invest $2000 for 4 iPads so that I can save $400 on the tickets? Sorry - CX and SQ: here is my money.
* If I expect what is about the bare minimum for such a 12hr route which is 6" low resolution AVOD, and I get nothing at all you think I ever fly with you again even when you have invested in a better product?

EK sees a very strong business case for AVOD for the retention of existing customers. It is very expensive to gain new customers while retaining existing customers is relatively cheap.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 742 743 744 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 73):

What's wrong with bringing your own extra battery? lithium Ion backup batteries are available and pretty cheap - then you get to keep them for future use. A must have for going to a place like Disneyland, camping or the beach where power isn't available.

For any mobile device this is a must have already. I have a Mophie Juice Pack for iPhone and I swear by it!

However, for Laptops and depending on the type, tablets this is a much different situation.
For PC laptops this will vary a lot. Some may have the battery dock stations, some may have secondary detachable batteries, but those seem to be becoming fewer and farther between. Most will not have either option.
Some may have batteries that you could simply swap out, but those seem to be becoming much rarer too. On macs these are already nonexistant. (On macs, you are also offered no choice whatsoever, as Apple does not license the plug for third parties to create charging accessories.)

Even then, it's very questionnable if a secondary battery will even help any device through even a Transcon while streaming video playback and maintaining a wifi link.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 75):

First: have you seen the latest seat back TV's? Panasonic has a 10" HD seat back in Y since at least 2008. Already in use since then by a lot of airlines.

UA uses smaller PTV's, I'm not sure the exact inch measure but they're about small-average I'd estimate. Some of them on some 787's and I think the 764's are newer capacitive touchscreen models, while all others (and most of the 788's) have older style resistive touchscreens.

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 74):

One aircraft type, one airline. How up to date is the rest of the site?

The UA page appears to be pretty much up to date. I'm not sure about other ones, but I'll compare them.
Of course, even an Airlines own site can be a bit cryptic or outdated about their own fleet at times.

It's far better than nothing, though.
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 4047
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:13 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 75):
If I travel with a family of 4, do you expect me to invest $2000 for 4 iPads so that I can save $400 on the tickets? Sorry - CX and SQ: here is my money

Many people already have them. Many more are contemplating to buy them, which might change the equation.

And, unlike AVOD, you don't have to leave them behind in the plane for the next user 
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 77):

Many people already have them. Many more are contemplating to buy them, which might change the equation.

Problem is with Wifi and video playback a tablet is not going to last full a whole longhaul flight. It might last a transcon with a battery pack, like the Mophie, but still not a long haul. Power ports remedies the situation.
 
AngMoh
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 76):

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 75):

First: have you seen the latest seat back TV's? Panasonic has a 10" HD seat back in Y since at least 2008. Already in use since then by a lot of airlines.

UA uses smaller PTV's, I'm not sure the exact inch measure but they're about small-average I'd estimate. Some of them on some 787's and I think the 764's are newer capacitive touchscreen models, while all others (and most of the 788's) have older style resistive touchscreens.

You original statement was the following: The resolution on my Ipad is better than anything the airlines could put in the seat backs.? It was not "iPads have a better resolution than anything UA will ever put on their aircraft". Please be consistent.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 77):

Many people already have them. Many more are contemplating to buy them, which might change the equation.

And, unlike AVOD, you don't have to leave them behind in the plane for the next user 

Unlike iPads, with AVOD I don't have to carry another piece of gear halfway across the planet...   
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 742 743 744 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 4047
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 78):
Power ports remedies the situation.

That would be essential!

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 79):
Unlike iPads, with AVOD I don't have to carry another piece of gear halfway across the planet.

Most won't leave the home anyway. Might as well make use of them in flight!   
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14505
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:53 pm

I would presume beyond the mx costs, the fuel burn of these latest 777's is far less than the 747's yet still offer for most of the year almost all the numbers of seats and cargo capacity the 747's. Combining the lower fuel burn and mx costs along with higher load factor %'s may in the long term be a much better deal than retaining the 747's much longer.
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 79):
You original statement was the following: The resolution on my Ipad is better than anything the airlines could put in the seat backs.? It was not "iPads have a better resolution than anything UA will ever put on their aircraft". Please be consistent.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 63):
The WIFI streaming works better than having seat back PTVs. The resolution on my Ipad is better than anything the airlines could put in the seat backs. I've used it on UA's A320s, my personal experience was that it worked brilliantly.

My name can be confused with his, yeah. I was pointing out that any AVOD that UA in particular would be likely to use, based on what they have, would be quite small and not very good resolution, certainly not the beautiful 10" Panasonics.

What are some airlines using those in Y though? I'm very curious to know, as that sounds kinda awesome.
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 3353
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 23):
Mechanic's contract and there are STILL separated agreements where either the UA Mechanics work on the airplane or the CO Mechanics work on it.Since the CO side has NO 744 Experience it was wiser to restrict it to the UA mechanic group at SFO where we have crews dedicated TO the 744 and the 777.

That is only true in certain MX stations. We work on sCAL sUAL aircraft seamlessly in many MX stations, all of them on the sCAL side where there is only sCAL Techs. It is in stations where there are both sub workgroups that it becomes divided. The ramp in MCO was another example. sCAL had DGS working the ramp, and sUAL had sUAL employees working their ramp. Now both are mixed together, IIRC it is all dependent on which hub the aircraft comes from, and or which hub the aircraft flies to. Believe it has changed a bit now, but if the hub was a sCAL one, DGS worked the flight, if it was a sUAL hub, UAL ramp worked it. June 1st it should all be United ramp. In Denver, the two TechOps work groups supposedly work in a similar fashion, seperately. Would have to check with some of the guys up there.

Many of us received differences training and were grandfathered for the 767-300s, 757-200s and 777s of sUAL. Do not know if difference training was given to any sCAL Techs who had 747 AW Authority. And do believe the sUAL Techs were grandfathered for sCAL 777s, 767s and 757s after difference training. The Airbus needed training for sCAL folks. Would have to check with the sUAL guys, but if they might have been grandfathered with just differences training, if they had or retained their 737 AW Release Authority.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 37):
I beg to differ, If the S CO mechanics are working the airplane the SUA mechanics cannot assist them without violating their CBA.

Well, SFO, and the other bigger MX bases where the heavy checks work, they have not been combined. Soon as the next contract is ratified, the two workgroups will be able to be intermixed.

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 38):
The A300 is nothing like the A320

Actually, some of the system architecture is quite similar. Yes, one is a widebody and the other is a narrowbody, but one can see the similarities between the two, speaking from working both over the years. Plus the 'French' influence in Airbus design. They did some things very different then Boeing does. Airbus long ago decided to automate and put the latest technology in their aircraft. These electric jets can be a pain though. The 787 is very much a electric jet. Remote circuit breakers that can be turned off from the flight deck are pretty interesting. No physical circuit breakers in the flight deck. Imagine.

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 38):
Like I said, there are no restriction on who can work on what. Fleets have no fences. Nothing in the context of what I wrote had anything to do with working together.

   Maybe he is talking about situations like that in Denver, where the two TechOps workgroups are separated by a hallway. Parts for the aircraft are still separate too.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 43):
Counting on oil prices to stay this low isn't a good business strategy. UA either needs to step up the ISP/Streaming WiFi completion and suck up the overhaul costs on the 744 or order the 77W.My suspicion is that UA is finalizing the details with Boeing before making it official. They'll then rotate out 744s as the next big checks come due and bridge with 789s or 77Es until the 77Ws arrive.

First 747 is scheduled for retirement later this year. But that could always change either way. Some of the 767-300s were given a new lease on life in the fleet. These type of negotiations are probably still going on, and should hear a announcement about any 777-300s one way or another soon. These things take time, decisions are not made quickly just to satisfy the internet.
You are here.
 
User avatar
thebatman
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:15 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 83):
Would have to check with the sUAL guys, but if they might have been grandfathered with just differences training, if they had or retained their 737 AW Release Authority.

Nope, we had to start all over. Having previous AWR for the 737-3/5 did absolutely nothing for us. We were only grandfathered for the 757, 767 and 777.
Aircraft mechanics - because pilots need heroes too!
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 3353
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting thebatman (Reply 84):
Nope, we had to start all over. Having previous AWR for the 737-3/5 did absolutely nothing for us. We were only grandfathered for the 757, 767 and 777.

Now looking back, IIRC back in the 90s, we had 6 weeks of NextGen training for AWR. Full course, think those with 737-300 AWR did get to go first though.

Hello thebatman, liking the fine weather up there ? Ground stops and cancellations are hitting it down here. Weather is upper 70s with occasional; showers, passengers asking why they are delayed for weather when it is so nice in Florida.
You are here.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 22329
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 75):
Sorry - CX and SQ: here is my money.

Which is of course the right answer - if you like their amenities well enough to matter to you, you should vote with your feet.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
United1
Posts: 3906
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 75):
First we talking about the 744s here...

We are also talking about an aircraft that UA plans on retiring relatively soon (a couple are leaving the fleet this year) again it comes down to what is the ROI? The standard UA is moving to on new and retrofitted long haul international aircraft seems to be WiFi, power ports and AVOD at every seat....what UA doesn't seem to find as an appropriate capital outlay, and I agree with this, is retrofitting the 747s in Y beyond what they have already done at this point.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 82):
My name can be confused with his, yeah. I was pointing out that any AVOD that UA in particular would be likely to use, based on what they have, would be quite small and not very good resolution, certainly not the beautiful 10" Panasonics.

I'd don't know if UAs systems are all that bad of quality...all are made by Panasonic by the way as is the streaming WiFi system. 767 2-Cabin and P.S aircraft for instance have Panasonic Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors in Y...which are actually fairly high quality.

That being said your tablet will almost certainly have a better resolution....
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
VS11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:28 am

If United needed some short-term B744 replacement, wouldn't it make more sense to lease the aircraft?
 
S75752
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 87):
767 2-Cabin and P.S aircraft for instance have Panasonic Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors in Y...which are actually fairly high quality.

Upon looking that up, those appear to be the newer Capacitive touch screen ptv's that I mentioned for some 788's and the 764's. I didn't know anything else had them.

I'm curious why some 788's have those newer ones, while other 788's have the older system. Were the 764's and 757PS retrofitted sometime along the lines in the middle of the 788 delivery?

Those capacitive ones are so much nicer, since they're responsive without having to poke the living hell out of the screen and the passenger in front of yous seat.

[Edited 2015-03-01 17:16:46]
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:22 am

Quoting VS11 (Reply 88):
If United needed some short-term B744 replacement, wouldn't it make more sense to lease the aircraft?

Strangely enough, that is what I was thinking. Lease the 77W's for 10-12 years via something that Boeing arranges and agree to take 10 777-8/9's as replacements.
 
United1
Posts: 3906
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 89):
I'm curious why some 788's have those newer ones, while other 788's have the older system. Were the 764's and 757PS retrofitted sometime along the lines in the middle of the 788 delivery?
PS and the 764/763 2-Cabin were retrofitted before the 788 delivery....I don't know the entire story but there is a very long lead time for seats in general and it would not surprise me if the 788 seats were delivered on-time and stored in a warehouse for a few years until Boeing was able to deliver the 787.

All the 789s have the Eco 9i monitors....I'm not sure if the later build 788s have them or if they were all delivered with the older style screen.

[Edited 2015-03-01 17:52:46]

Edit of my Edit: I did some checking and the last few 788s do have the new monitors.


[Edited 2015-03-01 17:56:03]
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Topic Author
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:31 am

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 90):
Strangely enough, that is what I was thinking. Lease the 77W's for 10-12 years via something that Boeing arranges and agree to take 10 777-8/9's as replacements.
Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 40):
Out of curiosity, how would an order of 10x 777-300ERs and 10x 777-9s fair with UA?

I was thinking something similar.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 1):
They know the economics down the last detail.

The economics say this carrier is very comfortable settling into third place.   
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 22329
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:49 am

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 93):
The economics say this carrier is very comfortable settling into third place.


      
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
UA444
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 94):

Third place? I think they're aiming even lower than that. Definitely trying to give Norwegian a run for thier money.
 
VS11
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 95):
Third place? I think they're aiming even lower than that. Definitely trying to give Norwegian a run for thier money.

Wow, glowing remarks for United!   But Norwegian are flying brand new B787s so not sure who is the winner here: UA B744s or Norwegian's B787s  
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:03 am

UA--if it orders the 77W--will do it because they can get the plane a lot faster than the A35J, which won't be available until at minimum 2018-2019 time frame. UA's 744 fleet is rapidly aging, and they need a replacement very soon so UA can retire their oldest 744's.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 63):
I don't think you have your information correct on this, why would they go back and install PTVs in the Hawaii 777s? They could of done that already, this is about the A model 777s currently in 3 class International configuration. They're going to be reconfigured with a more leisure destination in mind, such as Rome.

Lots of discussion here with insiders speculating the new HD version of the 777. Hawaii versions expected to be included as well as a few "A" models. Code will be 77G and it will be 28J/98E+/238Y for a total of 364 seats.:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-high-density-777-subfleet-10.html

It certainly seems like they are moving to this configuration instead of the 773 which is more or less a rumor at this point.

[Edited 2015-03-02 10:47:30]
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
User avatar
rotating14
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:54 pm

RE: Does UA Necessarily Need The 777-300ER?

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:27 pm

http://m.seekingalpha.com/news/2341996

No "immediate" need for the 777x but is veryI interested in the 77W for lift demands. No mention of 744 maintenance issues.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos