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mercure1
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Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:56 pm

With cancellation of merger deal with groupe Dubreuil (parent of Air Caraibes), the head of Corsair parent TUI France Pascal de Izaguirre says the Corsair would proceed with its own refleeting project and was seeking to being acquire 3 or 4 777-300ER aircraft to begin replacing its current 7 strong jumbo fleet. (4 A330 + 3 744).

Article (in French)
http://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-ser...nce-a-racheter-corsair-1099101.php

I think 77W would be excellent choice for SS. Could seat high 400s similar to AF Caraibes-Ocean Indien fleet.
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Polot
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Thread starter):
With cancellation of merger deal with groupe Dubreuil (parent of Air Caraibes)

That deal is already off? Didn't they just announce it a week or 2 ago?
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:04 pm

It was cancelled when work group councils opposed the proposals and threatened commencement of wide raging industrial action. The deal was always contingent on employee approval. No approval, no deal.

Biggest issue was plan for SS to abandon Caribbean flying entirely by 2017-2018 which makes up 2/3 of current activity in favor Air Caraibes and focus on other markets like Indian Ocean, but without guarantee of employment and size of future carrier.

I posted information on abandonment in appropriate thread.
Air Caraibes Takes Corsair (by Flying-Tiger Feb 20 2015 in Civil Aviation)
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na
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Thread starter):

Secondhand frames I guess.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:34 pm

Actually I think they will be new frames. That how news was mentioned to staff.

But maybe via leasing firms ??
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Thread starter):
I think 77W would be excellent choice for SS. Could seat high 400s similar to AF Caraibes-Ocean Indien fleet.

Indeed, especially to replace the three 747s that are on average 22 y.o quadjets. The two A333s have only been delivered in 2012/2013, so I guess they'll stay for a while.
 
na
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Those will be worse sardine cans than the old 744s as they can shovel as many people into one row than in the wider 747!
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:07 pm

The B77W a good replacement for the B747 in many airlines, actually it will improve the economics but the current B747 configuration is 24/558, so I don´t think the B77W can come even close maybe 450 or 460 pax maximum, maybe they will need something bigger in the future.

Corsair could easily take some second hand A380 in the future, maybe from EK,

Where are they going to get second hand B77W?? it won´t be so easy.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting na (Reply 3):
Quoting mercure1 (Thread starter):
Secondhand frames I guess.
Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
Where are they going to get second hand B77W?? it won´t be so easy.

Agreed, I also see Corsair going for second hand 77W's with the earliest ones available probably coming from Emirates. If they want brandnew 77W's, I think they will have a long waiting time and I'm not sure they have the money to lease brand new 77W's (high lease rates due to big demand for the aircraft). In any case, I don't see them going for the A380, that would be too much aircraft for them.


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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
Agreed, I also see Corsair going for second hand 77W's with the earliest ones available probably coming from Emirates. If they want brandnew 77W's, I think they will have a long waiting time and I'm not sure they have the money to lease brand new 77W's (high lease rates due to big demand for the aircraft). In any case, I don't see them going for the A380, that would be too much aircraft for them.

I think I read somewhere that there are still slots available in 2017 for new build 777s.

I don't think any current 77W operator will lease any out before then.

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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:52 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
so I don´t think the B77W can come even close maybe 450 or 460 pax maximum,

Depends on what kind of configuration they want to use. JL seats 500 in its 773As, and that's with premium seats.
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:07 am

Quoting The777Man (Reply 9):
I think I read somewhere that there are still slots available in 2017 for new build 777s.

Half the 2017 production is sold out.
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na
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:29 am

Quoting The777Man (Reply 9):
I don't think any current 77W operator will lease any out before then.

It has been reported by flightglobal that EK is returning the first frames by next year.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:27 am

Air Canada has a highly dense 77W seating 458 seats with 36 J included. So 500 should be possible in all y seating.
 
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Polot
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:34 pm

The 77W's max capacity is 550, so yes it can match the capacity of Corsair 747s. It probably won't be as comfortable as the 747, but it is not like a ~530 seat 747 is winning many awards in that department to begin with.
 
titus95
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:53 pm

Before the already dead merge with Air Caraibes , it was rumored these 77Ws will be sourced from TAM.Do not know if this plan is always relevant.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:18 pm

I know for sure that Kenya Airways is trying to get rid of the B77W, but the lessor don´t want to take them back without them paying the rest of the 10 year less contract. This plane are very new, not more than 1-2 years old, but i´m sure they won´t be cheap.

Quoting na (Reply 12):
It has been reported by flightglobal that EK is returning the first frames by next year.

That must be the best option, anyone know how much is a reconfiguration of this kind of planes??

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
Air Canada has a highly dense 77W seating 458 seats with 36 J included. So 500 should be possible in all y seating.

yes, but Corsair B747 have business class also, they are not all Y

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
The 77W's max capacity is 550, so yes it can match the capacity of Corsair 747s. It probably won't be as comfortable as the 747, but it is not like a ~530 seat 747 is winning many awards in that department to begin with.

I don´t think they are very worry about the comfort, however some other airlines have 4 or 5 stars and the B77W Y section is terrible.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:27 pm

Corsair actually have one they could partner with, VS's leisure operation in Las Vegas, with no routes that was overlapped with each other, they only thing need is connection flight twice daily between Orly and Gatwick
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:26 pm

Wonder why that branch of TUI goes for high capacity long haul when the rest if the group do higher frequency in smaller frames. I would have thought group wide 787s would have been more cost effective. No point in filling 535 seats if theyre not making any profit
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting na (Reply 12):
It has been reported by flightglobal that EK is returning the first frames by next year.


That must be the best option, anyone know how much is a reconfiguration of this kind of planes??


This option has also been studied by Corsair , but rejected as cost for reconfiguration of the cabin is too high.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:29 pm

Which of Corsairs island paradise arrival points could cope with an A380?
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:20 am

Quoting na (Reply 12):
Quoting The777Man (Reply 9):
I don't think any current 77W operator will lease any out before then.

It has been reported by flightglobal that EK is returning the first frames by next year.

But EK still operate 777-300As, would they get rid of the 77Ws before those?
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:52 am

Quoting cx flyboy (Reply 21):

I wouldn't be suprised if the frames they are returning are the -300A's, which are not very old at all
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 22):
I wouldn't be suprised if the frames they are returning are the -300A's, which are not very old at all

12 to 15 years but all older than the 77W's which are 10 or less.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:56 am

Quoting mercure1 (Thread starter):
I think 77W would be excellent choice for SS. Could seat high 400s similar to AF Caraibes-Ocean Indien fleet.

Boeing is keen to sell the remaining slots they have. Corsair will not have a hard time getting a good deal on new airplanes.
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:55 am

I trust a brand new 77W would come up to about USD1.3M in monthly rental - which is almost 1M over the747s (if they are leased). However if they are able to get hold of a 6+ yr old frame, I trust those would come up around USD800k - which, combined with fuel and mx savings, will offer an interesting prospect.
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:21 pm

So airlines which might be the source for used 77Ws are:
Kenya Airways
TAM
possibly Jet Airways (some frames are always leased out for shorter terms, half of the fleet is wearing its fourth paint - currently Etihad)
and
Emirates (early-built lease returns from next year onwards)

Quoting titus95 (Reply 19):
This option has also been studied by Corsair, but rejected as cost for reconfiguration of the cabin is too high.

I think all 77Ws Corsair might source need a major cabin reconfiguration, and new-builds are much too expensive under the current business model.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting na (Reply 26):
its fourth paint - currently Etihad)

This is because Etihad is part owner of Jet Airways which explains why their aircraft are also used on Etihad's route network.

I see many charter airlines lining up to take over Emirates' 77W as soon as Emirates start dumping them.


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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 25):

I trust a brand new 77W would come up to about USD1.3M in monthly rental - which is almost 1M over the747s (if they are leased). However if they are able to get hold of a 6+ yr old frame, I trust those would come up around USD800k - which, combined with fuel and mx savings, will offer an interesting prospect.

For one of the final-build frames, Boeing might be willing to significantly discount the acquisition costs and so the lease might be much lower.

I know that the CEO of DY said that the 787 cost about $1m/month less to operate than the A343. The A343 was about five years newer than the 744 just as the 787 is about five years newer than the 77W. So it would not shock me if the operating costs of the 77W were significantly improved over the 744 to justify the acquisition costs.
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na
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 27):
I see many charter airlines lining up to take over Emirates' 77W as soon as Emirates start dumping them.

At least those which have to replace old 744s. Like Corsair, Air Atlanta. Other used 77W-takers will be airlines which want to bridge the time until they can get 77X-9 and A350-1000s.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):
So it would not shock me if the operating costs of the 77W were significantly improved over the 744 to justify the acquisition costs.

That would be true for a short time only, the 77W will be overtaken quickly by much more effective and A350-1000 and 77X.
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
The 77W's max capacity is 550, so yes it can match the capacity of Corsair 747s. It probably won't be as comfortable as the 747, but it is not like a ~530 seat 747 is winning many awards in that department to begin with.

Corsair International's 747 capacity is more than 550.
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Polot
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:02 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 30):
Corsair International's 747 capacity is more than 550.

Well I was going based what is written on their website:

http://www.corsair.fr/flight/services/Travel-classes/corsair-fleet

It used to be 582 but they reduced it down to 533 seats.

[Edited 2015-03-15 16:03:39]
 
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:32 am

Quoting na (Reply 29):
That would be true for a short time only, the 77W will be overtaken quickly by much more effective and A350-1000 and 77X.

Not at all. The question is the 77W economics vs the 744. Not the 77W vs. the 77X or A350. Yes, the A350 is even more economical to operate than the 77W but it will be much more expensive to acquire and it will not be available soon.

As I see it, Corsair has to replace the 744. The question is: "with what?"
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na
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:55 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
As I see it, Corsair has to replace the 744. The question is: "with what?"

I do not think that new planes will do it for Corsair. Unless they change their business structure which is based on low capital cost. A new 77W means high capital cost, even if Boeing offers them with a bargain. But late-built 77Ws are like late-built 744s or A340s. They wont have a long career, by the late 2020s 77Ws will be old metal and play the role the 744 has now.
With the lower fuel prices of today and the near future maybe late-built 744s might do as interim measure until the early 2020s when two aircraft are available which will be state-of-the-art for more than a decade.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Corsair Seeks To Acquire 777-300ER

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting na (Reply 33):
I do not think that new planes will do it for Corsair. Unless they change their business structure which is based on low capital cost.

All the A330-200 and A330-300 aircraft were acquired brand new by SS.

So I don't see issue with new frames for them.
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