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a380787
Posts: 4573
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 49):

...What happened to that? Maybe that would debunk an AA LAX-AKL. I mean, if a 332 couldn't fill then would a 788?

It wasn't a filling a problem. QF INTL was massively unprofitable back then and needed to cut something, so a 5th freedom tag sounded like a good place to start.

I'm still surprised the article thinks UA would go for SFO-AKL considering the numbers LAXIntl previously posted showing how tiny SFO-AKL is compared to LAX-AKL
 
azjubilee
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 24):

Be good to see a US carrier in AKL again though UA would surprise me a bit.

Hawaiian Airlines, very much a US carrier, has been serving AKL for 2 years! (after a bit of an absence). The service has been a success and increased flights could be on the horizon.
 
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NYPECO
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:21 pm

That would be great if it happens! It will make travelling to New Zealand a lot easier.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 50):

Quoting S75752 (Reply 49):

...What happened to that? Maybe that would debunk an AA LAX-AKL. I mean, if a 332 couldn't fill then would a 788?

It wasn't a filling a problem. QF INTL was massively unprofitable back then and needed to cut something, so a 5th freedom tag sounded like a good place to start.

I believe the A332 was also restricted so it couldn't operate with a full pax load. A 788 would far more reliably be able to operate the flight.
The flight was a hangover from when aircraft could not reach MEL-LAX, so the 743 operated MEL-AKL-LAX.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 50):
It wasn't a filling a problem. QF INTL was massively unprofitable back then and needed to cut something, so a 5th freedom tag sounded like a good place to start.

The route was said to be unprofitable so it was dropped.

It was one of the first routes on the chopping block as they neither had the right equipment or the desire to continue to continue to serve it.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 50):
I'm still surprised the article thinks UA would go for SFO-AKL considering the numbers LAXIntl previously posted showing how tiny SFO-AKL is compared to LAX-AKL

I tend to agree. I struggle to see where UA fits into the picture really on these routes.

With NZ in star, and both airlines having ATI, whats the point of adding to the existing services? NZ seems to be doing well as it is, with no real need to have another partner carrier supplement its services.

AA may well be a possibility from LAX but I guess we will wait and see.
 
OP3000
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 50):
I'm still surprised the article thinks UA would go for SFO-AKL considering the numbers LAXIntl previously posted showing how tiny SFO-AKL is compared to LAX-AKL

Chances are that it has more to do with yields from SFO vs LAX, as well as more feed at a larger fortress hub as opposed to a market like LAX where just about anyone has as much competitive advantage as UA.

Also with a 787 you don't need that much volume to get a good load factor as you would with the jumbos that were needed until very recently to fly the long distance.
 
Kashmon
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 48):

and 747's

QF has really become small compared to just 7 years ago...
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):

Delta/Virgin may not have the aircraft, but then also don't have the feed at AKL to benefit from the way AA would and Air NZ obviously does.

uh? how do you gather that?

first if Virgin were to start it, they are buddy buddy with NZ (who IIRC owns part of VA) So they would have tons of feed.
but more importantly I don't understand how Delta/Virgin have no feed but AA has feed? (QF flies AKL-SYD, BNE, MEL VA flies AKL-SYD, BNE, AKL, OOL, TBU, and RAR and APW)
 
atal17
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 50):

Can I get the link to those numbers. I've been trying to find that for ages, but I couldn't find it. Can I also know what's the demand like for PER-LAX?
 
commavia
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:31 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 57):
uh? how do you gather that?

first if Virgin were to start it, they are buddy buddy with NZ (who IIRC owns part of VA) So they would have tons of feed.

Again, absent Air NZ joining the existing Delta/Virgin ATI across the Pacific, what possible incentive would Air NZ have to help Virgin with a flight that directly competes with one of Air NZ's most important - and likely most profitable - routes? Why on earth would Air NZ do that? Would Air NZ likely interline? Sure - like they do with tons of airlines. But it seems fairly difficult - at least to me - to imagine that Air NZ would actively cooperate in helping a competitor - and that is what Virgin is, and would be, to Air NZ - on a route that directly overlays one of Air NZ's busiest routes.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 57):
but more importantly I don't understand how Delta/Virgin have no feed but AA has feed? (QF flies AKL-SYD, BNE, MEL VA flies AKL-SYD, BNE, AKL, OOL, TBU, and RAR and APW)

First off, between AKL and Australia, QANTAS has more flights and more seats to SYD, BNE and MEL than Virgin. And in any event - why on earth would Delta/Virgin want to dilute their existing nonstop LAX-SYD/BNE passengers by routing them through AKL just to fill up another flight to LAX? They'd have to dilute their own yields in these LAX-Australia nonstop markets, and it's hard to imagine why that would be worthwhile.

Secondly, there is more to feed in AKL than just trans-Tasman flights to places that already have nonstops to the U.S. QANTAS subsidiary Jetstar has a fairly robust domestic schedule out of AKL providing 2-way connectivity to multiple New Zealand points.

So would a hypothetical Delta/Virgin flight have literally zero feed? No. But it would have far less feed, and far less attractive feed (coming near-entirely from competitors) than a hypothetical AA/QANTAS flight..
 
zkncj
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:57 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 45):
to my knowledge - the two would still be prohibited from cooperating on scheduling or pricing, and would remain competitors.

Just really an matter of paper work signed by the right government parties, NZ is an controlling share holding in Virgin an has voting rights on the board.

Quoting commavia (Reply 59):
Again, absent Air NZ joining the existing Delta/Virgin ATI across the Pacific, what possible incentive would Air NZ have to help Virgin with a flight that directly competes with one of Air NZ's most important - and likely most profitable - routes? Why on earth would Air NZ do that? Would Air NZ likely interline? Sure - like they do with tons of airlines. But it seems fairly difficult - at least to me - to imagine that Air NZ would actively cooperate in helping a competitor - and that is what Virgin is, and would be, to Air NZ - on a route that directly overlays one of Air NZ's busiest routes.

Wouldn't count on the VA/DL partnership being around to stay, NZ (and SQ/EH) aren't happy with VA current loses so could pull that agreement any moment.

Quoting commavia (Reply 59):
Secondly, there is more to feed in AKL than just trans-Tasman flights to places that already have nonstops to the U.S. QANTAS subsidiary Jetstar has a fairly robust domestic schedule out of AKL providing 2-way connectivity to multiple New Zealand points.

Robust domestic schedule out of AKL, isn't correct I'd more call it an random advoc shedule. They only fly 4 routes from AKL Domestically and very limited flights.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1570
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:13 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 54):
With NZ in star, and both airlines having ATI, whats the point of adding to the existing services? NZ seems to be doing well as it is, with no real need to have another partner carrier supplement its services.

There is certainly some kind of competition going on. I just bought a business class ticket AKL-LAX-AKL on UA for about NZ$2500 less than NZ direct service the same days. OK, so I spend a few hours flying to Australia and back, but I figure I'm being paid about $200/hour for being asleep. Talk about power naps!
 
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NZ107
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):
Not sure it's "guaranteed," per se, but I agree that given the feed at LAX and JetStar connectivity in AKL, plus QANTAS' substantial marketing/FF presence in NZ, AA would stand a good chance with a 787 to LAX.

Ok, nothing's guaranteed.. But it's close enough to it. QF operated an A332 which was weight restricted so even though they had good loads, it was still inefficient. Take the 787 (or even the 772) which can easily do that distance with a full payload plus cheaper fuel than 5 years ago..

It could actually be a good thing for Air NZ too.. They have stopped innovating over the last few years but I feel like they need competition to differentiate their product again. Now's the time to do it too while fuel plays less of an impact on profits and there's growth to be had. They don't need a JQ factor.. They can operate it as a BA and QF codeshare.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: AusBT: American & United Eye Flights To AKL

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:57 am

Just to be absolutely clear, it would be illegal for VA and NZ to cooperate Trans-Pacific. They are, and must remain, competitors on the route. It is therefore accurate to say that VA will not have domestic feed to AKL. DL would have absolutely none whatsoever apart from VA services from Australia.

As to why it's illegal, and why that will never change? There is existing ATI between NZ and UA, and a JBA between VA and DL. A four way tie up would never, ever be approved.
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