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LAXintl
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United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:12 am

Effective July 2nd for 6-weeks, United will utilize its premium 757 p.s. product on service between LAX and BOS.

Per internal note, due to revised maintenance scheduling requirements, the carrier had excess 757 p.s. capacity and saw the short term deployment to Boston as a profitable opportunity.

Flights are loaded in GDS already;

UA528 LAX-BOS 0830-1701
UA717 BOS-LAX 1800-2111

=

Suppose a good way to test the water and see if Boston can support such service on a ongoing basis.
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STT757
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Suppose a good way to test the water and see if Boston can support such service on a ongoing basis.

Ha, beat B6 to it.
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DDR
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:26 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

That was kind of what I was thinking.

In the 70's UA was the true Trans Con king. I miss the Friendly Skies.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:30 am

If this is a test to see if BOS can support this service I hope it all goes well and p.s service can be permanently added to the BOS-LAX/SFO routes so UA can remove all 737's and A320/19's off these routes.

If the test proves to be a success would UA keep a few more sUA 757's gut the cabins and completely refurbish them to p.s. standards or would UA place a sCO 757 on the route? Secondly if UA were to place a sCO 757 on the route would they leave the configuration as is with 16/153 or would they reconfigure a few sCO 757's to the p.s. seating configuration that has 28/114?
 
MVAair
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:34 am

There is no serious high yield demand in this market. They are putting it here because it is better than parking the plane
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:53 am

Before the PS 767s, United was using 3 class 767s between BOS and SFO/LAX. after 9/11 the route was not really sustainable with three class 767s but it might work with the current strong economy.
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:55 am

Why wouldn't they test the water with BOS-SFO instead?
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 6):
Why wouldn't they test the water with BOS-SFO instead?

Good question,

They are already the #1 carrier in that market. What PS does it is shifts high yield revenue from the market leader to United. But if youre the market leader, there is no benefit to PS.

Why dont they use PS on IAD-LAX/SFO? Same reason. There would be no revenue benefit. Only a higher CASM
 
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STT757
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting jayunited (Reply 3):
If the test proves to be a success would UA keep a few more sUA 757's gut the cabins and completely refurbish them to p.s. standards or would UA place a sCO 757 on the route?

There's not many left,

Quoting jayunited (Reply 3):
Secondly if UA were to place a sCO 757 on the route would they leave the configuration as is with 16/153 or would they reconfigure a few sCO 757's to the p.s. seating configuration that has 28/114?

I would think an option could be to up the premium seating on a couple of sCO 757s, if this experiment doesn't work they could always send them on Trans-Atlantic.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 6):
Why wouldn't they test the water with BOS-SFO instead?

BOS-LAX is only one or two daily for UA, BOS-SFO would require more aircraft to keep the product consistent.
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Ha, beat B6 to it.

Bummer! I would love to see MINT LAX-BOS. I would pay to try it out.   
I'll let people know about this as I know a few people flying LAX-BOS during that time frame and some would enjoy PS.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 6):
Why wouldn't they test the water with BOS-SFO instead?

I wondered that too...

Quoting MVAair (Reply 7):
They are already the #1 carrier in that market. What PS does it is shifts high yield revenue from the market leader to United. But if youre the market leader, there is no benefit to PS.

There is the benefit of collecting premium revenue and creating a flight many consider worth paying for. I read your answer, but I think there is still a market opportunity for either PS or mint SFO-BOS (greater demand than LAX-BOS IMHO unscientific opinion).

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boilerla
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:04 am

I would have expected SFO-DCA instead, but perhaps that gets more connections than O&D.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:04 am

It's only one of the two daily frequencies between BOS and LAX, the other being an A320.
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catiii
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

Watch this space...
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:25 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):

There is the benefit of collecting premium revenue and creating a flight many consider worth paying for. I read your answer, but I think there is still a market opportunity for either PS or mint SFO-BOS (greater demand than LAX-BOS IMHO unscientific opinion).

That revenue is already traveling on United. There might be more premium revenue on BOS-SFO, there probably is. But it already travels on UA. So PS does nothing to increase revenue further to offset the higher costs.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:38 am

Quoting MVAair (Reply 4):
There is no serious high yield demand in this market.

What? Really?

Quoting MVAair (Reply 13):
There might be more premium revenue on BOS-SFO, there probably is. But it already travels on UA. So PS does nothing to increase revenue further to offset the higher costs.

If anything, I think B6 just about consumes the grand majority of it not only from SFO but from SJC and OAK as well, as some very serious competition that might just snatch away most of the possibility.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:43 am

Quoting DDR (Reply 2):
I miss the Friendly Skies.

I miss "Working Hard and Flying Right."

......I'm sorry, I had to let that one out!   

Back to being serious. I was going to start a thread with this question, but I'll ask it here, seeing as it's not too much off topic, but what does UA plan on using for P.S. service, post 757 retirement?
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CONTACREW
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:50 am

It's going to be a PS bird 28J/114Y and service will be treated as a normal domestic flight as far as service and upgrades go.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:54 am

I would think the premium cash paying demand is much larger to LAX than SFO. They need somewhere to use this plane. I would think this is testing the waters, and a chance to make some money. Let see how it goes. I would love to see PS to LAX, the route is so competitive this gives them some competitive advantage.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:02 am

Are these the RR or PW powered ones?
 
MVAair
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):

I would think the premium cash paying demand is much larger to LAX than SFO.

What is the connection between BOS and LAX that would generate premium traffic? SFO has finance and high tech as does BOS. That said, UA is getting most of the premium traffic. LAX might have a little bit but not much

Quoting S75752 (Reply 14):
If anything, I think B6 just about consumes the grand majority of it not only from SFO but from SJC and OAK as well, as some very serious competition that might just snatch away most of the possibility.

No way. With what premium product? Plus at the SFO end, UA drives a good yield premium. VX probably does ok also
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 15):

It was Work Hard, Fly Right.

Quoting MVAair (Reply 19):

With their Mint product whic, if launched from BOS, will blow P.S. out of the market.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:29 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 20):
It was Work Hard, Fly Right.

It was indeed. I was just making it a joke  
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:10 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 10):

I still think that is not entirely out of the question. Until I looked just now and saw a 738 on some days, I thought it was still on 73G's. I think if they were trying to cram everyone they could on the flight, they'd have made it a domestic 757 already (I realize those are being phased out but this is the perfect case for where a 757 shines -- short runway, need for +/- 200 pax at transcon range).

Just seems logical to me that you would want to try and cream the market as best you could, which PS service (or at least using a vanilla TATL 757 with premium service onboard) would do better than regular ol' domestic birds. Pure guesswork, and totally dependent on UA's fleet availability, but I would have to think you could fill the 28-odd premium seats once a day to SFO based on combined O&D and onward Asia connections.

All this being said, I will of course grant the counter argument that perhaps UA and the other airlines know people who want to fly out of DCA n/s will pay up regardless and so they have no incentive to offer premium product. But hey we can dream!
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 16):
It's going to be a PS bird 28J/114Y and service will be treated as a normal domestic flight as far as service and upgrades go.

If service is going to be a normal domestic flight (ie not the service levels of a ps flight) then this is not testing the waters. This is simply a 6-week long equipment sub due to aircraft availability.

Basically in order for UA to deploy ps on any route, the revenue from the J cabin has to make up for the 54 fewer Y seats. That's a lot of money, and without seeing the facts, I tend to think the money just isn't there. Additionally, BOS-LAX/SFO are not "visibility" routes like they are out of JFK, where you have to have a premium product or else you're toast.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting MVAair (Reply 19):
What is the connection between BOS and LAX that would generate premium traffic? SFO has finance and high tech as does BOS. That said, UA is getting most of the premium traffic. LAX might have a little bit but not much

The tech industry is very stingy on domestic plane tickets in 2015. You are not going to see much demand of them paying business class.

I was just thinking the rich people or SAG contract demand would be higher to LAX. I always hear of actors on LAX-BOS flights, BOS is a great city for filming and theres always a lot going on there. Just a shot in the dark, feels to me like LAX would have more premium demand, but who knows
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 20):
With their Mint product whic, if launched from BOS, will blow P.S. out of the market.

How is Mint different from P.S.?
 
Ronaldo747
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:04 am

Any date when United will replace those 757s with 739ER?
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:09 am

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 26):
Any date when United will replace those 757s with 739ER?

The day the headwinds disappear!
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:31 am

It's a smart solution ... UA is weak on LAX-BOS market share and wallet share so placing p.s. (Even as a test) is a good way to improve their position

SFO-BOS or LAX-IAD are very strongly UA already so they have little incentive to offer p.s.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:55 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 27):
The day the headwinds disappear!

hehe, but transcon should be always doable for the 739ER in PS config, year round.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 24):

What you read about is actors on vacation. Not traveling under SAG contract. I checked SFO commands a 10-15% higher fare. Of course it is also further than LAX is. The market leader for fares in both markets is VX. UA is second in SFO but has 50% of the traffic. In LAX UA is in dead last behind leader VX, AA and B6.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 19):
What is the connection between BOS and LAX that would generate premium traffic?

Technology. In case you haven't noticed, movies require a lot of technology. That's one. Boston is also a significant media market so we get a lot of celebrities flying here for interviews and promotional appearances. The thing is a lof of this "promotional" traffic usually flows via NYC.
 
MVAair
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 31):
Technology. In case you haven't noticed, movies require a lot of technology. That's one. Boston is also a significant media market so we get a lot of celebrities flying here for interviews and promotional appearances. The thing is a lof of this "promotional" traffic usually flows via NYC.

SFO fares are above LAX from BOS. BOS does not generate enough entertainment industry traffic to result in any significant volume on a daily basis day in and day out 365 days per year. BOS is no where near the top of film and tv production. LA is first, NYC is second and ATL and MSY are tied for third. Even Chicago isnt close and they are miles ahead of BOS.

There is a stronger link between BOS and SFO than between BOS and LAX. It is finance and technology. Why is that so hard for people to believe? But the reason UA doesnt put PS on SFO is because they are already the revenue leader by far. PS doesnt shift revenue towards them.
 
Abeam79
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:55 pm

B6 will introduce Mint for Bos-LAX/SFO later this year definitely by '16 per a recent internal info gathering. Stay tuned..Mint is doing great for B6 on JFK-LAX/SFO
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:24 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 18):

757-222s, PMUA PW engine 757. None of the ex-CO 757s fly ps routes, some subbed a few years ago.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:46 pm

If the market responds favorably to the P.S. service, maybe, just maybe UA might re-consider the retirement of some PW 757s that aren't headed to FedEx.
 
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fxramper
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:49 pm

Doesn't make sense to me. Why not use the frames on EWR-LAX?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Ha, beat B6 to it.

I'd use B6 Mint over UA PS any day of the week.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:21 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 35):
If the market responds favorably to the P.S. service, maybe, just maybe UA might re-consider the retirement of some PW 757s that aren't headed to FedEx.

It is being said that flying will increase this summer, aircraft utilization will go up. Some changes in MCO happening to keep the airplanes flying all summer.
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lightsaber
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:23 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 13):
That revenue is already traveling on United. There might be more premium revenue on BOS-SFO, there probably is. But it already travels on UA. So PS does nothing to increase revenue further to offset the higher costs.

Except those I know traveling are having to find alternatives. It seems UA is not offering enough direct seats. Now, this might be during peak periods, but I see the market demand *not* being met and thus:

UA hasn't met the growth in the economy with a corresponding growth in premium seats. I understand your premise that UA already has the traffic. I disagree on the traffic demand being met on peak days. On say a Tuesday or Wednesady... sure. But not on peak travel days.

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 33):

B6 will introduce Mint for Bos-LAX/SFO later this year definitely by '16 per a recent internal info gathering. Stay tuned..Mint is doing great for B6 on JFK-LAX/SFO

This is great news. I wonder if SFO or LAX will be first. I'm personally surprised to not see more JFK mint flights too.

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zrs70
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:27 pm

Are the seat maps accurate? I am looking at various dates, and the maps look to be ordinary 757's.
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CONTACREW
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 39):

The flights should be loaded into the system.
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enilria
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:18 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

B6 will respond quickly to this if its a long term move. UA would be smart to only put it in the schedule for 90 days and roll it forward
 
United1
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:22 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 40):

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 39):

The flights should be loaded into the system.

It seems to be loaded...UA717 on July 16th is a P.S. aircraft....
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flyby519
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting Enilria (Reply 41):

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

B6 will respond quickly to this if its a long term move. UA would be smart to only put it in the schedule for 90 days and roll it forward

If B6 were smart they would jump in with Mint on BOS-LAX and BOS-SFO, forcing UA to have fragmented service levels (if UA responds at all) on the SFO route.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):
This is great news. I wonder if SFO or LAX will be first. I'm personally surprised to not see more JFK mint flights too.

I'm pretty sure BOS-SFO has more premium traffic (finance, tech, academia) than BOS-LAX (media, entertainment), so BOS-SFO would appear more logical to me. However, JFK-LAX appears to have better Mint loads and yields than JFK-SFO. So it could go either way.

We will see more JFK Mint flights for sure. I wouldn't be surprised to see JFK-LAS convert to Mint sooner rather than later, and more JFK-LAX frequencies (in addition to the 8th being added this summer). The great thing is that B6 can very easily change its A321 orders from the "complete Core" to "Mint" configuration with relatively short notice.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 41):
B6 will respond quickly to this if its a long term move. UA would be smart to only put it in the schedule for 90 days and roll it forward

Agreed. Though, ultimately, I think B6 is more concerned about VX than UA.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 20):
With their Mint product whic, if launched from BOS, will blow P.S. out of the market.

No carrier has exclusive rights to a market which which is very apparent on the JFK transcons.
Even with Mint, B6 might still end up being at the bottom of the market in average ticket revenue. Lets see how things play out, but Mint is certainly not something that will generate a knock-out punch to carriers like AA or UA.
Mint is more about boosting B6 dismal transcon performance, than hurting others.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 36):
I'd use B6 Mint over UA PS any day of the week.

And some folks would chose UA. For instance most my colleagues are invested in Mileage Plus or AAdvantage, so B6 does nothing for them.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 39):
Are the seat maps accurate? I am looking at various dates, and the maps look to be ordinary 757's.

What day do you see regular 757? Flights have been loaded since Saturday and the random checks I made show p.s. aircraft.
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georgiabill
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:58 pm

I think if B6 adds Mint service from BOS AA will have to react. Hopefully they will change a few of their future A321 orders to the transcon configuration used on JFK to LAX and SFO
 
airbazar
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:10 am

Quoting MVAair (Reply 32):
SFO fares are above LAX from BOS. BOS does not generate enough entertainment industry traffic to result in any significant volume on a daily basis day in and day out 365 days per year. BOS is no where near the top of film and tv production. LA is first, NYC is second and ATL and MSY are tied for third

I'm not disagreeing. I didn't say there was more traffic. You asked what was the connection between LAX and BOS and I answered. Having said that, the fares to LAX are lower because there is a lot more competiton. Only 3 airlines operate BOS-SFO while 5 airlines operate BOS-LAX. On top of that BOS has service to LGB and SAN which also adds a 6th airline (AS), operating between BOS and SoCal. So given those numbers I'm not sure SFO has more traffic than the LA area althought it's quite possible that it has more high yield traffic.
 
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:34 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 18):
Are these the RR or PW powered ones?

All of the p.s. planes are PW powered aircraft with winglets.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
United1
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RE: United Brings P.S. 757s To BOS-LAX Route

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:48 am

While this may be UA testing the waters it's also possible UA is making use of an aircraft that would otherwise be sitting on the ground. Doing some random checking the fares on the P.S. 757 are about $25-$50 higher than the A320 flight that flies alongside of it so they are aiming for a bit of a revenue premium over their normal product but not much. Also the BusinessFirst cabin is being sold as regular First....
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!

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