SCQ83
Topic Author
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Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:04 pm

AENA has released today the numbers for February 2015.

http://www.aena.es/csee/ccurl/359/192/02_Estadisticas_Febrero_2015.pdf

MAD has grown 11.9% in February, and 10.8% in 2015. What I think is more interesting is that there are 30 new routes starting in S15 (and 3 other routes already announced for W15), so this growth should increase from April (summer season).

Could MAD become the fastest-growing airport in Europe with IST slowing down and the situation in Russia? A 10% increase could lead to 46M PAX, still far from the 2007 record of 52M. Granted in 2007 there were far less high-speed trains into Madrid which have taken away a lot of domestic traffic.

Numbers are up in most airports that depend more in local demand and suffered the most from the recession. Sevilla scored a 16.7% increase, Bilbao 8.3%, Valencia 6.8% and Santiago 7.4%.

Airports with more holiday traffic are also up but at more modest levels. Most of them were already in record numbers in 2014. Barcelona has grown by 3.6%, Málaga by 6.0% and Palma de Mallorca by 6.0%
 
uberflieger
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:40 pm

With IAG seemingly happy where Iberia's labor costs are now, and MAD being able to accommodate a lot more traffic, the recent IB & Express expansion is probably only the beginning of a lot more to come.   
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 1):

Definitely. That would be great for both AENA and IAG  . But also Ryanair and Norwegian are expanding. Those are the new routes for S15 in MAD only:

- Abu Dhabi (EY)
- Berlin SXF (FR)
- Birmingham (DY)
- Bratislava (FR)
- Bucarest (FR)
- Budapest (IB)
- Budapest (I2)
- Cali (IB)
- Catania (DY)
- Catania (IB)
- Chisinau (9U)
- Copenhagen (FR)
- Dakar (UX)
- Dubrovnik (DY)
- Edinburgh (I2)
- Faro (YW)
- Florence (IB)
- Hamburg (IB)
- Havana (IB)
- London LGW (I2)
- Lviv (PS)
- Lyon (I2)
- Manchester (I2)
- Medellín (IB)
- Nantes (I2)
- Nantes (TO)
- Naples (I2)
- Nice (DY)
- Nice (I2)
- Palermo (IB)
- Paris CDG (I2)
- Tel Aviv (UX)
- Verona (I2)
- Vilnius (FR)

Only Thai is cancelling BKK by the end of season. And most Spanish airports have many new routes.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:05 pm

The key factor to consider in this 'growth' is just how far MAD has shrunk from pre recession levels.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
SCL767
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:30 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 2):
Only Thai is cancelling BKK by the end of season. And most Spanish airports have many new routes.

Great to see that traffic is once again increasing at the MAD hub. TG dropping the thrice weekly BKK-MAD service is long overdue IMO. QR will "pick up the slack" as they will soon go double daily on the DOH-MAD route. Even though UX just terminated its thrice weekly service to SCL, the SCL-MAD route will get six new weekly frequencies later this year.  
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
The key factor to consider in this 'growth' is just how far MAD has shrunk from pre recession levels.

Indeed, that is important. Record was 2007 with 52M PAX. Lowest point has been 2013 with 40M PAX. 2014 closed with 42M PAX.

In any case another key factor are the new high-speed train lines:

- Málaga (Dec. 2007)
- Barcelona (2008)
- Valencia (2010)
- Alicante (2013)

High-speed train has almost killed MAD-ALC and MAD-VLC which previously were among the busiest in Spain. Not to mention of course Madrid-Barcelona where the train has now about half of the market share. All that combined, those are a few million passengers a year.

High-speed train to Northern Spain (EAS, BIO, SDR, OVD, LCG, SCQ, VGO) will take still a while, but it is already having an impact. Madrid-Santiago (600 km.) was 10 hours (!!) or more a few years ago with old equipment, and it will under 5 hours (now it is under 6h) in a few months with new equipment. Madrid-Oviedo is down to 3h this year for instance.

[Edited 2015-03-12 08:37:31]
 
migair54
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:15 pm

Great news for MAD, it´s been a long time in a recession and now it´s time to go up and recover the place MAD has time ago, now let´s see if the Spanish airlines can get good results this years and keep going forward.

What route IB still have not yet recover after the recession?? BOS, IAD, JNB, SJU??

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
Great to see that traffic is once again increasing at the MAD hub. TG dropping the thrice weekly BKK-MAD service is long overdue IMO. QR will "pick up the slack" as they will soon go double daily on the DOH-MAD route. Even though UX just terminated its thrice weekly service to SCL, the SCL-MAD route will get six new weekly frequencies later this year.  

Qatar, Emirates, Etihad and Turkish, Qatar soon 2 daily, Emirates 2 daily and I´m sure the 3rd daily will be in the cards, Etihad soon will be there also, and Turkish has multiple daily flights and very good coverage of more cities in Spain.

I think UX will go direct to SCL when they get the B787, that one stop option was not attractive at all to go vs IB-LA.

Quoting SCQ83 (Thread starter):
Numbers are up in most airports that depend more in local demand and suffered the most from the recession. Sevilla scored a 16.7% increase, Bilbao 8.3%, Valencia 6.8% and Santiago 7.4%.

Airports with more holiday traffic are also up but at more modest levels. Most of them were already in record numbers in 2014. Barcelona has grown by 3.6%, Málaga by 6.0% and Palma de Mallorca by 6.0%

Even Castellon will start getting flights with FR!!!!!

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 1):
With IAG seemingly happy where Iberia's labor costs are now, and MAD being able to accommodate a lot more traffic, the recent IB & Express expansion is probably only the beginning of a lot more to come.   

BA dropped DAR a few months ago, maybe it could be a route to transfer to MAD, however It will be very unlikely, maybe a return to JNB, having Comair there will help.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
The key factor to consider in this 'growth' is just how far MAD has shrunk from pre recession levels.

Some of them are just the return, like HAV, SDQ, but other are new, like Cali and Medellin, I think most of them for I2 are new, some of them never serve by IB or other only with CRJ´s via Air Nostrum. I´m not sure about UX, but I think TLV and DKR are also "brand new"
 
mfc
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:43 pm

Excellent news, if such a growth happens in February, let's see what happens during the coming months.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
What route IB still have not yet recover after the recession?? BOS, IAD, JNB, SJU??

BOS was not cancelled, it was converted to seasonal all will be back from the 29th of March. I guess that IAD never did very well, I doubt that we will see that service back soon. I would like to see JNB back to the route map but I don't know if they are considering it. SJU is currently being operated by UX 2 times a week and maybe there is not enough premium traffic for IB.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
Emirates 2 daily

Don't forget that one of the daily frequencies will be operated by the A380 from the 1st of August.


I was told that the A343 won't be replaced by the new A332s and will be kept to expand services, I hope they will be retrofitted if that happens. I think that 2016 is going to be promising for Iberia in terms of expansion.
So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
 
migair54
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting mfc (Reply 7):
I was told that the A343 won't be replaced by the new A332s and will be kept to expand services, I hope they will be retrofitted if that happens. I think that 2016 is going to be promising for Iberia in terms of expansion.

Actually, the fall in the price of the fuel must have created a lot of new strategies, now the 4 engine A343 won´t be so bad, so maybe they can keep them for a couple of years more and expand.

Quoting mfc (Reply 7):
I guess that IAD never did very well

It didn´t but the market is recovering and if only IB operates the route, previously United-EI were also there, so maybe with a 5-6 weekly A332 it can work.

I would like to see someone from East new in MAD, maybe JAL,CX, AI, SQ.

Quoting mfc (Reply 7):
Don't forget that one of the daily frequencies will be operated by the A380 from the 1st of August.

Correct, since they opening the route it has been a real success for them.
 
r2rho
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:44 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
The key factor to consider in this 'growth' is just how far MAD has shrunk from pre recession levels.

Correct - for now, MAD is simply starting to recover, not necessarily "grow", but is still far from its pre-crisis levels, where it even fought with AMS for position in the top 10.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
In any case another key factor are the new high-speed train lines:

Indeed, these HSR lines will make it more difficult for MAD to recover its pre-crisis levels. Growth will have to come via international routes, not much to be gained from domestic. The big win-win would be to link up the HSR network to MAD - with all the infrastructure being built in Spain, I cannot believe that this no-brainer has not been done.

Quoting mfc (Reply 7):
I was told that the A343 won't be replaced by the new A332s and will be kept to expand services

I have advocated this in past threads - IB should keep at least some A343's around as long as oil is cheap - they can always retire or store them at will when oil comes back up, since they are more than paid off. No need even to retrofit them with the new cabin if they don't stay around long - they could be used to leisure destinations like LH Jump.
Keeping the A343's would actually enable net growth until the A350's come, as the A330's are originally only intented for replacement, not growth.
 
miaintl
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:23 am

UX is sending its 787 to MIA next month.
 
migair54
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 10):
UX is sending its 787 to MIA next month.

I think it is a wet leased B787 from LOT, not yet an UX frame.
 
miaintl
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:19 pm

But will it be flying in LOT colors or Air Europa colors?
 
bogota
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
but other are new, like Cali and Medellin

CLO and MDE are new for IB, but AV already operates direct flights into MAD from both cities.
 
migair54
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 12):
But will it be flying in LOT colors or Air Europa colors?

I think the leasing is for 1 year, so I guess they will paint the plane, or at least add stickers of Air Europa covering the LOT name.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 13):
CLO and MDE are new for IB, but AV already operates direct flights into MAD from both cities.

True.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:44 pm

Thanks to the growth of high-speed rail out of Madrid, we can all forget about going back to 52 million passengers per year out of MAD. MAD from now on will emphasize more international service, and that means the airport will need to upgrade its terminals to support the A350XWB, 777X and A380 on a large scale.
 
migair54
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:56 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 9):
The big win-win would be to link up the HSR network to MAD - with all the infrastructure being built in Spain, I cannot believe that this no-brainer has not been done.

I am agree with you, going from Barajas to Atocha is a big pain, i stopped doing that and took the Alsa in T-4, it will take a bit longer to go my home, but the time wasted is much less.
I can´t believe that HSR is not nicely linked to Barajas, they could have even check in counters like in Nuevos Ministerios, and I think UX offer the plane and train integrated ticket already, it could be great for all the airlines if some of the HSR services could do a quick stop at Barajas. Actually I think the T-4 was planned with that in mind.
 
dcajet
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:12 pm

Any chance of MAD-COR coming back to the network?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
kelual
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 16):
I am agree with you, going from Barajas to Atocha is a big pain, i stopped doing that and took the Alsa in T-4, it will take a bit longer to go my home, but the time wasted is much less.

There is a direct train every 30 minutes, and it takes 24 minutes
 
r2rho
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting kelual (Reply 18):
I am agree with you, going from Barajas to Atocha is a big pain, i stopped doing that and took the Alsa in T-4, it will take a bit longer to go my home, but the time wasted is much less.

There is a direct train every 30 minutes, and it takes 24 minutes

Every 30min is not enough frequency to reliably plan on it if you have a tight connection. And the point was about bringing HSR into MAD, like at other EU airports, such CDG, FRA, AMS, etc, enabling combined air-rail tickets and true intermodal connections.
 
migair54
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:13 pm

Quoting kelual (Reply 18):
There is a direct train every 30 minutes, and it takes 24 minutes
Quoting r2rho (Reply 19):
Every 30min is not enough frequency to reliably plan on it if you have a tight connection. And the point was about bringing HSR into MAD, like at other EU airports, such CDG, FRA, AMS, etc, enabling combined air-rail tickets and true intermodal connections.

I was talking about direct HSR station, I know you can go by train, metro, taxi or bus, but that a big hassle, to keep dragging your bags all around Madrid, specially if you are not familiar with the place.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 17):
Any chance of MAD-COR coming back to the network?

It was a surprise when they launched but now with more economical planes and economy recovering, we might see it again, however I also think that the plane necessary for that route could be use somewhere else better.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 15):
MAD from now on will emphasize more international service, and that means the airport will need to upgrade its terminals to support the A350XWB, 777X and A380 on a large scale.

I think MAD is quite well prepare for this, MAD has handled lot of widebodies for many years, and soon the A380 will fly with EK, specially T-4S is very nicely design and can accomodate a lot of planes in contact gates and remote parkings.
The T-1 should be upgraded, but it can handle a lot of traffic also.
 
r2rho
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 20):
I think MAD is quite well prepare for this, MAD has handled lot of widebodies for many years, and soon the A380 will fly with EK, specially T-4S is very nicely design and can accomodate a lot of planes in contact gates and remote parkings.
The T-1 should be upgraded, but it can handle a lot of traffic also.

agree. There is no problem for widebody growth in T4. But the old terminals, while perfectly fine for typical A320 EU flights, are really not too well suited for widebodies. UX A332s would be OK but 77W or similar would be overkill. Not just in terms of gate space, but in terms of the terminal processing the pax.
 
Stratofish
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 19):
Every 30min is not enough frequency

Amen. 30 mins is a joke. Wspecially since there is no operational need for the scarcity. Trains go to Fuente de la Mora station just 4 minutes away every ten minutes. And Renfe/Cercanias have enough rolling stock to accommodate even future growth. My guess is Esperanza has something to do with it one way or another.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 21):
But the old terminals, while perfectly fine for typical A320 EU flights, are really not too well suited for widebodies. UX A332s would be OK but 77W or similar would be overkill. Not just in terms of gate space, but in terms of the terminal processing the pax.

Right again! Was unfortunate enough to be airside T1 waiting for my flight with 3 or 4 UX A332 and one AM 777 parked simultaneously... what a mess.
Problem is I don't see T1 and T2 expanable. They'd have to tear them down completely and build new modern Terminals. Then again, same has been done elsewhere.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
eielef
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:01 pm

What happened with plans to open direct flights to ASU? There was a new airline from Paraguay with a B762 ready for fly to MAD, nonstop, starting Nov 2014 I think. What happened? None interested?
If not nonstop, maybe a triangle with MVD, VVI or COR could work quite fine...
Paraguayan's economy is one of the fastest growing in Latin America and the only country without flights to Spain (well, in South America)
 
dcajet
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:25 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 23):
Paraguayan's economy is one of the fastest growing in Latin America and the only country without flights to Spain (well, in South America)

Unfortunately for Paraguay, the high tide is not raising the boats there. There is simply very little demand and the one there is so low yielding, that it is not worth the effort for an airline like Iberia. For the record, even AA cancelled the 3x week MIA-ASU run, for the same reason: low yielding traffic and high costs to operate in ASU. It is currently available for sale Dec-March only, just a seasonal operation.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:09 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 19):
Every 30min is not enough frequency

I agree. Frequencies should be increased to at least once every 15 minutes. Besides, they're using short trains for this service and the amount of people using it is increasing.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 20):
The T-1 should be upgraded, but it can handle a lot of traffic also.

Yes, it can handle a lot of traffic as has been proven in the past.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 21):
the old terminals, while perfectly fine for typical A320 EU flights, are really not too well suited for widebodies. UX A332s would be OK but 77W or similar would be overkill. Not just in terms of gate space, but in terms of the terminal processing the pax.
Quoting Stratofish (Reply 22):
Was unfortunate enough to be airside T1 waiting for my flight with 3 or 4 UX A332 and one AM 777 parked simultaneously... what a mess.


T3 gate area (built in 1996) was originally designed for narrowbody jets only. T2 is again able to handle a couple A332s after not being able since the late 90s I think. As for T1, let's not forget that before T4 was inaugurated, T1 handled the entire Iberia widebody fleet plus all flights to/from MAD operated by Air Pullmantur, Air Comet, LAN, Aerolineas Argentinas, Aeromexico, Delta, American, Continental, Avianca, TAM, Qatar, Thai and US Airways among others, and that means a lot of widebody jets, using either jetways or remote stands when parking.

Back in 2005, and before T4 was open, MAD handled 42,1M pax and over 401k flights using T1-T2-T3 only, and a big part of those passengers were processed through T1. That's more pax and aircraft traffic than what the airport handled in 2014. Yes, the airport terminals were operating beyond their theoretical capacity by then, but they now have plenty of room available. T1's south pier (A gates) is only open for a few hours each day and remains closed most of the time. It can handle 5 747-sized aircraft simultaneously plus several others parked on remote stands.

[Edited 2015-03-18 06:05:08]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
r2rho
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RE: Madrid Takes Off And Scores Double Digit Growth

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 25):

Back in 2005, MAD handled 42,1M pax and over 401k flights using T1-T2-T3 only, and a big part of those passengers were processed through T1. That's more pax and aircraft traffic than what the airport handled in 2014. Yes, the airport terminals were operating beyond their theoretical capacity by then, but they now have plenty of room available. T1's south pier (A gates) remains closed for most of the day and it can handle 5 747-sized aircraft simultaneously plus several others parked on remote stands.

I am well aware of what MAD T1-2-3 handled before the expansion, I have been through that horror many times. Makes places like today's TXL seem roomy and spacious.
As I said, the terminals are still great for EU narrowbody flights, as well as the B707's and DC-10's they were designed for... but not modern large widebodies with 85% load factors. And as I said, it is not just a matter of gate space - more or less available at the places you mention - but of terminal processing capacity (check-in counters, security check-points...), which are the true choke points. And the emptiness at south Pier most of the day is due to TATL scheduling banks.
A good short-term solution if widebody growth is needed, is to send all non-SkyTeam widebodies up to T4, and leaving the space for UX and its partners.

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 22):
My guess is Esperanza has something to do with it one way or another.

Airport rail connections (not just in MAD) have been subject of political fights in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were right.

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