tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:10 am

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 150):
There were no dissenting reports published in conjunction with the Interim report or the Factual information, se we can safely conclude that all the organizations agree on the contests of the said reports.

True, but I would think that there is a pretty high bar that would have to be crossed before they would challenge a written report with a dissenting report, and that would only be in a case where information contributing to aviation safety is misstated or omitted. These Orgs have no interest in making sure that the Malaysian government fully discloses its internal personnel problems or political dirty laundry. The idea that has been forwarded that all of the mentioned organizations have a hand in producing the text of the document(s) is a fabrication. They may be consulted, they may offer an opinion (especially when asked), but they are not in the position to tell the nation with primary responsibility what to write.

I hope that you understand that I'm being straightforward on this as well as all the other issues re: MH370. I am a retired engineer and as such I see a very odd discourse taking place in this public forum.

An engineer's job is to solve the problem before him or her and to transmit information about the task fully and honestly. However other occupations are not held to the same standard, lawyers for example, as part of their normal business activities, regularly and quite systematically withhold information, issue intentionally misleading information, intentionally misunderstand information given them, and attempts at presenting themselves as false sources of authority are just part of a normal days work for them. For an engineer to engage in any of these practices would be unethical.

This may help explain my attitude towards one poster here in the past, and explain why I will not be responding to "lawyerly" arguments in the future. I hope you understand.

[Edited 2015-03-22 22:23:29]
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:00 am

Quoting morsecoder (Reply 147):

One thing about your theory that stands out, is the hacking aspect. It seems like a pretty complicated way of doing things when a knife or gun would get you into the cockpit, I believe, with much less hassle.

The pilots will probably come out eventually,and the cabin crew will be taking dinner, drinks or whatever to the pilots.

Otherwise, I'm with you on the likelihood that a party other than the pilots took over the plane and either knew enough to program the flight control systems, or made the pilots do it.


The simplest answer for me, as to why nobody got alarmed when the plane went dark, or the blips turned around, is that nobody was looking for it to happen. The flight had signed off of Malaysian ATC, so it was no longer their problem. They were supposed to hand off to Vietnam, but their ATC wouldn't necessarily know the minute when the flight was supposed to enter their airspace...they were probably waiting for the call from the aircraft, before they were going to pay attention.

The random blip flying around SE Asia possibly wouldn't have been noticed by ATC, and the military radars could very well have been napping, or chatting or playing ping pong...or something other than paying attention to their screens.

Nobody was at war, it was at night...what could their possibly be to worry about?

My impression of the folks on the ground is about complacency and/or incompetence, rather than conspiracy. I have no doubt that everybody concerned were doing their best to sugar coat the information to put themselves in the best light, but if they were trying for a coverup....they failed miserably.
What the...?
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:07 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 152):
Otherwise, I'm with you on the likelihood that a party other than the pilots took over the plane and either knew enough to program the flight control systems, or made the pilots do it.

And what party might that be? LOL.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 153):

It should be snap to figure out...If you take away the pilots, that leaves only 235 possible suspects.
What the...?
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:34 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 154):
It should be snap to figure out...If you take away the pilots, that leaves only 235 possible suspects.

Stupid me. Forgot all about those potential lurking criminal elements in the pax cabin.   
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:37 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 154):
It should be snap to figure out...If you take away the pilots, that leaves only 235 possible suspects.

That's not so hard to do if you have thousands of investigators, which the nations which had passengers on that flight just happen to have. And these nations have looked at all these 235 people and have found no oddities, and no political dissidents, except the Captain.
 
morsecoder
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:42 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:50 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 152):
One thing about your theory that stands out, is the hacking aspect. It seems like a pretty complicated way of doing things when a knife or gun would get you into the cockpit, I believe, with much less hassle.

The timing of events - both around 1719 and 1825 UTC - and the flight path taken are consistent with an intent to avoid discovery of the diversion. If that was the intent and it was critical to the plan, whatever that might have been, then the hijacker would also have to ensure that the pilots did not communicate with anyone, actively via terrestrial or satellite radio or passively via a radar transponder. Putting those systems out of immediate reach of the pilots is a necessary first step. Figuring out a way to do that reliably (or at least verifiably prior to physical action) would have been the "secret sauce" that made the rest of the plan possible.
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:54 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 151):
True, but I would think that there is a pretty high bar that would have to be crossed before they would challenge a written report with a dissenting report, and that would only be in a case where information contributing to aviation safety is misstated or omitted. These Orgs have no interest in making sure that the Malaysian government fully discloses its internal personnel problems or political dirty laundry. The idea that has been forwarded that all of the mentioned organizations have a hand in producing the text of the document(s) is a fabrication. They may be consulted, they may offer an opinion (especially when asked), but they are not in the position to tell the nation with primary responsibility what to write.

If they do not agree with the findings of the report they can write a dissenting report on why they do not agree. The fact that we do not have a dissenting report does not automatically lead to the thinking that they are saving it for later. If there were facts that they didn't agree with they would have written something to state it. If one of these agencies had information and they weren't acting on it they would be liable for endangering lives. No use saying, "we thought it was this but didn't say anything because we didn't want to upset some people, we should have said it before it happened again."

You have to accept that the facts at present doesn't agree with your intended scenario. This may change in future, but at the moment it is what it is. You may still be proven correct, we have to wait and see if they find the wreckage to solve the mystery* of MH370. (*mystery, something that is difficult or impossible to explain)
 
YoungMans
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:31 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:17 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 152):
The simplest answer for me, as to why nobody got alarmed when the plane went dark, or the blips turned around, is that nobody was looking for it to happen. The flight had signed off of Malaysian ATC, so it was no longer their problem. They were supposed to hand off to Vietnam, but their ATC wouldn't necessarily know the minute when the flight was supposed to enter their airspace...they were probably waiting for the call from the aircraft, before they were going to pay attention.

It seems that these assumptions may not be quite correct.
At 1739 UTC "... HCM ATCC queried KL ATCC on the whereabouts of MH370."
That was 17 minutes after MH370 was expected over IGARI.
Then we have:
"The disappearance of the radar position symbol of MH370 was captured by the KL ATCC radar at time 1721:13 UTC ..."
This is from the Factual Information.
Whilst it may be true that nobody was looking for anything like this to happen, they didn't seem to be overly concerned with it; that is what is so unbelievable.
What does it tell us when the ATC of one country feels obliged to ask the ATC of another country:
"Hey, where is your aircraft? Haven't heard from it yet ..!"
One can really only come to one conclusion, the KL ATC was already fully aware, right there and then, that something was afoot.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1958
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:55 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 159):
Whilst it may be true that nobody was looking for anything like this to happen, they didn't seem to be overly concerned with it; that is what is so unbelievable.

My opinion - someone at KUL ATCC had contacted MH Operations Centre after they tried to reestablish contact at 1741:23 UTC, and someone from MH Operations had advised that the plane is still flying and that the airline is in contact.

Since MH said they were in contact with the aircraft, it's now out of KUL ATCC airspace and there's a steady stream of other traffic to handle, the controller's felt that he's free to switch his focus from MH370 to the other planes assuming that everything is fine and dandy.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1958
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:00 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 151):
True, but I would think that there is a pretty high bar that would have to be crossed before they would challenge a written report with a dissenting report, and that would only be in a case where information contributing to aviation safety is misstated or omitted. These Orgs have no interest in making sure that the Malaysian government fully discloses its internal personnel problems or political dirty laundry. The idea that has been forwarded that all of the mentioned organizations have a hand in producing the text of the document(s) is a fabrication. They may be consulted, they may offer an opinion (especially when asked), but they are not in the position to tell the nation with primary responsibility what to write.

Because it's not pertinent to the case at hand. And to be honest, the Malaysian government is incapable of creating fabrication that can easily fool technical experts from the NTSB, ATSB, BEA & AAIB. If they were, they wouldn't be having political troubles now would they?

Go read the MH17 threads to see how government obfuscation really look like.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:27 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 159):

Even when they finally noticed something wasn't quite right, as far as I can tell, nobody was acting like they were overly concerned. It took over 5 hours from the time when somebody finally noticed the blip had disappeared, for an alarm to sound and 5 more hours before the first search plane took off.

Nobody was asking if military radar spotted the aircraft.

The whole first day, (and maybe longer), went from complacency to confusion to panic to incompetence. There may have been a half arsed attempt to save their hides, but that just conjured up more confusion, panic and incompetence. I'm sure they would have loved to lay down some coverup spin, but there were way too many eyes and ears on this as soon as the first word got out that even in their most panicked state, they would have knows that whatever they tried to bury, wouldn't stay buried very long.

Imagine how much different the story would have been if HCM had called KL within the 5 minutes they were supposed to, then KL, HCM and whomever else had a two way, got off their butts and really tried to contact the aircraft. Then, when they couldn't, they started examining their radar tracks and scrambled some jets.

They might have caught up to the plane before it even passed by Banda Aceh.

If they had managed to find MH370 before it disappeared over the Indian Ocean, there's a very good chance that all the mysteries would have been solved long before now.

I sure hope they have learned their lessons and are now paying better attention to their jobs.
What the...?
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:04 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 151):
The idea that has been forwarded that all of the mentioned organizations have a hand in producing the text of the document(s) is a fabrication. They may be consulted, they may offer an opinion (especially when asked), but they are not in the position to tell the nation with primary responsibility what to write.

Annex 13, Convention on International Civil Aviation:

Article 5.25:

"Participation in the investigation shall confer entitlement to participate in all aspects of the investigation, ... in particular to:
...
c) obtain witness information and suggest areas of questioning;
d) have full access to all relevant evidence as soon as possible;
e) receive copies of all pertinent documents;
...
h) participate in investigation progress meetings including deliberations related to analysis, findings, causes and safety recommendations"...

Article 6.3:

"If the State conducting the investigation receives comments ... it shall either amend the draft Report to include the substance of the comments received or, if desired by the State that provided comments, append the comments to the Report.



The report, issued by the whole Investigation Team, stated:

"1.5.8 Psychological and Social Events
The Captain’s ability to handle stress at work and home was good. There was no known history of apathy, anxiety, or irritability. There were no significant changes in his life style, interpersonal conflict or family stresses.

1.5.9 Behavioural Events
There were no behavioural signs of social isolation, change in habits or interest, self-neglect, drug or alcohol abuse of the Captain, First Officer and the Cabin Crew.
...
On studying the Captain’s behavioural pattern on CCTV recordings on the day of the flight and prior 3 flights there was no significant behavioural changes observed. On all the CCTV recordings the appearance was similar, i.e. well groomed and attired. The gait, posture, facial expressions and mannerism were his normal characteristics."



We're still awaiting your explanation of how and why the NTSB, ATSB, BEA, AAIB (UK), AAIB (Singapore), NTSC and CAAC are complicit in a cover up. The only "evidence" you have offered is Facebook and a story in the Daily Mail that the captain was estranged from his family which was immediately and vigorously denied by the family (who were also questioned by the Investigation Team).



Quoting tailskid (Reply 151):
An engineer's job is to solve the problem before him or her and to transmit information about the task fully and honestly. However other occupations are not held to the same standard, lawyers for example, as part of their normal business activities, regularly and quite systematically withhold information, issue intentionally misleading information, intentionally misunderstand information given them, and attempts at presenting themselves as false sources of authority are just part of a normal days work for them. For an engineer to engage in any of these practices would be unethical.

And how many lawyers do you thing are on the Investigation Team? It is composed of 3 committees - Operations, Airworthiness, and Medical/Human Factors.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 156):
And these nations have looked at all these 235 people and have found no oddities, and no political dissidents, except the Captain.

Could you quote a source or two that shows that this is fact?

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 157):
If they do not agree with the findings of the report they can write a dissenting report on why they do not agree. The fact that we do not have a dissenting report does not automatically lead to the thinking that they are saving it for later. If there were facts that they didn't agree with they would have written something to state it. If one of these agencies had information and they weren't acting on it they would be liable for endangering lives. No use saying, "we thought it was this but didn't say anything because we didn't want to upset some people, we should have said it before it happened again."

The fact that there is no dissenting report means nothing to me. You seem to be arguing with a strawman of some kind.

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 157):
You have to accept that the facts at present doesn't agree with your intended scenario. This may change in future, but at the moment it is what it is. You may still be proven correct, we have to wait and see if they find the wreckage to solve the mystery* of MH370. (*mystery, something that is difficult or impossible to explain)

What facts don't agree with what scenario?

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 160):
Because it's not pertinent to the case at hand. And to be honest, the Malaysian government is incapable of creating fabrication that can easily fool technical experts from the NTSB, ATSB, BEA & AAIB. If they were, they wouldn't be having political troubles now would they?

If you read my paragraph again you may understand that my premise here is that nothing that Malaysia would likely want to hide would rise to the level of being challenged by any of those organizations. And as I have already stated several times, Malaysia controls what information is given out. For instance, if they want to hold back on the radar data from the Pulu Pinang Selex Sistemi radar, they just don't mention those recordings, that leaves nothing for anyone to challenge. And if you read the interim report you will notice that there is no mention of the radar on Pulu Pinang.

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 160):
Go read the MH17 threads to see how government obfuscation really look like.

Go back and read my posts in that thread before you get on a high horse about political awareness.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 163):
Could you quote a source or two that shows that this is fact?

I'm not your secretarial helper. The vetting was covered here in this thread circa early March of 2014, if you want to see it go back and find it yourself. The same with Zaharie's political interests.
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
I'm not your secretarial helper.

Nice!

The onus of proof is with you, not me. That's how it works.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
The vetting was covered here in this thread circa early March of 2014, if you want to see it go back and find it yourself. The same with Zaharie's political interests.

So, the answer is no. You cannot provide a factual source.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1771
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:45 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 165):
So, the answer is no. You cannot provide a factual source.

Look, the captain did it because the captain did it. We all know that, and those of us who still refuse to accept this haven't been paying attention. Now will you please stop trying to meddle with your logic?  

For the record, the captain was thoroughly vetted as described in the recent Factual Information report. Clean as a whistle!
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 161):
and scrambled some jets.

Joe, it doesn't work like that. Very few countries have ever maintained jet interceptors on even 30 minute standby on all their borders, the United States doesn't even do that, it is very expensive in manpower alone to keep interceptors on hot status.

Most or all of the times in history where interceptors were kept manned and ready to go, they were defending a single line, such as the cold war NORAD line defending the northern approach to North America, or NATO's line facing east or the current border patrol in the US facing the Mexican border.

Then there is another unpleasant reality about the procedures covering "lost plane" occurrences. The escalation to DETRESFA or distress phase isn't done until an hour has passed under international rules. But the fact that this plane went missing when it was not under the control of any ATC gave it an extra hour on top of that first hour.


a. Uncertainty phase (INCERFA). When there is concern about the safety of an aircraft or its occupants, an INCERFA exists:

1. When communication from an aircraft has not been received within 30 minutes after the time a communication should have been received or after the time an unsuccessful attempt to establish communication with such aircraft was first made, whichever is earlier; or.............................

3. When communication from an aircraft has not been received within 60 minutes after the time a communication should have been received or after the time an unsuccessful attempt to establish communication with such aircraft was first made, whichever is earlier.

c. Distress phase (DETRESFA). When there is reasonable certainty that the aircraft and its occupants are threatened by grave and imminent danger, a DETRESFA exists

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/ATC/atc1006.html
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 165):
The onus of proof is with you, not me. That's how it works.

The onus of reading the thread is with you, not me. That's how it works
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
The fact that there is no dissenting report means nothing to me. You seem to be arguing with a strawman of some kind.

You will believe what you want to believe. Once again no-one will deny that there is a chance that one of the crew is responsible. You are one of the few trying to convince others that this is fact and trying to use the current information to forward that theory.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
What facts don't agree with what scenario?

The investigation has looked for warning signs in regard to the Captain and could not find any flashing warning lights. Does not mean he didn't do it, but with the current information you cannot place blame at this time.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
The fact that there is no dissenting report means nothing to me.

But it does to the rest of us who can read article 6.3 of Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, which you're choosing to ignore.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
And as I have already stated several times, Malaysia controls what information is given out.

You're choosing to ignore article 5.25 of Annex 13, cited in post 162.

We're still awaiting your explanation of how and why the NTSB, ATSB, BEA, AAIB (UK), AAIB (Singapore), NTSC and CAAC would be complicit in a cover up.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 150):
lawyers for example, as part of their normal business activities, regularly and quite systematically withhold information, issue intentionally misleading information, intentionally misunderstand information given them, and attempts at presenting themselves as false sources of authority are just part of a normal days work for them.

At the risk of dignifying your insults with a response, all I've done is cite the relevant provisions of the Convention on International Civil Aviation which is hardly presenting myself as a false source of authority.

Similarly, when I pointed out that the report was issued by an investigative team composed of 8 agencies, you called me a liar.

And yet you respond to a request for sources with

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
I'm not your secretarial helper.

For your information, I do not practise law, but have been a law professor at a university that is home to the Institute of Air and Space Law. I have also been a senior consultant to ICAO.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 150):
An engineer's job is to solve the problem before him or her and to transmit information about the task fully and honestly.

So I guess you're not an engineer. I've never met an engineer who relies on Facebook and the Daily Mail as primary evidence.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
User avatar
777Jet
Topic Author
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 150):
An engineer's job is to solve the problem before him or her and to transmit information about the task fully and honestly.

I wonder how many engineers have worked out with 100% certainty what happened to MH370 like you have? Have you told the investigators / authorities that you have solved the mystery yet?

Quoting tailskid (Reply 155):
That's not so hard to do if you have thousands of investigators, which the nations which had passengers on that flight just happen to have. And these nations have looked at all these 235 people and have found no oddities, and no political dissidents, except the Captain.

The Captain as well as the FO and all other crew members were vetted too in case you forgot.

If the passengers are all 'good' because they were vetted then all of the crew must also be 'good' given that they were vetted too, no?

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 158):
One can really only come to one conclusion, the KL ATC was already fully aware, right there and then, that something was afoot.

No. That is not the only conclusion that one can come to, especially somebody who has spent years in SE Asia.

Here is what I think might have happened, given the time that this happened:

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 107):
This is a typical Malaysian trait of being too laid back, known as the "tidak apa" (which translates as never mind) attitude. It's not limited to government workers but is fairly common among Malaysians.

The same is common in Thailand too, and throughout the region for that matter. In Thailand it is called the 'Mai Pen Rai' - 'nevermind' attitude.

I just think that those who should have been quite a bit more alert when MH370 went silent during the ATC handover where a bit too relaxed at the time - something as simple as that. I really doubt that the way too slow response by ATC to MH370 was underpinned by anything sinister / intentional.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
Quoting bond007 (Reply 163):
Could you quote a source or two that shows that this is fact?

I'm not your secretarial helper. The vetting was covered here in this thread circa early March of 2014, if you want to see it go back and find it yourself. The same with Zaharie's political interests.

Note: Refer to this post when a certain member asks others to provide a source in the future  
Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 166):
For the record, the captain was thoroughly vetted as described in the recent Factual Information report. Clean as a whistle!

The Captain sure was vetted, and I would not be surprised if the vetting of the crew would have been slightly more thorough than the vetting of the passengers.

If the passengers were good because they were vetted, then the crew must also be good because they were vetted too - including the Captain  
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 171):
Quoting tailskid (Reply 150):
An engineer's job is to solve the problem before him or her and to transmit information about the task fully and honestly.

So I guess you're not an engineer. I've never met an engineer who relies on Facebook and the Daily Mail as primary evidence.

Neither have I  
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
exfss
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:54 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:01 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 155):
And these nations have looked at all these 235 people and have found no oddities, and no political dissidents, except the Captain.

Not true.
You are lying and have no source for saying that.
Report show Nothing wrong with the captain.!!

Would you stop lying and accusing without proof please?
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting exfss (Reply 176):
Report show Nothing wrong with the captain.!!
Quoting bond007 (Reply 163):
Could you quote a source or two that shows that this is fact?

MH370 pilot 'chief suspect'
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...world_news/Asia/article1425492.ece


In the weeks before the 2013 election, Zaharie shared a video of Hishammuddin Hussein, who was at that time home affairs minister and is now acting transportation minister, at a press conference with a caption ‘‘real joker.’’
In another post featuring a doctored picture of Najib, he used the word ‘‘moron.’’

‘‘Fifty years in power by a single party (coalition) does not say much about democracy in the country,’’
Zaharie wrote on Jan. 18, 2013. If opposition leaders are ‘‘willing to stand in the line of fire, the least we could do is support them.

‘‘There is a rebel in each and everyone of us...let it out!’’ he wrote more than two weeks after the May 2013 vote.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/worl.../L9SysfTgmlfsklq7TbKQgK/story.html



"Malaysia's special branch focused the inquiry on Captain Zaharie Shah, 53, after intelligence checks failed to substantiate any suspicions about the other people on board the jet. "
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-shah/story-e6frg95x-1226962734150



This site has many of Zaharie's more radical writings.
When is it enough? When is the government repression enough to make one resort to violence? Be a revolutionary not an everyday garden variety nothing. Dare to struggle Dare to win............. The elections are over so the ruling party is attempting to destroy us. We are not going to be quiet. Something is going to happen............
http://www.slideshare.net/AJWeberman/ms370-anwar-ibrahim-and-ambang

@Kaiarahi in post 179

Is this one of your Lawyer tricks - to pretend that you haven't been answered multiple times already? And to pretend that this is an honest request for information?

[Edited 2015-03-23 18:04:24]
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 150):
An engineer's job is to solve the problem before him or her and to transmit information about the task fully and honestly.

And the "engineer's" sources for evidence are newspaper reports. Ignoring an official report validated by the NTSB, ATSB, BEA, AAIB (UK), AAIB (Singapore), NTSC and CAAC.   

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 170):
We're still awaiting your explanation of how and why the NTSB, ATSB, BEA, AAIB (UK), AAIB (Singapore), NTSC and CAAC would be complicit in a cover up.
Quoting tailskid (Reply 180):
Is this one of your Lawyer tricks - to pretend that you haven't been answered multiple times already? And to pretend that this is an honest request for information?

No. You've never answered. We're all waiting for your response.

By the way, I've pointed out that I'm not a practising lawyer - just a former law professor who has advised ICAO. Let's hear your response - or just shut up, to the relief of dozens on this thread who maintain an open mind.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 181):
And the "engineer's" sources for evidence are newspaper reports. Ignoring an official report validated by the NTSB, ATSB, BEA, AAIB (UK), AAIB (Singapore), NTSC and CAAC.   

Well, considering what we do know about Zaharie's social media posting, AND the fact that he was a political ally and relative of a man (Anwar) who just 8 hours prior to the departure of MH370 had a 5 year sodomy reaffirmed, are you saying that this shouldn't give one pause?

Why would this information not be noted by the report? Particularly the latter point (Anwar). How possibly could a determination be made that these were DEFINITIVELY not relevant?

Geez, guy was only in charge of the safety of the plane and pax.

[Edited 2015-03-23 18:52:34]
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 181):
At least we seem to agree on something .......... It's cute how you try to distance yourself from practicing lawyers! Now, on to the points we are trying to resolve.



Thank you for providing this - the underlines here are mine.
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 162):
Article 5.25:
"Participation in the investigation shall confer entitlement to participate in all aspects of the investigation, ... in particular to:
...
c) obtain witness information and suggest areas of questioning;
d) have full access to all relevant evidence as soon as possible;
e) receive copies of all pertinent documents;
...
h) participate in investigation progress meetings including deliberations related to analysis, findings, causes and safety recommendations"...

Article 6.3:
"If the State conducting the investigation receives comments ... it shall either amend the draft Report to include the substance of the comments received or, if desired by the State that provided comments, append the comments to the Report.

The first underline points out that either the NTSB, ATSB, BEA, AAIBs, NTSC or CAAC may suggest questions, I see no power there to order or demand that questions be asked of witnesses, nor do I see any power to directly ask questions by those participants. Their participation is clearly limited to being observers unless the party conducting the investigation wishes to bring them in as accessories.

The second underline clearly defines the fact that there is a "State conducting the investigation" and shows that the the State conducting the investigation, in this case Malaysia, is the one in control of what goes into the report and what gets tacked on at the end. We would have to assume that this gives them considerable negotiating power in resolving differences.

So what I said before still stands.
Quoting tailskid (Reply 164):
If you read my paragraph again you may understand that my premise here is that nothing that Malaysia would likely want to hide would rise to the level of being challenged by any of those organizations. And as I have already stated several times, Malaysia controls what information is given out.

Could we now put this legal mumble jumble behind us and return our focus to aviation matters?

[Edited 2015-03-23 19:06:23]
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14560
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:03 am

Some have noted what could be criticism by me as to the long running and huge number of posts here and elsewhere as to this loss. I do like to see the conversation continue along with trying to locate the remains of this aircraft and of its passengers as is one of the greatest mysteries of our time. It took years to locate the remains of AF447 but it clearly helped determine the likely cause and how to reduce such events in the future, as we would like to see here.

As to hijacking based causes, I would suggest some serious issues with them.
First of all, likely you would need multiple - 3 to 5 persons to be involved. So far an examination of the passenger list seems to not bring out any obvious potential hijackers.
Likely one of more of the hijackers would have to have weapons or explosives that they somehow got past airport and airline security. Possible but difficult.
Likely the pilots would not cooperate with any first threats and likely would have did a hijacking message.
Some of the hijackers would need significant knowledge as to this particular aircraft model as well as the electronic, communications, recording and pressurization equipment to do what we believe occurred.
Motive for the hijackers. Flying a plane till it ran out of fuel doesn't seem to make such sense unless accomplished by a lot of publicity. So far we have yet to hear of any such announcements.
 
joffie
Posts: 846
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:45 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 184):
It took years to locate the remains of AF447

The tail was found within 5 days. . The transponder was not switched off, however took 2 years to recover the FDR. Over a year later not a single trace of this plane has been found

I am beginning to think its time to lock this thread for good as its just the same people going in circles. I suppose it is a good way to increase your post numbers..
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:29 am

Quoting joffie (Reply 185):
its just the same people going in circles.

It may be mostly the same people but if you pay attention, it is not going in circles, although it does seem to move glacially slowly sometimes.

For many months one faction here tried to question, cast doubt on or out and out dismiss the Inmarsat information, but that tack seems to have run its course. We are now all agreed upon a flight path, this month is the first time since this debate started a year ago that that could be said.

We're making progress.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 186):
We're making progress.

Aside from what has been revealed in the official investigation over the past year, what progress have we made? I'm just curious what the facts are that we on A.net know that have not been revealed already through the various agencies involved?

It's an honest question.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:50 am

I write a bunch of not nice things about Ted Cruz, (republicans in general),Fox News, Putin, former President Saleh of Yemen, white sugar, liver, the hypocrisy of 'enhanced interrogation'...and I haven't crashed a single plane yet.

It's entirely possible to have negative personal views that don't impact ones work in the least. It's certainly not evidence that the pilot is a mass murderer.

Did he ever issue specific, repeated or documented threats against Malaysian Airlines, the work, the people he worked with, the drive to work...anything that shows he had specific hatred, which would have to be the least of your attitudes to kill a whole bunch of people who have done you no wrong.

All I could find are people who said he loved his job and seemed to be an all around good guy.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 180):
This site has many of Zaharie's more radical writings.

Here's another quote from the first article in your post;

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/worl.../L9SysfTgmlfsklq7TbKQgK/story.html

Quote:
While authorities need to follow all leads, ‘‘it’s a bit early to make conclusions’’ by linking political leanings to the missing plane, said Ibrahim Suffian, a political analyst based near Kuala Lumpur at the Merdeka Center for Opinion Research. ‘‘As observers, we have no clue what’s going through the minds of the crew, the passengers, the pilots.’’

The second article is subscriber only so I can't read that one. But as for the quote you posted...it only says the pilot was investigated...not convicted...but that's hardly surprising and I'd be more surprised if they didn't. The flight crew will always be the first subjects of any aviation incident.

As for the third article, he doesn't ever mention Malaysian Airlines, crashing a plane, harming anyone. The only 'quote' where Zaharie supposedly said, "bring down an airliner", can't be found by me, much less substantiated. If you have more than one source other than the Slideshare blog, I would be very interested in seeing it.

What my search did find, was multiple quotes saying Al Qaeda would love to bring down an airliner, not that Zaharie did or would. As for the rumour of his pending divorce, it certainly didn't come from his wife, Faizah. Apparently, she only spoke to the media once, and that was to confirm that the voice on the ATC tape was Zaharie's.

So, he was pissed at the Malaysian government...so what? If everybody who hated a government was a terrorist, the republican's would have taken out Obama long ago.

As for downing the airliner for a cause, or to support Anwar Ibrahim, I can't find anything to suggest Ibrahim took credit for it or ordered it. That just doesn't make sense anyway, since mysteriously downing an airliner does precious little to hurt the government. Nobody taking credit for it makes it a complete failure as a terrorist plot.

Sure, the Malaysian government is corrupt as hell...but even the US congress is bought and paid for by special interest groups...and that doesn't mean people who hate them are terrorists.

So everything I read in your sources is little more than speculation, a lot of it is reaching for even the most tenuous connection to the possibility of Zaharie crashing the plane.

Not only that, the article attributing the, "bringing down an airliner", to Zaharie is from may 2014. I couldn't find anything more recent, (or anywhere but that blog), that gives Zaharie credit for that quote.

Sure, it may have been Zaharie and just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean it didn't happen, but your alleged evidence against Zaharie doesn't come close to being anything more than rumor...it just doesn't.

[Edited 2015-03-23 20:53:41]
What the...?
 
LovesCoffee
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 4:07 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 182):
Why would this information not be noted by the report?

Because it has no bearing on the accident.
Life is too short for cheap coffee.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:13 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 187):
Aside from what has been revealed in the official investigation over the past year, what progress have we made? I'm just curious what the facts are that we on A.net know that have not been revealed already through the various agencies involved?
A.net doesn't supply "facts" it supplies analysis and it uses "facts" and information from many sources. I don't know what you mean by "various agencies" but I suspect that the sources for what has been discussed here come from a wider venue of sources than your "various agencies".
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:19 am

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 189):
Because it has no bearing on the accident.

And just what is it that has allowed you to arrive at such a conclusion? Pleas expound.
 
User avatar
777Jet
Topic Author
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:26 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 184):
I do like to see the conversation continue along with trying to locate the remains of this aircraft and of its passengers as is one of the greatest mysteries of our time.
Quoting joffie (Reply 185):
Over a year later not a single trace of this plane has been found

On the topic of trying to locate the remains of 9M-MRO, and the fact that not a single trace of the plane has been found over 12 months after it went missing, I found the following story from about a week ago somewhat interesting (the same story can be found on several news websites):

"Ocean cleaning operation casts doubt on whether search for MH370 is in the right place: Volunteers in Tasmania say wreckage would have washed up from that area by now"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-say-wreckage-washed-area-now.html

A few selected quotes:

""Volunteers have scoured beaches, rocks and shallow waters along a 60-mile stretch of coast in the lower corner of the island state, located to the south of the Australian continent, picking up no less than 80,000 pieces of rubbish.

Some of the debris has drifted 6,000 miles across the Indian Ocean from as far away as Madagascar and South Africa but there has been nothing that appears to be from the Malaysia Airlines jet.

Yet the official search area for the aircraft, some 1200 miles south west of Perth in Western Australia, lies virtually in the path that the rubbish from the other side of the ocean has drifted along.""

""If nothing more, the discovery of rubbish from Madagascar and South Africa confirms that the ocean tides will carry debris many thousands of miles, passing close to the MH370 search area, to the shores of Australia - and perhaps onwards into the Pacific Ocean.""


I understand the existence of the Indian Ocean gyre, but if it is true that items have been able to drift across the Indian Ocean and end up in Tasmania, after possibly passing right through the current MH370 search area, I find it hard to believe that all of 9M-MRO's floating remains would be trapped in the gyre - some items must have been able to float on closer towards land. If MH370 has not been found after the search of the priority search area has concluded, and no debris have yet been found, then I fear it may have flown / impacted the ocean farther South than expected - just far enough South where any floating debris might be carried in the currents that pass under / South of Australia. It could be possible that the debris would pass under Australia / New Zealand and end up deep in the South Pacific Ocean, heading towards South America or Antarctica...

[Edited 2015-03-23 21:37:17]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:42 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 192):
I understand the existence of the Indian Ocean gyre, but if it is true that items have been able to drift across the Indian Ocean and end up in Tasmania, after passing right through the current MH370 search area, I find it hard to believe that all of 9M-MRO's floating remains would be trapped in the gyre - some items must have been able to float on closer towards land. If MH370 has not been found after the search of the priority search area has concluded, and no debris have yet been founf, then I fear it may have flown / impacted the ocean farther South than expected - just far enough South where any floating debris might be carried in the currents that pass under / South of Australia. It could be possible that the debris would pass under Australia / New Zealand and end up deep in the South Pacific Ocean, heading towards South America or Antarctica...

He ditched. Southern leg Z was alive and well. My man had things to do, loose ends to tie up, some pensive reflection etc...

Or, he flew into the crater of a volcano. I'm serious, but this would require a reevaluation of the BTO/BFO data.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 172):
The Captain as well as the FO and all other crew members were vetted too in case you forgot.

If the passengers are all 'good' because they were vetted then all of the crew must also be 'good' given that they were vetted too, no?

You know very well our friend Z could not have been PROPERLY vetted. This is no small matter and brings about serious questions as to the integrity of the report.         
 
LovesCoffee
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 4:07 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 191):
And just what is it that has allowed you to arrive at such a conclusion? Pleas expound.

Because everyone, and I mean everyone - crew and pax, were thoroughly vetted. The crew probably more than the pax. No issues were found, not even one. Had they found a tendency to radicalism in the captain, it would have been listed. Are you upset because your beloved roast of the captain may be at an end?
Life is too short for cheap coffee.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:57 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 188):
If you have more than one source other than the Slideshare blog

The reason I gave slideshare as a citation is that they had screenshots of Zaharie's blog. There is a lot of extraneous information there that I have ignored, including all the AQ stuff which I think has nothing to do with the very westernized, apparently agnostic or possibly atheistic Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah. I also put no stock in the "bring down an airliner" remark, I think it likely that was an added comment from slideshare, it was in bold and there is no screenshot to support it.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 188):
I can't find anything to suggest Ibrahim took credit for it or ordered it.
And I don't think we ever will. IMO this was not a conspiracy, it was a one man operation.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 188):
So everything I read in your sources is little more than speculation
They were merely citations to show that I didn't just make up stuff like ‘‘There is a rebel in each and everyone of us...let it out!’’, "When is it enough? When is the government repression enough to make one resort to violence?", "Be a revolutionary not an everyday garden variety nothing. Dare to struggle Dare to win............." and "The elections are over so the ruling party is attempting to destroy us. We are not going to be quiet. Something is going to happen............ " as I have been accused of here.

That site had screenshots of some of the actual pages he posted.

The only reason I'm delving into this stuff is because of the claims here that the psychological assessment in the Interim report was anything but a whitewash. If the Interim psychological report had any real substance it would have dealt with the fact that Zaharie was a discontent political radical.

[Edited 2015-03-23 22:00:15]
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:07 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 195):
The only reason I'm delving into this stuff is because of the claims here that the psychological assessment in the Interim report was anything but a whitewash. If the Interim psychological report had any real substance it would have dealt with the fact that Zaharie was a discontent political radical.

Correct good sir.

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 194):
No issues were found, not even one.

Do you think it an 'issue' worth noting that the captain's friend and political ally (and relative) was sentenced to prison (his conviction upheld) for 5 years on politically trumped up charges just 8 hours prior to the a/c departure?

Do you think it POSSIBLE that this could be relevant to the pilots state of mind?

Does ANYONE know Zaharie's state of mind that evening?

Would you want to know this information if you had lost a loved one who was on board MH370. Would you not find this potentially relevant?
 
User avatar
777Jet
Topic Author
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 193):
He ditched.

Whilst I also believe that we are dealing with an attempted / controlled ditching, I have no doubt that even under the best scenario the massive 777 engines and quite a few other parts would have broken off of the plane and broken up... That not a single thing from the plane has been found after so long is quite remarkable IMHO...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
User avatar
777Jet
Topic Author
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 193):
Southern leg Z was alive and well. My man had things to do, loose ends to tie up, some pensive reflection etc...


Let's visit an earlier part of the flight...

Do you think your man Z also might have turned the FO's phone on -(after already having dealt with him)- whilst passing back across the peninsula to either:

A) Make it look like the FO was alive?

or,

B) Go through the private content on the FO's phone, such as messages, pics, etc.?

Quoting tailskid (Reply 195):
IMO this was not a conspiracy, it was a one man operation.

A 'lone wolf' type operation?

[Edited 2015-03-23 22:24:55]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
oxymorph
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:57 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 198):
Do you think your man Z also might have turned the FO's phone on -(after already having dealt with him)- whilst passing back across the peninsula to either:

A) Make it look like the FO was alive?

or,

B) Go through the private content on the FO's phone, such as messages, pics, etc.?

A is a possibility. Much more likely is that Fariq was the only crew member able to access the o2 in time, thus remaining alive for some duration post IGARI. Who knows? What I don't believe, however, is that this story was planted by Malaysia (as some on other websites have suggested).

Why b? Although Mr. Hamid had a close affiliation with UMNO and BN through his father, I doubt Zaharie would have been much interested in anything about Fariq. He was just collateral damage, a pesky nuisance.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 198):
Go through the private content on the FO's phone, such as messages, pics, etc.?

That's the first really new, fresh idea I've heard in weeks.

It almost sounds more probable than Faiq trying to make a call.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:38 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 190):
A.net doesn't supply "facts" it supplies analysis and it uses "facts" and information from many sources.

Of course. I just was asking what the progress is that we have made on a.net beyond what has already been revealed in the investigation?

Quoting tailskid (Reply 190):
I don't know what you mean by "various agencies" but I suspect that the sources for what has been discussed here come from a wider venue of sources than your "various agencies".

I'm not sure why you are being snarky? "Various agencies" is just a generic way of saying "people associated with the investigation"?

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 192):
Volunteers in Tasmania say wreckage would have washed up from that area by now

Perhaps, but the operative word here is "volunteers". I'm not writing their comments off at all, but I'm taking it with a volunteer grain of salt.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:57 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 201):
I'm not sure why you are being snarky? "Various agencies" is just a generic way of saying "people associated with the investigation"?
I wasn't trying to be snarky, but please understand that i don't think there has been an investigation. It's hard for me to answer a question that I see as based on a false premise.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 201):
I just was asking what the progress is that we have made on a.net beyond what has already been revealed in the investigation?

If we confine this to a.net we have come a long way (IMO) from last March when Pihero dominated the forum in an extremely rude and bullying manner. We have come a long way from the time I arrived here last June when anyone saying that the evidence pointed to the Captain was subject to an immediate flame war and driven off the forum. I was very circumspect at first, because I had to be. It has come a long way on the recognition of the Inmarsat data; this forum has always lagged behind a couple of other forums in developing and explaining that topic, (no mathematicians here I guess.) It has been hindered by a few people who refused to give in and accept the data because of what seemed to me to be an agenda to prevent the discussion here from moving forward. When all else failed the Inmarsat findings were questioned because "they might have been spoofed", that strawman has only died off in the last month or two, so that's huge progress. It's a new day here with that behind us.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:04 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 199):
I doubt Zaharie would have been much interested in anything about Fariq.

He might have been interested in the last hour or two's phone calls. If he saw one to MAS Hq that might have put him in a bind.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:19 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 202):
I wasn't trying to be snarky, but please understand that i don't think there has been an investigation.

Well, I guess there's nothing to add then. If we are going to write off the investigation to date as a sham, then we pretty much are left with "Who can shout the loudest?" IMHO. Anything anyone presents will have to pass the litmus test of whether they accept or reject the investigation and it's findings to date. If they accept it, then they will be written off as close-minded, having an agenda, etc. If they reject it, then they can choose to select whatever findings match their beliefs.

I feel kinda bad for the people who are having to fight that battle here. But I don't need to be one of them.

Ciao.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 77

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 198):
Well, I guess there's nothing to add then. If we are going to write off the investigation to date as a sham, then we pretty much are left with "Who can shout the loudest?"

Why wouldn't we use the parts of any reports that are 99.9% certain to be uncorrupted, such as the Comm logs and see whose argument makes the most sense?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos