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NZ107
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CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:37 am

As per title.. The restriction of slots CX has to Australia means one thing - increasing the size of planes they use. This Northern Winter schedule, CX will add another 3-class 77W to CX 100/101, to go 2x daily 77W.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacif...d-boeing-777-onto-sydney-hong-kong
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a320fan
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:40 am

Nice. I always wondered what took them so long. They were A330 only to Australia for so long. I wonder if MEL will ever get 777s
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bunumuring
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:13 am

Hmmm... Another step towards VLAs for Cathay Pacific? Sydney would have the demand, though CX is on record as saying they prefer frequency over capacity on the route.
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NZ107
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting a320fan (Reply 1):

I think CX will have the A350-1000 by the time they need to send the 77W to MEL.. But maybe that would provide them with an opportunity to send the 77W to MEL.
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a36001
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:22 am

It's about time! They should have had these on the route long ago, every single SYD>HKG>SYD flight I go on the A330's are packed full!   I am a huge A330 fan and love flying in it internationally, but there is more of a big boys club about the 777, especially on international services!  Silly

[Edited 2015-03-09 02:27:27]
 
tortugamon
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:30 am

Mr Sandilands has a good article today on this subject.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ydney-flights-but-what-comes-next/

tortugamon
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:49 am

SYD handles only 300,000 movements with a set of parallels and a crossing runway. By comparison, LHR, with only a set of parallel runways, handles 470,000.

SYD has plenty of room left to grow. CX might not be able to get the slots it desires, but there are plenty of slots left nonetheless.

[Edited 2015-03-09 04:50:58]
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NZ107
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:53 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):

Well you haven't taken into account the curfew at SYD, the runway length differential meaning the larger widebodies can't use the shorter 16L/34R... And the layout of the airport doesn't entirely help either.
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jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:06 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):

It's not a SYD issue. I recall its more like CX already maxing out the HKG-Aussie bilateral. They would have to move frequencies from other ports like PER ADL CNS if they want to boost SYD

Regarding the bilateral I don't see any incentive for Australia to expand it, considering QF is barely using their side of the allocation
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:20 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):
The restriction of slots CX has to Australia means one thing - increasing the size of planes they use.

With HK not succeeding in their negotiation for more access to Australia, perhaps this is CX's way of showing they need more frequencies? Previously CX was reluctant to use anything bigger than A330s.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
SYD has plenty of room left to grow. CX might not be able to get the slots it desires, but there are plenty of slots left nonetheless.

SYD is politically restricted to 80 movements per hour. The airport has the ability to handle more traffic but no government has the political will to alter the status quo.
 
LJ
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:30 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 8):
It's not a SYD issue. I recall its more like CX already maxing out the HKG-Aussie bilateral. They would have to move frequencies from other ports like PER ADL CNS if they want to boost SYD

In addition to the bilateral, isn't there a severe shortage of slots at HKG as well?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 7):
Well you haven't taken into account the curfew at SYD, the runway length differential meaning the larger widebodies can't use the shorter 16L/34R

Yes I have. LHR also has a curfew. As for 16L/34R, 8000 ft is plenty long for widebodies to land on, so your point is not relevant. Use 34L for departures and 34R for arrivals. LHR does the same kind of thing with segregated ops and it can push 470,000 movements.

SYD's issues are all politics, nothing else. The airport can easily handle 400,000+ movements TODAY.

[Edited 2015-03-09 06:31:29]
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jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):
In addition to the bilateral, isn't there a severe shortage of slots at HKG as well?

Some shortage, but CX and KA holds so many of them I don't see it being an issue to move their flights around to accommodate higher-profile flights like a 77W to SYD

The shortage should go away if the satellite terminal and 3rd runway are approved and completed, hopefully before 2021
 
wzafar
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:11 pm

Surely one of these CX flights should have an F cabin? Don't understand why they have F to so many other destinations but not Australia...
 
qf002
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 5):
Mr Sandilands has a good article today on this subject.

Mr Sandilands has an annoying habit of misrepresenting situations/events to better fit his own political agenda -- this particular article is no different.

As has already been mentioned, the issue is not congestion at SYD but the bilateral agreement which limits the number of flights CX can operate into the four major capitals (SYD, MEL, BNE and PER). CX could add another dozen flights a day to SYD if they had the rights to do so.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
SYD's issues are all politics, nothing else. The airport can easily handle 400,000+ movements TODAY.

Neither the curfew nor the cap prevent SYD from handling 400k movements per year (if there were 80 movements in every single operating hour of the year then we are talking just a touch under 500k movements total).
 
lutfi
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting wzafar (Reply 13):
Surely one of these CX flights should have an F cabin? Don't understand why they have F to so many other destinations but not Australia...

Australia is still quite an egalitarian culture. With flat bed business class, not many people who care to fly first class.
 
Kashmon
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting lutfi (Reply 15):

you have got to be kidding me...
QF/EK/SQ must be thus simply blowing their money by sending First class to Aus...

another nutty A.net opinion.
 
Scanorama
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:09 am

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 16):
Australia is still quite an egalitarian culture. With flat bed business class, not many people who care to fly first class.

Nah CX just has other destinations which have higher demand and yields for First Class than Australia - and flights to and from Australia are relatively short compare to the rest of CX long haul destinations - thus First Class is probably better be utilised elsewhere.

It's good news for SYD spotters, at last the CX 77Ws will appear during daylight!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:31 am

When you can have a 340 seater with no first class vs a 275 seater with first class, you can only send it to those destinations where the yield is high enough to offset the loss of all those seats.
 
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:26 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):

You're ignoring that for A330 sized aircraft 34R/16L is limited to domestic departures only, so your point still isn't relevant.

Then again, given that the limitations are entirely political, whatever point you are trying to make is utterly meaningless. The status quo certainly isn't changing any time soon.
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777Jet
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:51 am

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):
The restriction of slots CX has to Australia means one thing - increasing the size of planes they use.

Great news! Finally!

Good to see CX take the common sense route, and, moreover, really the only option  

I can't wait to see the CX 77W in SYD  
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
The status quo certainly isn't changing any time soon.

If SYD wants to ever handle 470,000 movements in a smooth and efficient matter, then the status quo has no choice but to change. Countries such as the UK and Oz are so far behind the curve ball when it comes to these things. Stupid restrictions and operational procedures that dont accomplish anything is the norm in these countries. Maybe it's a commonwealth thing.

I'm glad at least LHR is now at the forefront of something . They will be the first international airport implementing time based separation this month i believe.
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The Coachman
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:39 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
Yes I have. LHR also has a curfew. As for 16L/34R, 8000 ft is plenty long for widebodies to land on, so your point is not relevant. Use 34L for departures and 34R for arrivals. LHR does the same kind of thing with segregated ops and it can push 470,000 movements.

SYD's issues are all politics, nothing else. The airport can easily handle 400,000+ movements TODAY.

You've not taken into account the terminal configuration which means unlike HKG or LHR, you can't use the runways the same way they can.

Yes the 80 movements/hour is limited but there are further logistical issues that are at play here.
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RE: CX To Send 2x Daily 77Ws To SYD From 1 Oct

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:07 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 21):

I think the distance between the runways is an issue in SYD, hence the PRM approaches, not to mention taxiway restrictions from the eastern runway, I dont think you can taxi a 77W to/from that.
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