Robbie86
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DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:04 pm

A pretty infested conflict between the pilots union and the board of DY's subsidary Air Norwegian Norway has escaleted quite a bit.

70 pilots has been on a strike for a while, the management claims it is illegal, and now the board of DY is threataning to to to court to put the company in bankruptcy. This action leave the pilots with two options. Lose their jobs or start working for the company from where DY's hiring theirs (a US based one).

"The company called an emergency board meeting on Monday morning which the Norwegian media has speculated will lead to the company filing to declare its Norwegian Air Norway subsidiary bankrupt."

http://www.thelocal.no/20150302/norw...s-slam-bankruptcy-as-union-busting
 
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enilria
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:46 pm

Is this the unit that flies to the USA? Or is this another sub?
 
Robbie86
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting Enilria (Reply 1):

Another one. The one that's flying in Scandinavia.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting Robbie86 (Thread starter):
70 pilots has been on a strike for a while, the management claims it is illegal, and now the board of DY is threataning to to to court to put the company in bankruptcy. This action leave the pilots with two options. Lose their jobs or start working for the company from where DY's hiring theirs (a US based one).

A third option, if this were US bankruptcy law, is for the court to seize the company from management, install an interim CEO, and let the company hash it all out in court. Unfortunately, very few bankruptcy judges have used this nuclear option against a bankrupt company, but for bankruptcy to have any meaning, that's what should happen.
 
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thekorean
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 3):

I am pretty sure bankruptcy in Norway means liquidation but I need Norwegians here to explain.
 
vulindlela744
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:58 pm

This is sad indeed. My good friend is a captain at Norwegian (Scandinavian unit) and is disgusted with what Bjorn Kjos is doing to this once great company. Good Luck to all the pilots on strike. Hope you win.
 
bgm
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:08 am

Quoting vulindlela744 (Reply 5):
Hope you win.

By winning, you mean jobless?
Less praying, more hand washing.
 
AF022
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:12 am

Quoting vulindlela744 (Reply 5):
this once great company

Isn't DY too young to have a storied history?
 
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Miami
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:19 am

Sad if true. Hope they can pull through.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 1):
Is this the unit that flies to the USA? Or is this another sub?


No, it's another one.

Quoting af022 (Reply 7):

Isn't DY too young to have a storied history?


I guess that's why they have historical people on their tails.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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larshjort
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 4):

If it is anything like Denmark the Court will appoint a lawyer to take control of the Company who will then decide the best course of action. The ultimate goal is to get as much Money to the creditors as possible. This can include continuing to operate. In Denmark this happened when Cimber Sterling folded. They operated for 14 days before the license was sold to another Company.

/Lars
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pa747sp
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:22 am

Isn't an airline publicly talking about bankruptcy a pretty sure fire way to ensure it does go bankrupt? Who will buy tickets on an airline that might not be operating tomorrow?
Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
 
Someone83
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 9):
If it is anything like Denmark the Court will appoint a lawyer to take control of the Company who will then decide the best course of action. The ultimate goal is to get as much Money to the creditors as possible. This can include continuing to operate. In Denmark this happened when Cimber Sterling folded. They operated for 14 days before the license was sold to another Company.
Quoting pa747sp (Reply 10):
Isn't an airline publicly talking about bankruptcy a pretty sure fire way to ensure it does go bankrupt? Who will buy tickets on an airline that might not be operating tomorrow?
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 2):
Another one. The one that's flying in Scandinavia.

It is the company where the pilots in Scandinavia are employed. The actual aircraft and the flight attendants belong to another company, as well all the hired pilots through the misc. agencies
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 11):
It is the company where the pilots in Scandinavia are employed. The actual aircraft and the flight attendants belong to another company, as well all the hired pilots through the misc. agencies

Those nuances will probably be lost on the traveling public. They will simply hear Norwegian and bankruptcy, then book elsewhere. Who is going to risk their vacation or important meeting with this unknown floating out there.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
aircatalonia
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:41 am

Quoting Robbie86 (Thread starter):
Lose their jobs or start working for the company from where DY's hiring theirs (a US based one).

How does the airline benefit from hiring through an American company? Do other European low cost airlines do this?
 
Andy33
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:00 am

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 13):
How does the airline benefit from hiring through an American company? Do other European low cost airlines do this?

Norwegian seems to see tax advantages in having a tangled web of companies and contracts.
I know of European LCCs that hire through European specialist companies (Ryanair has pilots that are contracted through Brookfield Aviation, but Brookfield is a British company) but none other than Norwegian that go outside Europe for this.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:13 am

This company is rotten to the core, a friend of a friend is one of these pilots, basically pilots are being outsourced, they will no longer be direct hires of the airline. They did this to the flight attendants a while back, I don't know whay anyone would fly them, I don't. SK must be loving this.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:24 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
SK must be loving this.

SK aren't exactly having a great time of it at the moment... Danish staff have been going on illegal strikes leading to court action.

Basically, until this all settles down don't fly either SK or DY to and from Scandinavia... Your travel plans won't be guaranteed.
Base: BRU
 
kl911
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
basically pilots are being outsourced, they will no longer be direct hires of the airline

What's wrong with that, happens at more airlines, and certainly in other industries.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:22 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 17):

What's wrong with that, happens at more airlines, and certainly in other industries.

It's pure greed. The companies benefits from it but it is disastrous for the staff.

They loose all employment security, gets less paid and they can be sacked from one day to another.
In Sweden it is sometimes referred to as "sms-anställning" (text message employment).
"Employees" get a text message in the morning from the employee where it
will say something like that you have one hour to show up at this or that company.

It also means that (at least in Sweden) employees can't borrow money, they can't plan
their life since they sometimes don't know when or where they will work.

Read this article and things might get a bit clearer.

[Edited 2015-03-03 02:25:00]
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
CPH-R
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:23 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 17):
What's wrong with that, happens at more airlines, and certainly in other industries.

I think the general worry is that it's becoming or will become a race to the bottom, when outsourcing companies have to compete for a contract. Think US regionals flying for the US majors.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:40 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 19):
I think the general worry is that it's becoming or will become a race to the bottom, when outsourcing companies have to compete for a contract.

Well how does ground handling work, or engineering ??
Do any airlines in Europe perform ground handling outside their main hub? BA even has outsourced below the wing at LGW. It is all bid for every 3 years and the cheapest provider gets the job. Why should pilots be different?
I do line maintenance. There are 5 companies here that provide line maintenance to major airlines. It is all bid for and the cheapest gets the job. We do safety same as pilots, so why do they work for the airline?
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:45 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 20):
t is all bid for every 3 years and the cheapest provider gets the job

if Company A offers a cheaper offer then company B and C, it means that they somehow
have smaller costs then B and C. Then three years later the B or C might have the cheapest offer.

The question is how they are getting there? The answer is by cutting corners,
by offering worse deals and salaries to their employees and etc.

The Swedish Rail and road authority (trafikverket) have used the same principles for
their procurements for maintenance for the Swedish railway.

The results are very clear. There are delays because of failing systems almost every week
because the companies who have won the maintenance contracts, made so cheap
offers that they cannot do the job properly. So they deliberately cut corners and
not doing the job properly because that would mean that they would loose money because the
costs would be higher then what their offer said.

We saw a similar situation last summer when Swedish transport workers went on a strike
because a train company (DSB), that had won a procurement for operating Öresundståg,
had to sack allot of workers and then re-hire them through an external
employment/worker resource company because otherwise they wouldn't manage to
get the costs down to the level they had in their offers.

Imo this is a dangerous path since eventually, one way or another, safety of
the passengers will be compromised.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:00 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 21):
Imo this is a dangerous path since eventually, one way or another, safety of
the passengers will be compromised.

I don't believe this applies to aircraft.
What does happen is that when the aircraft breaks down, there is no pool of mechanics sitting there waiting to mend it. They are somewhere else.
In Sweden SAS has mechanics at ARN and GOT. If a plane breaks down at LLA, a mechanic flies up on the next flight to fix it and the passengers wait. To base a mechanic at LLA costs money, and the ticket price would go up. Would you pay more for a SAS ticket because they had a mechanic at LLA? No you would fly Norwegian. The LCCs have brought down the price, but the service level has gone down too.
 
galleypower
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:40 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 6):
By winning, you mean jobless?

There is more to live than take it or leave it. People died fighting for the privileges we all are enjoying now. Including you. And yes I, too, hope they win, especially fighting DY.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 17):

It's simply wrong, Norway has spent a lot of time and effort building up a system where everyone gets a fair shake of the stick then along comes a doshbag like Koss who screws with the system, forcing down salaries and benefits whilst shopping around for the cheapest staff to fly his planes. What benefit is this to Norway, there isn't any, high earning, high tax paying Norwegians replaced by low paid contract workers from the US and Asia are of no benefit to Norwegian society.

As many said in the Norwegian threads about them hiring Thai's via Singapore to work international flights, it was only a matter of time before Koss had a go at the same for short haul and domestic flights.

It's social dumping, nothing more nothing less.
 
a320fan
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:54 pm

Let's just say this company has joined QR on my no fly list.

Rob, what are the attitudes of the average Norwegian or the local media on this ?
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
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Polot
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:17 pm

This airline's structure is so convoluted. So they have a subsidiary that pilots are employed to (DY Norway) that operate aircraft of another subsidiary? All while having another subsidiary for their long haul operations. Are all of their European short haul pilots part of DY Norway or is this just the scandanvian based ones (and if it is the latter, what company do the other pilots technically work for). Are some pilots contracted out while others (these pilots) are not?
 
S75752
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:30 pm

Quoting Robbie86 (Thread starter):
A pretty infested conflict between the pilots union and the board of DY's subsidary Air Norwegian Norway has escaleted quite a bit.

Okay so, is this the European (short haul) branch of DY? Or some even smaller subsidiary? Some of the above posts have me confused.
 
vulindlela744
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:04 pm

Just spoke with my friend who works for DY that all 700 pilots by tmrw will be on strike. They are worried. Sad to hear.
 
b747400erf
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 17):
What's wrong with that, happens at more airlines, and certainly in other industries.




At what airline will you find outsourced pilots flying all of a different airline's fleet?

[Edited 2015-03-03 07:13:26]
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting vulindlela744 (Reply 28):
Just spoke with my friend who works for DY that all
700 pilots by tmrw will be on strike. They are worried. Sad to hear.

According to Swedish televsion, all 800 cabin employees will be layed off tomorrow
if they conflict haven't been solved by Wednesday morning.
Also some Swedish pilots are expected to perform a sympathy strike as well so I guess
that the air travel in Scandinavia might be quite disrupted the nearest couple of days.

Quoting SVT Nyheter:
Flybolaget Norwegian permitterar 800 kabinanställda från onsdag morgon om inte
konflikten med piloterna har lösts innan dess.

Ett 70-tal norska piloter har sedan i lördags gått ut i strejk i strid för ett kollektivavtal och
facket hotar med att från och med midnatt ta ut ytterligare 650 piloter, från Norge,
Danmark och Sverige, i strejk.

Det skulle isåfall innebära att en stor del av Norwegians flygplan blir stående på marken.
En rad svenska piloter väntas också ansluta sig i en sympatistrejk i morgon kväll.

Marit Lindén, ordförande i Norwegian Kabinförening, säger till den norska sajten
E24 att permitteringsåtgärden inte var oväntad, med tanke på det läge man befinner sig i.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
TheSonntag
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:39 pm

 
lpdal
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:43 pm

Their operation in FLL is a complete disaster. I went night-spotting the other evening at FLL, and the passengers on the inbound leg to LGW were camping in Terminal 3. Literally, with blankets and stuff, I think their flight was canceled and DY's policy is only to provide a $160 voucher. Otherwise, you're on your own for IRROPS hotel accommodations.

Other than that, it's sad to see the company doing so poorly. For once, we finally had nonstop service to Europe from FLL. The flights may leave in the wee hours of the morning, but it's something. Condor only flies here during the summer.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
S75752
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:49 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 32):
Other than that, it's sad to see the company doing so poorly. For once, we finally had nonstop service to Europe from FLL. The flights may leave in the wee hours of the morning, but it's something. Condor only flies here during the summer.

My same feelings about their OAK operation - I really like what they strive to do, to provide inexpensive nonstop service to link two city pairs never before linked like that. Even better, with brand spanking new 787's rather than hand-me-down aircraft.

I hope to fly them sometime this year out of OAK, otherwise I don't know if they'll still be around. I really like their ambition, but it just doesn't seem sustainable.

I was optimistic about a BCN hub and OAK-LGW in the near future, but this is very troubling and saddening.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 20):
It is all bid for and the cheapest gets the job.

Let's think about outsourcing for a minute.

The reason it's cheaper to outsource is almost exclusively that staff are paid less and given worse benefits. (Occasionally an outsourcing vendor might have particular management expertise that allows it to operate with lower non-staff costs, but that's a tiny part of why outsourcing is cheaper.) Particularly in a non-union environment, there's no fundamental reason that a company can't just pay its own staff less, rather than hiring someone else to do it. The reason to outsource rather than just drastically cut pay is purely so that managers of the outsourcing company don't have to tell their employees they're getting a pay cut. It's a strategy to bypass social norms that would ordinarily make the cost-cutting manager feel guilty and go through a lot of awkwardness. Beyond that, it has no real business purpose.

I'm not saying we should ban it -- I also like a free market -- but we should recognize it as the cowardly move it is.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 34):

Indeed. I do not say outsourcing is bad always, but if, employees should get the same payment. Outsourcing purely by reducing laboug costs is doing no benefit to the society.
 
NDiesel
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:19 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
SK must be loving this.

Things weren't much better for SK this weekend at CPH. I lost an important interview with Sigourney Weaver in Berlin thanks to that strike. Being a sci-fi fan I took my Khan-like wrath out on the poor ground crew who were equally angry at the Danish SK-cabin crew. Today SK announces that negotiations are done. The DK cabin crew union disagree, so worst case scenario is another strike. If coupled with a strike at DY the scandic travellers are in for a terrible time aviation-wise.

On the other hand, should Murphy's Law apply to DY and they go belly up because of this strike, I fear we'll be back in the days where SAS Braathens basically had monopoly in the Scandinavian market. And for customers, that wasn't good.
Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with aviation
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 35):
Indeed. I do not say outsourcing is bad always

I agree, in Sweden it's quite common that for some jobs you are recruited by a worker resource
company with a fixed placing at one of their customers but that the employment
is transferred to the customer after a certain time (usually after 6 months or so)
when the customer sees that the new employee is doing a good job.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
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b727fa
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 29):
At what airline will you find outsourced pilots flying all of a different airline's fleet?

I believe HiFly has only mgt pilots on payroll. The rest are leased. It's the same with cabin crew. I was with AeroPro leased to HiFly assigned to the Arik Air contract.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
silentbob
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:27 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 34):
I'm not saying we should ban it -- I also like a free market -- but we should recognize it as the cowardly move it is.

I usually go with unethical or immoral, but cowardly works just fine as well
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 27):
Okay so, is this the European (short haul) branch of DY?

Yes, but they also have Swedish Pilots, and they also have pilots based in Helsinki, except the Helsinki pilots come from Lithuania and position over to work every time, and then operate flights from ARN.
And of course there are BCN based pilots.
They are as complicated as Ryanair and Easyjet.
 
S75752
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 40):

They are as complicated as Ryanair and Easyjet.

It seems like the European LCC market is doing well, just like the LCC market in the USA. What is it that sets Norwegian apart from the others in such a bad way, that causes them to fall to bankruptcy?

The one thing I keep seeing brought up is outsourcing - is that really the number one thing?
 
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Mortyman
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RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting a320fan (Reply 25):
what are the attitudes of the average Norwegian or the local media on this ?

Divided, but I'd say that the airline has the upper hand at the moment. Alot of the media and experts in the Field of employment and Finance beleave that Norwegian simply cannot allow the unions to get too much hands on the Wheel Control over the airline. Basically the union demands an agreement With a different Company than the one they are employed by, wich acording to Norwegian is totally out of the question.

People are apparently divided at the head Office too. Basically pilots and cabincrew against the rest.

Norwegain must cut costs after the company went with hefty losses in 2014. The company wants pay freeze for the plots, cuts in pension and cuts in costly insurance.
Parat / Norwegian pilot union is more than anything else keen to get a new collective agreement that is linked to the parent company Norwegian Air Shuttle (NAS), instead of NAN where they are employed.
Parat says they will not negotiate unless negotiation is about the collective agreement.

The pilots wants a common collective agreement for all the Scandinavian pilots, and that these should be employed in the parent company.

Norwegian believes that the pilots demands will result in "commercial management rights", something the management says they can not possibly say yes to.

Further more

* Pensions: Norwegian want the pilots to go over to defined contribution pensions. They believe the current scheme is a special scheme - both in English and that it is not in line with the development of society in general - and that it is too expensive for the company. Parat says that pilots have been willing to discuss plans with the company.
• Number of days: Norwegian wants to introduce a "ceiling" 144 days off per year, with five week vacation. According to the company the average is currently 188 days off per year including 26 so-called "Pick days."
• Greater flexibility: Norwegian wants to remove the scheme more pilots today, with five days at work followed by four days off. They also want more flexibility in every "work block."
• Salary: Norwegian wants pilots to be covered by a general wage freeze in the company, not including lønnsstigen ensuring pilots an increase of 2.5 percent per year per year.
• Insurance: The company wants that the so-called "Loss of License» - insurance reduced from 60G to 30G. This is an insurance policy that kicks in if a pilot health reasons can not fly more. This was adjusted up a few years ago, and management believes that the company provides substantial additional costs. 60G corresponds about 5.3 million NOK.

http://e24.no/privat/rettigheter/det...ian-og-pilotene-uenige-om/23402458

[Edited 2015-03-03 08:57:28]

[Edited 2015-03-03 08:59:25]
 
idlewildchild
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:38 pm

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 34):
I'm not saying we should ban it -- I also like a free market -- but we should recognize it as the cowardly move it is.
Quoting silentbob (Reply 39):
I usually go with unethical or immoral, but cowardly works just fine as well

This all aligns to the sucking sound of wealth going up to the 1% and the middle class being hammered everywhere. I'm lucky to be a partner in the firm and it sickens me even how my fellow partners want their profit ahead of possible benefits for staff. Something is fundamentally wrong socially, and frankly, it started in 1980 when the US tax rate for the very wealthy went from upwards of 80% to 28%. There was supposed to be all this trickle down money when in reality it consolidated the wealth in the select hands of few and unleashed a spirit of greed that is still bouncing throughout the world.

I see this whole DY mess as just another indicator that we've lost our way in business and the lowest common denominator is controlling decisions by the few fortunate enough to have the power to make the decisions.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6164
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 41):
It seems like the European LCC market is doing well, just like the LCC market in the USA. What is it that sets Norwegian apart from the others in such a bad way, that causes them to fall to bankruptcy?

DY itself is doing fine (I guess). What we're dealing with here, is a subsidiary company that only exists on paper, and only exists to hire pilots that flies to/from Scandinavian countries. The pilot union and the parent company can't come to an agreement on a contrat, so now the CEO of the parent company is threatening to declare the subsidiary company bankrupt, which will allow DY to fire 200 pilots and use an outsourcing company (OSM Aviation) to offer the other 500 pilots a contract to fly for DY. Presumably resulting in a lot more, namely 900 hours per year, the maximum allowed under EU regulations, compared to the 700 hours they fly currently.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 34):
The reason it's cheaper to outsource is almost exclusively that staff are paid less and given worse benefits.

Also easier to fire people.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 42):
Basically the union demands an agreement With a different Company than the one they are employed by, wich acording to Norwegian is totally out of the question.

Except they're demanding an agreement with the company that they, in practice, do their work for. Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7083
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 32):
I went night-spotting the other evening at FLL, and the passengers on the inbound leg to LGW were camping in Terminal 3. Literally, with blankets and stuff, I think their flight was canceled and DY's policy is only to provide a $160 voucher. Otherwise, you're on your own for IRROPS hotel accommodations.

Makes you wonder if they treat the crew any better?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting IDLEWILDCHILD (Reply 43):
This all aligns to the sucking sound of wealth going up to the 1% and the middle class being hammered everywhere.

It's only class warfare when the poor fight back.
 
s4popo
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:36 am

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 35):
Outsourcing purely by reducing laboug costs is doing no benefit to the society.

Not true. It may provide no benefit to employees, but it certainly provides a benefit to consumers in the form or lower prices. Everyone complains about low wages, but nobody wants to pay more for goods and services. It's simple math people.

Anyone that shops at WalMart and buys $6 shoes, doesn't have the right to complain about all of the manufacturing jobs lost to China or other Asian countries. The same applies to all industries.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: DY Norway Might File For Bankruptcy Tomorrow (3/3)

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 38):

I believe HiFly has only mgt pilots on payroll. The rest are leased. It's the same with cabin crew. I was with AeroPro leased to HiFly assigned to the Arik Air contract.

As Hifly are a charter and ACMI carrier that is not what I meant. Skywest pilots do not fly mainland United aircraft. I was pointing out this is what Norwegian is trying to do, make all their pilots flying Norwegian airplanes a contractor like Skywest flying United 747's.

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