Welcome to the 155th edition of the New Zealand Aviation Threads.

Link to part 154 New Zealand Aviation Thread 154 (by ZKOJH Feb 25 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Aerorobnz: You could get a cheap fare on PR ex Australia and stop off for some Filipino food along the way. (YUM!!)
Mmmmm Filipino food!


A departure tax will not be used to pay for New Plymouth's $11 million airport terminal and carpark expansions.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-dail...312/Airport-departure-tax-grounded

ATR72-600 ZK-MVF having some sort of problem at TRG. Not properly lined up and aborted landing. Now circling off the coast.

PA515

Quoting PA515 (Reply 9):

ZK-MVF has just landed 28 minutes after the first attempt.

PA515

Maybe a new 5th freedom to AKL this year from Australia by way of AirAsia X..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11416360

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4): Maybe a new 5th freedom to AKL this year from Australia by way of AirAsia X.

LOL oh wonderful. They will have to be significantly cheaper to convince me I might be interested.enough to not fly NZ/QF/EK/LA/CI. JQ haven't been able to do that so far, so I don't expect Air Asia to either..

Invercargill is set to get it's first international charter. Some of you may enjoy this article...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-tim...ernational-flight-set-for-November

A clutch of small airlines are offering to take over regional services abandoned by Air New Zealand, but it is a market littered with failure.

Next month Air New Zealand will pull out of Kaitaia, Whakatane and Westport completely and some other routes will be dropped as the airline progressively retires its regional fleet of 19-seater Beech 1900D aircraft by August 2016

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/67337794/regional-routes-rise-again

I really hope the airlines taking over from NZ can get an interline agreement with NZ.

Great Barrier Airlines has grounded two of its aircraft due to concerns over maintenance "discrepancies".

New Zealand's Great Barrier Airlines chief executive Mark Roberts said the airline chose to ground its Britten Norman Islander and Piper Chieftan last night after its new maintenance provider raised concerns over discrepancies in the maintenance log book.

The airline, which has a chequered safety past, flies between Auckland Airport and North Shore Airport, and Great Barrier Island and has won the contract to provide flights between Auckland and Kaitaia, starting in April.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel...at-barrier-airlines-grounds-planes

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 4):

I can also see WLG and CHC flights with maybe ZQN being added as seasonal. A320s flying from New Zealand to each of BNE, SYD and MEL with one market served from each airport with connecting flights to Asia.

Quoting Sylus (Reply 6):

Its only a one time charter so it should be interesting to see how it happens. NZ wouldn't really care if it sells fully or not, but interesting they cancel a CHC-MEL-CHC sector to enable this charter.

BTW Sylus, welcome to A.net

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8): I can also see WLG and CHC flights with maybe ZQN being added as seasonal. A320s flying from New Zealand to each of BNE, SYD and MEL with one market served from each airport with connecting flights to Asia.

Much more likely to be A330s flying directly on from East Coast Australia to Kuala Lumpur than A320s.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 9):

Or some flights to DPS with connections to Asia?

A useful description of "freedom" terminology, if anyone's interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air

Just been looking at airpoints/atatus points earning for flight to Australia and the Islands. You now earn between 60-100% more flying to the Islands then flying to Australia! Sad how NZ feels it needs to destroy earning rates to Australia.....great way to make customers move to Qantas/Oneworld

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12): Just been looking at airpoints/atatus points earning for flight to Australia and the Islands. You now earn between 60-100% more flying to the Islands then flying to Australia! Sad how NZ feels it needs to destroy earning rates to Australia.....great way to make customers move to Qantas/Oneworld

This is the problem with the revenue based programme. When it's purely based on fare amount less taxes across the network, it does not take into account competition and loyalty. From marketing point of view, when there is more competition, more points should be given to entice customers but Airpoints has gone the other way.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 13):

Its now way easier/cheaper to maintain status with doing an Islands return trip compared to flying to/from Australia. Why fly NZ/VA to Australia when QF/EK treats you better in terms of baggage, IFE, meals and points/status?

Next Night Rider service is

WLG-HLZ-WLG

Flights start from 17 Apr 2015. Flights depart Hamilton - Thursday through Monday at 10.20pm. Flights depart Wellington - Thursday through Monday at 8.50pm.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 13): Quoting 777ER (Reply 12): Just been looking at airpoints/atatus points earning for flight to Australia and the Islands. You now earn between 60-100% more flying to the Islands then flying to Australia! Sad how NZ feels it needs to destroy earning rates to Australia.....great way to make customers move to Qantas/Oneworld This is the problem with the revenue based programme. When it's purely based on fare amount less taxes across the network, it does not take into account competition and loyalty. From marketing point of view, when there is more competition, more points should be given to entice customers but Airpoints has gone the other way.

Even with a revenue based system I find it almost offensive to see that I get a whopping $1 (!!!) for a trip to OZ. Sorry, Air NZ, but that is not good enough. I understand that you want/need to reward the higher paying customers, but even for the lowest fare bucket you could give a few more Airpoints Dollars. Why bother giving $1 at all?

Cheers
micha

Well I am booked to fly on the CV580 to WHK. I hope they swap aircraft for a Dc3 on one sector if I'm lucky. Tick for new airline and type anyway.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 17): Well I am booked to fly on the CV580 to WHK. I hope they swap aircraft for a Dc3 on one sector if I'm lucky. Tick for new airline and type anyway.

Never been on a Metro, so I'll look out for that one  

Cheerio
micha

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 18):

Nor me, though it would be sad to get 2 sectors on a metro but not a CV580 or DC3.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14): Its now way easier/cheaper to maintain status with doing an Islands return trip compared to flying to/from Australia. Why fly NZ/VA to Australia when QF/EK treats you better in terms of baggage, IFE, meals and points/status?

While QF does have better services ex-WLG than NZ/VA do. From Auckland NZ/VA have much better service options and times than QF/EK have.

Ex Auckland BNE/MEL both get an daily 77W from NZ, then an mix of A320/763s fron NZ/VA. SYD you're got up to 7x daily flights from NZ/VA an at least two of them are an 763/772/77W/789. Then depending on season/day you'vre got dirrect services to PER/ADL/OOL/MCY/CNS on NZ/VA.

Qantas you're stuck with 738s, and that daily EK A380 flight which doesn't have the best timming.

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 18): Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 17):Well I am booked to fly on the CV580 to WHK. I hope they swap aircraft for a Dc3 on one sector if I'm lucky. Tick for new airline and type anyway. Never been on a Metro, so I'll look out for that one

Never been on both, so will have to consider a trip one day

Quoting zkncj (Reply 20):

Yes AKL doesn't have as much quality QF/EK services, but being stuck on a B738 isn't bad. I've been on a B738 for nearly 5 hours and its bearable

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21): Yes AKL doesn't have as much quality QF/EK services, but being stuck on a B738 isn't bad. I've been on a B738 for nearly 5 hours and its bearable

It is bad if it is a QF 738, pitch is so small even me at 5'7 had to turn sideways a little as my knees dug into the seat in front, I was forced to fly it twice to SYD and never again, I pay more to fly NZ and avoid QF at all costs

Quoting nz2 (Reply 22): It is bad if it is a QF 738, pitch is so small even me at 5'7 had to turn sideways a little as my knees dug into the seat in front, I was forced to fly it twice to SYD and never again, I pay more to fly NZ and avoid QF at all costs

Each to their own. I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'd far prefer a 763, or 744, or A380 on the Tasman, but even at my 6'3" I find QFs 738s tolerable for flights of trans-Tasman length. Certainly in the same ballpark as NZ's A320s (which I do concede are slightly better).

The total QF package (routes, loyalty benefits, pricing, hard product, professionalism) have caused me to switch allegiance to QF/EK/One World from NZ/star alliance. This will be the last year which I have star alliance gold status.. at least for a while.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21): Yes AKL doesn't have as much quality QF/EK services, but being stuck on a B738 isn't bad. I've been on a B738 for nearly 5 hours and its bearable

Every Time I've been on an QF 738, I've found the leg room to be around the same as Jetstar (pain full for anyone over 5'10).

Quoting gasman (Reply 23): Quoting nz2 (Reply 22):It is bad if it is a QF 738, pitch is so small even me at 5'7 had to turn sideways a little as my knees dug into the seat in front, I was forced to fly it twice to SYD and never again, I pay more to fly NZ and avoid QF at all costs Each to their own. I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'd far prefer a 763, or 744, or A380 on the Tasman, but even at my 6'3" I find QFs 738s tolerable for flights of trans-Tasman length. Certainly in the same ballpark as NZ's A320s (which I do concede are slightly better).

Especially if your seated on the left side in front of the first overwing exit on NZs A320s. That side certainly has more leg room.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 24): Every Time I've been on an QF 738, I've found the leg room to be around the same as Jetstar (pain full for anyone over 5'10).

Jetstar is 29", Qantas is 30". Guess it depends how you sit in the seat in terms of comfort levels as I've only found JQ to be slightly uncomfortable in terms of legroom. Plus having the seat in front of you so close to you just doesn't feel nice

Quoting 777ER (Reply 25): Jetstar is 29", Qantas is 30". Guess it depends how you sit in the seat in terms of comfort levels as I've only found JQ to be slightly uncomfortable in terms of legroom. Plus having the seat in front of you so close to you just doesn't feel nice

Admittedly every time in last 6 years that I've been across the Tasman on an NZ A320 in the last 6 years has been in space+ with an 34-35" seat pitch, then on the 77W/772/744 90% of the time its been in an PE Seat.

Having access to that space is just something Qantas can't offer on the Tasman expect in there exit rows, which are alright apart from the lack of recline.

The lack of meals on NZ isn't really to much of an problem for me, just grab an bite in the lounge. It's way better than being stuck with an finished tray in front of you for 40minutes before the crew collect them. Also with the lack of meal also gives you more working space and time to work out on your laptop. Personally I find it near impossible to work on an Qantas 738 out the tasman (using even an 13" macbook pro) you don't have the space/distance in front of you that NZ can offer.

I agree, NZ provide a better product than QF across the Tasman - although not by a huge margin. At least QF does provide the option of J on every flight.

It amuses me that we're having this discussion over this level of product. I recall a conversation I had with a colleague in the early 90's. He always flew QF across the Tasman because you were much more likely to get a 747, as opposed to NZ which would almost always be a 767. Oh how times have changed!

Quoting gasman (Reply 27): It amuses me that we're having this discussion over this level of product. I recall a conversation I had with a colleague in the early 90's. He always flew QF across the Tasman because you were much more likely to get a 747, as opposed to NZ which would almost always be a 767. Oh how times have changed!

How long ago was it now since Qantas ran an 747 tasman service? must have been a couple of years now.

In the last 10 years Qantas has really pulled back on the tasman, look at BNE a couple of years ago it was an daily 744 now its just an 738. Yet NZ has replace the 744 with an daily 77W, so there passengers are still there if you target them right.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 28): In the last 10 years Qantas has really pulled back on the tasman

The Tasman is the one market in NZ's network where competition really is cutthroat and margins are slim. I have often wondered if this was a reason for QF pulling out of AKL-LAX - because for them, the route mandated a trans-Tasman crossing on a long-haul aircraft which may have lost significant money on that leg.

However, EK seem to be able to make TT crossings using long haul aircraft work I suppose.

[Edited 2015-03-13 21:01:32]

I'm old enough to remember the shock, the outrage, the cries of horror, when Qantas dropped first class on TT.

I remember a similar shock when they stopped using the regular business class amenities bag in favour of a smaller version.

But passengers voted with their wallets and, despite the outrage, they preferred lower fares.

Such is life.

mariner

Quoting gasman (Reply 23): I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'd far prefer a 763

I wouldn't be - the NZ A320 seat is so much better than the 763 seat, especially the frequent flyer seats with the extra legroom..

Quoting zkncj (Reply 26): It's way better than being stuck with an finished tray in front of you for 40minutes before the crew collect them

Interesting, as each time I've flown NZ on the Tasman, I've never had to wait more then 10mins once I've finished my meal to have my tray removed.

CAA is investigating an incident where a plane slid off the runway at Christchurch Airport.

Air NZ flight NZ525 from Auckland to Christchurch on March 6 ended up on a section of grass off a runway at Christchurch Airport after the plane landed at 12.37pm.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel...off-runway-at-christchurch-airport

Thankfully the aircraft was able to taxi to the gate under its own power and no passengers were injured.

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 16): Why bother giving $1 at all?

You could always do what I did - ditch NZ and head on over to QF. The benefits have been fantastic as far as I'm concerned.

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 18): Never been on a Metro, so I'll look out for that one

Yeesh, I did a charter on one recently. Fun to tick off another type but my god that'll be the last trip on one of those. Though in fairness the weather didn't help.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 20): Qantas you're stuck with 738s, and that daily EK A380 flight which doesn't have the best timming.

I don't get this - I love the EK timings for me to get back to Oz (where I'm now based 80 per cent of the time). and the QF flights are just fine as far as I'm concerned. Here's the thing, my first flight of the day from AKL option is either QF or VA. QF gives me full service, meals, entertainment, luggage and frequent flyer points. VA - none of that for pretty much the same fare. QF is the obvious choice.

Quoting gasman (Reply 23): Certainly in the same ballpark as NZ's A320s (which I do concede are slightly better).

Quoting gasman (Reply 27): I agree, NZ provide a better product than QF across the Tasman - although not by a huge margin. At least QF does provide the option of J on every flight.

I'm surprised by this sentiment. The NZ 320s are, in my opinion, pretty stock-standard ordinary. Since they changed the brown leather seats to the black nylon ones, the 320s have really been subpar. The IFE is very ordinary, the inflight meals sub-ordinary, the service is hit and miss. While I find QF is pretty clinical they always strike me as more professional, with better food and IFE. Not to mention very price competitive and with an overall better product offering (meals, luggage, IFE). It's also a consistent product.

And now you have the oddity of VA with business class seats and NZ 320s without - bummer for J pax that actually have their frequency options reduced if they want to stick with business. Ironic given they are usually the justification for higher frequencies.

Quoting gasman (Reply 29): The Tasman is the one market in NZ's network where competition really is cutthroat and margins are slim.

I doubt that's the case any more. At least NZ is turning a profit on it - not sure about the others but I presume QF is now too given their "miraculous" turnaround.

EK and QF/JQ tied the knot, NZ and VA tied the knot. There's nowhere near the amount of "third party" airlines flying the Tasman as there once were (TG, UA, AR, BR, KE, GA, RB etc). QF has removed widebodies. NZ has removed seats (747s to 77Ws), lowered the service offering and frequencies are pretty static, despite the growing market. If anything, we're now stuck with a pretty cosy duopoly. Hopefully Air
Asia will shake things up.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 34): Quoting zkeoj (Reply 18): Never been on a Metro, so I'll look out for that one Yeesh, I did a charter on one recently. Fun to tick off another type but my god that'll be the last trip on one of those. Though in fairness the weather didn't help.

I love flying in the metro, though I'm certain I'm in a minority there.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 34): Quoting gasman (Reply 23): Certainly in the same ballpark as NZ's A320s (which I do concede are slightly better). Quoting gasman (Reply 27): I agree, NZ provide a better product than QF across the Tasman - although not by a huge margin. At least QF does provide the option of J on every flight. I'm surprised by this sentiment. The NZ 320s are, in my opinion, pretty stock-standard ordinary. Since they changed the brown leather seats to the black nylon ones, the 320s have really been subpar. The IFE is very ordinary, the inflight meals sub-ordinary, the service is hit and miss. While I find QF is pretty clinical they always strike me as more professional, with better food and IFE. Not to mention very price competitive and with an overall better product offering (meals, luggage, IFE). It's also a consistent product. And now you have the oddity of VA with business class seats and NZ 320s without - bummer for J pax that actually have their frequency options reduced if they want to stick with business. Ironic given they are usually the justification for higher frequencies.

I agree with you. I'll add that I find the meals in economy to be sub par on NZs Tasman flights and I'm not sure about the comment by ZK-NCJ that seat pitch is the same as J* on Jetconnect either. The Jetstar A320s are far tighter than anything I have seen before on either QF or NZ. Although to be fair to Jetstar, their is a bit of variation between rows.

There will be some reduction in 777 flying across the Tasman (and to the Pacific) once EZE starts. I believe this is why the 767s are being kept longer.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 17): Well I am booked to fly on the CV580 to WHK. I hope they swap aircraft for a Dc3 on one sector if I'm lucky. Tick for new airline and type anyway.

They won't tell you what aircraft they plan to use, aye? Bugger  

[Edited 2015-03-16 01:03:39]

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 34): Quoting gasman (Reply 27): I agree, NZ provide a better product than QF across the Tasman - although not by a huge margin. At least QF does provide the option of J on every flight. I'm surprised by this sentiment. The NZ 320s are, in my opinion, pretty stock-standard ordinary.

Quoting gasman (Reply 27): It amuses me that we're having this discussion over this level of product.

I don't disagree with you guys - and I've switched to QF also. My point with the 738/A320 is that you're comparing two pretty mediocre products. It's like arguing over whether The Warehouse or Bunnings is better.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 34): While I find QF is pretty clinical they always strike me as more professional, with better food and IFE.

Totally agree, especially with respect to professionalism.

Quoting Sylus (Reply 6): Invercargill is set to get it's first international charter. Some of you may enjoy this article..

I found this bit of information remarkable:

Quote: The House of Travel Lakers owner-operator said he could not quite believe he had pulled off what would be a historic package involving Air New Zealand cancelling a scheduled Christchurch to Melbourne flight on November 3 and giving it to him.

Just a little piece of nerdish trivia:

I've observed that NZ's flights are numbered with odd numbers westbound, and even numbers eastbound. I was intrigued, though, that the new flight to Singapore is exactly the opposite - odd number eastbound, even number westbound. Tonight I realised that the numbers, NZ281 and NZ282, are probably the former SQ flight numbers. Just coincidence that they're close by the PVG flights' block of numbers.

See, I told you it was nerdish,

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 39):

I always thought it was north bound flights with even numbers and south bound with odd... Maybe it's just domestically

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 34): 'm surprised by this sentiment. The NZ 320s are, in my opinion, pretty stock-standard ordinary. Since they changed the brown leather seats to the black nylon ones, the 320s have really been subpar.

They are the same seats, they just recovered them and put the half tray tables in to fit the touch screen.

Just received my complimentary Qantas Gold pack, as part of the free QF Gold status they are offering NZ Gold/Gold Elite members which we discussed in the last thread. The surprise was the "smart" luggage tags. Two big robust tags, which totally eliminate the need for machine paper tags. The tags (Q tags they're called) contain a chip, everything is linked to you. So you can check in online or via your mobile, and then just dump your bag on the bag drop. Brilliant.

Avoids the somewhat farcical situation where you "check in" on-line but still need to go through a queuing process and/or access a computer terminal to get your bag on the flight.

 

Quoting gasman (Reply 42): The surprise was the "smart" luggage tags

aka coasters  

Wonder where my pack is..

Quoting gasman (Reply 42): Just received my complimentary Qantas Gold pack,

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 43): Wonder where my pack is..

Now I want mine, too   Oh, and speaking of the QF offer to match Gold status: That colleague whose NZ Gold expired end February got her Gold matched just a week ago - so in her case QF took their time, but eventually decided to match hers as well  

Cheers
micha

I've lost track of the 772 refurbishment (mainly because I've been flying AC to SYD). Does anyone know what the chances are of getting a refurbished a/c on the scheduled 772 flights to from SFO/LAX/YVR in early May. I hate the 773 PE, and the old 9 abreast 772 PE is not worth the extra cost.

Well well..........

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11418509

I had to laugh at this quote regarding trans-Pacific airfares from an unnamed Air NZ spokesperson. "Airfares are highly competitive and very transparent to travellers". Yeah.......... right.

Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 35): There will be some reduction in 777 flying across the Tasman (and to the Pacific) once EZE starts. I believe this is why the 767s are being kept longer.

Don't think so. Only one 77E is required for AKL-EZE (6 aircraft days) and most of that (4 aircraft days) is from AKL-PVG going to a daily 789.

Two of three 763's due to be retired in FY16 are now staying until FY18, so two 789's due in FY16 to replace them will be available for longhaul up to six days a week.

That means an extra widebody available six days a week for a Tasman or Pacific daytime return if the usual pattern of an overnight longhaul in each direction is followed.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 45): I've lost track of the 772 refurbishment (mainly because I've been flying AC to SYD). Does anyone know what the chances are of getting a refurbished a/c on the scheduled 772 flights to from SFO/LAX/YVR in early May. I hate the 773 PE, and the old 9 abreast 772 PE is not worth the extra cost.

Chances are not great as only three of the eight 77E's will be upgraded by May and one of those is meant to used for AKL-SIN-AKL. However, the flights that have an upgraded aircraft are supposed to be '777' instead of '772'. Checked the 14 May week and only '772' is showing.

OKA and OKE have been completed and OKG has been in the hangar since 08 Feb. That's three of the four leased aircraft so the other leased OKD is probably next about 05 Apr.

PA515

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 45):

It is about halfway through, but with priority for the HKG/SIN routes. YVR is the next best bet, it will be the next to be prioritised once enough are rolled out.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 39): Tonight I realised that the numbers, NZ281 and NZ282, are probably the former SQ flight numbers.

Correct. And yesterday NZ282 AKL-SIN was ZK-OKN and NZ281 SIN-AKL was ZK-OKM.

PA515