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Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:49 pm

Part 74 getting too long with over 200 replies, I archived it and made a new thread to continue the discussion:

Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 74 (by American 767 Nov 29 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:21 pm

Australia says hunt for missing MH370 jet may be called off soon:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/0...es-australia-idUKKBN0LX1RN20150301
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Australia says hunt for missing MH370 jet may be called off soon:

I just read a similar article.

Such news was inevitable IMHO.

MH370 may never be found  

It would be a real shame, as previously mentioned, if the plane was in an area just outside of the current search area and is just missed by the current search.

In other news resulting from MH370:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-0...racking-trial-flight-mh370/6272030

"""Australia will take part in a joint trial to improve aircraft tracking in response to the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 nearly a year ago, Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss has announced.

Under the new system, planes flying over remote oceanic areas would be tracked every 15 minutes, rather than at intervals of 30 to 40 minutes."""

Malaysia and Indonesia will also use improved tracking once the trial has been proven successful...
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
MH370 may never be found

Never say never. Last month a DC-3 was found after it went missing 54 years ago.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Never say never.

That is why I said 'may never'  
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Last month a DC-3 was found after it went missing 54 years ago.

The Titanic was eventually found too.

So was this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_BS...vro_Lancastrian_Star_Dust_accident

Other 'significant lost or missing items' have not been so fourtunate...

But for a state-of-the-art commercial aircraft that costed several hundred million dollars and had 239 souls on board to just vanish and still be missing after almost one year in 2014-15 is just totally unacceptable given the technological / advanced nature of today's world - totally unacceptable.

Unless accurate new information comes out, if the current search team can't find it using the resources and funds available to them then I doubt anybody else can   
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liquidair
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):

Have you read mandala's latest blog?

http://www.gerryairways.com/index.ph...s-but-what-can-we-learn-from-them/

Just saying... And on top of all that, MH17 was shot down over Ukraine.... Hey, these are just dots, I have no idea how they're meant to be connected.

For what it's worth, I think no matter how rationally we try to approach MH370, the truth will be anything but-maybe calling off the search South is good- focus on other plausible theories.
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OMP777X
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:40 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 5):
Have you read mandala's latest blog?

VERY interesting stuff to say the least. I'm so glad to see these clever minds bouncing their ideas back and forth off of each other.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 5):
Just saying... And on top of all that, MH17 was shot down over Ukraine.... Hey, these are just dots, I have no idea how they're meant to be connected.

Well put. I'm in the same boat as you are on that one.

Best,

OMP777X
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:18 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 5):
Have you read mandala's latest blog?

Why yes I have indeed. So odd that he would say something such as this:

I told Jeff that I got these information back in 2011 and had absolutely forgotten about them until I read his article about spoofing. It was only when I saw the 2 Ukrainians sitting below it did I remember all this!


So all this talk and conjecture about possible spoofing (including quite a bit on this very forum) for the past 11 months, and he 'absolutely forgot' about this claim he is just NOW making.

Seems like we have a credibility issue at hand. Very sad.
 
mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:09 am

Well, as I said in the article, only when I read Jeff's post did I remember this. It was and still is a ridiculous claim to use spoofing as a method to "I claim to know where it is"... Anyone who, even after reading the article, and Jeff's, and is convinced that the airplane was buried somewhere in Baikonur, needs to have his/her head checked. I mentioned that to Jeff and he agrees. If the plane ever made it there, or somewhere near there, it would have been flown elsewhere... and that makes us go back to square one on where the airplane ended up if it went north. The current plausible answer remains that the aircraft is most likely to have gone south. As crazy as his theory is, I have to give it to Jeff for his research (and even he thinks it's crazy).

Quoting liquidair (Reply 5):
For what it's worth, I think no matter how rationally we try to approach MH370, the truth will be anything but-maybe calling off the search South is good- focus on other plausible theories.

The search in the southern Indian Ocean should continue... Anyone who think I am saying the search should be made elsewhere, given the current information as of today, should have his/her head checked.

Anything else, even if it came from me... are just theories.

Spoofing it is possible. All the previous spoof talk here were about spoofing the AES ID and even the BTO which I don't believe is spoof-able. For MH370 to have the BFO spoofed, is possible, but unlikely.

The article is mainly aimed at exposing the risks on the security of the equipment. Jeff gave the idea, I built on it based on what I know, and yes, from 2011, and yes, it didn't come across my mind over the past 12 months sans 1 week so I didn't look into it until last weekend, because on it's own it sounded ridiculous, and to use it to say "I know where it is" is equally ludicrous.

What can we learn from these conspiracy theories? Simple, our satcom equipment on these aircraft are not safe. That's the main point. The guys in the aircraft connectivity industry understand the point I was making.

So let me reiterate... the article is not about MH370 not being in the southern Indian Ocean.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):
But for a state-of-the-art commercial aircraft that costed several hundred million dollars and had 239 souls on board to just vanish and still be missing after almost one year in 2014-15 is just totally unacceptable given the technological / advanced nature of today's world - totally unacceptable.

Those who understand the technology and it's costs, understand. We need cheaper airtime and cheaper equipment to enable an effective mandatory tracking requirement. Those who try to advocate "let's use the nice high end equipment that can be accessed from the cabin" should wake up from their dream after reading the blog post.
The last thing I want is for the industry to mandate new requirements but still expose us to the same risks.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:11 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 5):
Have you read mandala's latest blog?

Yes, I have read Mandala's excellent blog  

If something like the Jeff Wise scenario is what happened to MH370 (which I won't rule out until it is found elsewhere), then I am wondering if there would be satellite images of the plane either on the ground somewhere or flying again?

I mean, the plane could have landed just before sun rise but if it was not hidden somewhere there, then it would have had to take off again at some stage to fly somewhere else.

Would the next flight have been done at night? If so, where was the plane kept / hidden during that day and were the any images taken of that area on that day?

If the plane took off straight away after re-fuelling then it would have been flying in daylight so something / somebody must have seen it? Satellite image?

I just wonder, only if that scenario is what happened, if an image of the plane was caught by a satellite: whilst either on the ground or flying elswhere?

Also, it would have had to make an approach and land as well as takeoff. I know the area is remote, but I wonder if anybody saw an unusal aircraft movement that might have been MH370? So far there has been no reports of any sightings in that area. Again, I know that area is remote, but we are just talking about one person seeing and reporting something unless that person would be made to keep their mouth shut...

One more thing...

What were the cabin crew / other pax doing when the bad guys were doing their stuff and eventually had to go for the cockpit? Did somebody just climb down into the EE bay without question? I'm mean, including the crew, there were 236 other people on the plane if there were just 3 bad guys... 40 mins into a flight is usually busy time for the cabin crew if a meal service or clean up was around that time... I doubt the cabin would have been 'quite'. I'm just curious how these 3 people were able to get away with doing everything that they would have needed to do, and eventually take over the cockpit, under the Jeff Wise scenario...

I don't really know, MH370 is a mystery, but if the Jeff Wise theory is somewhat correct and that is where MH370 headed, then IMHO MH370 must have been seen by somebody or something like a satellite as it either parked on the ground long enough until the following night to depart again under the cover of darkness or it departed again straight away and therefore flew somewhere else in daylight and was thus visible.

If I had to place a bet on what happened I would still pick the following two scenarios in order:

1- Something made the Captain do it and it is in the SIO.
2- A failed hi-jack attempt and it is in the SIO.

Nonetheless, until it is found, and it is starting to look like that might never happen, I wouldn't rule out the Jeff Wise scenario.

Let's hope it is found in the SIO by the time the search of the priority area is completed...

[Edited 2015-03-02 03:07:39]
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David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:31 am

Fascinating stuff - thank you Mandala499. However, anyone reading it must read it all the way to the end!

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
All the previous spoof talk here were about spoofing the AES ID and even the BTO which I don't believe is spoof-able. For MH370 to have the BFO spoofed, is possible, but unlikely.

And, just to be clear, the allegations here are that Inmarsat manufactured bogus data on behalf of various governments - something absolutely not supported by your observations as far as I can see.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:37 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):
But for a state-of-the-art commercial aircraft that costed several hundred million dollars and had 239 souls on board to just vanish and still be missing after almost one year in 2014-15 is just totally unacceptable given the technological / advanced nature of today's world - totally unacceptable.

Those who understand the technology and it's costs, understand. We need cheaper airtime and cheaper equipment to enable an effective mandatory tracking requirement. Those who try to advocate "let's use the nice high end equipment that can be accessed from the cabin" should wake up from their dream after reading the blog post.
The last thing I want is for the industry to mandate new requirements but still expose us to the same risks.

Sorry mate, I must have been typing my last reply when you posted your last reply so I was not able to respond to it - I missed it.

I agree that it is pointless for the industry to mandate new requirements if we are still exposed to the same risks.

I just can't believe how a 777 full of people can be lost to the extent of MH370 - basically without a trace except for a few hourly pings that people admit could be misleading / falsified. That's all.

I do welcome the following announcement about improved aircraft tracking over remote oceanic areas using ADS-C technology in which the aircraft's location will be known every 15mins inseatd of the current 30-40mins. It's also good to hear that Malaysia and Indonesia will also be using improved aircraft tracking once proven successful. However, if a plane goes missing near the 15min mark and glides for a long time we could still have another MH370 type scenario... Nonetheless, still good news IMHO.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-0...racking-trial-flight-mh370/6272030
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:42 am

Quoting David L (Reply 10):
However, anyone reading it must read it all the way to the end!

That's the risk for reading what I write !   

Quoting David L (Reply 10):
And, just to be clear, the allegations here are that Inmarsat manufactured bogus data on behalf of various governments - something absolutely not supported by your observations as far as I can see.

In a way yes. Certain aspects of the data can be spoofed provided you have the right equipment and tested it beforehand. I still think the AES ID and BTO would be a lot harder to spoof than the BFO... (but I think AES ID is almost spoof-proof).

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 11):
Sorry mate, I must have been typing my last reply when you posted your last reply so I was not able to respond to it - I missed it.

No worries... The fact that planes can still go missing despite today's technology, is a very hard, but still a very real bitter pill to swallow.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
theaviator380
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:00 am

Excellent blog Mandala and thanks to Jeff wise too, it's great to see both has put in some great efforts to write their blogs/theories. My questions are,

1. How did these 3 people could have managed to fiddle with aspects of Satcom while keeping other people/crew quiet?
2. Is there more investigation been done to search those 3 people, their background, their recent past activities?

Also,

I think, other countries like India, Pak are not obliged to give away any data, because assuming if aircraft was flown again and if it was picked up by any of the radar from those countries, it will potentially give away info to other countries about their Radar capabilities and capacities. Is this correct?

NB - I am not into aviation as a profession, neither in avionics etc..so please bear with my questions as one might find them silly !  

Thanks.
 
YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:32 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 13):
2. Is there more investigation been done to search those 3 people, their background, their recent past activities?

According to Tailskid, a fair while back, all passengers on this flight were (properly?) checked out and, I presume, nothing suspicious was found.
 
David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 12):
In a way yes.

What I mean is that your scenario is quite different from having Inmarsat fake the data at their end.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 12):
That's the risk for reading what I write !   

I must admit, I was beginning to wonder if you'd "turned".  
Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 13):
1. How did these 3 people could have managed to fiddle with aspects of Satcom while keeping other people/crew quiet?
2. Is there more investigation been done to search those 3 people, their background, their recent past activities?

Did you read the conclusions? Unless I've missed the point, for the purposes of the article I don't think those details matter. The point is not that it was done but that it could be done.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 14):
Quoting David L (Reply 15):

Thanks guys !  
 
ZKCIF
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:57 pm

First of all, I would ask questions about the itinerary of the Russian and Ukrainian citizens.
It is EXTREMELY illogical for them to be on this flight. The dates of their coming to Malaysia, their routes and further flights (bookings) could be extremely suggestive.

Being from a geographically close region to them I cannot imagine any plausible situation (concerning best fares via long detours, etc.) making someone fly this way.

There are people combining visits to 2 or more FARAWAY countries during holidays. Yet, the combination of Malaysia and China does not sound logical at all.

Also, these guys were without wives, kids, other relatives.

If Malaysia revealed information whether the Ukrainians booked these seats by themselves or got them randomly could be quite suggestive.
I personally would never in my lifetime (when the plane is not full) take such seats
 
liquidair
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):

I totally get that you're not suggesting it as a possible theory and I did read the article until the end- clearly security is an issue that needs to be looked at.

However, the search in the SIO has not yielded so much as a single panel from MH370, and I just find it extremely difficult to believe that the plane sunk in one whole piece.

Stepping back and reassessing the situation might give them a new insight.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 9):
Nonetheless, until it is found, and it is starting to look like that might never happen, I wouldn't rule out the Jeff Wise scenario

Indeed, the situation hasn't had any progress whatsoever since the southern route was first put forward- it's staggering to believe, considering the technology and extremely intelligent people I'm sure are working on trying to find it.
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777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:10 pm

Really interesting Jeff and Mandala's alternative views on the issue.

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 17):

Why is it unusual? The Russian might be heading to Irkutsk which is nearby and he was from there, the Ukranians could be going for any purpose not necessarily a holiday. I

BTW the Russian guy is Jewish as was reported by a Jewish/Israeli paper.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 18):
However, the search in the SIO has not yielded so much as a single panel from MH370, and I just find it extremely difficult to believe that the plane sunk in one whole piece.

It's a big ocean, by the time search efforts were started any parts would have been carried away already and could have probably ended up somewhere near Antarctica. If it was a controlled ditching there probably wouldn't have been all that much floating debris anyway.

In any case search efforts in current search zone shouldn't be stopped until they've gone through it all.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
ZKCIF
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 19):
Why is it unusual? The Russian might be heading to Irkutsk which is nearby and he was from there, the Ukranians could be going for any purpose not necessarily a holiday. I

BTW the Russian guy is Jewish as was reported by a Jewish/Israeli paper.
OK, I see your point, but then the Russian guy would likely be on the second part of his journey. In this case, it would be interesting to find out HOW he got to Malaysia, whether he took the cheapest travel option available, etc. I understand that Malaysian Airlines did not codeshare with any operator which might be flying PEK-IKT (these seem to be two, Hainan and S7), hence this might have been quite an unexplainably expensive itinerary.

the Ukrainians? I would bet my weekly income that during the year before the tragic MH370 flight, there had been precisely ZERO Ukrainians on that flight. of course, I may lose but... By the way, there are no more 'strange' nationalities on MH370.

[Edited 2015-03-02 13:27:13]
 
777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:35 pm

Not sure but China Southern also flew to IKT, I can bet they researched the three throughly and even if they are prime suspects it will never be leaked out, there might be consequences.
 
ZKCIF
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 22):
Not sure but China Southern also flew to IKT

You don't mean KHV, do you? I am not sure they ever flew to IKT.

Expedia is not the best source, but I tried booking IKT-KUL return on various dates, and the best prices were when flying via Bangkok S7-MH or (much more expensive) Hong Kong S7-CX. There were NO options via Beijing at all. Sounds quite strange.
 
nudiebranch
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
Well, as I said in the article, only when I read Jeff's post did I remember this.

Interesting that it took Jeff's blog to remember all of THIS:

From your pen:

"In 2011, I led the Aerospace and Defence Solutions department at one of the local Inmarsat resellers here in Indonesia. I told him that back then I have heard rumours of 2 Indonesian guys who have managed to remote spoof the BFO’s while they worked for Inmarsat during integrity testings of the Inmarsat 3 system. And then in several defence related meetings in 2011, I was also told that the other guys who can spoof the BFOs (remote or through the satcom terminal) are Israelis (using Russian immigrant engineers), the Chinese (using the Israeli expertise) and the Russians too, but obviously my sources didn’t want to go into details. The other interesting thing is that the Israelis do have their own set of satcom engineers dealing with “new innovations” for Inmarsat satcom, through one of the Inmarsat Distribution Partners, so, nothing surprising there if anyone can spoof the BFO"

And you JUST NOW remembered all of THIS? Multiple meetings, multiple discussions, ALL of which, according to you, involved some discussion about spoofing BFO. Including the possibility of the Chinese and Russians having this capability.

Then you rack your brain over the AES issue for months on end and fail to remember these discussions?

Sorry, but I'm having none of it.
 
777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 23):

You don't mean KHV, do you? I am not sure they ever flew to IKT.

They do IKT from Shenyang http://www.anna.aero/2011/07/13/chin...rom-shenyang-to-irkutsk-in-russia/
 
ZKCIF
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 25):
They do IKT from Shenyang http://www.anna.aero/2011/07/13/chin...rom-shenyang-to-irkutsk-in-russia/

Looks like this would not help as they would have to enter the territory of China for which Russians would need visas. Russians only seem to be exempt when they are a part of an organized tour group which is not the case http://cs.mfa.gov.cn/zlbg/tyxy_660627/P020141225492284772029.pdf.
There are no exemptions for Ukrainians at all
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting nudiebranch (Reply 24):
Then you rack your brain over the AES issue for months on end and fail to remember these discussions?

Sorry, but I'm having none of it.

If you'd been on here for more than 1 day, you'd know how diligent mandala499 is. I suggest you start by reading his posts for the last 5 years.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
nudiebranch
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 27):
I suggest you start by reading his posts for the last 5 years.

And, good sir, in return I would suggest that an explanation is owed as to how one who is 'so diligent', and who has read and engaged countless discussions regarding spoofing (as related to MH370) over the past 11 months, has just now had his memory jogged?

It's a rather important matter, is it not?
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:56 am

The whole idea of spoofing the satcom signals relies on the supposition that spoofing the satcom (a non-trivial if feasible exercise) would be in some way preferable to disconnecting it entirely. Why leave a wrong trail when you could leave no trail at all, not even ping rings? The spoofing idea fails Occam's Razor.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:35 am

There are sometimes a.net members who have known people / somebody on an incident / accident flight.

I am just curious if there are any a.net members who actually knew somebody that was on flight MH370?

Or, at least know somebody who knew somebody that was on flight MH370?

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 27):
Quoting nudiebranch (Reply 24):
Then you rack your brain over the AES issue for months on end and fail to remember these discussions?

Sorry, but I'm having none of it.

If you'd been on here for more than 1 day, you'd know how diligent mandala499 is. I suggest you start by reading his posts for the last 5 years.

Perhaps our latest contributor to this thread has indeed been following this thread or the contributions of mandala499 for longer than their 'joined a.net date' indicates: eg: oxymorph  
Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 29):
The whole idea of spoofing the satcom signals relies on the supposition that spoofing the satcom (a non-trivial if feasible exercise) would be in some way preferable to disconnecting it entirely. Why leave a wrong trail when you could leave no trail at all, not even ping rings? The spoofing idea fails Occam's Razor.

Interesting how you mention 'Occams Razor' as that was part of the title in the blog published by Jeff Wise on December 1, 2014, in which the idea of the 'Spoof' scenario was first published.

See below:

http://jeffwise.net/2014/12/01/occams-razor-is-overrated/

Here is a link to the first blog in which the spoof scenario was discussed - the links to the 'Spoof' are at the end of the 'Occams Razor' blog:

http://jeffwise.net/the-spoof-part-1-why-a-speculative-scenario/

This message has now been included at the top of the blog - and mentiones the 'updated version' of 'Spoof' - which we are now discussing:

"""UPDATE 2/23/15: An updated version of “Spoof,” including an extensive introductory section explaining the investigation into the disappearance of MH370, is now available as the Kindle Single “The Plane That Wasn’t There: Why We Haven’t Found MH370″ – that lovely cover image to your right."""

All I am suggesting is that Jeff Wise's 'Spoof' scenario is not new - it's about 3 months old - so I wonder why all the recent interest in it?
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Flightsimboy
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:43 am

So with this new development, I have not been following the other threads, are both MH tragedies linked. Did MH 370 start out with the intended purpose to suffer the fate of MH 17, but did not succeed resulting in the second attempt with MH 17.
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mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:17 am

Nudiebranch, feel free to think or accuse what you want. You are free to not buy any of it. There is more to satcom than just spoofing. Spoofing does not come into my mind when having "all those meetings", because the industry is largely predisposed to think that spoofing belongs to the lunatic fringe. My focus over the past 12 months on MH370 has been on the Southern Indian Ocean and counter arguing the ideas of AES ID spoofing and BTO spoofing, which methodology would be different and extremely hard in comparison to spoofing the BTO.

It is a mere hypothesis and used to elaborate on physical security risks of the peripherals. It is not about me believing where the aircraft is.

Glad you enjoyed the reading and had your thoughts provoked.  
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nudiebranch
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 32):
It is a mere hypothesis and used to elaborate on physical security risks of the peripherals. It is not about me believing where the aircraft is.

I have no interest in what you do or do not believe. You're conflating the issue. My only concern is how you JUST NOW remembered these conversations regarding BFO.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 32):
. Spoofing does not come into my mind when having "all those meetings", because the industry is largely predisposed to think that spoofing belongs to the lunatic fringe. My focus over the past 12 months on MH370 has been on the Southern Indian Ocean and counter arguing the ideas of AES ID spoofing and BTO spoofing, which methodology would be different and extremely hard in comparison to spoofing the BTO.

Interesting omission of BFO...as though this never crossed your mind over the past 12 months. This is very unbelievable. After all, it is the BFO that differentiates the northern from southern route. Kind of a big deal.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 8):
Well, as I said in the article, only when I read Jeff's post did I remember this.

This is just as unbelievable. I have seen countless discussions on this very thread in regard to ALL MANNER OF SPOOFING...ad naseum. This included Russians, BFO, etc...and yet you claim that it was Jeff's mention of this possibility that jogged your memory about this issue?

Why the big lie? Why the fabrication?

[Edited 2015-03-02 21:17:57]
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:02 am

Quoting nudiebranch (Reply 33):
Why the big lie? Why the fabrication?

I guess it's time for Mandala to finally acknowledge that he took over MH370. You've been unmasked, buddy.  
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tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:03 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 27):
..........you'd know how diligent mandala499 is.

Which proves nudiebranch's point!

It seems pretty obvious that "nudiebranch" is a regular poster here who doesn't want to incur the wrath of the A.net "experts."

BTW
Giving Jeff Wise any credibility on MH370 is like seeing Jim Garrison as a credible source of information about the JFK assassination. The guy is a straight up Charlatan.

Until March 11th 2014 nobody except a few engineers working for Inmarsat knew that BFO data even existed in the logged information from the AES packets. The idea of anyone "spoofing" this data is preposterous.

Or if someone was worried about location projections from Sat data -

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 29):
The whole idea of spoofing the satcom signals relies on the supposition that spoofing the satcom (a non-trivial if feasible exercise) would be in some way preferable to disconnecting it entirely.
.
.
Quoting nudiebranch (Reply 33):
Why the big lie? Why the fabrication?

Because of the agenda to conceal the blatantly obvious fact that Zaharie hijacked his own aircraft.

The real question becomes:
Why defend a mass murderer? or Why obscure the truth?
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:06 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 35):
Because of the agenda to conceal the blatantly obvious fact that Zaharie hijacked his own aircraft.

There's of course nothing blatantly obvious about that, and you know it perfectly well, but you keep repeating the same song over and over again for (to me) unknown reasons.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 35):
Why defend a mass murderer? or Why obscure the truth?

So, without a shred of evidence, you accuse a (presumably) dead man, who can't defend himself, of being a mass murderer, and then complain when people dare explore other hypotheses... Welcome back, tailskid.  
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tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:09 am

There is a ton of evidence and it has been posted in this forum by myself and a few others.

Why defend a mass murderer? Why obscure the truth?

Why provide a platform for a charlatan? (Jeff Wise)

[Edited 2015-03-03 01:24:08]
 
David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 35):
Because of the agenda to conceal the blatantly obvious fact that Zaharie hijacked his own aircraft.

Whoops. You didn't read the whole blog, did you? It contains no such agenda.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 37):
Why defend a mass murderer?



  
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:48 am

Quoting David L (Reply 38):
You didn't read the whole blog, did you?

I've read Gerry's blog and all 75 parts of this thread.
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:03 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 37):

Just repeating the same sentences over and over again doesn't make them any more true. There are no proofs. And you are simply gratuitously insulting the memory of a dead man, without proofs. It's despicable.
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tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:07 am

Again, this has all been covered in detail in this thread - many times.

If you have any arguments with my hypothesis, make them.
And it is you who is glossing over the deaths of 238 innocent people.
 
LovesCoffee
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:50 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 39):
Quoting nudiebranch (Reply 33):

Give it a rest, please.   
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David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:56 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 39):
I've read Gerry's blog and all 75 parts of this thread

Then I fail to understand how you can call it an attempt to defend the Captain if you read all the way through to the end.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 41):
And it is you who is glossing over the deaths of 238 innocent people.

Skipping the investigation would be glossing over. Waiting for an investigation to consider as much evidence as possible is the opposite. It's not all that unusual for accident investigations to take a twist after the initial evidence makes the cause seem straight forward. If and when the search has been called off without finding any further evidence then all bets are off. It still wouldn't be "fact".

You seem to be adopting similar tactics with the evidence as you are in reading Gerry's blog: you're taking in a certain amount of evidence, reaching a conclusion then closing the door on any further evidence. I don't disagree that the evidence supports the "Captain did it" scenario but I strongly disagree that it's the only possibility.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 29):
Why leave a wrong trail when you could leave no trail at al

Precisely, and that applies to the notion of Inmarsat providing false data, as well.

Edit: Corrected a double negative.

[Edited 2015-03-03 02:59:27]
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:09 am

Quoting David L (Reply 43):
Then I fail to understand how you can call it an attempt to defend the Captain if you didn't read all the way through to the end.

The stonewalling of any information pointing at Zaharie is found all through the 75 parts of this thread

Quoting David L (Reply 43):
Waiting for an investigation to consider as much evidence as possible.....

An investigation by Malaysia - by people appointed by Hishammuddin, is sure to be an exercise in ambiguity.

Quoting David L (Reply 43):
I don't disagree that the evidence supports the "Captain did it" scenario but I strongly disagree that it's the only possibility.

Like what?

Quoting David L (Reply 43):
Precisely, and that applies to the notion of Inmarsat providing false data, as well.

Are you seriously suggesting that Inmarsat falsified their data?
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 41):
And it is you who is glossing over the deaths of 238 innocent people.

I'm of course not glossing over the (very probable) deaths of 238 people. I want to know the truth. Hence I want to entertain, explore and analyze any and all hypotheses. Unlike you, who are fixated in only one hypothesis and criticize anybody who even considers other explanations. Even presumed mass murderers deserve and get a fair trial. You, instead, have become a one-person lynch mob.
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tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:19 am

I am here discussing an aviation incident.
You are here engaging in ad hominems.

If you ever want to discuss what happened to MH370, let me know.
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:40 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 46):
I am here discussing an aviation incident.

No, sir, you are not discussing. When somebody tries to discuss, this is your reply:

Quoting tailskid (Reply 35):
Because of the agenda to conceal the blatantly obvious fact that Zaharie hijacked his own aircraft.
Quoting tailskid (Reply 35):
Why defend a mass murderer? or Why obscure the truth?
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YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:42 am

Several weeks ago, a few months at most, I dared to question the veracity of the satellite data; as that would have been an indicator whether 9M-MRO went south over the Indian Ocean or maybe somewhere else instead.

I was seriously scoffed at and howled down; how dare I questioning that data!

Now, all of a sudden, the message is [we] '...knew it all along' that at least some spoofing can be done; and, presumably, relatively easy for someone with the necessary technical knowledge.

That's all very interesting ....
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 75

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:52 am

My technical assertions are in this thread. I have repeated them over and over and over again, I have posted links to a Google earth KML file which details my projected flightpaths. I have posted detailed timelines for MH370.

But all I get from the save the Captain crowd is conversation like yours derailing any real discussion of what happened to MH370.

Then there is your chorus of about four boobs here who know nothing about aviation, but who constantly post conversations and links to thoroughly debunked claims, Daily Mail articles, theories about CIA abductions nuclear bomb theories, or other nonsense that has nothing at all to do with MH370.

All this to avoid the obvious truth.

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