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QF175
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AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:26 pm

Source - AusBT

United, American Airlines eye direct flights to Auckland

Quote:
IN BRIEF | American Airlines and United Airlines are considering launching direct flights between the USA and New Zealand, potentially busting the Air New Zealand monopoly and giving Qantas travellers a US-via-Auckland option for stateside flights.

Continues...

United - reportedly considering flights from San Francisco to Auckland using 787s
American Airlines - reportedly running numbers on Los Angeles-Auckland

Stuff.co.nz article below also refers:

stuff.co.nz - Air New Zealand faces trans-Pacific competition

[Edited 2015-03-01 15:48:40]
 
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777Jet
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:32 pm

Great if it happens!

Can't say that I'm surprised given all the recent chatter about US carriers entering the USA-AKL market.

Also good to see the game-changing 787 again being the type considered for a carrier to launch a new route  
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commavia
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:33 pm

Neither speculated route is all that surprising, and both seem to make sense with 787.

United operating SFO-AKL alongside Air NZ is interesting given the scale of the SFO hub. As North American connecting points go, I think SFO makes far more sense than IAH ever did.

As for LAX-AKL, AA's interest in the route has been long-rumored since QANTAS exited, particularly given the growth of AA's LAX hub and the QANTAS/JetStar marketing and connectivity boost at the AKL end. It will be interesting to see if AA does enter this route and break the Air NZ/Star monopoly on New Zealand-U.S.
 
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:14 am

I've always wondered why UA didn't operate a mini scissor hub through AKL to supplement the direct Oz flights. Something like:

LAX-AKL-MEL
SFO-AKL-SYD
IAH-AKL-BNE
What?
 
xiaotung
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:21 am

Not surprised about AA but didn't UA and NZ have a mutual agreement when they pulled out of AKL and SYD respectively more than 10 years ago? If NZ let UA re-enter AKL, does it mean NZ have plans about Australia-US routes, perhaps in conjunction with VA?
 
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 3):

I've always wondered why UA didn't operate a mini scissor hub through AKL to supplement the direct Oz flights. Something like:

LAX-AKL-MEL
SFO-AKL-SYD
IAH-AKL-BNE

That would be a lot of capacity to AKL! Especially with the current Australian operations! And what would it really add?
 
United1
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:30 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 4):
didn't UA and NZ have a mutual agreement when they pulled out of AKL and SYD respectively more than 10 years ago?

The mutual agreement may be more of a rumor than reality....UA and NZ do have ATI so they are able to work together on schedules and pricing but there is no joint venture in place.
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IAHflyer97
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:42 am

Hmm maybe UA could work with NZ and free up one of their 777's to use on IAH?

My hopes aside. I feel that AKL is long overdue on UA metal. Even though it's not confirmed, I feel like LAX or SFO should've had it long ago.
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LAX772LR
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:23 am

Be interesting to see how DL/VA react as well...
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Miami
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:26 am

May I recommend for AA to launch MIA-AKL on a 789?!

Haha. Just kidding.

I wish AA would do something we wouldn't expect. Like this. LAX-AKL would make sense for them. Hopefully it comes to reality and I'm sure the market can substand another flight on a 787.
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toxtethogrady
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:40 am

At this point it is too late for UA to show interest in IAH-AKL. It should belong to NZ.
 
United1
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 10):
At this point it is too late for UA to show interest in IAH-AKL. It should belong to NZ.

...not too late at all....if a flight is loaded however SFO is more likely at this point.
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S75752
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
I think SFO makes far more sense than IAH ever did.

If it wasn't already served in a JV then yes it would, but NZ already serves it sufficiently.

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 7):
Hmm maybe UA could work with NZ and free up one of their 777's to use on IAH?

Only if UA were to use a 777 of their own, NZ already uses 77W's on it for some frequencies. So it wouldn't make much sense since it'd probably just be a 777 right in its place! What I could potentially see is a UA 788 in addition to NZ's 777 on the days that NZ uses a 772 instead of a 77W.

I think if a 777 were to be freed up by NZ putting a 789 in its place for something short haul. What that would be, I have no clue. A 789 would make the most sense for NZ to IAH but I think someone said that they were short range configured or something, lacking crew rests?
 
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):
If it wasn't already served in a JV then yes it would, but NZ already serves it sufficiently.

Does UA and NZ have joint venture? I don't think they do - but I could be wrong.
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United1
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 13):
Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):
If it wasn't already served in a JV then yes it would, but NZ already serves it sufficiently.

Does UA and NZ have joint venture? I don't think they do - but I could be wrong.

No joint venture....just ATI.
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Kashmon
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:24 am

AA is always considering transpacific expansion at LAX...

never doing

eternally considering!
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:34 am

Well LAX and SFO are covered by NZ (does UA have a JV with NZ?)

So that leaves IAH DEN and ORD, which NZ were reportedly looking at not too long ago. IAH-AKL was even proposed and on the route map (but we all know how that turned out). IAH has the best chance IMO.
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DeltaXNA
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:55 am

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 15):
AA is always considering transpacific expansion at LAX...

never doing

eternally considering!

Once more 787s are delivered, you will probably see more announcements for LAX-Asia. Remember, this is a new AA with a new management. So far we have seen nothing but growth in the AA/US network, with only minor cuts on routes. Even PHX has seen minor growth when no one thought it would (PHX-MTJ). The 787 will allow AA to compete from LAX to Asia.
 
etops1
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 15):

that was the old AA. The new one will do a lot more than consider ..
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:29 am

Could this be third time lucky for AA in the South Pacific after their previous services to AKL with 707s in the early '70s and DC-10s in the early '80s ?
 
chrisp390
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:20 am

If they can support 3 daily 77W flights into LAX at a pretty decent premium over SYD-LAX I think it is a no brainer for someone else to launch
 
S75752
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:29 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
(does UA have a JV with NZ?)

It is codeshared, not sure if that counts. I think it'd just be bizarre for UA to try and start up a new market, while they already have a partner there with all the capability needed.

But can someone please explain why one of NZ's 789's would not be sufficient for IAH?
 
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 8):

Same way they reacted when UA added LAX-MEL

Delta or Virgin simply don't have the aircraft. If Delta were to add LAX-AKL or MEL at this point they would have to 1) stop parking 744s, put 744s back into ATL, JFK, MSP-NRT and then have the 777 capacity to add one of those cities or B) add some other international aircraft.

I don't think 1 or 2 is going to happen so at best ask the question in 2018..... (clearly with 25 A350s and only 8 744s to replace they will have plenty of chances to grow)
 
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:37 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 19):

I certainly hope so.. They're nearly guaranteed to thrive under a duopoly, especially given QF will be able to feed traffic to this flight. AA should look to get QF to operate PER-AKL all year round to capture the PER market with a more streamlined travel experience compared with going via SYD/MEL/BNE.
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 21):

NZ 789s are leisure heavy better suited to Asia. IAH would likely be a 772. I'm now wondering though if NZ will go for ORD.

Be good to see a US carrier in AKL again though UA would surprise me a bit.
 
Max Q
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:22 am

How long ago did United stop AKL service ?
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LAX772LR
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:32 am

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 10):
At this point it is too late for UA to show interest in IAH-AKL. It should belong to NZ.

Based on what?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 25):

UA dropped LAX-AKL in March 2003 12 years ago.
 
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777Jet
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:19 am



Quoting bwwt (Reply 5):
Quoting aerohottie (Reply 3):

I've always wondered why UA didn't operate a mini scissor hub through AKL to supplement the direct Oz flights. Something like:

LAX-AKL-MEL
SFO-AKL-SYD
IAH-AKL-BNE

That would be a lot of capacity to AKL! Especially with the current Australian operations! And what would it really add?

  

Moreover, that is a lot of capacity via a city that UA doesn't currently even operate to...  

If UA did that AKL would almost (not really almost, but you get the idea) be the South Pacific's NRT  

I would like to see UA metal in BNE however - so where that could come from, or via, would be interesting...

[Edited 2015-03-02 02:25:00]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
Thomaas
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:20 am

I see LAX-BNE before LAX-AKL.
 
S75752
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:32 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 28):

I would like to see UA metal in BNE however - so where that could come from, or via, would be interesting...

I think GUM actually will have a good bet to BNE with a 737 Max.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 24):
NZ 789s are leisure heavy better suited to Asia. IAH would likely be a 772. I'm now wondering though if NZ will go for ORD.

I doubt ORD, due to the range. Sure they could do it with a 789 or 77W, but I doubt they would since it flies somewhat near LAX anyways with plenty of connection frequency through LAX.

772 for IAH sounds like a good bet but I think that would have to come from SFO getting a complete upgrade to full 77W, or some other 772 destination getting dropped to 789. .
 
commavia
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 8):
Be interesting to see how DL/VA react as well...
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
Same way they reacted when UA added LAX-MEL

Delta or Virgin simply don't have the aircraft.

  

Delta/Virgin may not have the aircraft, but then also don't have the feed at AKL to benefit from the way AA would and Air NZ obviously does.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 19):
Could this be third time lucky for AA in the South Pacific after their previous services to AKL with 707s in the early '70s and DC-10s in the early '80s ?

Personally, it would be very cool to see AA back in the South Pacific after a nearly 25-year absence - I was on what I believe was one of the last AA DC10 flights out of AKL back in 1991.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 23):
They're nearly guaranteed to thrive under a duopoly, especially given QF will be able to feed traffic to this flight.

Not sure it's "guaranteed," per se, but I agree that given the feed at LAX and JetStar connectivity in AKL, plus QANTAS' substantial marketing/FF presence in NZ, AA would stand a good chance with a 787 to LAX.

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 29):
I see LAX-BNE before LAX-AKL.

Does the BNE market truly demand more capacity to the U.S., on top of the existing QANTAS and Virgin flights?
 
jayunited
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:51 pm

This would be a great addition for both AA and UA and with taking delievery of quite a few 789's and AA now starting to take delievery of the 788 I think LAX/SFO-AKL would work for both these airlines.
 
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United787
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 3):
LAX-AKL-MEL

Maybe not a scissor hub but they did do that route, I flew it in 1993!
 
a380787
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:54 pm

SFO-AKL is only 6516mi, very easily doable with a 788 if UA doesn't want to over-commit in the beginning
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):
A 789 would make the most sense for NZ to IAH but I think someone said that they were short range configured or something, lacking crew rests?

It is generally expected that NZ will introduce a version of the 789 with more premium seats. Two of the three due later this year may be so configured. They only need one more in the 302-seat config. to allow them to do AKL-PER/NRT/PVG 7x weekly.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 21):

But can someone please explain why one of NZ's 789's would not be sufficient for IAH?

Perfectly adequate ,, the 789 will haul ~36t assuming a westbound leg of ~ 14hr 30 min.
Quoting Miami (Reply 9):
May I recommend for AA to launch MIA-AKL on a 789?!

How about NZ doing AKL-MIA and making a deal with AA for a feed at MIA?

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 24):
NZ 789s are leisure heavy better suited to Asia. IAH would likely be a 772. I'm now wondering though if NZ will go for ORD.


In my view ORD-AKL at about 16.5hrs will only work with the 77W. At max passenger of 280 seats the 789 runs out of steam at ~16hrs. The 77E is about the same.
 
a380787
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 35):
How about NZ doing AKL-MIA and making a deal with AA for a feed at MIA?

that's the surest way to ask for major retaliation from UA
 
alfa164
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
Delta or Virgin simply don't have the aircraft. If Delta were to add LAX-AKL or MEL at this point they would have to 1) stop parking 744s, put 744s back into ATL, JFK, MSP-NRT and then have the 777 capacity to add one of those cities or B) add some other international aircraft.

I wish they would stop parking those 744's... but I realize the economics of their decision. I am thinking DL's decision to delay/change their 787 orders may be coming back to haunt them. UA and AA are beginning to take advantage of the benefits the 787 offers... while DL is just watching...

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):
Delta/Virgin may not have the aircraft, but then also don't have the feed at AKL to benefit from the way AA would and Air NZ obviously does.

No one has the feed that Air NZ does, but VA has a sizable operation there - and it could grow, with more direct feed from the USA.
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commavia
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:27 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 37):
No one has the feed that Air NZ does, but VA has a sizable operation there - and it could grow, with more direct feed from the USA.

Air NZ obvious does and always will necessarily dominate, although Virgin simply doesn't have the same AKL connectivity that AA would benefit from with QANTAS/JetStar. The vast majority of Virgin's flights out of AKL are to cities in Australia - cities, notably, that either competitors or Virgin itself already fly to nonstop from LAX. JetStar, on the other hand, would provide a hypothetical AA flight with internal connectivity to domestic points within New Zealand. Not that this would make or break a flight - New Zealand is, after all, a relatively small country, but it would certainly help.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
that's the surest way to ask for major retaliation from UA

I think NZ if they play it right can take either UA or AA out of play on SFO/LAX-AKL but not both.
 
a380787
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 38):

Air NZ obvious does and always will necessarily dominate, although Virgin simply doesn't have the same AKL connectivity that AA would benefit from with QANTAS/JetStar. The vast majority of Virgin's flights out of AKL are to cities in Australia - cities, notably, that either competitors or Virgin itself already fly to nonstop from LAX. JetStar, on the other hand, would provide a hypothetical AA flight with internal connectivity to domestic points within New Zealand. Not that this would make or break a flight - New Zealand is, after all, a relatively small country, but it would certainly help.

I'd imagine most of the domestic NZ connection demand would be heading to places like CHC and ZQN. I've visited ZQN and it's an absolute gem
 
747megatop
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
United - reportedly considering flights from San Francisco to Auckland using 787s
American Airlines - reportedly running numbers on Los Angeles-Auckland

why out of LAX & SFO? Wouldn't DFW-AKL (for American) and IAH-AKL (for United) have made more sense?
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 41):
why out of LAX & SFO? Wouldn't DFW-AKL (for American) and IAH-AKL (for United) have made more sense?

I agree. However in AA's case the chatter seems to be that they are attempting to build their LAX hub. The IAH-AKL thing goes way back to CO days.
 
zkncj
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 38):
although Virgin simply doesn't have the same AKL connectivity that AA would benefit from with QANTAS/JetStar. The vast majority of Virgin's flights out of AKL are to cities in Australia - cities, notably, that either competitors or Virgin itself already fly to nonstop from LAX

You do realize that Virgin Australia is 25.9% owned by Air New Zealand? NZ/VA have an massive partnership across all there Tasman/Domestic Services, which effectively means they code share on everyone of these flights.

Virgin & Air New Zealand together have an much bigger share of the NZ Domesitc/Tasman market, that Qantas/Jetstar has. In-fact in the recent years Qantas has pulled back.
 
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cageyjames
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:37 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 41):
why out of LAX & SFO? Wouldn't DFW-AKL (for American) and IAH-AKL (for United) have made more sense?

Probably O&D for AA. I would think UA would do LAX for the same reasons.
 
commavia
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 43):
You do realize that Virgin Australia is 25.9% owned by Air New Zealand? NZ/VA have an massive partnership across all there Tasman/Domestic Services, which effectively means they code share on everyone of these flights.

I suspect Air NZ derives a substantial portion of their profits from the trans-Pacific market. I doubt they would be all that interested in voluntarily handing any portion of that market to Virgin Australia, regardless of their minority ownership interest, particularly since - to my knowledge - the two would still be prohibited from cooperating on scheduling or pricing, and would remain competitors.
 
S75752
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:28 pm

For what it's worth, UA appears to have some interline with Jetconnect QF and Jetstar for Trans tasman stuff. Just noticed it on their site. I have no clue why they do. This is on searches for LAX or SFO - AKL, these options appear to be significantly cheaper on UA's searches than the nonstop NZ option in some summer months.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 37):

I wish they would stop parking those 744's... but I realize the economics of their decision. I am thinking DL's decision to delay/change their 787 orders may be coming back to haunt them. UA and AA are beginning to take advantage of the benefits the 787 offers... while DL is just watching...

The DL 330-200 maybe could make it to LAX-AKL. I think NZ served that at some point, at least others here have mentioned it in the past. It's about the same as SEA-HKG and shorter than DTW-NGO.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:45 pm

I thought this paragraph was worth mentioning:

"...Air New Zealand runs flights from its Auckland hub to Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vancouver, with another North American city – possibly Chicago, Houston or even Las Vegas – tipped to join the network this year..."

So the idea of IAH-AKL is not far-fetched.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:55 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 46):
The DL 330-200 maybe could make it to LAX-AKL. I think NZ served that at some point,

QF served AKL-LAX with the 332, not NZ .
 
S75752
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 48):

QF served AKL-LAX with the 332, not NZ .

Oh.
...What happened to that? Maybe that would debunk an AA LAX-AKL. I mean, if a 332 couldn't fill then would a 788?

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos