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777Jet
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Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:21 pm

Part 75 was getting too long with over 250 replies so I made a new thread to continue the discussion:

www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6329756/

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777Jet
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 242):
I think it needs to be pointed out that the majority of contributors to this thread are quite clearly trying to understand what really happened and are holding back on declaring any definitive "it's a fact" conclusions while there is still undiscovered evidence to be found, e.g. the aircraft. Not being 100% convinced that the Captain did it is not the same as saying he didn't do it.

The "flying-saucer/nuke-bombs/dastardly government plot" theories are only coming from a handful of contributors and are not being supported by the aforementioned majority. All the views that don't 100% support that the Captain definitely did it cannot be lumped together as one body of thought.

As I see it,

most believe either:

1) the Captain may or may not have done it but there are plenty of unanswered questions either way

or

2) the "Captain did it" is the most likely (or least unlikely), explanation but accept it isn't an undisputed fact,

and in addition:

3) a small number believe it to be an undisputed fact that the Captain did it,

4) a small number believe it was something more sinister involving governments, secret weapons, a nuclear device, kidnapping, etc.

Thanks for that summary.

I still believe point 2) - "the "Captain did it" is the most likely (or least unlikely), explanation but accept it isn't an undisputed fact"

Having said that, I still agree with your premise in point 1) - "the Captain may or may not have done it but there are plenty of unanswered questions either way"

There are still way too many questions that need answers, way too many...

Quoting tailskid (Reply 255):
I am a pilot, a VFR pilot, but I do understand the issue made here. It's not complex at all.

If this were a Sherlock Holmes type of case about a stolen laptop or something like that, sure a delay would be meaningless, there have even been pilots who put it off for a moment and then forgot to report in, and there have been cases of that where the controller didn't notice a failure to check in right away either.

But this event is quite different from any other event in airline history, because at that moment (one minute seven seconds later) MH370 began its disappearance when the Mode S was set to standby.

From the time of acknowledgement of turnover at 1:19:29 until the time Thailand's radar saw 9MMRO approaching the coast near Koto Bharu (1:28) is only eight and a half minutes, so we have to assume that the plane was already turning immediately after the turnover response at 1:19:29.

Out of context, sure a little delay means little, but in context there is no other way to explain it than to see it as deliberate.

Just deliberate? As in, it was delibertae but you accept that it could have been done by somebody / persons other than the captain?
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benjjk
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:50 pm

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...plane/story-fnizu68q-1227256227487

In July last year a MAS branded towelette was apparently found on a West Australian beach. It is yet to be confirmed that it belonged to MH370, so be skeptical, but this could be an interesting find.
 
AR385
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:51 pm

Given what I´ve read of what was released yesterday, in my opinion this accident is turning to be plausible only under two scenarios:

1) A struggle in the cockpit between who knows. That suits the turn to the right at IGARI before the turn to the left to return to Peninsular Malaysia. But that would not explain the subtle variations in altitude revealed yesterday if both the crew members were incapacitated under that struggle. That leads me to believe that neither of the crew members were responsible for such struggle but were incapacitated by another party. Somebody who was able to do the later maneuvers (skirting Indonesia) to then set final course for Antarctica.

2) Or, some sort of failure that disabled all aircraft comms systems and put the crew in a major struggle to control the aircraft. Something that at the same time incapacitated them somewhat initially but not terribly. That would explain the altitude variations, either by the crew struggling to control the aircraft, by being subtly incapacitated initially or by the nature of the failure itself. Then, the crew succumbing to hipoxia, which will also explain the maneuvers later seen. I can imagine crew member regaining some type of semi conscious state at least a few times and attempting some type of maneuver before succumbing to unconsciousness again, this time definitely, and the plane heading towards Antarctica.

I really can´t imagine anything else. From what I read the 777 has such redundancy that it is not far fetched to even in a failure that would kill the crew and disable many systems, still remain flyable on auto.

The only thing that bothers me here is that such a failure has not been seen before and has not been repeated. But it does make me question if something like the fire we saw with the Egyptair 777 at stand could be a clue.

The theory of the "Captain did it" really is not making a lot of sense given what we now know.
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
As in, it was delibertae but you accept that it could have been done by somebody / persons other than the captain?

Like who?
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting benjjk (Reply 2):
In July last year a MAS branded towelette was apparently found on a West Australian beach. It is yet to be confirmed that it belonged to MH370, so be skeptical, but this could be an interesting find.

It could have been from MH370. It could also be a stunt by somebody who wants a bit of attention. Who really knows.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 4):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
As in, it was delibertae but you accept that it could have been done by somebody / persons other than the captain?

Like who?

A hi-jacker / hi-jackers.
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 262):
Indeed. How many accident reports do not contain words to that effect?
It's a disclaimer David.

"A disclaimer is generally any statement intended to specify or delimit the scope of rights and obligations that may be exercised and enforced by parties in a legally recognized relationship. In contrast to other terms for legally operative language, the term disclaimer usually implies situations that involve some level of uncertainty, waiver, or risk."
Wikipedia

Quoting David L (Reply 262):
Apparently many of us have a lot more faith in the professional and legal integrity of the NTSB, AAIB, BEA, ATSB, etc. than you do. If your allegations are true then what would that say about the suitability of those organisations to conduct any accident investigations?

One of the more unscrupulous methods of debate is to state your opponents claim in an exaggerated manner and then attack that statement of your own - and that is exactly what you are doing here.

I have not questioned the professional and legal integrity of those Orgs. what I have done is to say that even if these Orgs had a part in the writing of the Interim Report (which I doubt very much) they were completely dependent on the data provided by Hishammuddin.

The lawyer here has shined some light on this subject: he tells us that Malaysia is the one who is writing the interim report and will be writing the final report. The underline below is mine.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 172):
Article 5.12 "The State conducting the investigation of an accident or incident shall not make the following records available for purposes other than accident or incident investigation ... c) medical or private information regarding persons involved in the accident or incident; ... e) opinions expressed in the analysis of information."

The part played by the other participants is stated here:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 172):
Under Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation the NTSB is a required participant in the investigation (state of manufacture) and has the right under article 6.3 to have a dissenting report included in the final report.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:09 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 5):
Quoting tailskid (Reply 4):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
As in, it was delibertae but you accept that it could have been done by somebody / persons other than the captain?

Like who?

A hi-jacker / hi-jackers.

Mr tailskid,

Do you accept that it is *possible* that MH370 *could* have been a hi-jack or failed hi-jack attempt?

Or do you rule it out 100% and are still 100% sure that the captain is 100% guilty?

777Jet
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tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 7):
Do you accept that it is *possible* that MH370 *could* have been a hi-jack or failed hi-jack attempt?
Or do you rule it out 100% and are still 100% sure that the captain is 100% guilty?

I rule it out 100% for several reasons:

1. All the passengers are known and they have all been vetted.
2. The cabin crew have been looked into also.
3. Post 9-11 the flight deck security barrier is unbreachable especially within the time constraints in this diversion.
4. Captain Zaharie was (unexpectedly) the person who received the release from KLATCC at 1:19:29. Were he to have been under attack he would have been able to signal the ATC with a hijack code.

Along with this, as supporting evidence, the fact that Zaharie answered the release from the FIR indicates that he was alone in the flight deck because Fariq had handled all the previous communications with ATC. From the time of release from KLATCC (1:19:29) until Thailand reported MH370 approaching Koto Bharu (1:28) is only eight minutes and thirty one seconds. There was barely enough time for Zaharie to complete the necessary 165° turn and make good the sixty or so NM to the point Thailand (loosely) described in that eight and a half minutes.

There was no time for a hijacking to have taken place.

Then there is all the supporting evidence about Zaharie's personal outlook on life: "there is a rebel in each and everyone of us.. let it out! dont waste your life on mundane life style. When is it enough?" etc etc etc etc.

Oh, and Faraq is as clean as a whistle, he was an establishment kid engaged to a drop dead good looking lady who was from money and who also was a commercial pilot.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:51 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
It's a disclaimer David.

Rubbish. It's a founding principle of Annex 13 to the International Convention on Civil Aviation, of which you are apparently profoundly ignorant, despite being given many references.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
what I have done is to say that even if these Orgs had a part in the writing of the Interim Report (which I doubt very much)

More ignorance.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 172):
Article 5.12 "The State conducting the investigation of an accident or incident shall not make the following records available for purposes other than accident or incident investigation ... c) medical or private information regarding persons involved in the accident or incident; ... e) opinions expressed in the analysis of information."

The part played by the other participants is stated here:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 172):
Under Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation the NTSB is a required participant in the investigation (state of manufacture) and has the right under article 6.3 to have a dissenting report included in the final report.

As usual, you're completely and utterly misrepresenting what I said. What I quoted, in another context completely,are the restraints on release of information, which has [b[nothing[/b] to do to do with their rights to participate in the investigation and publish dissenting reports).

I'm sure everyone else on here can see through it, but what you have addressed (selectively - because I was addressing another issue) does not address the participation of other entities.

Please refer to articles 5 and 6 of Annex 13 to the International Convention - if you can read. which I'm beginning to doubt.

Please explain to me how the U.S., Australian, British, French, Singaporean, Chinese, Indonesian and Malaysian investigative authorities are all complicit frauds
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
Along with this, as supporting evidence, the fact that Zaharie answered the release from the FIR indicates that he was alone in the flight deck because Fariq had handled all the previous communications with ATC.

Doubt it, Fariq was undergoing line training and as PNF he would be handling the comms. Unlikely he wouldn't be present or have left at an earlier stage.

Plus, he would attempt to gain entry if locked out. Much easier to execute this without other crew or passengers knowing anything is amiss. There is a crash axe handy
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:04 am

This towelette could easily be from MH370.
It give aprx 5 km a day.
So maybe in the next days or week, some other little debris will add up.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
1) A struggle in the cockpit between who knows. That suits the turn to the right at IGARI before the turn to the left to return to Peninsular Malaysia. But that would not explain the subtle variations in altitude revealed yesterday if both the crew members were incapacitated under that struggle. That leads me to believe that neither of the crew members were responsible for such struggle but were incapacitated by another party. Somebody who was able to do the later maneuvers (skirting Indonesia) to then set final course for Antarctica.

Very plausible, and I could add to it that the altitude variation could be while the hi-jacker got hands on the machine.



The E/E bay door beeing accessible is somehow frightening.
Can someone tell me if from the E/E bay, one could hear the radio communication?
This way the timing would be easier for the hi-jacker.

But I miss to see a motive to all that.

If I am an hi-jacker, and I have the plane in control, I would not think to go ditch in silence .

So is my problem with the hi-jacking possibility.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
3. Post 9-11 the flight deck security barrier is unbreachable especially within the time constraints in this diversion.

If one goes to yhe E/Ebay and from there disable the cockpit's door lock, it is simple to do.
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 10):
Doubt it, Fariq was undergoing line training and as PNF he would be handling the comms.

What do you doubt? That Zaharie received the FIS release?

There's no doubt about that, his voice was recognized by four of his pilot friends as well as his mother.

Edit:: It was his wife, not his mother.
The wife of the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines plane has broken her silence and revealed that her husband Zaharie Ahmad Shah spoke the final words from the cockpit, not the co-pilot, as the airline has said.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-words-from-cockpit-says-wife.html

[Edited 2015-03-09 18:10:29]
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 12):
What do you doubt? That Zaharie received the FIS release?

No I was referring to the second part of what you said, I doubt he was alone in the flight deck.
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:24 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 13):
No I was referring to the second part of what you said, I doubt he was alone in the flight deck.

You realize that this was almost at the moment of the turnaround? You would have to be suggesting that they both were in on it from what you are saying. And you do know that Fariq was very junior and that Zaharie could have sent him on an errand in the cabin - right?

What's your theory?
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 10):
Plus, he would attempt to gain entry if locked out. Much easier to execute this without other crew or passengers knowing anything is amiss. There is a crash axe handy

Two things.
The left AC bus apparently was powered down, among other things this would remove power from the door lock which would make it impossible to unlock except from the inside.

Also, everything I've heard about the post 9-11 flight deck doors tells me that they would be impervious to a fire axe.

[Edited 2015-03-09 18:38:28]
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 14):
You would have to be suggesting that they both were in on it from what you are saying. And you do know that Fariq was very junior and that Zaharie could have sent him on an errand in the cabin - right?

That's not what I meant. If Zaharie did take over the aircraft, it would be a lot easier to disable his co-pilot as opposed to sending him out. If Fariq left the flight deck he would attempt to regain access. Plus the passengers would be aware that something is off.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 15):
fire axe

I didn't mean for re-entry.
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 16):
Plus the passengers would be aware that something is off.

The passengers knew something was up when some of their ears started hurting like hell and it got very cold. A few minutes later they became unaware again.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:27 am

Zaharie would not make the transponder switch mistake, though.

However, it occurs to me that one might make that "error" as a way to alert authorities to distress?

IOW, you are ordered to turn off the transponder, so you turn it to "off"...
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 18):
Zaharie would not make the transponder switch mistake, though.

I don't see that as a mistake. I'm assuming you're referring to switching it to standby.

I think he did that to test the waters with ATC before he killed the transponder altogether.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 19):
I think he did that to test the waters with ATC before he killed the transponder altogether.

Couldn't he simply say he was having a transponder problem and get plenty of getaway time, if ATC noticed.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:54 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 20):
Couldn't he simply say he was having a transponder problem and get plenty of getaway time, if ATC noticed.

If it was noticed that he turned off the ID code ( I still want to call it IFF) he might have done that. But when it went unnoticed he knew he was clear to shut the transponder down altogether.

Upon transponder shutdown might have been when he began his turn, but there seems no way to pin that down.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:34 am

I think about it in this order from most to least likely:

Someone didn't quite know how the switch worked.

Someone was trying to quietly signal ATC to pay attention to MH370.

A malfunction mimicked the switch positions.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:30 am

So, one of the two Black Boxes had an expired battery for its emergency locator beacon, or "pinger" -- apparently the one for the Flight Data Recorder, not the Cockpit Voice Recorder.

This certainly could have hampered the so far unsuccessful search for MH370, and compensation may be due to Australia for its wasted efforts, although I believe Oz would never make a stink about the matter.

It points toward other possible MX lapses at MH, though any such might be completely unrelated to MH370. It also shows that MH's MX records were accurate enough to reveal the discrepancy, a good thing.

In my experience at a U.S. airline, FDRs and CVRs are checked at specified intervals, and replaced, even if still perfectly functional, at other intervals -- all for safety.

Why were they flying with an FDR whose pinger battery had expired a year before?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:53 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 23):

Based on the latest press release by MH

Quote:
As stated in the findings of the report, the Engineering Maintenance System was not updated correctly when the ULB battery was first installed. This was a maintenance scheduling oversight.

If I understand it correctly, someone had made an error during routine maintenance & the replacement of the FDR was not correctly reflected in their system.

The press release can be found at http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh370.html
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NAV30
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:03 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 23):
Why were they flying with an FDR whose pinger battery had expired a year before?

You make some good points, Schweigend.

Must admit to being surprised that so many posters on here seem to be unalterably convinced that this was a case of 'pilot suicide.' In the past I had to help investigate two suicides - one 'successful,' one thankfully not. Both guys left suicide notes, explaining why they had decided on suicide. A policeman told me that, depending on nationality/background, suicides usually left notes in 40%/60% of cases.

In this case, the captain's last recorded words (to ATC) were "All right, goodnight." Can't help feeling that if he was indeed intent on crashing the aeroplane and killing everyone on board, he'd have said something a bit more memorable?  

The other possibility, of course, is that there was a major malfunction (like, say, sudden de-pressurisation) which killed everyone on board, in a very few minutes - after which the aeroplane crashed? Or, very possibly, an explosion?

There is already evidence that maintenance standards appear to have been poor - the apparently non-functioning FDR seems to point in that direction? Personally I think that a sudden catastrophic failure of the aircraft's systems is a lot more likely than 'pilot suicide'?
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:44 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):
There is already evidence that maintenance standards appear to have been poor -

I don't know if MX standards overall have been poor, but the "maintenance scheduling oversight" admitted by MH in the press release linked by Flying Disk could mean that other "oversights" have happened.... Still might have nothing to do with this case.

BTW, I liked the forthright tone of the press release, even as it confirmed a sort of ineptness. (I don't mean to malign MH.)

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):
the apparently non-functioning FDR seems to point in that direction? Personally I think that a sudden catastrophic failure of the aircraft's systems is a lot more likely than 'pilot suicide'?

The FDR would have been functional, even if its pinger battery was past-date, and it should have recorded useful data until its power was cut off. If by Grace it is ever recovered, we should expect to find plenty of data there.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:11 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):
In this case, the captain's last recorded words (to ATC) were "All right, goodnight." Can't help feeling that if he was indeed intent on crashing the aeroplane and killing everyone on board, he'd have said something a bit more memorable?

Actually, the Captain's last words as per the transcript was "Good Night, Malaysian 370".

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 26):
I don't know if MX standards overall have been poor, but the "maintenance scheduling oversight" admitted by MH in the press release linked by Flying Disk could mean that other "oversights" have happened.... Still might have nothing to do with this case.

There was a major hoo-hah back in 2012 over the aborted share swap exercise between AirAsia & MH which saw the appointment of an AirAsia man as Head of Engineering - those opposing the union alluded to lower maintenance standards a la AirAsia. But then again these same people weren't really credible to begin so to be honest I don't really put much weight into their allegations.

Having flown MH exclusively over the last couple of years I had 0 experience of any technical issues whatsoever & I am confident enought that I'll fly with them again any time.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 7):
Do you accept that it is *possible* that MH370 *could* have been a hi-jack or failed hi-jack attempt?
Or do you rule it out 100% and are still 100% sure that the captain is 100% guilty?

I rule it out 100% for several reasons:
Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
1. All the passengers are known and they have all been vetted.

Just because all of the passengers have been vetted and might have a clean sheet on paper doesn't mean that one or more of them were not part of an attempted hi-jack of MH370 for whatever reason.

BTW who vetted the pax? I hope one of the more trusted authorities and not Hishammuddin's mates...

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
Along with this, as supporting evidence, the fact that Zaharie answered the release from the FIR indicates that he was alone in the flight deck because Fariq had handled all the previous communications with ATC.

So now you are also sure that Zaharie was alone in the cockpit... Have you told the authorities this vital information because I'm sure that they do not know this as fact    
Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
Oh, and Faraq is as clean as a whistle, he was an establishment kid engaged to a drop dead good looking lady who was from money and who also was a commercial pilot.

I do agree that Fariq's backgound is pretty clean, and that he was "engaged to a drop dead good looking lady who was from money and who also was a commercial pilot."  
Quoting Schweigend (Reply 23):
This certainly could have hampered the so far unsuccessful search for MH370, and compensation may be due to Australia for its wasted efforts, although I believe Oz would never make a stink about the matter.

I also don't believe the Australians will make a stink about compensation because of the pinger battery issue, but good on them if they do.

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):
The other possibility, of course, is that there was a major malfunction (like, say, sudden de-pressurisation) which killed everyone on board, in a very few minutes - after which the aeroplane crashed?

Where do you think it crashed?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):

In this case, the captain's last recorded words (to ATC) were "All right, goodnight." Can't help feeling that if he was indeed intent on crashing the aeroplane and killing everyone on board, he'd have said something a bit more memorable?  

Clearly if this were the case, he was attempting to commit suicide via disappearing without a trace, and making it not look like a suicide, so don't you think a suicide note or a grand ATC farewell might be a wee bit counter-productive to these ends?

[Edited 2015-03-10 03:04:43]
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Rara
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:25 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):
so many posters on here seem to be unalterably convinced that this was a case of 'pilot suicide.'

I think it's really just two (or one). The number of posts can be deceiving.


What I wanted to ask though (since I haven't read the report) - whatever happened to the investigation into the Captain's flight simulator? I remember rumours that they found deleted evidence of landing practices on some isolated island or some such? Was there anything to it, and is that mentioned in the report at all?
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
It's a disclaimer David

Not for the first time, you've chosen to play word games with the least significant part of someone's quote and skipped over the more significant part.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
One of the more unscrupulous methods of debate is to state your opponents claim in an exaggerated manner and then attack that statement of your own - and that is exactly what you are doing here.

   Providing some perspective is "unscrupulous" now?

Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
I have not questioned the professional and legal integrity of those Orgs. what I have done is to say that even if these Orgs had a part in the writing of the Interim Report (which I doubt very much) they were completely dependent on the data provided by Hishammuddin.

And yet, there you go again. You are explicitly saying that you doubt very much that the NTSB, AAIB, etc., played any part in the writing of the report. If that's the case and they're just standing aside and letting it all happen, then those organisations would be performing below the standards expected of them. You can't have it both ways - my earlier ("unscrupulous") comments stand.

I mean no disrespect to Malaysia but I wonder how much data could have been "provided by Hishammuddin" and analysed without the benefit of the experience offered by the NTSB, AAIB, BEA, ATSB, etc.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
Along with this, as supporting evidence, the fact that Zaharie answered the release from the FIR indicates that he was alone in the flight deck because Fariq had handled all the previous communications with ATC.

This has been commented on by numerous airline pilots - it's not all that that unusual, for various reasons. It's another box to tick, that's all.

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
I think it's really just two (or one). The number of posts can be deceiving.

   Correct.

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
whatever happened to the investigation into the Captain's flight simulator? I remember rumours that they found deleted evidence of landing practices on some isolated island or some such?

That was another opportunity for Hishammuddin to "hang" Zaharie and yet ultimately the conclusion was that there was nothing significant found. It's not even mentioned in the report.
 
AIRWALK
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:52 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 25):
Must admit to being surprised that so many posters on here seem to be unalterably convinced that this was a case of 'pilot suicide.'

Depends what you mean by suicide, the disappearance may have nothing to do with the passengers or pilots life, it could have just been done to make a point.

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
What I wanted to ask though (since I haven't read the report) - whatever happened to the investigation into the Captain's flight simulator? I remember rumours that they found deleted evidence of landing practices on some isolated island or some such? Was there anything to it, and is that mentioned in the report at all?

I didn't see it mentioned
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
exfss
Posts: 76
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:05 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
I rule it out 100% for several reasons

Only this (among all your post tailskid ) tell me that you are not here to find the truth, you are here to push your truth.

That is what I call having an agenda.
It is something big, to say that this interim report is bully just because it does not suit ''your truth''.

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
I think it's really just two (or one). The number of posts can be deceiving.

I agree. Only one (well...or two!)have already everything figured out based mostly on a poem written on Facebook.
The whole rest of poster here are still questionning rather than preaching.
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
exfss
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:18 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
What I wanted to ask though (since I haven't read the report) - whatever happened to the investigation into the Captain's flight simulator?

There was a tv special about mh370 at Radio Canada . Called ''the big story.
They were interviewing the captain 's brother in law.
He was saying the simulator had broken in 2013, and that the captain could not have use it .

About his supposively bad marriage, Zaharie 's wife brother is saying that everytime he would fly, his sister would go to her older son to live there, in order not to be alone ''in a big house''.
It was , as he is saying, an established routine.

[Edited 2015-03-10 04:22:29]
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 4):
Like who?

Let's see...
You rule out all the pax as per:

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
1. All the passengers are known and they have all been vetted.

You rule out all the cabin crew as per:

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
2. The cabin crew have been looked into also.

But, you don't think Zaharie was looked into as well?

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
4. Captain Zaharie was (unexpectedly) the person who received the release from KLATCC at 1:19:29. Were he to have been under attack he would have been able to signal the ATC with a hijack code.

I guess it's one rule for everyone not in the way of your theory, and another for anyone in the way of your theory.

Quoting exfss (Reply 33):
Only this (among all your post tailskid ) tell me that you are not here to find the truth, you are here to push your truth.

He won't admit it. He'll just turn it around. I think the last 25 threads or so has been mainly Tailskid trying to push his truth but people are resisting or simply left...
Anyone who gets in his way gets called as propaganda, obfuscation, or under the payroll of the Malaysian government (which I find absolutely hilarious because in some other places, insisting "the captain did it", is suspected as being under the payroll of the Malaysian ruling party...    )
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
exfss
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:27 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 35):
He won't admit it

does he need to?
I dont...
 
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:45 am

I don't see how the older than expected FDR pinger battery makes any difference. It wasn't a dead battery, it was just a battery in service longer than specified.

Their range is not that great, even with full battery power.

You have to have a good idea of where to listen for the pingers in the first place, in order for the pingers to be useful.
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
I rule it out 100% for several reasons:

1. All the passengers are known and they have all been vetted.
2. The cabin crew have been looked into also.

Why did you miss the fact that all passengers, crew, AND pilots have been vetted?

If you think that they lied about Zaharie's character then you cannot rule out the fact that they lied about anybody else onboard.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 8):
Oh, and Faraq is as clean as a whistle, he was an establishment kid engaged to a drop dead good looking lady who was from money and who also was a commercial pilot.

LOL ... I wonder how many terrorists, serial killers, child molesters fit this description ....not saying he had anything to do with it, but it's hardly evidence to the contrary!

Only those poor guys married to ugly women are terrorists.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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Moose135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:58 pm

Quoting exfss (Reply 33):
Only one (well...or two!)have already everything figured out based mostly on a poem written on Facebook.
Don't forget that scary picture of him with the meat cleaver!  

Quoting bond007 (Reply 38):
LOL ... I wonder how many terrorists, serial killers, child molesters fit this description ....not saying he had anything to do with it, but it's hardly evidence to the contrary!

It's always the quiet ones...
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 31):
Quoting tailskid (Reply 6):
It's a disclaimer David

Not for the first time, you've chosen to play word games with the least significant part of someone's quote and skipped over the more significant part.

A statement included in a document which limits the scope of the document, as in this case limiting it to the purposes of airline safety and specifically excluding it from determination of guilt or fault is a disclaimer. I can't imagine why you would want to argue about that. Let alone use it for an excuse to throw insults around.

And in any case it's not at all germane to the discussion of what happened to MH370.
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 35):
But, you don't think Zaharie was looked into as well?

The passengers were apparently found to be normal business persons or vacationers; or as in the case of the two Iranian's escaping Iran, it could be reasonably ascertained that their purpose for being on the flight was benign. There were no delta force members or political radicals in the cabin (although there was a political radical on the flight deck.)

In Zaharie's case they seemed to have skipped over his deeply felt and rather extreme political views "there is a rebel in each and everyone of us.. let it out! don't waste your life on mundane life style. When is it enough? - so its time they try to dismantle us. We r not going to be quiet. ".

Also, how could any psychological assessment of a man who is in the process of ending a 30 year marriage gloss over that kind of a fact? The psychological assessment of Zaharie is an obvious whitewash.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4326
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:44 pm

The Malaysian government has every reason to cover up any sort of suspicion on Zaharie.

Do really think they wish for the stupid continued political gamesmanship regarding Anwar Ibrahim and their stupid laws to be tied or suspected as an impetus for this national tragedy and national embarrassment?

Do the math.


Tailskid, you are completely right, and while its very hard to be conclusive about any of this its almost comical how people will bend over backwards to do anything but admit deliberate suicidal action by Captain Shah is the resoundingly likely scenario.

The only question I have left is if this were premeditated in pre-flight or stemming from a political based altercation between the pilots during the flight.

If we're talking about narrowing it down to the pilots.. which we should... who was the last on the radio? Who had the ability to order the other out? Whose cell phone was turned on apparently in an effort to contact ground about what was going on? While coincidentally they were low enough over Penang to have the signal picked up. One last joyride over Penang. Who is from Penang?

Do the math.

[Edited 2015-03-10 08:49:40]
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
jawake
Posts: 104
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:45 pm

Sorry, if this has been discussed before, but I have long been curious about this question.

For sake of discussion, let's assume the plane is in the ocean somewhere. What scenario(s) would allow the plane to leave nothing floating on the surface of the ocean?

Every time I think about this, I can't see how the plane could be at the bottom of the ocean and not leave a seat cushion or some part floating on the surface. It doesn't seem possible. But I am not that smart, so maybe someone here could explain how that is possible. Or maybe it isn't and we just haven't found the debris yet.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:50 pm

The ocean is big and small stuff is hard to find, and bigger stuff sinks when you haven't figured out the location for weeks, if not months.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 40):
A statement included in a document which limits the scope of the document, as in this case limiting it to the purposes of airline safety and specifically excluding it from determination of guilt or fault is a disclaimer.

Utter rubbish again. It comes straight from article 3.1 of Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation which states:

"OBJECTIVE OF THE INVESTIGATION
3.1 The sole objective of the investigation of an accident or incident shall be the prevention of accidents and incidents. It is not the purpose of this activity to apportion blame or liability."

The source is even cited in the report, right under the statement. Every single investigation anywhere in the world is conducted under this principle.

[Edited 2015-03-10 09:10:58]
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 42):
likely scenario.

I think many, if not most folks here agree, that it's the 'likely scenario' ....

Nobody here can possibly know conclusively, because there is no evidence available to prove this.

It's simply impossible to say, without doubt, that he did it. I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 41):
Also, how could any psychological assessment of a man who is in the process of ending a 30 year marriage gloss over that kind of a fact?

It didn't. It explicitly states in section 1.5.8:

"The Captain’s ability to handle stress at work and home was good. There was no known history of apathy, anxiety, or irritability. There were no significant changes in his life style, interpersonal conflict or family stresses.

Perhaps you should read it, instead of posting rubbish.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:17 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 47):
There were no significant changes in his life style,

LOL there were no changes in his lifestyle other that his wife of thirty years was in the process of moving out.

I'm done with responding to your posts, but this one was too good to pass up.
 
exfss
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:54 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 76

Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:19 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 48):
LOL there were no changes in his lifestyle other that his wife of thirty years was in the process of moving out.

This is not true.
She was NOT moving out at all.
Stop reading tabloid...
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.

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