BestWestern
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CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:25 pm

I have it on good authority that the transfer baggage system in CDG2 has ground to a halt. Again.

I understand that some flights yesterday went out with ten bags for the entire flight, and that bags, 36 hours later are not yet scanned as arrived into CDG - still sitting in containers.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

As a regular and loyal AF passenger, the CDG (2E / 2F) experience is great, but baggage really struggles.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
icarus75
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:10 pm

On AF website, the system was not working yesterday, 27/02', until 0100pm. They are saying nothing for today.
Flying is amazing!
 
goldorak
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:31 pm

It just lasted for the morning yesterday. OK a great inconvenience for the pax who did not have their bags yesterday but this kind of things happen. You said "again" as if it was happening all the time. I remember it happened once last year or 2 years ago but that's it and this is happening form time to time in every airport having this kind of complex system. No big deal IMO.
 
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OA260
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:40 pm

The figure of 8,000 to 10,000 of mishandled bags was reported.
 
BestWestern
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 2):
You said "again" as if it was happening all the time.

On four out of my five last HKG / PEK CDG Europe flight connections the bags did not make the same flight as I did. Thee was no weather issues on these flights, I get priority baggage as an AF Platinum flying business class, and my flight connections are long enough to have a shower and breakfast in the lounge. AF punctuality to and from HKG is excellent, with flights usually arriving early into CDG.

Quoting icarus75 (Reply 1):
On AF website, the system was not working yesterday, 27/02', until 0100pm. They are saying nothing for today.

The bags still have not shown up on the AF tracking system. "TRACING CONTINUES. PLEASE CHECK BACK LATER"

Quoting goldorak (Reply 2):
No big deal IMO.

Well AF gave three of my colleagues permission to spend 100 each, and fourth 200 as she needed a baby stroller.

That by say 5,000 bags is half a million compensation, plus transport costs for the bags, so yes - a big deal.


And by shocking bad luck, these exact same four people were delayed by 36 hours by the strike last September so are unlikely to fly AF again.





Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
The figure of 8,000 to 10,000 of mishandled bags was reported.

Sounds low. The first (90% full) AF Dublin flight yesterday morning arrived with ten bags, prob 70 bags missing alone on that flight. Multiply that by all the connecting passengers on a morning AF flight wave. AF have 1,500 flights a day lets say 200 departing CDG before 1pm daily x 70 is 14,000.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
BestWestern
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:21 pm

The AF website has an update,

Three things to notice:

It took them four hours to get any bags moving
Entire flights left without bags
Baggage will take 'several days' to reach final destination - so lets see how long it takes to deliver these 'priority' tagged bags.

https://www.airfrance.com.hk/HK/en/local/information/news/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm


Update on February 27 at 07h30 PM local time in Paris

This Friday February27, between 05h00 am and 13:00 pm , Paris local time, a baggage sorter breakdown occurred and impacted baggage treatment from Paris Charles de Gaulle airport in Terminal 2E and 2F as well as a part of luggage connecting via these two terminals.

Many Air France flights left as luggage checked could not be loaded on board.

Aéroports de Paris teams have been mobilised all morning long and implemented, as from09:00am, a technical solution which allowed partial handling.

All Air France teams are doing their utmost and exceptional measures are on- going to forward baggage as soon as possible.

But, as many missed luggage are still waiting in Paris Charles de Gaulle, several days are expected to send all luggage to their final destination.

If your luggage is missing at your arrival, you can post your claim via Air France web site.
As from Monday, March02, you will be also able to consult your file on our site.

We thank you for your undestanding.

[Edited 2015-02-28 06:22:23]
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
AF185
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
On four out of my five last HKG / PEK CDG Europe flight connections the bags did not make the same flight as I did.

Really unfortunate and annoying when that happens.
I fly through CDG 2E/2F from HKG 5-6 times a year and have never experienced any delayed baggage delivery. Overall the system works well. Hope this is the last time for you!
 
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OA260
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
Sounds low. The first (90% full) AF Dublin flight yesterday morning arrived with ten bags, prob 70 bags missing alone on that flight. Multiply that by all the connecting passengers on a morning AF flight wave. AF have 1,500 flights a day lets say 200 departing CDG before 1pm daily x 70 is 14,000.

Well its low season so I guess not every flight would have been at that load and also plenty HBO's so that might reduce those figures.
 
BestWestern
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting AF185 (Reply 6):
I fly through CDG 2E/2F from HKG 5-6 times a year and have never experienced any delayed baggage delivery. Overall the system works well. Hope this is the last time for you!

I think part of the issue is that for a long while the Dublin flight boarded from a remote gate about 10 minutes bus journey from the terminal. Since they moved the flight back into the Satellite building, the baggage problem has improved - i.e the last flight with baggage i did made the connection.

I've moved to only hand luggage when possible on AF.

Strangely - returning back to Asia was never a problem - bags always made the connection without fail.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 6):
Overall the system works well. Hope this is the last time for you!

I love the AF service and CDG 2E/F. Their lounges are great, transfer a dream, on-board service is good, food edible, punctuality better than others, the A380 is fantastic, the Business class seat is ok, premium economy, and its over eight years since I was caught by a cancellation, strike or major delay with AF. I've made it to platinum for life (although three more years to wait for the card) from being loyal to AF KL.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1954
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:17 pm

I'm not familiar with the AF luggage system at CDG, but could someone explain to me why they could not just manually route and put the bags where they needed to go. I understand bags still would have missed because they don't have that many spare ramp agents, but it seems like they could have cut it down.
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goldorak
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
On four out of my five last HKG / PEK CDG Europe flight connections the bags did not make the same flight as I did. Thee was no weather issues on these flights

This is rather unfortunate, but this is not related to a total failure of the CDG bag handling system like the one that happened yesterday. Thousands of bags are not delivered to their owners every day in the world due to other causes (human error, tight connection, no more tag on the bag, bag that has fallen from the belt or transport system, etc etc)

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
The bags still have not shown up on the AF tracking system. "TRACING CONTINUES. PLEASE CHECK BACK LATER"

This is totally normal knowing the numbers of bags delayed. It will take days before all bags are tracked.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
Well AF gave three of my colleagues permission to spend 100 each, and fourth 200 as she needed a baby stroller. That by say 5,000 bags is half a million compensation, plus transport costs for the bags, so yes - a big deal.

Of course for AF, it is something important. But we are not talking here about a total collapse of CDG systems for a week or so. We are talking here about half a day. That's not the end of the world !

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 9):
I'm not familiar with the AF luggage system at CDG, but could someone explain to me why they could not just manually route and put the bags where they needed to go. I understand bags still would have missed because they don't have that many spare ramp agents, but it seems like they could have cut it down.

Do you realize that we are not talking here about a provincial airport with a bunch of regional flights to handle. We are talking here about the hub of one of the biggest airline in the world and one of the biggest airport (among the 10th busiest airports). So this is representing a huge number of pax/bags. It's impossible to handle that manually (explaining why such airports have such complex systems to handle bags).
 
alasizon
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 10):
Do you realize that we are not talking here about a provincial airport with a bunch of regional flights to handle. We are talking here about the hub of one of the biggest airline in the world and one of the biggest airport (among the 10th busiest airports). So this is representing a huge number of pax/bags. It's impossible to handle that manually (explaining why such airports have such complex systems to handle bags).

I certainly do realize that, I just am curious why some of the baggage could not be sorted manually. I personally can sort through about 1,000 bags an hour so I am sure that the amount of missed bags could have been cut down substantially.

Now I can understand it if the ramp agents were unable to access the bags but I would think that even if the technical part of the system isn't functioning, the mechanical belt portion would still be and that they should be able to retrieve the bags and manually sort them. Now if that is what they did and the remaining bags that did not make it were stuck of what not, I could understand.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
BestWestern
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 10):
This is rather unfortunate, but this is not related to a total failure of the CDG bag handling system like the one that happened yesterday. Thousands of bags are not delivered to their owners every day in the world due to other causes (human error, tight connection, no more tag on the bag, bag that has fallen from the belt or transport system, etc etc)

From a passenger perspective, bags not arriving four times out of five points to a systematic failure of baggage handling at the airport.

Quoting goldorak (Reply 10):
This is totally normal knowing the numbers of bags delayed. It will take days before all bags are tracked.

Which points to a failure of baggage handling by Air France / ADP. 48 hours later, and still no update. Not even an automated apology email or update from the airline. Worldtracer is has no idea where the bags are.

I do realise that at say 10,000 bags, each having to be re-tagged to final destination, is a mamoth task - at two minutes per bag, is two days work for 10 people.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
rta
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:36 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 12):
I certainly do realize that, I just am curious why some of the baggage could not be sorted manually. I personally can sort through about 1,000 bags an hour so I am sure that the amount of missed bags could have been cut down substantially.

Now I can understand it if the ramp agents were unable to access the bags but I would think that even if the technical part of the system isn't functioning, the mechanical belt portion would still be and that they should be able to retrieve the bags and manually sort them. Now if that is what they did and the remaining bags that did not make it were stuck of what not, I could understand.

I'm sure there is a good reason for why they didn't do it. Perhaps the bags couldn't be properly inventoried or something.
 
TYCOON
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:56 am

Must be a very frustrating experience both for AF and the passengers. I have had delayed luggage - but never completely lost- more times than I care to count.
The worst offenders in my experience are BA, Swiss and Turkish. Turkish is by far the worst: with not very effective baggage tracking systems or Customer care service. My luggage took me 5 days to get to Beijing on TK, and they never provided my so much as an overnight kit, let alone reimburse me the cost of having to buy clothes locally. Really the worst.
 
76er
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:25 am

Excuse my ignorance in this matter, but why is there no backup system? Airplanes have multiple redundancies built in, and uninterrupted baggage sorting should be essential at major hubs imho. Are there airports that actually have a secondary system in place in case something like this happens?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 11):
Quoting goldorak (Reply 10):
Do you realize that we are not talking here about a provincial airport with a bunch of regional flights to handle. We are talking here about the hub of one of the biggest airline in the world and one of the biggest airport (among the 10th busiest airports). So this is representing a huge number of pax/bags. It's impossible to handle that manually (explaining why such airports have such complex systems to handle bags).

I certainly do realize that, I just am curious why some of the baggage could not be sorted manually. I personally can sort through about 1,000 bags an hour so I am sure that the amount of missed bags could have been cut down substantially.

Are you Superman ? I doubt you could pick up 1000 bags, read the label and carry them to the appropriate loading area in a week, let alone an hour. The automated system reads the label on the incoming bag, sends it along the conveyor system and sends it down the chute to the loading area for the appropriate flight, how many flights will that be each hour let alone day ? The baggage halls beneath major airport terminals are as large as the public concourses. How many bags could you carry the length of an airport terminal in an hour ?
 
a380787
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:28 am

Leaving CDG today ... I'm glad I'm flying AA 121 instead of AirFrance
 
ozglobal
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:36 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):

Quoting goldorak (Reply 2):
You said "again" as if it was happening all the time.

On four out of my five last HKG / PEK CDG Europe flight connections the bags did not make the same flight as I did. Thee was no weather issues on these flights, I get priority baggage as an AF Platinum flying business class, and my flight connections are long enough to have a shower and breakfast in the lounge. AF punctuality to and from HKG is excellent, with flights usually arriving early into CDG.

Quoting icarus75 (Reply 1):
On AF website, the system was not working yesterday, 27/02', until 0100pm. They are saying nothing for today.

The bags still have not shown up on the AF tracking system. "TRACING CONTINUES. PLEASE CHECK BACK LATER"

This may not be about a break down of the equipment, but a structural and systematic failure of the service in support of long haul to short haul transfers. Why do I suggest this? Because I have exactly the same problem when I travel SYD or MEL - LHR-CDG on QF and BA. The bags NEVER make the LHR T3-T5 transfer no matter HOW LONG the transfer is at LHR. Usually they deliver my bag by courier the same evening in Paris (10 times!), but it's a royal hassle each time. On the forward journey my record is 11 days without my luggage over christmas with the christmas presents all in the luggage. Result: I never take checked luggage anymore on that route and am a very efficient packer of my cabin bag for 2 weeks in Oz.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
ozglobal
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:38 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 17):
Leaving CDG today ... I'm glad I'm flying AA 121 instead of AirFrance

How does that help you with airport's (not AF's) baggage system?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 19):

Nothing ... Just that I'm glad I'm not flying AF
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14003
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RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:44 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 19):
How does that help you with airport's (not AF's) baggage system?

AA's in 2A. I don't believe the baggage system in 2A failed.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
alasizon
Posts: 1954
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 16):

I stated I could sort said bags, if I also had to run them, that certainly cuts down on what can be done. I have done roughly 1200/hr a few times in PHX after a monsoon wrecked havoc on our operations. Reading tags really is not that hard and so long as you have a plan you'll be good. Running the bags would require a tug and bag carts and usually a bag cart can hold 50-60 bags so with four carts you can take 200-240 bags.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: CDG Baggage System Falls Over - Again

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 22):
I stated I could sort said bags, if I also had to run them, that certainly cuts down on what can be done. I have done roughly 1200/hr a few times in PHX after a monsoon wrecked havoc on our operations. Reading tags really is not that hard and so long as you have a plan you'll be good. Running the bags would require a tug and bag carts and usually a bag cart can hold 50-60 bags so with four carts you can take 200-240 bags.

Just reading the tags isn't a lot of help in the circumstances, its the physical part of getting the bag to the right bin that takes the time. I doubt they would have the physical space to line up lots of tugs and carts in the baggage area with it having been designed for automatic sorting.

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