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CIDFlyer
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What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:21 am

Allegiant seems to be on an expansion roll lately, adding larger markets and new vacation destinations like MSY, JAX & SAV. What other destinations could Allegiant tackle next? What about HRL or BRO (Padre Island/South Texas) for winter and spring break? Or the Florida Panhandle - Would VPS work because its centrally located, or perhaps ECP or PNS?

What about Gulf Shores/Orange Beach AL? Gulf Shores does have an airport there, but not sure if it could handle G4's jets, then again Saint Augustine has a small airport they converted to handle Skybus and now F9.

It would also be nice to see G4 expand with SAN, PSP and RNO as focus cities. Nice to see OAK extending its reach to OMA soon.

With G4 expanding into the larger markets now, seems like there could be more possibilities. They are fun to watch to see where they will go next.

Thanks in advance for any insight or thoughts.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:20 am

I wondered for a while if delving into winter ski traffic may be on the radar fo Allegiant. Maybe seasonal focus cities out of places like Bozeman, Kalispell, Lake Tahoe Airport (are commercial flights even allowed still?), Jackson Hole, Vail/Eagle, Gunnison/Crested Butte, Montrose/Telluride, etc. I know a few of these are already served, but mostly as spokes to their warm resort destinations.

I would think Reno/Tahoe could support far more service from G4 than the few dailys offered to LAS.
 
rtalk25
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:39 am

I'd be interested if it decides to expand in PHL or one of the surrounding airports. It's nearest point of presence is in ABE.

Frontier is leaving ILG in two months. But, ILG might do well with Allegiant Florida 2-3x weekly to markets like SFB and PIE especially as Frontier helped re-introduce awareness of ILG recently. Allegiant operates in HGR which is similar, with no DL, US and UA around, and HGR is somewhat in the Washington region like how ILG is in the Philly region. Hagerstown has the prime outlet mall while Delaware has sales tax free shopping with both accomodating some travelers from out of the immediate area and both could have Allegiant.

Although ILG F9 fares are generally softer than TTN and PHL right now to Florida markets, some days ILG-TPA /MCO does have robust fares indicating peak demand. The ILG-MCO schedule was a little bizarre (flights arriving around midnight) that might have suppressed demand. And Allegiant might be able to perform better in this type of market than Frontier that is going into generally more primary airprorts and flying a mix of sun locations as well as "urban hotspots" as the Frontier IVR guy says, while Allegiant is more dedicated on sun or leisure markets.

Another airport Allegiant might do well is in ACY, although I get the impression that NK covers most Florida markets, with the exception of JAX. Allegiant might be able to cover JAX and SAV seasonally that NK doesn't offer.

[Edited 2015-03-05 21:40:46]
 
crazytoaster
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting Beechtobus (Reply 1):
I wondered for a while if delving into winter ski traffic may be on the radar fo Allegiant. Maybe seasonal focus cities out of places like Bozeman, Kalispell, Lake Tahoe Airport (are commercial flights even allowed still?), Jackson Hole, Vail/Eagle, Gunnison/Crested Butte, Montrose/Telluride, etc. I know a few of these are already served, but mostly as spokes to their warm resort destinations.

I would think Reno/Tahoe could support far more service from G4 than the few dailys offered to LAS.

I would love to see that happen personally. There is a huge gap in service to ski destinations, the only problem is low cost and skiing do not go together...

I think we just see more connecting dots, as they added many new "focus" destinations. I see more flights to JAX, MSY, AUS, and SAV depending on their success. Also what is up with PSP and SAN they only have service from BLI? Could there be expansion from there?
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ERJ170
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:32 pm

With them opening up RDU, I'm hoping to see RDU-MSY/FLL/LAS one up.. Definitely see those as G4 markets...
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:12 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see a big expansion out of CAK and even starting CLE.

IMHO, the oddest addition in recent months has been CVG-AUS. I'm curious to see where this goes, and if it's used as a test for other non-first tier leisure destinations.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:37 pm

RNO seems like a market allegiant could do more in. Also tons of hotel rooms so they could get very deep discounts and make a lot on packages.

EGE if allegiant really needs somewhere to fly its 757s but that's alot of seats to fill in their config. I think RNO makes the most sense offer service to some western markets maybe a few Texas or Midwest.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:37 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Thread starter):
Or the Florida Panhandle - Would VPS work because its centrally located, or perhaps ECP or PNS?

I'm shocked that G4 hasn't tried one of those three airports yet. It would probably be seasonal because of the weather, sure, but that's not a problem for G4 - they've done seasonal MYR for years, PGD was small and seasonal until the Direct Air collapse, and they are now doing seasonal MSY and SAV flying.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 6):

RNO seems like a market allegiant could do more in. Also tons of hotel rooms so they could get very deep discounts and make a lot on packages.

G4 was once much bigger in RNO than they are today. I'd say there's a reason why they aren't expanding RNO beyond LAS.

With the A32x, I could see G4 trying airports like AZO that have runways too short for a loaded MD-80 to Florida - G4 says that they've identified at least 30 potential airports that are like that. I think we will also see more connecting of the dots - especially longer flights too thin for a 757 where the A32x opens up new possibilities. Routes like AZA-PIT/IND/GSO/PBG/YNG and LAS-FWA/GSO/YNG all come to mind.

I don't think we'll be seeing Hawaii in the G4 system for much longer, though. I do, however, think that there still is room for a 757-size aircraft in the G4 fleet, but it will be the A321, which is better suited for most G4 flying than the 757.
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727LOVER
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:45 pm

Why don't they send the 757 to SFB?


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Where does G4 fly to JAX?

[Edited 2015-03-06 11:48:40]
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stlgph
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 6):
RNO
Quoting CIDFlyer (Thread starter):
Florida Panhandle - Would VPS work because its centrally located, or perhaps ECP or PNS?

All nice destinations but Allegiant wants to be a retailer. Right now these destinations offer mostly hotel rooms to sell, and that's it. Allegiant wants amusement parks, car rentals, family fun attractions, etc. etc. etc. So you need a market where there's a plethora of this sort of thing along with a number of businesses who would want to play and do business.
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mfe777
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:43 pm

Maybe they should work on creating connecting flight capability. So for example, customers in a place like Laredo, TX could fly to any destination that Allegiant serves through LAS. Laredo-Las Vegas-Hawaii or Laredo-Las Vegas-Los Angeles, etc.
 
nws2002
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 8):
Why don't they send the 757 to SFB?

No 757 pilots based at SFB. G4, unlike legacy carriers, tend to do out and back flights to a base. The aircraft do rotate around a bit, but with the small 757 fleet they keep them at LAS/LAX to do the HNL runs and fill in other stuff in the downtime.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:26 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 9):
All nice destinations but Allegiant wants to be a retailer. Right now these destinations offer mostly hotel rooms to sell, and that's it. Allegiant wants amusement parks, car rentals, family fun attractions, etc. etc. etc. So you need a market where there's a plethora of this sort of thing along with a number of businesses who would want to play and do business.

yes but what about JAX? or MYR? no amusement parks there and essentially similar to the panhandle destinations

OAK and AZA have no amusement parks that I know of nearby as well, and they rely on hotel/car packages as well too.
 
stlgph
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):

Go to the website and start booking vacations. When you get to the "Special Offers" section, start scrolling. Several items for retail in Myrtle Beach and in Phoenix and other destinations.
On top of that in other places you upsell the hell out of golf, spa treatments, better saucier hotel rooms, and bait them to get the rental car to drive to surrounding areas. The sales process also doesn't end at the time of booking. Allegiant will happily remind you that at any time, with the swipe of your credit card, you can enhance your vacation experience.
It's simply like waiting tables when you try to get the customer to buy a call liquor rather than a well or you try to get them to add bacon and cheese to their burger, or perhaps do cheese fries instead of usual fries, or get the side of mushrooms for their steak.
There's plenty of "obvious markets" out there where it seems like Allegiant would work, but it all comes down to Allegiant establishing itself in areas where it can be the middle man and make the cut that it wants. remember, as I said earlier, Allegiant is a retailer. It's first order of business is to sell you an experience, rather than provide a service.
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FWAERJ
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:11 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 8):
Where does G4 fly to JAX?

CVG and PIT

Quoting mfe777 (Reply 10):
Maybe they should work on creating connecting flight capability. So for example, customers in a place like Laredo, TX could fly to any destination that Allegiant serves through LAS. Laredo-Las Vegas-Hawaii or Laredo-Las Vegas-Los Angeles, etc.

That would require a complete revamp of G4's scheduling. What would happen to a connecting flight when the flight coming in is delayed a day for MX issues, which occasionally happens? Right now, it's doing great - why mess with success?

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 12):
OAK and AZA have no amusement parks that I know of nearby as well, and they rely on hotel/car packages as well too.

AZA, sure, but still it has the upsell products that G4 loves like spa treatments, upscale hotels, golf, and the like.

OAK has two amusement parks in the Bay Area: California's Great America (owned by Cedar Fair, which operates Knott's Berry Farm, a G4 partner at LAX) and Six Flags Discovery Kingdom. But most people going to the Bay Area aren't going to either, and neither park operates year-round.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
remember, as I said earlier, Allegiant is a retailer. It's first order of business is to sell you an experience, rather than provide a service.

  

Remember, G4 doesn't just benchmark market performance by just LFs and yields like most airlines - they look at package sales, too. Several G4 cities and routes have been discontinued due to poor package sales even though LFs and yields on those flights were fine.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:22 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
There's plenty of "obvious markets" out there where it seems like Allegiant would work, but it all comes down to Allegiant establishing itself in areas where it can be the middle man and make the cut that it wants. remember, as I said earlier, Allegiant is a retailer. It's first order of business is to sell you an experience, rather than provide a service.

oh I'm not doubting that...it just seems to me like there is probably alot more than just hotels and beaches in Destin and Panama City...there are a plethora of great golf courses, dolphin cruises, marine life parks, water parks, and other attractions the region has to offer that G4 could up sell should they choose ECP or VPS as a destination.

http://www.visitpanamacitybeach.com/things-to-do/attractions/
 
DeltaRules
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:43 am

I'd be curious to see if they'd give DAY a try. With CAK/YNG/PIT going, along with three close-in cities in Illinois all served, they might be able to start SFB and PIE a couple times a week to return a year-round presence to Orlando (my understanding is that WN's ex-FL MCO and TPA are now seasonal) in spite of LCK and CVG being somewhat nearby.

Have to wonder if LCK-LAS or Phoenix might be down the line. I'm amazed at how LCK has gone from 0 to 7 destinations in a relatively short period (SFB/PIE to start, PGD, FLL, MYR, MSY, SAV added later), and with everything G4 does in Las Vegas...
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freakyrat
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:11 am

In most of the ski markets, the resorts control their lodging inventories so the setup doesn't favor Allegiant selling the whole experience. There would just not be any ancillary revenue to be had and that is Allegiant's bread and butter.
 
MavyWavyATR
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:34 am

Allegiant should move from JAX to UST. I don't even know why they picked JAX in the first place, considering the zero tourist market that exists on their planned routes. UST on the other hand, has a better market & demographic for leisure flights.

____

Here's where I think G4 should go to next and from where:

-ACY (From SFB & FLL)
-OGS (From PIE)
-RDD (From LAS)
-GCN (Potential focus city?)
-KPUJ (From SFB & PIE)
 
DeltaRules
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 18):
Allegiant should move from JAX to UST. I don't even know why they picked JAX in the first place, considering the zero tourist market that exists on their planned routes. UST on the other hand, has a better market & demographic for leisure flights.

UST's a better option if you're going to DAB & the Skybus flights were always packed. Could the MD-80s get off UST's runway on a summer day, though? I'd figure that'd almost have to be Airbus (or possibly 757, but not enough of those going around) territory.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 18):
Allegiant should move from JAX to UST. I don't even know why they picked JAX in the first place, considering the zero tourist market that exists on their planned routes. UST on the other hand, has a better market & demographic for leisure flights.

I am a bit surprised they didnt go to UST also, seems more like a G4 type airport. With them going into JAX is why I don't see them not being able to try out ECP or VPS/PNS at some point. On the surface it would seem like there would be more of a tourism factor than what JAX has.
 
sldispatcher
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:15 pm

Vision Air had flights from the Mid-South to the VPS area a few years back and they stayed packed from here (SHV) and probably a few other places. It's the machinery of booking car and condo rental that would need to be in place. That 7 - 10 hour drive robs families of two days worth of vacation time.

I have seen a few people talk about ski destinations. I agree that is an Allegiant potential model as well based on a significantly limiting factor in place now: $

Legacy carriers routinely charge $750 + RT to ski destinations. A couple can stomach that. A family of 4 and you start spending way too much on airfare for an average upper middle income family. When lodging, food and ski passes for 4 or 5 days start costing less than the transportation, families either opt out or choose a resort within a reasonable driving distance.

But just like the Gulf Coast, the logistics have to be in place. If I were a ski resort looking to drive business, I would be hooking up with Allegiant yesterday. A turnkey air/lodging/lift ticket/(even equipment rental) package would be VERY attractive to a large segment of the population.

However, even though we can dream on A.net, G4 seems to be fairly smart at kicking the tires on potential destinations and probably don't need our help. But if JAX and AUS are starting up, then anything is possible!
 
RL757PVD
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:55 pm

PVD could be a good destination for Memorial Day-Columbus day (on the heels of the Florida peak):

You can market Cape Cod, Newport/beaches, Boston, Foxwood/Mohegan Sun Casinos all under an hour away, then when the seasonal base goes away they can supplement the rest of the year to other bases as an outbound market to MYR SAV PGD and maybe even LAS and AWA when they take those flights further east.
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SANFan
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Thread starter):
It would also be nice to see G4 expand with SAN, PSP and RNO as focus cities.
Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 3):
Also what is up with PSP and SAN they only have service from BLI? Could there be expansion from there?

G4 starting serving SAN in 2008 and has never gotten beyond very minimal (read: subsistence) service and that remains a mystery to me. In fact, I keep wondering why they even bother?

Allegiant is the only seasonal carrier at SAN, with current 2x/week service to BLI, between February and August only. The only other route they tried was MRY, briefly served (for about a year) in 2009 and '10. And G4 used to at least fly year-round in and out of Lindbergh Field but the downgrade to seasonal-only service began in 2012. Things just seem to be in a downward spiral for G4 in SAN.

Apparently SAN is not a destination that Allegiant can market successfully anywhere. Maybe they are able to get people to tack on a side-trip to San Diego as part of a trip to the LA area -- where G4 has lots of service.

Also, I sense that sub-daily service here usually doesn't work well -- for many carriers. F9 briefly tried multiple routes that way, Volaris seems to keep struggling with their light service levels here, and of course sub-daily is G4's most common model.

G4 never even tried Hawaii from SAN, one of the top-5 markets to/from the Islands.

bb
 
FATFlyer
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 14):
OAK has two amusement parks in the Bay Area: California's Great America (owned by Cedar Fair, which operates Knott's Berry Farm, a G4 partner at LAX) and Six Flags Discovery Kingdom. But most people going to the Bay Area aren't going to either, and neither park operates year-round.

Although some like to refer to the City of San Francisco as an adult amusement park.  
Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 18):
-RDD (From LAS)

Allegiant tried that in 2004, it only lasted a very short 5 months. They might try it again but some significant change making it a better market than before would be needed.

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 18):
-GCN (Potential focus city?)

I don't think it quite fits as a focus city. If GCN has potential as a focus city then FAT would also have the potential to serve visitors to Yosemite and Sequoia/Kings Canyon NPs. Combined number of visitors to those 3 parks is similar to the number of visitors to the Grand Canyon. But I'm not convinced either works as a focus city.

I have always thought Allegiant should offer a Yosemite package from LAS for Vegas visitors to add a day or two visiting that national park. A package could include a LAS-FAT flight, room near the park, then a rental car (or shuttle on the new YARTS route starting from FAT this year). There are other activities that could be sold such as to one of the zip line courses near the park, a narrow gauge train ride, etc. But I see the package just for that route, not as a focus city.
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bahadir
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:33 pm

A contract would be good  
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maxholstemh1521
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Thread starter):
What about Gulf Shores/Orange Beach AL? Gulf Shores does have an airport there, but not sure if it could handle G4's jets, then again Saint Augustine has a small airport they converted to handle Skybus and now F9.

Gulf Shores/Orange Beach would be better served from MOB/PNS. The drive from MOB is about an hour, and half, and the drive from PNS is about an hour IIRC. Their widest runway at the airport in Gulf Shores is only 100 feet wide, and is an east west runway, which might cause issues with constant crosswinds. That being said the runway is probably long enough at 6900 feet. They would also need to build a new terminal to house the TSA, and all of the other airline terminal stuff.
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Fixinthe757
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:19 am

MOB, which I would love to see, would be ideal, not only for the beach access to both Dauphin Island and Gulf Shores, but also for the 45 min drive to Biloxi for the casinos. They served GPT in the past with help from the casinos but that ended several years ago. There's definitely room for them at MOB.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting maxholstemh1521 (Reply 26):
Gulf Shores/Orange Beach would be better served from MOB/PNS. The drive from MOB is about an hour, and half, and the drive from PNS is about an hour IIRC. Their widest runway at the airport in Gulf Shores is only 100 feet wide, and is an east west runway, which might cause issues with constant crosswinds. That being said the runway is probably long enough at 6900 feet. They would also need to build a new terminal to house the TSA, and all of the other airline terminal stuff.

ahh thanks for the info. I would probablly have to agree that the other larger airports would be better to handle Gulf Shores/Orange Beach ...PNS especially since its closer. In all my trips to Orange Beach over the last 18 years I have used PNS all but once (the one time I used VPS because they had free ticket award availability). I've never considered MOB as it just seems too far away, its clear on the western side of MOB, then you would have to deal with the tunnels of dowtown Mobile and bay crossing which can get backed up...for Orange Beach with it being right on the Florida border adjacent to southwest Pnesacola city proper (Perdido Key FL actually) the drive to PNS is about 45 minutes, pretty much half the drive time to Mobile. It almost seems more like a suburb of Pensacola more than its a part of the MOB metro area.
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 21):

Vision Air had flights from the Mid-South to the VPS area a few years back and they stayed packed from here (SHV) and probably a few other places. It's the machinery of booking car and condo rental that would need to be in place. That 7 - 10 hour drive robs families of two days worth of vacation time.

Start up Southern Airways Express seems to be doing well with it's MidSouth (Memphis) to the beach flights to Destin I'm wondering when they upgrade from the Caravans on a route or two. The fares can be downright nice and they are into offering packages.
 
cbphoto
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RE: What's Next For Allegiant?

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting bahadir (Reply 25):

A contract would be a huge step forward for the company!

Also look to see some international destinations at some point!!
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