Australian Aviation Thread Part 117

DavidByrne · Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:50 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 98):
I wonder if the once weekly flight would operate at all if there was not an aircraft just sitting around on its chuff to make use of?

No airline operates any flights at all unless it has an aircraft available. Aircraft available = possibility of a flight. No aircraft available = no possibility of a flight. So the answer is obvious.

SYDSpotter · Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:47 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 100):
No airline operates any flights at all unless it has an aircraft available. Aircraft available = possibility of a flight. No aircraft available = no possibility of a flight. So the answer is obvious.

Wow, really insightful post. I didn't realise you needed an aircraft in order to operate a flight

If you had properly read the lead up to the post, you would read that QF is operating the flight because it has an A330 sitting in PER doing nothing on the weekends. The question was therefore, would QF operate the service if it had to slot the PER-AKL service into the A330 rotations if the A330 in question didn't have 2 full spare days sitting idle (i.e. if QF had a higher utilisation of the A330 fleet).

The answer is probably not given you have total sector time (PER-AKL return) of at least 15 hours (14 hours total return flight time). The two end points (PER/AKL) aren't the main QF A330 ports, so any tech issues and all of a sudden the A330 rotations get thrown into chaos. The 2 days of idle time provide QF with plenty of operational buffer.

DavidByrne · Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:25 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 101):
If you had properly read the lead up to the post, you would read that QF is operating the flight because it has an A330 sitting in PER doing nothing on the weekends. The question was therefore, would QF operate the service if it had to slot the PER-AKL service into the A330 rotations if the A330 in question didn't have 2 full spare days sitting idle (i.e. if QF had a higher utilisation of the A330 fleet).

I fully understood the lead-up to the post and I stand by my answer! Perhaps a more appropriate answer that would elicit a more insightful discussion would be whether QF would add more capacity in order to run the PER-AKL flight if it didn't have an aircraft available. Or whether it would drop other sectors in the 330's schedule in order to run a PER-AKL flight in preference if it didn't already have the aircraft available. Or, indeed, the question that you now pose above.

Wasn't meaning to be offensive at all - just felt that it was the wrong question!

Quoting mariner (Reply 99):
This was partly the rationale for Emirates trans-Tasman services, which don't get high load factors, but which Emirates claims are profitable

Saw an article the other day which suggested that Emirates' load factor on the Tasman were around 75%. That's not as bad as I suspected - and certainly higher than anecdotal stories I've heard. So I looked up the BITRE stats for December and found that EK had higher December load factors on the Tasman than NZ, QF, JQ or VA - above 93% outbound and 80% inbound. This includes pax transiting Australia, en route to of from NZ from elsewhere, according to the notes to the table. For June the stats are more what I was expecting - around 56% outbound, 55% inbound. The surprise for me was that for the same month QF's loads on the Tasman were 63% outbound and 59% inbound - only a few percent more than EK. Makes me wonder whether QF wouldn't be better matching capacity closer to seasonal demand on the Tasman, as NZ does, rather than operating pretty much the same level of service year-round. Surely on the industry's typically narrow margins they must lose a lot of money on the Tasman in winter.

RyanairGuru · Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:31 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
I fully understood the lead-up to the post and I stand by my answer!

I would support you in that. You answer was articulate, if not altogether insightful.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
Saw an article the other day which suggested that Emirates' load factor on the Tasman were around 75%. That's not as bad as I suspected

It is much better post-QF, as the EK flights are marketed locally by QF. EK were traditionally the bottom feeder, sometimes even cheaper than JQ, but now barely market Tasman at all any more.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
Makes me wonder whether QF wouldn't be better matching capacity closer to seasonal demand on the Tasman

Almost certainly

TruemanQLD · Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:57 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
Saw an article the other day which suggested that Emirates' load factor on the Tasman were around 75%. That's not as bad as I suspected - and certainly higher than anecdotal stories I've heard. So I looked up the BITRE stats for December and found that EK had higher December load factors on the Tasman than NZ, QF, JQ or VA - above 93% outbound and 80% inbound. This includes pax transiting Australia, en route to of from NZ from elsewhere, according to the notes to the table. For June the stats are more what I was expecting - around 56% outbound, 55% inbound. The surprise for me was that for the same month QF's loads on the Tasman were 63% outbound and 59% inbound - only a few percent more than EK. Makes me wonder whether QF wouldn't be better matching capacity closer to seasonal demand on the Tasman, as NZ does, rather than operating pretty much the same level of service year-round. Surely on the industry's typically narrow margins they must lose a lot of money on the Tasman in winter.

But IIRC they can't drop capacity below pre-EK partnership levels due to the agreement, which is a bit limiting. They did adjust it slightly last year, hence BNE-AKL being 10 weekly instead of 2x daily now during low season.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 103):
It is much better post-QF, as the EK flights are marketed locally by QF. EK were traditionally the bottom feeder, sometimes even cheaper than JQ, but now barely market Tasman at all any more.

EK Loads from BNE to AKL always appear quite good. it is interesting to see how the number of passengers continuing from DXB to AKL via BNE changes each day, sometimes quite significantly, and I assume they feed these passengers through whichever city (MEL, SYD or BNE) has the weakest demand on the Oz-DXB service that day.

CI came along and took a lot of the bottom feeder traffic ex-BNE/SYD to NZ now.

SYDSpotter · Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:32 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
Wasn't meaning to be offensive at all - just felt that it was the wrong question!

No offence taken, it was just that on first reading your response, it seemed a bit of a backhanded response. Anyway, glad everyone is on the same page now.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 104):
But IIRC they can't drop capacity below pre-EK partnership levels due to the agreement, which is a bit limiting. They did adjust it slightly last year, hence BNE-AKL being 10 weekly instead of 2x daily now during low season.

Yes that was my understanding as well. The only way they could maintain the existing capacity levels if they dropped capacity in winter would be to increase it by the same amount in high season, the issue is then whether there is sufficient slack in the 737's to enable additional frequencies in high season given QF doesn't have much of an ability to increase capacity (so as to make up the lost capacity) with larger aircraft now that the 767's are retired and the A330's are pretty well utilised.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
Saw an article the other day which suggested that Emirates' load factor on the Tasman were around 75%. That's not as bad as I suspected - and certainly higher than anecdotal stories I've heard.

EK arguably has the best product out of everyone operating Trans-Tasman routes, so if their pricing is sharp enough, they will do ok (although 777's and A380's have a fair few seats to fill !).

QF175 · Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:56 pm

According to the following post Emirates will reduce Perth from thrice daily to double daily from 06JUL15. EK422/423 is the flight being cut and has reportedly been removed from sale.

At the same time the airline will upguage EK424/425 from a 77L to 77W aircraft.

Emirates Reduces Perth Service from July 2015

Emirates is still on track to commence A380 services to Perth on 01MAY15.

Unclekoru · Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 102):
Quoting mariner (Reply 99):
This was partly the rationale for Emirates trans-Tasman services, which don't get high load factors, but which Emirates claims are profitable

Saw an article the other day which suggested that Emirates' load factor on the Tasman were around 75%. That's not as bad as I suspected - and certainly higher than anecdotal stories I've heard. So I looked up the BITRE stats for December and found that EK had higher December load factors on the Tasman than NZ, QF, JQ or VA - above 93% outbound and 80% inbound. This includes pax transiting Australia, en route to of from NZ from elsewhere, according to the notes to the table. For June the stats are more what I was expecting - around 56% outbound, 55% inbound. The surprise for me was that for the same month QF's loads on the Tasman were 63% outbound and 59% inbound - only a few percent more than EK. Makes me wonder whether QF wouldn't be better matching capacity closer to seasonal demand on the Tasman, as NZ does, rather than operating pretty much the same level of service year-round. Surely on the industry's typically narrow margins they must lose a lot of money on the Tasman in winter.

IIRC the aim of the network changes announced last year was to address some of these weaknesses. Jetstar picking up some AKL-MEL and AKL-SYD flights might make some material difference during the quieter winter months. The QF groups ability to make changes is somewhat limited by it's reliance on Jetconnect with it's NZ crew bases and AOC. It's more difficult to redeploy capacity into other markets. My own occasional travels on the AKL-SYD route in particular has seen some fairly appalling loads on QF.

I find the reported EK load factor interesting , as a reasonably regular traveller across the Tasman on Emirates, my own hunch was that they had seen reasonable growth in load factor over the last few years, especially in economy class. Premium loads still seem weak (albeit on my own limited sampling).

777Jet · Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 100):
No airline operates any flights at all unless it has an aircraft available. Aircraft available = possibility of a flight. No aircraft available = no possibility of a flight. So the answer is obvious.

Really?

Airlines can't operate a flight without an aircraft available?

I would never have guessed!

Now I know why my 'paper airline' is just that

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 101):
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 100):
No airline operates any flights at all unless it has an aircraft available. Aircraft available = possibility of a flight. No aircraft available = no possibility of a flight. So the answer is obvious.

Wow, really insightful post. I didn't realise you needed an aircraft in order to operate a flight

Now that the secrect is out I think I might be able to start my own airline

I thought the reply was kind of funny nonetheless. Funny in both content and that somebody would actually post that. That is what makes this website so exciting

tullamarine · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:53 am

Whether it is a blow or a bit of a bump in the road is questionable but it appears QF's application for a capacity sharing agreement with China Eastern is likely to be rejected by the ACCC due to the concentration of services that this would create. I would think that this may eventually get through but guarantees about increased number of services particularly from lesser Australian ports will probably be a condition of any approval.

777Jet · Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 109):
Whether it is a blow or a bit of a bump in the road is questionable but it appears QF's application for a capacity sharing agreement with China Eastern is likely to be rejected by the ACCC due to the concentration of services that this would create.

I just heard on ABC News 24 that the deal was rejected.

smi0006 · Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:38 am

I must confess with this talk of ACCC unhappy with the MU and QF, is an interesting contrast to Air NZ in New Zealand, CX-NZ, SQ-NZ, and now CA-NZ all with no other direct competition. Not voicing an positive or negative, just a curious observation.

747m8te · Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 111):
I must confess with this talk of ACCC unhappy with the MU and QF, is an interesting contrast to Air NZ in New Zealand, CX-NZ, SQ-NZ, and now CA-NZ all with no other direct competition. Not voicing an positive or negative, just a curious observation.

...or even more locally...the whole VA/NZ tie up on the Tasman, which has seen both carriers reduce services as they consolidate routes...which has reduced competition.

I don't get the ACCC position on QF/MU, it is not like QF currently has a huge network in China...they only fly to one destination, so it would reduce the network or routes or increase higher fares.

Then again, with all the ACCC have done over the years they don't carry much intelligence...

TN486 · Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:58 am

Is there a possibility the ACCC have a cross to bear with QF? (I am not aware of any) or is it that VA are more adept at saying the right things in any submissions??

IndianicWorld · Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:01 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 112):
I don't get the ACCC position on QF/MU, it is not like QF currently has a huge network in China...they only fly to one destination, so it would reduce the network or routes or increase higher fares.

It appears that the decision was based purely on SYD-PVG, which is an interesting way of looking at a broader case.

Given that MU-QF proposed adding frequencies to existing markets, starting new routes to increase competition and connections into China from new markets (BNE & PER), its definitely is a strange way of looking at things in such tunnel vision.

Its not like CZ has had many issues expanding here over the last few years anyway (including adding QF codeshares to its services) and CA has also been aggressive in its moves lately (ie. increasing frequencies and announcing PEK flights to MEL).

TruemanQLD · Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:05 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 111):
I must confess with this talk of ACCC unhappy with the MU and QF, is an interesting contrast to Air NZ in New Zealand, CX-NZ, SQ-NZ, and now CA-NZ all with no other direct competition. Not voicing an positive or negative, just a curious observation.

It is interesting. VA and NZ is a major tie-up that directly affects a lot of routes with no other services (mainly out of BNE where they are the only ones operating anywhere in NZ except for AKL). While this can be compared to EK/QF, the Kangaroo route which this mainly serves (as well as limited Asia services) have a much larger number of competitors than TransTasman. And since they let QF/EK tie up, you now have mainly 2 competitors on the Tasman QF/JQ/EK/LN and NZ/VA - ignoring CI which is bottom-feeding and poorly performing anyway.

I don't have an issue with VA/NZ, I think it provides good connectivity for Australians going to NZ and vice-versa but just interesting that this approved, but QF/MU isn't. I think we will see them go back to the drawing board and try again, this is too large a market for QF to ignore.

Enobar · Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:11 am

I wonder if this is indicative of the ACCC changing its thinking & a sign that perhaps QF/EK need to worry about what happens when it comes time to renew their partnership in 3 years time..?

Sydscott · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 101):
The answer is probably not given you have total sector time (PER-AKL return) of at least 15 hours (14 hours total return flight time). The two end points (PER/AKL) aren't the main QF A330 ports, so any tech issues and all of a sudden the A330 rotations get thrown into chaos. The 2 days of idle time provide QF with plenty of operational buffer.

PER isn't a main QF A330 port? By my calculations today PER has 18 A330 departures compared to 16 at MEL. So I think that's a relative statement.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 114):
It appears that the decision was based purely on SYD-PVG, which is an interesting way of looking at a broader case

It appears to be a very narrow rejection indeed. Given the greater market case that can be made it's interesting that the ACCC rejected it out of hand. Obviously now QF and MU will go back with some sort of capacity guarantee on SYD-PVG along with probably a price monitoring method which will assuage the ACCC concerns. We'll also probably find the Government and other bodies will get involved in terms of lobbying.

Quoting Enobar (Reply 116):
I wonder if this is indicative of the ACCC changing its thinking & a sign that perhaps QF/EK need to worry about what happens when it comes time to renew their partnership in 3 years time..?

Lets hope not. If QF / EK is rejected then VA / EY, QF/ AA and VA / DL should also all be rejected on the same grounds. The ACCC would basically need to undo them all because their approval grounds are all similar.

zkncj · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 112):
or even more locally...the whole VA/NZ tie up on the Tasman, which has seen both carriers reduce services as they consolidate routes...which has reduced competition.

ex-AKL NZ/VA are always competing with QF/EK/JQ pretty much all the time, they just market sale fares much but if you look a couple months out you get them for $139ow

Sydscott · Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:31 pm

Thought I would post this in here:

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...ink-turboprop-operations-in-perth/

The official end of Dash 8 ops by QF Link at PER. All routes now to be flown by either 717 or F100.

It will be interesting to see if they return in future in line with de-regulation of places like Albany and Esperance.

qf2220 · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:24 am

I see that in the wake of the Germanwings tradgedy that various airlines are changing their flight deck procedures to mandate at least 2 people in the cockpit at any one time. Out of interest, what is the current procedure for QF, VA, ZL etc etc?

777Jet · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:46 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 120):
Out of interest, what is the current procedure for QF, VA, ZL etc etc?

FWIW I was on two flights on the same airline / same route / same type 3 weeks apart and as a result I am confused as to their policy.

Both flights only had 2 pilots in the cockpit as I visited the cockpit before both flights and I was seated in 1C on both flights so I knew a third pilot such as a check Captain was not in there.

Flight 1) Captain came out to use the lav before landing and a FA goes inside the cockpit until the Captain returned to the cockpit. Another FA also stayed between the lav / galley area and row 1 at the time.

Flight 2) Captain came out to use the lav before landing and no FA went inside the cockpit. One FA just stayed between the lav / galley area and row 1 at the time.

So, take you pick regarding how policy is put into practice regardless of what the policy actually is - unless it's 'anything goes'

qf789 · Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:51 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 120):
I see that in the wake of the Germanwings tradgedy that various airlines are changing their flight deck procedures to mandate at least 2 people in the cockpit at any one time. Out of interest, what is the current procedure for QF, VA, ZL etc etc?

Qantas assures passengers it places high priority on mental health

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...ealth/story-fnizu68q-1227281490347

Australia aviation safety procedures to be reviewed

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...iewed/story-fnizu68q-1227280952718

qf2220 · Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:43 am

Seeing some of the news coverage, I am a little surprised that some quarters of Australian aviation industry are pushing back on the idea of mandating a second person in the cockpit at all times. What could be the downside of this? I can only see upside, albeit small.

sq256 · Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 123):
I am a little surprised that some quarters of Australian aviation industry are pushing back on the idea of mandating a second person in the cockpit at all times. What could be the downside of this? I can only see upside, albeit small.

Wouldn't this suggestion really mean a 3-man crew in all aircraft including domestic flights? Shades of the AN 767 3-crew debacle, but on a much-wider scale.

Can I suggest another alternative of a FA in place if a crew member needs to go to the restroom, or would that raise safety concerns as well? (someone with the knowledge or in the know might want to comment)

qf2220 · Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:55 am

Quoting sq256 (Reply 124):

The way I understand it was your second paragraph. A FA sits in while the other pilot is out. I'm definitely not proposing a three man crew. I think this is how it is done elsewhere.

timtam · Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 112):

ACCC is manned by a bunch of technocrats straight out of Uni who have no idea about the real world. Their rulings often hinge on their definition of "market" Sometimes they have a very narrow market and other times they have a very broad market. There is no consistency because no one stays in the ACCC very long. It just a stepping stone and everyone who is any good moves on to better things in the real world.

ACCC has nice ideals but they are very ineffective in dealing with those industries and companies that have real market power (such as Coles and Woolworths). Now if they were granted the power to break up/address existing monopolies like in the US it would give them a bit more clout.

[Edited 2015-03-27 04:25:22]

BAeRJ100 · Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:02 pm

Quoting sq256 (Reply 124):
Can I suggest another alternative of a FA in place if a crew member needs to go to the restroom, or would that raise safety concerns as well? (someone with the knowledge or in the know might want to comment)

That's the policy at the airline I work at, has been at least since I started some years ago now. As soon as one pilot exits the flight deck, one of the cabin crew is to enter until said pilot calls for the door to be unlocked. I thought it was pretty standard across the industry until this, guess not!

777Jet · Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:47 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 123):
What could be the downside of this?

Quoting sq256 (Reply 124):
Can I suggest another alternative of a FA in place if a crew member needs to go to the restroom, or would that raise safety concerns as well?

The only downside of this would be if the FA was a nut job and tried something stupid on the other pilot...

EK413 · Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:04 pm

QF have applied the special decal to commemorate 100 Years Gallipoli.

australianspotter's photo http://instagram.com/p/0xBsAlq-iB/

A reliable source told me this decal also features on a A330.

EK413

VH-BZF · Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:06 pm

Driving past Sydney airport yesterday I noticed 2 corporate B757's sitting at the QF jet base. One was black and had 'Four Seasons' titles on the fuselage and tail. Apparently it departed to Denpasar yesterday morning. Thought maybe it was here on a cruise charter flight? The other one was white with blue & silver striping and from where I was sitting it looked as though it had a Bermuda rego?

Anyone have more details? Always great to see unusual visitors to Sydney.

BZF

EK413 · Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:40 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 130):

Was this the B757

EK413

Flyingsottsman · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:43 am

Not sure if its been mentioned here, I saw on Channel 9 news about a fortnight ago that JQ is dropping its Avalon flights. When I went to the air show we saw a JQ A320 land as a scheduled flight, the other airline I saw there was a Alliance Foker 50 parked at the hard stand at the passenger terminal, does Alliance do FIFO flights from Avalon, and what will happen with Avalon? Now seems like a perfectly good terminal that is going to waste.
And also does anybody know what will eventually will happen to the ex QF 743 that has been parked there for years with no engines?

EK413 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 130):
Driving past Sydney airport yesterday I noticed 2 corporate B757's sitting at the QF jet base. One was black and had 'Four Seasons' titles on the fuselage and tail. Apparently it departed to Denpasar yesterday morning. Thought maybe it was here on a cruise charter flight? The other one was white with blue & silver striping and from where I was sitting it looked as though it had a Bermuda rego?

Anyone have more details? Always great to see unusual visitors to Sydney.

BZF

Sorry forgot to include the link...

http://instagram.com/p/0zqQbdKf0t/

EK413

VH-BZF · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:52 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 133):

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 130):
Driving past Sydney airport yesterday I noticed 2 corporate B757's sitting at the QF jet base. One was black and had 'Four Seasons' titles on the fuselage and tail. Apparently it departed to Denpasar yesterday morning. Thought maybe it was here on a cruise charter flight? The other one was white with blue & silver striping and from where I was sitting it looked as though it had a Bermuda rego?

Anyone have more details? Always great to see unusual visitors to Sydney.

BZF

Sorry forgot to include the link...

http://instagram.com/p/0zqQbdKf0t/

EK413

That was the one EK413.

Cheers,

BZF

QF175 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 133):

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 130):
Driving past Sydney airport yesterday I noticed 2 corporate B757's sitting at the QF jet base. One was black and had 'Four Seasons' titles on the fuselage and tail. Apparently it departed to Denpasar yesterday morning. Thought maybe it was here on a cruise charter flight? The other one was white with blue & silver striping and from where I was sitting it looked as though it had a Bermuda rego?

Anyone have more details? Always great to see unusual visitors to Sydney.

BZF

Sorry forgot to include the link...

http://instagram.com/p/0zqQbdKf0t/

EK413

Stunning looking 757, thanks for sharing the photo.

This aircraft was in Sydney as part of the Four Seasons Journies around the world tour, 16 March thru 8 April 2015. Per the link below the cost of the tour is $119,000:

Four Seasons Private Jet Experience

-

Does anyone know if Airnorth is dropping its once-weekly (Thursdays) Gold Coast services from Darwin? It appears that you are not able to make bookings for Darwin-Gold Coast after Thursday 16 April as the search engine yields the message "There are no flights on the day you selected. Please try again".

Interestingly it seems that it is still possible to make bookings for the Darwin-Mount Isa-Darwin portion of the route, just not Darwin-Gold Coast and Mount Isa-Gold Coast vv. Interestingly the Gold Coast doesn't appear on the list of Airnorth sale destinations per the link below (every other Airnorth destination is on sale including Mount Isa):

http://www.airnorth.com.au/plan-your-trip/destinations/easter-sale-qld

I wonder if this means Airnorth will simply operate Darwin-Mount Isa and return or whether it is just a glitch with the online booking system?

a320fan · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:06 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 132):
Not sure if its been mentioned here, I saw on Channel 9 news about a fortnight ago that JQ is dropping its Avalon flights. When I went to the air show we saw a JQ A320 land as a scheduled flight, the other airline I saw there was a Alliance Foker 50 parked at the hard stand at the passenger terminal, does Alliance do FIFO flights from Avalon, and what will happen with Avalon? Now seems like a perfectly good terminal that is going to waste.
And also does anybody know what will eventually will happen to the ex QF 743 that has been parked there for years with no engines?

The downfall of Avalon is real. I believe it was the primary Melbourne port for JQ when they first started, but Tulla quickly outgrew with Avalon having flights to only SYD and BNE for years. TT tried to make a go of it and set up quite a decent operation there. During the 2011 airshow the commercial activity was quite lively with many JQ and TT movements. If my memory is correct TT ditched Avalon after the grounding and JQ has only had a few flights to SYD for a while now. I hadn't heard of this ending, but I wouldn't be surprised. Avalon is in a terrible spot for most Melbournians. I would expect the limited Avalon flights of the last few years would have been largely supported by those in Geelong. Geelong has suffered a lot economically recently with the closure of several large manufacturers in the area and the subsequent loss of jobs.

allrite · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:52 pm

Quoting QF175 (Reply 135):
This aircraft was in Sydney as part of the Four Seasons Journies around the world tour, 16 March thru 8 April 2015.

I always thought that a lot of people travelled to escape at least one of the seasons.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 132):
Not sure if its been mentioned here, I saw on Channel 9 news about a fortnight ago that JQ is dropping its Avalon flights.

Quoting A320fan (Reply 136):
I hadn't heard of this ending, but I wouldn't be surprised. Avalon is in a terrible spot for most Melbournians. I would expect the limited Avalon flights of the last few years would have been largely supported by those in Geelong. Geelong has suffered a lot economically recently with the closure of several large manufacturers in the area and the subsequent loss of jobs.

Just to note that you can still book JQ flights to and from Avalon to Sydney up until at least January next year. Of course, they could still can those and offer refunds or substitute flights to Tullamarine at any stage.

Nouflyer · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:16 pm

There was talk in 2003 that Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox withdrew their Ansett Mark 2 rescue attempt in 2002 as part of a process in which the Qantas group would commit itself to services from their airport at Avalon.

Was this ever confirmed or refuted? The near two year gap makes me highly sceptical.

tullamarine · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:08 pm

Quoting A320fan (Reply 136):
I hadn't heard of this ending, but I wouldn't be surprised. Avalon is in a terrible spot for most Melbournians. I would expect the limited Avalon flights of the last few years would have been largely supported by those in Geelong. Geelong has suffered a lot economically recently with the closure of several large manufacturers in the area and the subsequent loss of jobs.

Avalon's problem is that a large part of its natural catchment area is not that far from MEL. Suburbs such as Werribee, Point Cook, Wyndham etc are all quite close to Avalon but only 30 minutes from Tullamarine via the RIng-Road. Were Avalon situated SE of Melbourne rather than SW, it would have a catchment area that is poorly served by Tullamarine.

The previous state government had allocated land at Tooradin for a 3rd Melbourne airport. Tooradin is 60kms SE of the CBD and, it is ever happens, will probably develop into a proper second airport.

QF175 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:21 pm

Virgin Australia 737-800 VH-YFH is operating the inaugural Alice Springs flights today:

VA1576 DRW/ASP
VA1740 ASP/ADL
VA1741 ADL/ASP
VA1585 ASP/DRW

Today also marks the opening of the new Virgin Australia Darwin Lounge as well as presumably the new Alice Springs Lounge.

DeltaB717 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:32 pm

Quoting QF175 (Reply 140):
Today also marks the opening of the new Virgin Australia Darwin Lounge as well as presumably the new Alice Springs Lounge.

Yes to the ASP Lounge, both are scheduled to open today. Thanks for sharing the rego, I was just about to trawl through flightaware to find it myself - and would've started with YFH 'Mindil Beach'!

luftaom · Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:05 am

The VA DRW lounge was open yesterday during the day. The (non-frosted) door is right next to the (frosted) door of the QF club. There was a very strong smell of fresh paint in the general area.

RobMEL · Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:58 am

Re: AVV

I have made use of AVV multiple times in the last few years on flights to SYD and ADL, on both Tiger and Jetstar. I quite like it, small and functional. I live in the middle South East of Melbourne, so yes it is a bit of a drive compared to Tullamarine, but when you pay about $40 return sometimes to Sydney, the advantages are there.

However, where Avalon is in danger of losing me is the parking charges. They are on a par with those at Tulla, and whilst the convenience of a short walk to the terminal vs a cramped bus ride is good, I find it criminal what they charge. Their parking charges were initially very very cheap, but they have jumped significantly in the last couple of years. If I'm travelling for for than 24 hours, and I normally am, I now take the shuttle from the city. Including the Myki fare to the city and return from home, I'm still usually well out in front.

777Jet · Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:26 am

Just heard on ABC News 24: 2 people to be in the cockpit at all times policy will be implemented in Australia immediately.
These new measures will apply to all domestic and intl flights...

[Edited 2015-03-29 18:39:37]

QF29 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:49 am

[quote=777Jet,reply=144][/quot

Qantas Group statement on cockpit access: http://t.co/o0xoQQXUzI

a320fan · Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:20 am

Quoting QF29 (Reply 145):

Well written statement IMO. Anything from VA?

qf789 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting A320fan (Reply 146):
Well written statement IMO. Anything from VA?

VA have issued a brief statement.

Quote: “Safety is our number one priority, and the Virgin Australia Group continuously undertakes thorough risk reviews to maintain the highest safety and security standards,” Virgin said in a statement.

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...ntroduces-two-person-cockpit-rule/

Credit to QF for the quick response and well written statement to reassure passengers. Can't say the same for VA, they have been very quiet. Have just checked their website and couldn't find anything in relation to this.

qf789 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:57 am

The ALPA aren't happy with the new cockpit rules

Quote: Australian and International Pilots Association president Nathan Safe said the move appeared to be more politically motivated, than research-based.

“We understand the government needs to be seen to be acting given the changes made in overseas jurisdictions. We’re not surprised that they’ve decided to follow suit,” said Mr Safe.

“I should point out, the investigation (into the Germanwings’ crash) hasn’t even been completed.

“We don’t know what training flight crews will be given, or what procedures will be followed.

“We’ve just had regulation put out.”

He said there was a risk the new regulations could create greater exposure of the cockpit, given that the door was likely to be opened more often.

“We want to see more details on how it will work in practice,” Mr Safe said.

“We don’t want the public being deluded into thinking this is a complete fix.”

He welcomed Mr Truss’s commitment to review the policy after 12 months.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...f-two/story-fnizu68q-1227284921250

QF175 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:19 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 141):

Quoting QF175 (Reply 140):
Today also marks the opening of the new Virgin Australia Darwin Lounge as well as presumably the new Alice Springs Lounge.

Yes to the ASP Lounge, both are scheduled to open today. Thanks for sharing the rego, I was just about to trawl through flightaware to find it myself - and would've started with YFH 'Mindil Beach'!

You're welcome

-

I have just checked the Airnorth timetables pages, it appears the airline pushed through an update earlier today. It appears that services to the Gold Coast are being suspended from 16 April 2015.

Airnorth currently operates the following schedule to Mount Isa and the Gold Coast:

DRW/ISA 0600/0825 TL174 E70 Thu
ISA/OOL 0855/1110 TL174 E70 Thu

OOL/ISA 1150/1430 TL175 E70 Thu
ISA/DRW 1500/1630 TL175 E70 Thu

This service was reduced to once-weekly after initially launching at twice-weekly (services also operated on Wednesdays)

From Thursday 23 April 2015 Airnorth will begin operating the following Mount Isa schedule:

DRW/MCV 0705/0815 TL120 E70 Thu
MCV/ISA 0845/1010 TL120 E70 Thu

ISA/MCV 1040/1105 TL121 E70 Thu
MCV/DRW 1135/1235 TL121 E70 Thu

MCV = McArthur River Airport

Airnorth Timetables

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