PlanesNTrains
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 42):
The Max 9 indeed has some big limitations. However, it will be fine for the vast majority of UA's network and its considered cheaper to operate and I'm sure they got a good deal.

True. And to a lesser extent, the same has been said in the past with the 757 vs A321. Now, of course, that gap has narrowed, but the point is that for some airlines and missions, an aircraft simply isn't going to always be the perfect fit.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 43):
We shouldn't put him near a microphone, especially when he can't back up his claim.

"Can't" back up his claim, or "didn't" back up his claim. Big difference.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 43):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 23):
"UA just makes wrong choices", which is patently false.

I guess what's why the merger has gone so smoothly.  

Well said.

Uh, it's an irrelevent statement. When it comes to purchasing aircraft, as complex as it might be in analysing the options, at the end of the day it's largely a numbers game. A merger is far, far, far more than just spreadsheets. I can buy a car and make an informed decision. I probably couldn't manage an automaker for long at all.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 44):
Clearly, the current 737NG doesn't compare to the 757, since AA decided to replace 757s on flights to the U.S. ski resorts with A319s. AA management descibed the A319 has having outstanding performance to high altitude airports.

AA doesn't have the 737-700. They do have the A319.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):
I believe the 321NEOLR is better than the MAX-9 by quite a bit in terms of performance & likely cargo but its still not a direct replacement for the 757. It's closer than the MAX-9, but still not there.

So.................................... all this back and forth about what an idiot this guy is for saying that the A321 has issues in filling the 757 sweet spot........................................and you agree with him?

lolololol

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
catiii
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 8):
field performance at some of the European airports

Not sure this is going to impact UA, unless we're talking about the LR.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):
I don't work in the industry

Whoa wait a second...you don't? Given the absolute and definitive statements you've made in other threads on things like pilot training at United and which training syllabi were used I would have thought you did.
 
a380787
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 49):
It is becoming increasingly harder and harder to take you seriously

That's rich, coming from someone as unbiased as this :

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 31):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 23):
You already made up your mind to criticize UA

Which is something I started doing YEARS ago...

You're predetermined to criticize UA, and yet still offer your "opinion" about UA and pretend it's objective analysis ?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:12 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 41):
Which has what to do with this thread?

It's not a UA thread until he has repeated something irrelevant and uninformed?

Quoting Polot (Reply 35):
Delta has long since stopped caring about its HVFs (just look at what it has done, and continues to do, to Skymiles) and thus has not yet ordered any Neos (or Maxes).

What on earth is the connection between frequent flyers and the NEO?

Quoting a380787 (Reply 46):
hahaha i'm laughing so hard right now. Wake me up when you know which planet you're breathing from.

   The famously generous, non-devalued, EZ 2 redeem Skymile 
Quoting a380787 (Reply 33):
if you're gonna be an armchair CEO and challenge a real CFO, at least have data to backup your accusations instead of parroting the "keep climbing" brainwash spin from your company's PR department.

Don't waste your breath.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 50):
The airplane is in such a corner of its operating capability to get to the 757 range, that it may not match what United needs

   Less than 10% of all 757 departures are over 3000 miles today. Some of those will be upgauged, some will be canceled, and some may be ripe for a 757 replacement--but that will be a very small number compared to today's fleet, and the last thing most airlines want is a small mission specific subfleet operating at the very corner of its envelope. It's basically just recreating the problems of today's 757--hence why it continues to be parked in large numbers.

Quoting catiii (Reply 52):
Whoa wait a second...you don't? Given the absolute and definitive statements you've made in other threads on things like pilot training at United and which training syllabi were used I would have thought you did.

 rotfl 

[Edited 2015-03-03 12:14:11]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 53):
That's rich, coming from someone as unbiased as this :

I'm not telling other users they're "brainwashed" and asking "what planet are you from." This a professional website filled with people who know what they're talking about and who have opinions about aviation and the airline industry.


Quoting a380787 (Reply 53):
You're predetermined to criticize UA, and yet still offer your "opinion" about UA and pretend it's objective analysis ?

Is there a problem with that, sir?  

[Edited 2015-03-03 12:17:01]
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 50):
The airplane is in such a corner of its operating capability to get to the 757 range, that it may not match what United needs. I believe those are the type of issues that United is referring to. It is a bit hard to explain, but near the edge of its range, the 757 has more flexibility when it comes to fuel tank volume, baggage, and cargo capacity than the A321neolr does. We also know how much grief that United gets for the 757 occasional fuel stop, so it may take some further refining for Airbus to get the A321neolr to where United wants it for transatlantic flying.

Perish___the___thought.  
Quoting catiii (Reply 52):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):
I don't work in the industry

Whoa wait a second...you don't? Given the absolute and definitive statements you've made in other threads on things like pilot training at United and which training syllabi were used I would have thought you did.

Maybe he did but has quit or been terminated?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
a380787
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54):
It's not a UA thread until he has repeated something irrelevant and uninformed?

Like x 1000. There are 3 things that bring out the worst of humanity - power, corruption, and UA threads.

Quoting catiii (Reply 52):

Whoa wait a second...you don't? Given the absolute and definitive statements you've made in other threads on things like pilot training at United and which training syllabi were used I would have thought you did.

Considering his signature footnote line :

"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA

.... and insists on having absolutely no ties, links, or connections to that airline. LMFAO.
 
tommy767
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 49):
It is becoming increasingly harder and harder to take you seriously   

Yep.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 51):
lolololol

Comprehension problems? It's not an exact 757 replacement but it doesn't have "Issues" like Rainey wants people to believe. That is where I think he sounds like an idiot.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 57):
.... and insists on having absolutely no ties, links, or connections to that airline. LMFAO.

I don't. And really, you shouldn't be lumping in professions on this thread.

DL has higher revenue, better systemwide on-time ratings, and less DOT complaints than United. They are the airline I choose for those reasons, that is all. A signoff should make no difference.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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Polot
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:23 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54):
What on earth is the connection between frequent flyers and the NEO?

There is absolutely no connection. I was just pointing out that DL has not ordered any NEOs while mocking certain statements and innuendos made earlier in the thread.
 
a380787
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:28 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 58):

I don't. And really, you shouldn't be lumping in professions on this thread.

Don't worry, you aren't professional enough (in any sense) for me to lump into the thread.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 58):

DL has higher revenue, better systemwide on-time ratings, and less DOT complaints than United. They are the airline I choose for those reasons, that is all. A signoff should make no difference.

And yet NONE of those metrics relate to why UA's new fleet choices are good or bad. No one cares which airlines you chooses, but your absolute poor judgement is showing when you blindly criticize other airlines with no data or facts to back you up.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 59):
There is absolutely no connection. I was just pointing out that DL has not ordered any NEOs while mocking certain statements and innuendos made earlier in the thread.

They'll pick up some used ones in 2035   
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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AA777223
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 50):
As marketed, the A321neoLR with the three aux tanks has about 500 miles more range than the 737-MAX-9. With the three aux tanks, it is going to be a little limited on cargo capacity. So far, UA has not had an interest in putting auxiliary tanks on the 737-900ER or MAX9, although that is also an option. Some airlines are using auxiliary tanks on the A321 already Realistically the range difference if equipped with aux tanks puts the airplanes within about 300 miles of each other.

Airbus is using 3 aux tanks in order to market the A321neoLR as having the same marketing range as a 757 (both 4100nm). The 3 aux tanks add 15,000lbs of fuel, however MTOW is only going up by 7,000lbs (some of which will be used by the additional empty weight). The A320 & A321 can be fuel volume limited in some situations, so the extra fuel is beneficial. The problem with the auxiliary tanks is that cargo volume gets limited and weight and balance is even more difficult. There are some center of gravity problems with the auxiliary tanks that affect the cabin and galley configuration.

The airplane is in such a corner of its operating capability to get to the 757 range, that it may not match what United needs. I believe those are the type of issues that United is referring to. It is a bit hard to explain, but near the edge of its range, the 757 has more flexibility when it comes to fuel tank volume, baggage, and cargo capacity than the A321neolr does. We also know how much grief that United gets for the 757 occasional fuel stop, so it may take some further refining for Airbus to get the A321neolr to where United wants it for transatlantic flying.


I'll admit I stopped trying to read this thread in the ~40s reply range, as it had decended in to childish name calling. So, if I say what has already been said, forgive me. I would hate to see this thread closed, because I think it is a very interesting topic.

I do think Rainey isn't perfect (I am one of his 'overentitled elites,' after all). However, when he said the A321NEO has issues, I think he was referring to the aircraft in context of what UA needs, not necessarily, in general. As has been said here, UA uses their 757s to the extreme envelope of their capabilities. As someone said above, the A321 is at its extreme max ability stretch, while the 757 was essentially a scaled down widebody. When you take an overperformer, and it struggles on the missions you place it (as is seen by the occasional diversions for UAs TransAt missions), then it is conceivable that a maxed out frame will suffer even more. UA operates in the highest corner of the envelope. The A321NEO LR will replace the 757 on 98% of missions. Unfortunately, UA uses them on the max ~5% of missions. THe LR could replace it on some, not all. At to that, that since UA has chosen MAX over NEO (which suits their network fine for how they intend to use it, despite the extreme vitriol over the decision seen here), it would be an oddball subfleet.

I see why he said what he said. I think the way the article quotes it is misleading. I wasn't surprised by anything here except the no 777X xomment - but It doesn't seem unreasonable either given how much he kept the door open and the A35Js coming.      

[Edited 2015-03-03 12:57:49]

[Edited 2015-03-03 13:03:14]
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 58):
Comprehension problems? It's not an exact 757 replacement but it doesn't have "Issues" like Rainey wants people to believe. That is where I think he sounds like an idiot.

But the fact that it isn't a straight-across 757 replacement MAY BE THE ISSUE.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
codc10
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:54 pm

UAL has mentioned internally that they would like to move away from 757 service to continental Europe within the next 18-24 months and begin to isolate them to the British Isles, where reliability is not as much of a concern. Part of this strategy involves retrofitting the remaining three-cabin 763ERs to the 76E standard and taking additional 787 deliveries, as any refleeting needs to balance between replacing existing issues and expansion to new markets/frequencies.

United knows the 752 is not the right airplane for EWR-TXL/ARN/OSL/BCN/MAD, etc., and in time, we will probably see upgauges.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:55 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 62):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 63):
But the fact that it isn't a straight-across 757 replacement MAY BE THE ISSUE.

   This is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you!
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:03 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 65):
  This is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you!

It has been said repeatedly, but fallen on deaf ears.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jayunited
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 50):
As marketed, the A321neoLR with the three aux tanks has about 500 miles more range than the 737-MAX-9. With the three aux tanks, it is going to be a little limited on cargo capacity. So far, UA has not had an interest in putting auxiliary tanks on the 737-900ER or MAX9, although that is also an option. Some airlines are using auxiliary tanks on the A321 already Realistically the range difference if equipped with aux tanks puts the airplanes within about 300 miles of each other.

I did read your entire post and you brought up some very interesting and valid points and problems UA currently faces with the 757 TATL operation during certain times of the year. So my question is with the aux tanks on an A321neoLR could that aircraft cover all the international flight the 757 now flies without having to make a fuel stop?
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:21 pm

I really can't see what all the excitement is all about. The A321LR and the 739-ER are different planes. While they overlap in some areas, they are quite different in others.

No one aircraft is going to be all things to all airlines, so what's wrong with one airline executive essentially saying that one particular aircraft doesn't have all the performance characteristics they are looking for, in a particular role?

Lots of criteria go into buying decisions where billions of dollars are at stake, so it seems silly to me that people with nothing at stake essentially call those making the expensive decisions, idiots.

So the A321LR doesn't suit UA's needs....so what? That's not necessarily an indictment of the A321LR, it's merely an assessment of the aircraft in relation to what UA is looking for.
What the...?
 
ukoverlander
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:29 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Thread starter):
Anyone know what issues UA sees with the A321neo ?

Could it be that:

a) The A321 is just too cheap to operate. Why pay 25% less for fuel when you can fly a gas guzzling 757
b) UA's passengers don't want to miss out on their free "bonus" stopovers in Gander in the winter?

Surely it has to be one of these?   
 
chrisp390
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:30 pm

I have to wonder if people like Smisek ever come on here and read some of the forums and the things we say and how he would react lol
 
bgm
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
Ahem, and then UA basically copied them?

Basically, the general rule is, DL implements a negative customer experience "enhancement", UA follows. If it's a positive change, UA ignores it.

Flyer friendly my ass.
OK boomer.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 64):
UAL has mentioned internally that they would like to move away from 757 service to continental Europe within the next 18-24 months and begin to isolate them to the British Isles, where reliability is not as much of a concern. Part of this strategy involves retrofitting the remaining three-cabin 763ERs to the 76E standard and taking additional 787 deliveries, as any refleeting needs to balance between replacing existing issues and expansion to new markets/frequencies.

United knows the 752 is not the right airplane for EWR-TXL/ARN/OSL/BCN/MAD, etc., and in time, we will probably see upgauges.

This by far and away makes the most sense of UA's thinking in this regard. Freeing up their 757 from missions to the continent would enable them to add destinations within the UK or increase frequency from airports such as EWR, ORD and IAD.
 
a380787
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:54 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 61):

They'll pick up some used ones in 2035

And retire them in 2060.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 72):

This by far and away makes the most sense of UA's thinking in this regard. Freeing up their 757 from missions to the continent would enable them to add destinations within the UK or increase frequency from airports such as EWR, ORD and IAD.

Or they can use the freed up 757s to launch 3-4x daily p.s. service on LAX-BOS, but using 16J instead of 28J
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 68):
So the A321LR doesn't suit UA's needs....so what? That's not necessarily an indictment of the A321LR, it's merely an assessment of the aircraft in relation to what UA is looking for.

I think this thread is less an indictment of the A321 and more an indictment of the executive. The conflagration of the two is unfortunate and pointless.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:18 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 74):
I think this thread is less an indictment of the A321 and more an indictment of the executive.

I don't understand why it has to be either. All of the following things can be true at once (and, I think, are):

- The A321neo is a good product for its intended mission.
- The A321neoLR is a good product for its intended mission.
- The 737-900ER and 737 MAX 9 are good products for their intended mission.
- The A321neo and neoLR face performance issues on certain routes at the edge of the 757's envelope.
- The 757 faces performance issues on other routes at the edge of its own envelope.
- The 737-900ER and 737 MAX 9 can't fly certain long or hot/high routes very well.
- The executive is speaking accurately.
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:21 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 7):
The 737-9 Max will still achieve excellent fuel burn. Yea, it won't take off out of SNA etc but it will still move a lot of butts around the U.S. extremely efficiently.
Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
A.net has already collectively decided that the A321LR does everything short of curing cancer, there is no way that it can have any kind of downside (I.e. Field performance). Of course UA must not know what they are talking about.
Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
The collective wisdom somehow is that since DL/AA are more profitable than UA, if they decide to jump off a cliff together and UA stays put, then UA must be the dumb one.

Three of the best posts I've seen in long time.

I've really had it with the 757 TATL bashing. I was curious about the UA125 TXL-EWR performance lately: One diversion out of 8 flights, and we don't know if it diverted because things were messed up in EWR. The aforementioned diverted 26Feb flight departed 1 hr late, and arrived only 2.5 hrs late, which is a more punctual arrival than the non-stop on 02Mar. C'mon guys! Get over it. Way over-blown, especially when you can't miss your "connection" in Bangor.

Having used these flights three times, I can say that they rock, and make otherwise impossible itineraries possible.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
tomcbaker
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:25 pm

Quoting bgm (Reply 1):

Quoting phxa340 (Thread starter):
Anyone know what issues UA sees with the A321neo ?

Yes, it's not a cramped, runway-hugging Boeing 737-900.

Haha. The A321 still feels cramped to me; less cramped than the 739, I'll give you that, but much moreso than a 752. As has already been stated on here ad nauseum, it is not a 1:1 replacement for a 752. The fuel burn is obviously better but the payload/performance aren't as good and from a pilot's perspective it is under powered comparatively speaking. This does matter in the summer in the south/southwest and in places with higher density altitudes like Mexico City or Denver in August, which is where the 757 shines. Don't get me wrong though, I still much prefer the A321 to the 739 any day, though I'd rather have a 752 than either of those as either a pilot or a passenger.
Tom
 
roseflyer
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:28 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 67):

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 50):
As marketed, the A321neoLR with the three aux tanks has about 500 miles more range than the 737-MAX-9. With the three aux tanks, it is going to be a little limited on cargo capacity. So far, UA has not had an interest in putting auxiliary tanks on the 737-900ER or MAX9, although that is also an option. Some airlines are using auxiliary tanks on the A321 already Realistically the range difference if equipped with aux tanks puts the airplanes within about 300 miles of each other.

I did read your entire post and you brought up some very interesting and valid points and problems UA currently faces with the 757 TATL operation during certain times of the year. So my question is with the aux tanks on an A321neoLR could that aircraft cover all the international flight the 757 now flies without having to make a fuel stop?

I might get flamed for this, but I am fairly confident that the answer is no. I don't think the A321neolr will be able to operate Germany to Newark. The 757 has problems doing this in the winter and so with the A321. I question if the A321 Neo LR will be able to fly from Norway, Sweden, France and Spain to New York. Airbus is advertising yes, but I think that it is too early to know if it would work in the UA configuration. I think it can easily fly from the Uk. Regardless of the limit, I predict someone will put the A321neolr on transatlantic that push the range and will require January westbound fuel stops. The question now is which country is that?
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:00 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 70):
I have to wonder if people like Smisek ever come on here and read some of the forums and the things we say and how he would react

Pft! I don't think he'd care, frankly.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
codc10
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 72):
increase frequency from airports such as EWR, ORD and IAD.
Quoting a380787 (Reply 73):

Or they can use the freed up 757s to launch 3-4x daily p.s. service on LAX-BOS, but using 16J instead of 28J

This. UA is going to have more sCO 757s in the domestic system as time goes on, primarily for performance-intensive missions like LAX/SFO/DEN-Hawaii and wintertime BOS transcons.
 
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enzo011
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 77):
The A321 still feels cramped to me; less cramped than the 739, I'll give you that, but much moreso than a 752.

That is interesting, seeing as the 737 and 757 are almost identical in width and the A321 is wider than these 2.
 
A342
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:40 pm

Please allow me a question that deviates from the silly A321neoLR/737-900ER/737-9MAX discussion.

The article in the opening post states that UA's first A350s are due for delivery from 2018. It has already been mentioned in this thread that three to four years is a rather short timeframe for which to acquire an interim aircraft, in this case the 773ER.

Could it be that UA rather feels that it won't be receiving their A350s fast enough? In this case, could Airbus accelerate deliveries, say by offering now-vacant slots left by EK's cancelled order?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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par13del
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 38):
UA may as well just hunker down for the next 36 months. The 777s of Today and Tomorrow are just too much for UA.

Hmm, so I guess they won't be candidates for the A380 when traffic picks up... also how much more capacity does the A350-1000 have over the current 777W?

Quoting jayunited (Reply 67):
So my question is with the aux tanks on an A321neoLR could that aircraft cover all the international flight the 757 now flies without having to make a fuel stop?

It may but the question would be with what payload, if just business pax with a laptop no problem.
 
tomcbaker
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:15 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 81):
That is interesting, seeing as the 737 and 757 are almost identical in width and the A321 is wider than these 2.

How is it interesting when it's based on both individual (subjective) perception and how an airline chooses to outfit the interior cabin of its aircraft? An example is the 767; love it on Delta, hate the international version of it on BA, but then again, Delta's overhead bin size is significantly larger than BA's on this aircraft and that additional storage space really makes a difference in my perception of the aircraft size. Similarly, the 757 is almost 10 feet longer than the A321, and has a similarly longer interior cabin even if it's 4 inches smaller in width, which is so small of a difference it is hard to notice. What I did notice when flying on a US Airways 757 vs. A321 was that the lavatories and overhead storage bins felt larger, in addition to it taking longer to reach the back from the front during boarding. That's why I said "feels" cramped, which is subjective.
Tom
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 83):
also how much more capacity does the A350-1000 have over the current 777W?

Passenger-wise, marginal. It also has more or less the same payload.

The real advantage the A350-1000 has over the 777-300ER is that fact that it's lighter. United doesn't seem to really need the 777 after the -200. They just don't have the network or routes for the -300ER, -8 or -9, nor do I think UA should operate the 777 after the -200.

The A350-1000 is destined to be United's flagship model.

[Edited 2015-03-03 16:36:36]
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
strfyr51
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
A.net has already collectively decided that the A321LR does everything short of curing cancer, there is no way that it can have any kind of downside (I.e. Field performance). Of course UA must not know what they are talking about.

I know I'm not one to talk but you might be a little harsh? We've not getting the airplane Chiefly because it's not a good Hot and High airplane for Denver, Mexico City and Points south. Also? It doesn't really matter what A.Net thinks. They don't have to maintain any airplane and I can think of a number of reasons why the A321 wouldn't be able to replace the 757. Starting with reliability but that's another conversation at another time.
Of Course? I also don't think the 737-9 or MAX-9 is going to either.
I think the 767-300's will fill those slots as they are amortized out to zero value and their role is replaced by the 787-8's.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:10 am

With fuel being cheap(er) than it has been in the past coupled with the 763s being paid off (if correct), that is reason enough not to go with a new 321LR at least for now while we see if Boeing will replace the 757.
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:12 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):
I don't work in the industry

Well, that's very obvious. But that still doesn't stop you from posting highly irrelevant and uneducated comments about UA. Do you really think that CFO of any company, UA included, would ever just say things about his company's operations without any analysis? Don't accuse Rainey of the exact thing you are doing - giving false, wrong, and not really backed up claims. He does ask for serious back up and analyses for even seemingly trivial issues. How do I know, you might ask. I worked on several of those analyses for him and other officers. But you probably know it better, so keep doing what you are doing if you don't feel embarrassed.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
tommy767
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 88):

He can't back up his claim that the A321neo has issues. Thats my point, he's an idiot and should have never said it.

And guess what? I don't care for your blind allegiance to the CO executives at UA. When they post better numbers and stop outsourcing, then you can talk. Right now your airline is absolute crap and it isn't getting better.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 89):
And guess what? I don't care for your blind allegiance to the CO executives at UA. When they post better numbers and stop outsourcing, then you can talk. Right now your airline is absolute crap and it isn't getting better.

I think that goes a bit deeper than just CO Executives running the show.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
ORD2PHL
Posts: 243
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:21 am

Might it be entirely possible that everyone is reading just a wee too much into the comment that was made?

Perhaps Mr. Rainey simply meantt that the A321neolr-Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, just has issues meeting their particular need at UA? If it doesn't fulfill their particular mission, who cares? Doesn't make it a bad airframe, just not right for UA based on their current hub/route structure and how THEY use the B757 today. It might have 'issues' meeting their need but not systemic issues that make it a bad plane. Bottom line, relax.

I'll never for the life of me understand why folks get so defensive about an airframe, not invented here.

ORD2PHL
 
S75752
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
there is no way that it can have any kind of downside (I.e. Field performance).

My biggest concern is the engine. I think it should have at least matched the 757's thrust output, perhaps exceeded. This is regardless of the reduced weight advantage it has over the 757. That seems like it would have provided further benefit, not only being a 757 replacement but also building upon it.
Ideally, it would have had the ability to make existing TATL routes fully viable without the fuel stops (such as the EWR-TXL's). But it doesn't look like it brought enough of a boost to the table. I would not be surprised if that is what UA saw issue in for the LR. It would not relieve the fuel stop issues on the routes they'd want it to serve, so they'll just stick with the existing 757's.
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 89):
And guess what? I don't care for your blind allegiance to the CO executives at UA. When they post better numbers and stop outsourcing, then you can talk. Right now your airline is absolute crap and it isn't getting better.

As I recommended in another thread, you should probably stop spewing this poison. You are just stressing yourself for nothing. This slur you just posted illustrates that you are not in the industry. The respect we have for our competitors is very healthy and brotherly, but in your world we should probably be at war. The airline industry is a much more decent arena than you will ever comprehend. I'm happy that you give your business to another solid airline. Have a good night...
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:12 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 92):
My biggest concern is the engine. I think it should have at least matched the 757's thrust output, perhaps exceeded.

What issues the A321LR has are almost totally the result of a lack of wing, not a lack of thrust. The best way to improve the A321LR would be to give it more wing area. Unfortunately for Airbus, that's not cheap.

The A321LR at 35k/side is getting close to typical US carrier domestic 757 configurations at 37k/side, but the wing is much smaller.
 
catiii
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 89):

Did you get laid off by UA or something?
 
DualQual
Posts: 709
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:31 am

Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 91):
Might it be entirely possible that everyone is reading just a wee too much into the comment that was made?

Methinks you have squarely hit the nail with the hammer. Given how often this site finds fault with the aviation reportings of the media, it's ironic that suddenly the quote was accurate and all implied meaning is gospel.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
CONTACREW
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 95):

No he doesn't work for UA, but he's upset that UA is taking delivery of new 737s and not having them installed with seatback screens, retiring all sUA 757s (except for the PS ones), charging for drinks, slimline seats, (Even though his beloved DL is also installing slimlines) And he gets so defensive every time an sCO mechanic mentions the poor shape that a lot of the sUA 757s were in when they passed through MCO.
Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:09 am

I still think UA wants to see the fuel burn test results of the A35J before deciding on buying the 777-9X. If the fuel burn results are good, then UA may not buy the 777-9X but do a second buy of A35J's to eventually replace the entire 747-400 fleet.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 89):
He can't back up his claim that the A321neo has issues. Thats my point, he's an idiot and should have never said it.

OK, explain how the A321 will do EWR-TXL.

It won't, will it? Honest question.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4180
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Reuters: United - No 777X Now, A321neo Has Issues

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:19 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 17):
I think it's not the A321Neo with the issues, it's UA & Rainey. It has the capability and range to beat out the 739ER right out the door. I think what he meant to say is "The A321NEO is not 739ER enough for us."

************************************************************************************************************************************************
Back in 2010 United made the committment to the 739 and the MAX 8,and 9. At the time there WAS no A321 Neo.
So Now that Airbus has jumped on the Wagon since Boeing shelved the 757??.
All of a sudden UA is supposed to DUMP the 739 and the MAX because A.netters say UA should buy the A321 NEO???.
Is Airbus going to repay UA for the Lost Deposits?? Did they forgive the 42 A320 Options United cancelled?
Would they Discount the A321 for any Penalties we might incur as a result of cancelling the MAX order??
And What would we do with 100 A321 NEO LR's when the 757 replacement could yet be in the pipeline??
I know what you're getting to but I'm NOT feeling you.
That airplane is not a "show stopper", Not now and not later either.
Somebody will buy them. It's not necessary for United to buy them.
We bought the A350... Right now? that's enough..
And?? I've seen no evidence the A321 Neo is even that great of an airplane yet.
Certainly not enough to cancel Boeing orders in favor of it.

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