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Beatyair
Topic Author
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:11 pm

Is there anything behind the maiden flight of the CS300 and American Airlines?

- Bombardier makes a video highlighting that they are using an American Airlines CRJ as the chase plane, when they
could be using something in there corporate line-up. Mighty big plane as a chaser.
- The also wanted to thank American Airline for the use of the plane.
- American Airline is highlighting the need for a 100 to 125 passenger airplane in there future.
- Republic has ordered 40 of these planes and they have not said who the flag will be. Has to be American or United, Delta
already has the 717.

[Edited 2015-03-02 12:03:39]
 
justplanenutz
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:48 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:25 pm

Honestly, if you look at the assembly line photo, AA CRJ900s are about all there is. So, I'm pretty sure this was more of what was on hand rather than something larger.

But, what the hey, AA should:

* Convert 50 of the 100 321 Neos to LRs to retire the last of 757s and 320s
* Upgauge all 100 of Max orders to 739 to retire to oldest 737-800s
* Order 100 CS300s to retire the last MD80s and E190s
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:31 pm

Those Republic frames are in dire need of a new home. AA taking them would certainly be an interesting development.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:53 pm

BBD are slipping AA their daughter's phone number, so to speak. Along with the best hours to talk to her.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:20 pm

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 1):
* Upgauge all 100 of Max orders to 739 to retire to oldest 737-800s

It might happen, but I don't see the need given the large A321 fleet and order portfolio. The 737-MAX8 will be a great airframe.

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 2):

Those Republic frames are in dire need of a new home. AA taking them would certainly be an interesting development.

Had the CSeries gotten off on a better food, those slots would be worth some dough given their likely very favorable prices and terms. As it is, it must be frustrating for Republic to watch that potential wither away in delays and a dearth of orders. It went from being a real asset of an order to being potentially a liability if they exercise it.

But yes, I'd love to see someone pick it up. Not "Crazy Jim's ULCC Inc" or "Ajax Leasing Partners" but a real airline with a real likelihood of taking delivery.

-Dave
 
flightsimer
Posts: 1180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 1):
* Convert 50 of the 100 321 Neos to LRs to retire the last of 757s and 320s
* Upgauge all 100 of Max orders to 739 to retire to oldest 737-800s
* Order 100 CS300s to retire the last MD80s and E190s

*why would they need A321Lr's to replace the older A320's from USAir?

* the oldest 737-800 is only 16 years old, they still have a lot of useful life in them.

* they already have their S80 replacement, it is the 737-800 and A319 and they have plenty of them on order to cover that segment and then some.

I don't see their being a need for the CS300 unless they want to replace their Brand new A319's with them.
 
justplanenutz
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:48 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 5):
why would they need A321Lr's to replace the older A320's from USAir?

50 LRs replace the last ~40 757s, 50 321 Neos replace ~ 50 320s

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 5):
* the oldest 737-800 is only 16 years old, they still have a lot of useful life in them.

9 isn't available until 2018, so that is 19 years for the 1st one and 24 for the last of the 77 originals (assuming 20 per year). AA is currently retiring younger MD80s. But, the point would be more to upgauge.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 5):
they already have their S80 replacement, it is the 737-800 and A319 and they have plenty of them on order to cover that segment and then some.

Don't think AA will be taking many more 319s. And, the idea would be that Bombardier made them a deal too good to pass up, sorta like Douglas did on the DC-9 Super-80s (as they were called then).
 
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cageyjames
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:08 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 5):
*why would they need A321Lr's to replace the older A320's from USAir?

US has been using the A321 to replace the 734s and 733s over the past years. The management team at US (now AA) really believes in the A321 over the A320 and A319. It's never been a 1:1 replacement though as US had a much smaller market than the new AA does. But I've heard people say that AA has converted their A319 order into A321 but I've seen no proof of it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised one bit if they did. Then there is a perfect need for the CS300 replacing the MD-80s.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2410
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

American Airlines And CS300

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:28 pm

The CS300 should be able to seat 135-141 pax in a F/Y+/Y layout, that should allow decent capacity and economics?
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2611
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:44 am

I dont think it was a fluke.. even if it was the only aircraft (which highly don't believe) you don't highlight the fact that the bird belongs to AA unless you are hinting at something.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:52 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 9):
I dont think it was a fluke.. even if it was the only aircraft (which highly don't believe) you don't highlight the fact that the bird belongs to AA unless you are hinting at something.

It could well have still belonged to Bombardier, or had it actually been delivered? Did it still have its Canadian test registration or the new AA N number?
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2611
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
It could well have still belonged to Bombardier, or had it actually been delivered? Did it still have its Canadian test registration or the new AA N number?

It still had canadian regs, but still who does a video solely on the chase plane?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1FYv_QCSMg
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1102
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
BBD are slipping AA their daughter's phone number, so to speak. Along with the best hours to talk to her.

And brought her around to meet the folks - I'm referring to the FTV sent on a visit to IND and DFW....

Although there has been no confirmation of anything, I think that there is something going on there...
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:56 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 12):

IND was for Republic Airways, though. No major AA presence at that visit. But like I said, those Republic orders have to go somewhere...
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1102
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 13):
IND was for Republic Airways, though. No major AA presence at that visit. But like I said, those Republic orders have to go somewhere...

I knew that IND was for Republic, but was of course referring to DFW. Do we have anyone on here who was on the ground that day in DFW who can shed some light on what it was doing there?
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2866
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:32 am

What would make sense for AA is Eagle operating CS100's

and then have the CS300 as a mainline jet. Eagle pilots

moving up to mainline flying could easily transition from the CS100

to the CS300. These would be great replacements for the 319ceo's

I doubt the new AA ever takes delivery of the 319neo, they're too in love

with the 321's now
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2611
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 15):
What would make sense for AA is Eagle operating CS100's

and then have the CS300 as a mainline jet. Eagle pilots

moving up to mainline flying could easily transition from the CS100

to the CS300. These would be great replacements for the 319ceo's

I doubt the new AA ever takes delivery of the 319neo, they're too in love

with the 321's now

Thats not going to happen, if CS100s were to wear AA titles, they will be flown by mainline. I agree that 319neo's probably wont make it to DFW. The C-series could be used to replace them and the US E190s.
 
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Polot
Posts: 12217
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
The CS300 should be able to seat 135-141 pax in a F/Y+/Y layout, that should allow decent capacity and economics?

That is a little optimistic, I would expect 130 max in an F/Y+/Y layout. AA's A319 only seat 128 as is, and that is with a rather small F cabin.
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2349
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 1):
Honestly, if you look at the assembly line photo, AA CRJ900s are about all there is. So, I'm pretty sure this was more of what was on hand rather than something larger.

Not that I think this means anything, but normally they would use a Global or Challenger of which they have plenty.

FWIW saw from someone on twitter today the MD80 will be retired by end of 2017.
 
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Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:36 am

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 1):
* Convert 50 of the 100 321 Neos to LRs to retire the last of 757s and 320s
* Upgauge all 100 of Max orders to 739 to retire to oldest 737-800s
* Order 100 CS300s to retire the last MD80s and E190s

I agree with converting at least a few A321neos to LRs.

They absolutely don't need the 737 MAX 9, since they will devote so much to the A321neo. Plus, why convert the best of the MAX to the worst? UA need to convert all their 737 MAX 9s to 8s and order the A321neo.

The CS300 could be useful for, not just American, but for the US3s and smaller airlines as well. I think 100 is a bit much, but still, it could be of use.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting beatyair (Thread starter):
Republic has ordered 40 of these planes and they have not said who the flag will be. Has to be American or United

Republic ordered those CSeries for themselves, to start a business of their own. This plan has since been scrapped, the order is in the air to say the least. I consider it not cancelled for the convenience of BBD only.

They were never intended for contracted regional flying and cannot be used for such under the current scope clauses.

American has a load of new Airbus A319 delivered and on order in that size segment and I would say it is extremely unlikely that they would complement those by ordering CS300.
Of the three US majors, the only we are at a slight chance to see the CSeries at for the time being is United.
 
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BlueSky1976
Posts: 1893
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 20):
UA need to convert all their 737 MAX 9s to 8s and order the A321neo.

I highly doubt United will order any Airbus narrowbody. They are in bed with Boeing. See "A321neo has issues" comment. Translation: "We're in for Boeings MoM plane when they launch it".
 
realsim
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 20):
American has a load of new Airbus A319 delivered and on order in that size segment and I would say it is extremely unlikely that they would complement those by ordering CS300.
Quoting cageyjames (Reply 7):
But I've heard people say that AA has converted their A319 order into A321 but I've seen no proof of it.

AA has converted all the A319s they've been able to to A321s. You can check it on the Airbus excel sheet of Orders and Deliveries and google for Parker's confirmation. The last of the 32 A319s that AA will have is due this second quarter, and then only A321s will be delivered.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3832
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:36 am

I love the way this plane looks. It has larger windows and more of them. I also love the 2x3 seating. I understand Bombardier is making the center seat an inch wider so people may now actually prefer it.
 
justplanenutz
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:48 am

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:38 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 19):
They absolutely don't need the 737 MAX 9, since they will devote so much to the A321neo. Plus, why convert the best of the MAX to the worst?

Don't view it as an A vs. B thing (738 vs. 320), but instead that AA is committed to purchase both and the 9Max has lower CASM than the 8Max. Yes, the 321neo will be more efficient on some routes, but the 9Max might work well on trunk routes where AA needs extra capacity but not legs. And, they would still have over 200 738s (after retiring the first 77) for routes where 160 (not 180) is the magic number.
 
Beatyair
Topic Author
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 20):
American has a load of new Airbus A319 delivered and on order in that size segment and I would say it is extremely unlikely that they would complement those by ordering CS300.
Of the three US majors, the only we are at a slight chance to see the CSeries at for the time being is United.

American Airlines has said that it is looking a 100 passenger aircraft from both Bombardier and Embrear.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2611
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
AA has converted all the A319s they've been able to to A321s. You can check it on the Airbus excel sheet of Orders and Deliveries and google for Parker's confirmation. The last of the 32 A319s that AA will have is due this second quarter, and then only A321s will be delivered.
Quoting beatyair (Reply 25):
American Airlines has said that it is looking a 100 passenger aircraft from both Bombardier and Embrear

Like i said before BBD's video was no fluke. BBD has been dating AA for a while, they want to go a step further. BBD basically made a marriage proposal to AA via that video.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 21):
I highly doubt United will order any Airbus narrowbody.

They are clearly vested in Boeing's 737NG line, but we have seen time and time again that airlines are willing to opt for both. The challenge is:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 21):
See "A321neo has issues" comment.

UA has a huge transatlantic presence with their 757 fleet and they would want an A321neo to fill that roll ideally. I think "has issues" means "has issues for us on the routes we'd like to place it on". I don't think they have issues with the airframe in any way, shape, or form. It's just that they already have the momentum of 737-900ER/737-MAX 9's so don't need to overlap that with the Airbus option.

I just think it's a mission issue and not a manufacturer issue. They aren't choosing the MAX9 over the A321neoLR. They are choosing wait-and-see over the A321neoLR. IMHO

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
AA has converted all the A319s they've been able to to A321s. You can check it on the Airbus excel sheet of Orders and Deliveries and google for Parker's confirmation. The last of the 32 A319s that AA will have is due this second quarter, and then only A321s will be delivered.

Parker loves him some 321's, that's for sure.

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 24):
Don't view it as an A vs. B thing (738 vs. 320), but instead that AA is committed to purchase both and the 9Max has lower CASM than the 8Max. Yes, the 321neo will be more efficient on some routes, but the 9Max might work well on trunk routes where AA needs extra capacity but not legs. And, they would still have over 200 738s (after retiring the first 77) for routes where 160 (not 180) is the magic number.

If the MAX9 was a little bigger and had a bit better performance, it would be a race. But it's not. For missions where the coming MAX9 is capable, it's will be a good aircraft. It's those missions that exceed it's practical capability that the LR A321neo will simply be the winner every time. For some, it will be a subfleet, which opens the door to 320neo's later. For others, it will be wholesale neo over MAX.

I agree, though, that the MAX9 will be great at what it's great at. (now that's profound.  )

-Dave
 
DALCE
Posts: 2036
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:29 pm

But there is a different topic about 737's and 321's and what suits best to UA's needs. Let's discuss 'bout the C-series and AA here  
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting dalce (Reply 28):
But there is a different topic about 737's and 321's and what suits best to UA's needs. Let's discuss 'bout the C-series and AA here  

LOL. I think I forgot what thread I was in. Thanks for the reminder.  

-Dave
 
lostsound
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:07 pm

Pilot contracts may complicate Republic's usage for the 40 CS300s they've ordered, but nothing is stopping them from leasing them to AA... Republic still seem to be interested in receiving the aircraft and AA is one of their prime customers. Throw in a dual visit to IND and DFW, and I don't think it's too presumptuous to say there could be a deal here. Unless out of left field, the CS100 was visiting WN which we know is very unlikely.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting Lostsound (Reply 30):

Pilot contracts may complicate Republic's usage for the 40 CS300s they've ordered, but nothing is stopping them from leasing them to AA... Republic still seem to be interested in receiving the aircraft and AA is one of their prime customers. Throw in a dual visit to IND and DFW, and I don't think it's too presumptuous to say there could be a deal here. Unless out of left field, the CS100 was visiting WN which we know is very unlikely.

I wonder if AA can contractually assume the order from Republic for consideration?

FWIW, I'm sure Republic could switch the order to the CS100 and those could be flown for American if they could fit in the scope.

-Dave
 
Beatyair
Topic Author
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:09 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:30 pm

And yes, after Bombardiers flew to Indianapolis to show Republics the aircraft, they flew directly to DFW to show it to somebody(they don't say). Hmmmmm. They did not go yet to Atlanta or Chicago.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5201
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:44 pm

Some time ago, then CEO Gerard Arpey was asked about the C-Series during an earnings call. IIRC, Arpey said that, on paper, the C-Series appeared to be a great plane and something AMR could look at in the future. The comments about the C-Series were more interesting than what Arpey had said about the 787.

Certainly, the Arpey/Hoton team at AMR had some interest in the C-Series, even though AMR executives had been "kicking the tires" on the Embrear 170/175/190/195.
 
BD500
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:57 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting beatyair (Reply 32):
And yes, after Bombardiers flew to Indianapolis to show Republics the aircraft, they flew directly to DFW to show it to somebody(they don't say). Hmmmmm. They did not go yet to Atlanta or Chicago.

Just saying, but it can also be Southwest in Dallas...
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 12):
And brought her around to meet the folks - I'm referring to the FTV sent on a visit to IND and DFW....

Although there has been no confirmation of anything, I think that there is something going on there...

LOL, don't read anything into it though. BBD, like anybody, tours their new equipment. NW was given an A380 demo. US was given a Q400 demo. It doesn't imply anything other than "hello valued customer, take a look at our new baby," and managment says "okay, very nice thank you for visiting."
 
KD5MDK
Posts: 834
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 31):
FWIW, I'm sure Republic could switch the order to the CS100 and those could be flown for American if they could fit in the scope.

There's no way a CS100 fits inside AA's scope clause to be flown by contracted pilots. It would be mainline.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:43 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 36):
There's no way a CS100 fits inside AA's scope clause to be flown by contracted pilots. It would be mainline.

Ok, cool. Thanks.

-Dave
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:12 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 22):
AA has converted all the A319s they've been able to to A321s.

That's true... and the A319s were said to be for long thin routes IIRC. Okay, you got me convinced to see a chance for the CSeries.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting AFCJETS (Reply 23):
I understand Bombardier is making the center seat an inch wider so people may now actually prefer it.

A slightly wider middle seat isn't new. That's been done quite often in the past. Nobody prefers a middle seat, regardless if it's an inch or so wider.
 
KD5MDK
Posts: 834
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:04 am

Now if it was 6 inches wider...  
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: American Airlines And CS300

Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:56 pm

I would love me some CSeries at AA.
It looks comfortable to fly, and it would be cool to fly on something I helped power.

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