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yyz717
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Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:15 pm

According to atdb.org, Rouge has ordered 2 new-build 321s, to be delivered in Dec 2015 and Jan 2016.

MSN 6844/6905

This is surprising for 2 reasons:
1. While I had read on this site that Rouge would not be getting any more mainline NB's transferred in, I would have thought that any further acquisitions would have been for used aircraft, not new, to lower the acquisition or lease costs.
2. This order would appear to maintain Rouge with a longterm Airbus NB fleet while AC mainline transitions to a Boeing NB fleet, thus eliminating any opportunity for fleet commonality, similar to Qantas and Jetstar.

This is not surprising in that a Rouge 321 fleet will be very efficient from a CASM standpoint (much more so than the 319) and competitive with SWG/TS/Canjet 738s, while also maintaining commonality with the 319 fleet.
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q120
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:28 pm

Rouge will eventually be the domestic / sun destination carrier for Air Canada and the mainline product will only be used on international destinations. Thats my prediction. So if an order for new aircraft is factual, this could be the next step to place these aircraft on current high yield domestic routes. Perhaps the rapid air flights.
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Beatyair
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:50 pm

I don't know why they would not transfer 2 over from the main line fleet and replace the two transferred A321's with 767's ,until 2017 when the 737-9 Max is in hand.
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:51 pm

Well, if we go with Rouge's originally declared purpose, this is the right aircraft to fight al the leisure carriers and their 738's.
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting q120 (Reply 1):
Rouge will eventually be the domestic / sun destination carrier for Air Canada and the mainline product will only be used on international destinations. Thats my prediction. So if an order for new aircraft is factual, this could be the next step to place these aircraft on current high yield domestic routes. Perhaps the rapid air flights.

So who would fly the MAX and where would they put them all?

Quoting beatyair (Reply 2):

I don't know why they would not transfer 2 over from the main line fleet and replace the two transferred A321's with 767's ,until 2017 when the 737-9 Max is in hand.

Good deal on the outgoing ceo's?

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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting q120 (Reply 1):
Rouge will eventually be the domestic / sun destination carrier for Air Canada and the mainline product will only be used on international destinations.

I don't think this will happen any time soon. From my understanding, due to the scope clause, the Rouge fleet will be limited to a maximum of 50 a/c, 25 A319 or in this case another NB type, and 25 763. For domestic and sun destinations, there will need to be more than 50 a/c in the fleet.
I do agree with Neil, I too am surprised with this order. While I can understand Rouge wanting an a/c with extra capacity to fill the gap between the 319 and 763, I'm very surprised that an order for two new build 321's would be placed over buying or leasing 2 previously loved 321's. Maybe Airbus had some very attractive pricing or other incentives in place for ZX, although after losing the AC NB order to the 737MAX, I can't see Airbus going out of their way for a small order of only 2 a/c.
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sixtyseven
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:12 pm

AC will ALWAYS fly domestically. Star Alliance would require it for their code sharing either from a common sense aspect or a contractual one.

As for Airbus types being Rouges aircraft on a permanent basis, don't count on it.

Once mainline receives their last 787, rouge will be able to start replacing 767s with newer aircraft. I would suggest the 787 options they hold would point to that airframe. Add to that the heavily discounted price they got on it I wouldn't see AC creating a mish mashed fleet over at Rouge.

To be honest I think this order is hogwash.

Let's remember a respected aviation magazine announced the NEO order as a done deal a week before they were proven totally wrong.

There's enough flexibility to switch existing mainline 320s/321s into Rouge that an order would only be required if lift required it.

[Edited 2015-03-10 13:15:24]
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:14 pm

Perhaps AC wants to use the A321LR on Halifax - Europe routes?

I thought Halifax was a great city when I visited it some years ago, so there might be some O/D plus YHZ can be a Rouge hub with the A321LR bringing pax to/from Europe and other Rouge aircraft offering connections YHZ-North America... similar to Icelandair, but using YHZ instead of KEF.
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ytz
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:49 pm

Quoting q120 (Reply 1):
Rouge will eventually be the domestic / sun destination carrier for Air Canada and the mainline product will only be used on international destinations. Thats my prediction. So if an order for new aircraft is factual, this could be the next step to place these aircraft on current high yield domestic routes. Perhaps the rapid air flights.

Sort of agree. But with the interational product (especially hard product in Y) approaching Rouge standards there's all the possibility that AC may just fold itself into Rouge a la Austrian and Tyrolean. There's only a 1" difference in pitch in Y between a mainline 77H and a Rouge 767. And then there's the IFE and wifi difference....also something mainline could migrate to.

All that said, I really don't know what they could do with just 321s for domestic service. If true, chances are it'll be deployed for a sun destination.

Quoting sixtyseven (Reply 6):
Once mainline receives their last 787, rouge will be able to start replacing 767s with newer aircraft. I would suggest the 787 options they hold would point to that airframe.

Agreed. I actually think we'll see the 788s move to Rouge. And AC mainline will only operate 789s and 78Js. That's providing my theory of all AC being Rouged doesn't come first.
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting beatyair (Reply 2):

I don't know why they would not transfer 2 over from the main line fleet and replace the two transferred A321's with 767's ,until 2017 when the 737-9 Max is in hand.
AC needs its 10 A321s just as badly as RV needs them.

Currently 7 out of AC's 10 A321s are airborne and are flying between YUL/YYZ and Florida. 4 out of the 7 to/from FLL. FLL in particular sees the A321 exclusively in the months of Dec, Jan, Feb and March. The two gates they have there aren't able to accommodate a B767, so the biggest plane they can send is the A321. And trust me, at 5 daily each from YYZ and YUL at the peak of winter, demand is there and FLL becomes A321 land, save for the E190/A320 from YOW/YHZ.

And you can't really make FLL an RV destination. There is a decent business class demand to FLL by all the senior citizen snowbirds in winter  . Front of the cabin is always full and some of that folk spend big money and are always loyal to AC. You can't afford to lose that market by "Rouging" the destination.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2015-03-10 15:39:39]
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
The two gates they have there aren't able to accommodate a B767, so the biggest plane they can send is the A321.

Where did they park the A330/767 when they use to send it there (FLL)? I could have sworn I saw their 767 at terminal 2 once, but that was several years ago and I don't know if they moved gates or they were reconfigured (or I was mistaken with my aircraft ID).
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
Where did they park the A330/767 when they use to send it there (FLL)?

It was an A333, in summer of 2011.

http://airlineroute.net/2011/02/17/ac-fll-s11/

And heck if i know where they parked that thing. They probably swapped gates with DL or something. D5 or D8 look like the largest gates at T2 and are operated by DL. Maybe they got one of those. If you have a look at google earth, you can clearly see that D3 and D4, the ones AC has, are not big enough for an A333. Although D3 is definitely larger than D4 and can probably handle a B753, maybe even a B763, but it looks awfully tight.

http://www.ifly.com/fort-lauderdale-...ternational-airport/FLL-Terminal-2

[Edited 2015-03-10 16:54:43]
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beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:45 am

From the AC Press release about the 737 MAX order:

Quote:
Air Canada continues to evaluate the potential replacement of its Embraer E190 fleet with more cost efficient, larger narrowbody aircraft that are better suited to its current and future network strategy. Consistent with this strategy, the agreement with Boeing provides for Boeing to purchase up to 20 of the 45 Embraer E190 aircraft currently in Air Canada's fleet. The E190 aircraft exiting the fleet will be initially replaced with larger narrowbody leased aircraft until the airline takes delivery of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.

Perhaps these two birds are part of the plan of getting more narrowbodies as interim lift until the MAX arrives.

Beech
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:50 am

btw, speaking of AC and its A321s, anyone notice that AC quietly added 9 seats to the A321. From 174 (20/154) to 183 (14/169).
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
The two gates they have there aren't able to accommodate a B767, so the biggest plane they can send is the A321.
AC flew a B767 to FLL yesterday! They seemed to do OK.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
speaking of AC and its A321s, anyone notice that AC quietly added 9 seats to the A321.

About six months ago ... you were expecting a press release and water cannon salute?  

But, with regard to the A321s, technically Air Canada Rouge can not order them, as all of Rouge's aircraft are owned by Air Canada. But with the B737 order pending, it would make it more politically correct to very quickly claim that it was Rouge. However ... when the airframes actually arrive, they could end up anywhere, mainline or Rouge.

AC is (quietly) adding 5 more airbus narrowbodies to the fleet. 2 A320s, FIN 241and 242 and 3 A321s, FINs 461-463. Of course, the rumour of 5 more A330s is running rampant.

[Edited 2015-03-10 18:54:17]
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting sixtyseven (Reply 6):

AC will ALWAYS fly domestically. Star Alliance would require it for their code sharing either from a common sense aspect or a contractual one.

That is not an issue, because with regard to partners, Air Canada and Rouge are one airline. I've been looking for UA reward tickets to several European cities, and half the partner flights I've seen are on Rouge.
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
AC is (quietly) adding 5 more airbus narrowbodies to the fleet. 2 A320s, FIN 241and 242 and 3 A321s, FINs 461-463. Of course, the rumour of 5 more A330s is running rampant.

Will the A320s (Fin 241-242) be new from the factory?
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting hoons90 (Reply 16):

Will the A320s (Fin 241-242) be new from the factory?

No I believe they are coming from Thomas Cook.


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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):

No I believe they are coming from Thomas Cook.


Ah, cool. Thanks!

I wonder if they'll have AVOD like the rest of the A320 fleet. Surely AC must have some leftover seats from the A319s that are now with Rouge?
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:19 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 17):

No I believe they are coming from Thomas Cook.

Yup, both ex-Thomas Cook Belgium. Entered service in Jan and Feb. Built 2002/2003 so newer than most of the other AC 320 fleet. So AC now has 43x 320s in service, alongside 10x 321, 18x 319, and 20x Rouge 319.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
3 A321s, FINs 461-463.

No indication yet on which tails these will be.
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:23 am

Any update on AC mainline new livery?
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting beatyair (Reply 2):



Does AC think they would use the B737900 for domestic and relpace older A319's.?
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting q120 (Reply 1):
Rouge will eventually be the domestic / sun destination carrier for Air Canada and the mainline product will only be used on international destinations. Thats my prediction.

I thought Rouge was used to supplement/support AC domestic/US/Carribean network -- not completely take over. This would be a shocker for me....

Those ordered MAX 737-8/9s could fly YHZ-YYT-LHR but no further....

[Edited 2015-03-11 06:20:19]
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting cosyr (Reply 15):
I've been looking for UA reward tickets to several European cities, and half the partner flights I've seen are on Rouge.

And something has to snap at some point... booking on UA, when it's a Rouge code-share... in BIG RED LETTERS it states very clearly that NO BUSINESS CLASS IS AVAILABLE (referring to the empty middle economy seat concept).

Booking on AC, one has to squint to see the tiny Rouge logo in the booking... otherwise all indications are one is booking the standard AC Business Class product.
 
lostsound
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 20):
Any update on AC mainline new livery?

As of now, I don't believe Air Canada has any plans for a new livery.
The current one will likely be flying around into the 2020s.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 22):
I thought Rouge was used to supplement/support AC domestic/US/Carribean network -- not completely take over. This would be a shocker for me....

The Rouge narrow body mission is to fly low yield, price conscious, leisure markets. Usually southern vacation spots. As mentioned on a lot of earlier threads, with only 25 ships they can not satisfy the demand during high season, and AC mainline flies some routes.

Some southern destinations do not fit well with the Rouge product, so they remain flown by mainline ... BGI, PBI and FLL for example.

Quoting auroralives (Reply 23):
And something has to snap at some point... booking on UA, when it's a Rouge code-share... in BIG RED LETTERS it states very clearly that NO BUSINESS CLASS IS AVAILABLE (referring to the empty middle economy seat concept).

It is very unlikely that a passenger would book on a UAL codeshare and end up on a Rouge A319 flight in Business class. However, the product is not as horrific as people make out. Priority boarding and baggage handling, Maple Leaf Lounge access and meals are identical to mainline. The only difference right now is the seat, with an insert placed between two Economy seats, with Business leg room. During the slow season this summer, however, 12 dedicated Business seats are being installed to replace the 18 convertible Y seats on some of the A319s.
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beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
Of course, the rumour of 5 more A330s is running rampant.

That would be cool; the 330 is a great aircraft, IMHO the best of Airbus (well maybe until the A350, time will tell). AC's original 8 were supposed to be disposed of with the arrival of the 787s but they appear to really work for AC, and it looks like they'll stick around for a while longer.

My wife is flying YUL-YVR soon, on a 330. Reminds me of the good ol' L1011 days. Significant upgauge from when YUL-YVR was all narrowbody.

Any talk if they'll be new builds or used?

Beech
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting beechnut (Reply 26):
That would be cool; the 330 is a great aircraft, IMHO the best of Airbus (well maybe until the A350, time will tell). AC's original 8 were supposed to be disposed of with the arrival of the 787s but they appear to really work for AC, and it looks like they'll stick around for a while longer.

I don't know the mechanics of what went on at HQ 5 years ago when making a fleet plan, but it almost looks like the present growth and demand is a surprise. The A330s were originally supposed to leave the fleet. The B767s were to go to Rouge on a one for one basis when the B787s arrived. But as we now know, they are trying to get a hold of any wide body they can, with B767s going to both mainline and Rouge, and the (rumoured) A330 acquisition, in addition to the present A330s staying until the end of the fleet plan.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
About six months ago ... you were expecting a press release and water cannon salute?

Bare minimum !  

No seriously, i was just interested to see if ppl on here noticed. that's all.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
AC flew a B767 to FLL yesterday!


Where you the one operating that flight? Do you know if it parked at D5 or one of the two AC gates ?

As i was saying a few posts above yours, I noticed after going back in time on google earth that there was a DL B753 parked at D3, and that therefore a B763 might fit there. It's still awfully tight though and I don't know if doing so blocks or restricts the use of D4 to smaller aircraft.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 27):
, but it almost looks like the present growth and demand is a surprise.

Which just goes to show that no matter how much management tries to plan years in advance, thing's change ! Such is the nature of doing business in aviation. I for one am glad that AC is keeping the B763 and A333s a while longer and is adding A320s/A321s.

I am disappointed however that AC opted to go with the 737Max for their narrow-body fleet renewal. Once the A320/A321s leave the fleet, Canada's carriers will all fly B737s, and that's very boring and unoriginal !

[Edited 2015-03-11 15:12:36]
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beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 28):
Once the A320/A321s leave the fleet, Canada's carriers will all fly B737s, and that's very boring and unoriginal !

Not completely, Rouge will still have a sizeable fleet of A319s and perhaps A320s and A321s, to break the monotony.

Beech
 
UA444
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:13 pm

AC should buy some new 767s. They can get them fast and cheap, and to their specs.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:39 pm

Today I heard from one of my sources rumours similar to Longhauler, that AC is anxious for lift. The aforementioned lease of 763's and 320 family also have been a joined by the rumour extra 333. International flights are doing well and new destinations may come on board sooner than originally scheduled. The 788 and soon 789's are just not arriving soon enough. I was told if the terrible teens were fly worthy they would have been leased short term and replaced by future later production aircraft. I think definitely the demand from China is surprizing everyone by how fast it is growing. The trend of middle and upper classes buying property in Canada continues with relatives or children attending school using the condos and houses. I am not sure about follow on orders of more 77W because those are awefully big aircraft to reallocate if conditions change. 788 and the soon to arrive 789 will cover the longest range destinations and the newly added 763 and 333 cover more of the volume destinations like Zurich and move the 788 to take advantage of their long legs and open a new destination.
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting Lostsound (Reply 24):

Ok, last year some people had mentioned in some other discussion related to the caiier that AC are getting a new look based on the colours of its website.
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 30):
AC should buy some new 767s. They can get them fast and cheap, and to their specs.


Cheap? A new 763 goes for a cool $192M ($US) -- $240M ($Canadian)!!!......I wouldn't call that cheap....

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/

The used aircraft market has many 763s at less than half that cost.

[Edited 2015-03-12 06:32:42]
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sirtoby
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 33):
Cheap? A new 763 goes for a cool $192M ($US) -- $240M ($Canadian)!!!......I wouldn't call that cheap....

You are confusing lits price with market price...  
 
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Polot
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:38 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 34):
You are confusing lits price with market price...

  
But I don't know about the "fast" part of the statement. The 767 doesn't have a large backlog (at least until the rest of the USAF contract is fulfilled) at ~44 planes, but it also has a slow production rate, 1 per month IIRC. Although Boeing is apparently looking at doubling that to 2 per month.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 34):
You are confusing lits price with market price

While that is true, it is unlikely that Boeing is going to sell a new airframe for anything close to used prices. And, I really can't see Air Canada investing in a "new" airframe that was designed in the 1970s. That is best left for temporary lift on the used market.

If anything, I would expect to see AC exercising options on B787s.
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pnwtraveler
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:17 am

The issue is for airframes faster than the 788 and 789 are coming off the line. So waiting for new 763 is not much better. Options for 788 and 789 also are longer term answers and like Longhauler said I think that is a given. Sooner and quicker is what is on for NOW for early start to new in demand routes and expansion on busy routes. They are feeding successful Rouge with 763. Keeping the A333 longer than originally planned. Exercising more 77W even though because they are the largest in the fleet can be less flexible. That leaves more A333 probably sub-leased and as lightly used 763's that are available. Remember WestJet just took 4 of those and might be long planning for more. So there is competition for the best airframes. AC won't be putting bigger aircraft either because the planes have to be available fast and can't be filled in off seasons with Canadian traffic patterns or fight the North American preference for frequency.
 
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 30):
AC should buy some new 767s. They can get them fast and cheap, and to their specs.

I highly doubt any more passenger 767s will be built. The only remaining unfilled orders are for freighters (and the USAF tankers).
 
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accargofra
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:10 am

according to skyliner-aviationan 8 year old AF frame will join the AC fleet:

Airbus A321-212 MSN3051 C-? Air Canada at TLS 10mar15 in full cs, F-reg prior delivery ex F-GTAN
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting accargofra (Reply 39):
Airbus A321-212 MSN3051 C-? Air Canada at TLS 10mar15 in full cs, F-reg prior delivery ex F-GTAN

Great. That sounds like one of the "new" ships, 461, 462, 463 being added in time for the summer season.

No pictures?
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 40):
Airbus A321-212 MSN3051 C-? Air Canada at TLS 10mar15 in full cs, F-reg prior delivery ex F-GTAN

Great. That sounds like one of the "new" ships, 461, 462, 463 being added in time for the summer season.

In service with AF since new in 2007. Last rev flight early Feb.

[Edited 2015-03-16 10:06:58]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
zoulastar
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:48 pm

RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting accargofra (Reply 39):
according to skyliner-aviationan 8 year old AF frame will join the AC fleet:

Airbus A321-212 MSN3051 C-? Air Canada at TLS 10mar15 in full cs, F-reg prior delivery ex F-GTAN

Correct.

The others two A321 will also be Air France A321. F-GTAR and F-GTAV are due to leave the fleet in the next 2 months.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting accargofra (Reply 39):
F-GTAN

The aircraft was seen in TLS today:


Msn188 16/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Aircellist
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:55 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 41):
In service with AF since new in 2007. Last rev flight early Feb.

Why is AF retiring such youngish aircraft?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:07 am

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 44):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 41):
In service with AF since new in 2007. Last rev flight early Feb.

Why is AF retiring such youngish aircraft?

No doubt part of their latest (of many) restructuring efforts to reduce their huge losses. The newer aircraft should be worth more to a new operator than the older ones.
 
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viasa
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 44):
Why is AF retiring such youngish aircraft?

I would say just because the lease contract has ended... Afaik the owner is AerCap.
 
zoulastar
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:48 pm

RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:49 am

Quoting viasa (Reply 46):
I would say just because the lease contract has ended... Afaik the owner is AerCap.

Correct. Those three aircrafts were under lease contract that ended or end in the next month.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:35 pm

atdb.org is now reporting that Rouge will add 3 (not 2) new-build A321's in Dec/Jan. MSN's 6844/6873/6905. Lessors to be announced. 6873 was added this week.

The same source is also reporting that AC has changed the order mix for the 787 fleet again, from 11x 788 and 26 x789 to 9x788 and 28x789. IOW, 2x 788's were converted to 789. Given that AC already operates 8x 788, the sole remaining 788 on order will be delivered in 2016.

Given that AC now has 28x 789 on order, perhaps they will convert some in due course to the 78J.

The first 789 is still due in July.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4388
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Air Canada Rouge Orders New A321s

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:43 pm

Long term I could see Rouge being a LCC accross the pond how about feeder flights from NYC, BOS, DC, PHL to Halifax then LCC routes to Europe LGW, etc ? Kind of crazy but i could see it happening

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