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flyinTLow
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:32 am

How do you read that as an incident?

Serious damage occured to the aircraft, hence an accident.

It is only an incident if the occurence gives A RISE TO A DANGER of serious damage.
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dtw2hyd
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:38 am

Local paper has some close-up pictures of the damage.

http://www.pahilopost.com/content/-2682.html
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zeke
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:01 am

Quoting flyinTLow (Reply 98):

They would have 4 portable bottles for pax use on the aircraft, and you could use a pulse O2 system off that. They would not need to be that high for all that long to get away from the major terrain.
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sq_ek_freak
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 92):
Never underestimate a pissed of flight attendant.  

Ask the passengers on QF 032...when the time came to finally do the evac, crew asked for everyone to leave their personal belongings behind but bring their travel documents with them. When some tried to bring their bags and rollaboards with them the cabin crew literally wrestled the stuff off them, with the Purser literally grabbing and throwing a rollaboard that a pax was insisting to be brought off with him towards the empty galley during the evac.

Quoting flyinTLow (Reply 98):
Unpressurized with those high mountains around? That would be one hell of an unpressurized flight... How will they carry enough oxygen for a ferry flight like that?

Don't think you can clear the Kathmandu Valley at 10,000 feet, but I don't think it takes all that long to clear all the terrain and descend down to a breathable altitude once you're over the southern Nepalese flatlands, probably 15-20 minutes max after departure from KTM.

Given the performance requirements of that departure patten though I'd hope the aircraft is still fully capable to do it. Are TK brining in their own pilots to do this or will Airbus send theirs?

Do we also know how the crew are doing? They are surely shaken up and still stranded in Kathmandu, probably desperately wanting to get home to Istanbul ASAP.
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Apprentice
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:37 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 89):

By Definition by ICAO Annex 13 about accidents:


Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked, in which:

a) .....

b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure which:

- adversely affects the structural strength, performance or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and

- would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component,


Same definition Is common to main Aviation Authorities.

I don't know Delta landing maintenance outcome details, but if damages sustained are IAW description above, You may be sure FAA & NTSB will catalogue it as an accident. Media description is worthless

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nitepilot79
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:18 am

An accident as the result of an incident  
 
galleypower
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:57 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 19):
Is this a write-off? What do you think?

Guess it depends on what happens next. Will the indian military do a gentle lift and pull or will they just drag it away to get this airport back operational.
 
AvioGuy
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:31 pm

Update from journalist in KTM: A330 lifted with airbags, collapsed nose gear resting on truck. Efforts underway to repair main undercarriage.
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting AvioGuy (Reply 107):
Update from journalist in KTM: A330 lifted with airbags, collapsed nose gear resting on truck. Efforts underway to repair main undercarriage.

When do they expect international ops to restart then? Tomorrow morning?
Keep Discovering
 
AvioGuy
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:05 pm

It was reported yesterday that Friday morning all ops are slated to begin.
 
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EPA001
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting Apprentice (Reply 104):
You may be sure FAA & NTSB will catalogue it as an accident. Media description is worthless

Thanks for your clarification, and for the further clarification given by other respected members here regarding incidents and accidents. But accident or incident was not really what I was discussing here.  

Still good to read the official definitions which are drawn up by the respective authorities and organisations.
 
AvioGuy
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:27 pm



Pic by chakrapath.com
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:51 pm

All posts are just opinions.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:18 am

The airport is still closed. Removing the plane without a crane is quite challenging.



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RWA380
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:44 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):
The airport is still closed. Removing the plane without a crane is quite challenging

Thank you for the pictures,does this mean the plane is off the runway now or still a work in progress? Understanding the field is still not accepting International flight as of yet.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:47 am

They are still cleaning the runway. The airport was supposed to re-open yesterday but now it looks like it won't even open today. Kathmandu airport lacks the equipment to properly remove an airplane.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:13 pm

It seems better than expected to me. There is no visible wrinkles on fuselage which means less stress, but both engines damaged. I wish to see inside the avionics compartment pictures nose gear bay is there, also how much avioncs equipment damaged is important.
 
P206
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:56 pm

Twitter is saying that airport has opened


PHALANO™ @phalano · 23m 23 minutes ago

1st international flight after clearance of @TurkishAirlines. #NAC's RA205 Delta ready for Dharke One Bravo dep 4 DEL

 
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phlsfo
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:59 pm

Seems like everything will be operating now. Just got notification that airlines have been given clearance to begin operations back into KTM
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:30 pm

TK should review its policy to fly almost anywhere there is demand but try to make sure those destinations meet certain criteria. The fact that there is pax demand and bilateral rights is not alone sufficient and KAT is a good example why TK should immediately quit destinations like that unless they meet certain technical facility/capacity offered. Not that against a global expansion but has to be done with some sort of discipline.
I will be so sorry to see this a/c scrapped, less than a year old, and may be a wake up call for TK network planners before more incidents take place in third world destinations.
 
jreuschl
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 119):
I will be so sorry to see this a/c scrapped, less than a year old, and may be a wake up call for TK network planners before more incidents take place in third world destinations.

It isn't known if it will be a write off, in fact, based on the last pictures showing the aircraft being raised up, it looks better that I'm sure many thought.

We don't even know what happened to cause this. We can probably lean toward pilot error, but way to throw TK under the bus without knowing the full details yet. Even if it was pilot error, does this mean TK should cancel a bunch of destinations?

I'll just throw in 2 cents on carry on luggage. I think there is a difference between grabbing your personal small bag in front of you vs. taking the time to get it out of an overhead bin. No way would I take the time to go into an overhead bin in an emergency. Small bag in front of me? Well... I probably would grab it.

[Edited 2015-03-07 11:55:01]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 119):
TK should review its policy to fly almost anywhere there is demand but try to make sure those destinations meet certain criteria. The fact that there is pax demand and bilateral rights is not alone sufficient and KAT is a good example why TK should immediately quit destinations like that unless they meet certain technical facility/capacity offered. Not that against a global expansion but has to be done with some sort of discipline.
I will be so sorry to see this a/c scrapped, less than a year old, and may be a wake up call for TK network planners before more incidents take place in third world destinations.

You realize half of Turkish domestic airports don't offer much of any technical support either right?

Bottom line airlines fly to airports that are certified according to international standards. KTM is certified for up to ICAO CAT VIII aircraft operations.

The airport has been operational now for almost 70-years, and today receives service from almost 30 airlines and has some 90,000 annual movements.

If an airline would avoid all airports that operate in less than pristine conditions, I'm afraid that airline would not have many places to fly to outside 1st world nations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 119):

Rather preposterous comments.
Having made KTM as a network destination is not a fault that TK can be blamed for.
If you follow your logic, maybe TK should get out of the airline business as there will always be risk, greatest so actually at its hub in IST statistically.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 121):
If an airline would avoid all airports that operate in less than pristine conditions, I'm afraid that airline would not have many places to fly to outside 1st world nations.

  
And many first world airports have high incidence of repeat accidents themselves -- look at LGA in New York.
mercure f-wtcc
 
AR385
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 74):
Controlled evac and emergency evac are two different things. One requires dropping everything and one allows some latitude.

Do you understand the difference?

In the two times I had to evacuate an aircraft I don´t recall hearing "Cabin Crew, this is a controlled evac" vs "Cabin Crew this is an emergency evac." It was just "Cabin Crew, Evac, Evac , Evac".

While I will not shoot anyone in the head, anybody that impedes my access to an exit due to any other reason than the nature of the evac itself, is going to be removed out of my way by whatever means possible. Sorry, but I am not going to risk my life due to others being stupid. I´ve had to kick and punch my way into the aisle on a 722 rapidly filling with smoke, when I realized asking nicely was not going to allow me to leave my seat row. Having to wait due to an idiot carrying stuff? Laughable.
 
nitepilot79
Posts: 1075
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 123):
I´ve had to kick and punch my way into the aisle on a 722 rapidly filling with smoke, when I realized asking nicely was not going to allow me to leave my seat row.

AR385, what flight were you on?! Sounds scary as hell.
 
AR385
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting nitepilot79 (Reply 124):
AR385, what flight were you on?! Sounds scary as hell.

Charter, full flight MTY-CUN. Engine 2 went at V1 or close to it, I suppose.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:37 am

Quoting P206 (Reply 117):

Twitter is saying that airport has opened
Quoting PHLSFO (Reply 118):

Seems like everything will be operating now. Just got notification that airlines have been given clearance to begin operations back into KTM

Woo-Hoo, I wonder how long it will take the carriers to clear the backlog of passengers trying to get in & trying to get out. One of my business partners went to KTM mid February to get his wife's first son from a previous marriage.

Worse than that is, they just their first child together in December, and she is really needing her hubby back home & her son who she has not seen in 5 years.

He was scheduled to take Fly Dubai to DXB then EK DXB-SEA & home on AS/QX to PDX. A day after this incident happened, luckily there is family for him to stay with in Nepal, because I am guessing hotel rooms are full with waiting travelers trying to get out of the country.

I hope that maybe carriers will add extra segments to try & clear that backlog of people going both in & out of Nepal.
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:33 pm

I read somewhere that a Nepal Airlines was the 1st aircraft to take off again, as a scheduled pax flight!

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Flying Belgian
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:44 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 119):
TK should review its policy to fly almost anywhere there is demand but try to make sure those destinations meet certain criteria. The fact that there is pax demand and bilateral rights is not alone sufficient and KAT is a good example why TK should immediately quit destinations like that unless they meet certain technical facility/capacity offered. Not that against a global expansion but has to be done with some sort of discipline.
I will be so sorry to see this a/c scrapped, less than a year old, and may be a wake up call for TK network planners before more incidents take place in third world destinations.

QR and EY both fly the A330 to KTM for years now. So does TG with the 777.

KTM is a very basic and rather old airport with poor facilities. But it's not like Somialia or South Sudan (to name a few) where TK also operates (albeit with 737s I concede) .

I would rather question the training and skills of (some) TK pilots. At this rate of growth and knowing they aren't prone to hire expat crews (unlike the ME3) we might have some more incidents coming.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:12 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 128):
At this rate of growth and knowing they aren't prone to hire expat crews (unlike the ME3) we might have some more incidents coming.

I cant see how you connect safety with nationality.

But either way, the truth is TK does hire foreign crews, many in fact.
As of September 2014, TK had 770 foreign pilots from 48 nationalities. Largest foreign groups were; 106 - German, 70 - Greek, 57 - Spanish, 55 - Italian, 47 - Dutch.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Turkish350XWB
Posts: 488
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 129):
I cant see how you connect safety with nationality.

I think what he wanted to say that if you have a bigger pool (number of pilots available) you can choose better ones.
 
Chaostheory
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 130):
I think what he wanted to say that if you have a bigger pool (number of pilots available) you can choose better ones.

Erm no.

It's clear he brought nationality into it.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 128):
knowing they aren't prone to hire expat crews (unlike the ME3) we might have some more incidents coming.

Pretty ridiculous.
 
bennett123
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:30 pm

Presumably if you expand, then you need more crew at a given level of experience.

If you are expanding very rapidly, then this will mean poaching staff from other operators, (either from other Turkish carriers or from overseas).

If you do not then your skills base will be diluted.
 
TKA380
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:51 pm

When I flew IST-JFK a couple of years ago on the 77W TC-JJP one of the pilots was British, living in London - he was flown to Istanbul as a passenger and put in a hotel for a night just to carry out his duty.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:56 pm

Was wondering if there was an update on how TK plans to fix the aircraft. I think it will be a logistic miracle to get the parts and equipment needed to KTM.
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TK787
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:52 pm

Here are some latest photos:
Looks like some equipment came from Turkey.
http://www.airkule.com/haber/GOBEKLITEPE-BU-HALE-GELDI/19835
 
TC957
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:06 pm

Fascinating photos - thanks for sharing TK787. Looks like the poor bird is certainly in good need of expert attention - has a team from Airbus themselves been over there and checked her over ?
 
nitepilot79
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:23 pm

Gecmis olsun/get well Gobeklitepe  
 
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HALtheAI
Posts: 296
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 135):
http://www.airkule.com/haber/GOBEKLITEPE-BU-HALE-GELDI/19835
In my completely inexpert opinion, that looks bad. Like 'victim of a gutshot trying to hold their intestines in while crawling to the hospital' bad. A lot worse than I initially expected. Are they going to be able to patch up the fuselage enough to get it airworthy?
 
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AirlineCritic
Posts: 1765
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 138):
In my completely inexpert opinion, that looks bad.

This non-expert also agrees. It is pretty banged up. It will need engines, although perhaps these engines can eventually be repaired, but not on site. But perhaps more worrisome is the hull damage. How close are we to a write-off?
 
gokmengs
Posts: 1281
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 135):

WOW! Thanks for sharing that, it hurts to look almost but I don't see any reason why it would be a write off. The only reason they would write the plane off -and this a slim possibility- is the fact that KTM has very little equipment to handle a repair like this and basically the cost of getting equipment there setting it up etc will be huge. Lets see what will happen...
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
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Siren
Posts: 775
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RE: Turkish A330 Incident In KTM

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:14 pm

I'm hedging my bets on it being written-off. Even though it is a new frame. Anyone remember the Iberia A346 incident at UIO back in 2007? EC-JOH overran the runway in bad weather conditions (quite similar in fact to the KTM weather) - http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20071109-0

For comparison's sake, the Iberia incident - her nose gear stayed up, but two engines were trashed, and there was some damage to the main gear. I don't recall there being any significant damage to the fuselage itself - as there appears to be in this case. I'm guessing the damage, coupled with the remoteness of this airfield and thus the difficulty in obtaining competent parts, labor, and service at reasonable cost - the plane will be parted and scrapped on site....

It was a brand new A346 at UIO - they scrapped it for, what, to me, looks like similarly serious damage. KTM is even more remote...

[Edited 2015-03-13 14:16:47]

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