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b777900
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Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:52 am

I think Toronto and Calgary would be perfect fit for B6 any one else have any ideas? B6 could do MCO-YYZ NS and JFK-YYC on 321's I bet they be full to with B6 low fares. AC is always higher.
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STT757
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:28 am

Operating to Canada is hard because of the high costs at Canadian airports. That's why so many American LCC's are positioned at airports near the Canadian border, BUF, Niagra Falls, Burlington, Plattsburgh etc.. to capture Canadians looking for low fares. B6 is probably already capturing a good amount via Burlington. *IF* B6 were to go to Canada I think they would concentrate on seasonal destinations popular with NY's and BOS travelers. Places like Halifax, St.Johns, Montreal, Quebec City.
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MVAair
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:51 am

Quoting b777900 (Thread starter):

There are no low transborder fares. And good luck competing with Air Transat to sun destinations. You have to offer the entire package not just airfare. Plus the point of sale is heavily Canada. So that favors Canadian carriers.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:05 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 2):
And good luck competing with Air Transat to sun destinations.

Not to forget Sunwing, CanJet, WestJet and the newcomer Rouge. TS is now having a hard time.

http://montrealgazette.com/business/...t-a-cloudy-outlook?__lsa=73d8-a9c6
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Operating to Canada is hard because of the high costs at Canadian airports.

A bit off topic, but isn't this one of the reasons why AC find it hard to compete on the US & Mexico to Europe & Asia market?
 
mia
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 2):
There are no low transborder fares.

Its so remarkable to me that this is so true. The only "low" fares, aren't really low and are provided exclusively by PD.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 4):
A bit off topic, but isn't this one of the reasons why AC find it hard to compete on the US & Mexico to Europe & Asia market?

I think AC competes quite well. They make very good use of the "revenue management". They understand that Canada bound passengers are willing to tolerate higher fares. There is no other reason why I was able to do LGA-YYZ-MUC for only 1/3 more than it would have cost me to do LGA-YYZ on the same dates.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Operating to Canada is hard because of the high costs at Canadian airports.

YYZ is expensive, yes, but that is not the sole reason why US LCCs aren't flying to Canada. It also has to do with all the surcharges and security fees levied by the US government on transborder flights, that make it unattractive. It has nothing to do with Canada.

Did a dummy booking from YUL to BOS return on AC. This is what I am talking about....


U.S.A Transportation Tax 46.20
U.S Agriculture Fee 6.53
U.S Passenger Facility Charge 5.87
U.S.A Immigration User Fee 9.14
September 11 Security Fee 7.31
U.S. Federal Customs Fee. 7.18

By contrast, the Canadian government only has one fee, the ATSC, air traveller security charge, which is 12.10$
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
ytz
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:13 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
By contrast, the Canadian government only has one fee, the ATSC, air traveller security charge, which is 12.10$

No Nav Can fees or AIFs?
 
chrisp390
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:25 pm

I don't understand why they don't. Considering how many countries B6 serves and considering how close the one country they don't serve is to their main hub it makes no sense. Yes, fees are higher in Canada but it's not like only they are subjected to it. Any carrier in Canada is subjected to higher fees so everyone is on a level playing field. I would love to see service to YYZ, YYC, YVR, YUL
 
nyc2theworld
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:05 pm

The argument about higher fees the US government charges doesn't make any sense since all international arriving flights into the US (including those at airports with Pre Clearance facilities) are subject to the charge; something JetBlue and its customers are familiar with due to all their Caribbean flying.
Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
 
ytz
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 9):
I would love to see service to YYZ, YYC, YVR, YUL

Absolutely. And I think there'd be a market for a cheaper one-stop fare to some of B6's destinations.

I've got my bachelor party coming up. AC gets a pretty penny for YYZ-MSY. I would have gladly flown a B6 one-stop for the same price or cheaper. Better product too.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 8):
No Nav Can fees or AIFs?

I'm talking exclusively about government fees. NavCan is a private company and is providing a service for which it is charging money, same way the FAA is charging money for the service it provides  

BTW, NavCan fees have been stagnant for 15 years now, having gone up only 5 % in that time, and are amongst the lowest in the industry.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 10):
The argument about higher fees the US government charges doesn't make any sense since all international arriving flights into the US (including those at airports with Pre Clearance facilities) are subject to the charge; something JetBlue and its customers are familiar with due to all their Caribbean flying.

Maybe that's why YUL-BOS/JFK/EWR return are often more expensive than YUL-Europe, because they are all international flights !

The U.S fees are ridiculous and have until now prevented US LCC's from establishing their network in Canada. That is a fact ! No two ways about it. Now i concede that some of our Canadian airports, be it through their AIF to passengers or through their outrageous airline fees, don't help the cause, but that hasn't stopped European and Asian carriers from launching flights to Canada. US LCC's, however, seem to hold back...

Either way, I think sooner or later, both B6 and WN will show up in Canada. It will simply be funny to see an LCC charging 400$ for a 1 hr run to MDW or BOS!

[Edited 2015-03-16 08:58:26]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
NYC-air
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:17 pm

Pipe-dream - Porter getting JFK slots and code-sharing on B6 via JFK T5i.
 
NYC-air
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:19 pm

One more note - NYC is really poorly served when it comes to YVR and YYC. I'd like to see more nonstops. I guess the demand isn't there but a boy can dream.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting b777900 (Thread starter):
B6 could do MCO-YYZ NS and JFK-YYC on 321's I bet they be full to with B6 low fares. AC is always higher.

B6 might have trouble competing with Rouge, Westjet, Sunwing, Transat et al on any YYZ-Florida routes given the lower C$, and tighter seating (i.e. lower CASM) on the Canadian carriers.

I think the most logical B6 route to Canada is JFK-YYZ to capture both O/D traffic and some connecting traffic to markets that B6 serves nonstop from JFK for which there are no nonstops from YYZ (for example, SDQ and weekday SJU).

B6 is reasonably well-known in the Canadian market (at least in Toronto) already and I think they could carve out a profitable YYZ presence with 2-3 daily E190 service to JFK.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting NYC-air (Reply 16):

YVR is quite good served with even 1 new carrier (Philipeen air)
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:21 pm

Note to B6 Network Planning: SAN-YVR is available...

  

bb
 
lychemsa
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:17 am

Fares to Canada are too high. I don't know anyone who flys to Montreal or Toronto.

And the trains are too slow. So are the busses.

But the Canadian dollar is now low.
 
tmoney
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:31 am

Just moved to Tronno and really missing my WN and B6!!

B6 gets ATR72s and starts JFK service to YTZ.
WN, not to be outdone, gets Q400LR-HGW-ETOPS and launches 2-3 daily nonstop YTZ-HOU/SAN. Cause us Texicans need some poutine lovin. (takes a long puff, coughs, passes)

[Edited 2015-03-16 23:33:32]
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jalarner
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting tmoney (Reply 21):
Just moved to Tronno

You seem to be fitting in well and picked up the lingo well enough!

Same as others have said....I was looking at a March break trip, and one to Europe was only a few hundred dollars more expensive.
Support air cadets!
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting jalarner (Reply 22):
You seem to be fitting in well and picked up the lingo well enough!

Was about to say the same thing.  
Quoting tmoney (Reply 21):
Just moved to Tronno

All that is missing is for you to be able to say "ey" and 'aboot", and you should be good to get your Canadian citizenship ! (if you dont have it already)

[Edited 2015-03-17 12:30:40]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Noise
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting tmoney (Reply 21):
Just moved to Tronno and really missing my WN and B6!!

Don't you mean Trawna?  
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 14):
B6 is reasonably well-known in the Canadian market (at least in Toronto) already and I think they could carve out a profitable YYZ presence with 2-3 daily E190 service to JFK

100% agree with this. Nobody has the caribbean like B6 does so could work. Most of NYC- Toronto traffic is out of LGA but B6 might people sway some people if the pricing is right their product speaks for itself.
 
ytz
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 22):
Most of NYC- Toronto traffic is out of LGA but B6 might people sway some people if the pricing is right their product speaks for itself.

If B6 ever did YYZ, I'd imagine they would do BOS and JFK to serve both o/d and to feed their network. I honestly wish they would. I love B6's product. Would fly them anywhere I could.

And if for some reason, they pick up CS100s to replace some E190s, they might ostensibly be able to serve YTZ! Now that would be something!
 
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varsity
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:15 pm

Would be nice. When I went to Manitoba we had to fly LGA-MSP-GFK and drive in because the fares to YWG were insane. Not saying there is a market for NYC-YWG nonstop but I agree that service to YYZ or YUL might work, having the added plus (to me) that it didn't originate at LGA.
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opethfan
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting NYC-air (Reply 13):

One more note - NYC is really poorly served when it comes to YVR

See below:

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 15):
YVR is quite good served with even 1 new carrier (Philipeen air)

AC daily to EWR, CX daily to JFK, and now PR a few times a week to JFK. There's also DL's seasonal JFK service.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
Note to B6 Network Planning: SAN-YVR is available...

Don't be silly, why should anyone start that route?

:P
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:40 am

Quoting mia (Reply 5):
I think AC competes quite well. They make very good use of the "revenue management". They understand that Canada bound passengers are willing to tolerate higher fares. There is no other reason why I was able to do LGA-YYZ-MUC for only 1/3 more than it would have cost me to do LGA-YYZ on the same dates.

I've occasionally found good fares with AC to Europe too, but I'm talking about volume here, they're a small player on the US/Mexico to Europe/Asia market.


Quoting opethfan (Reply 25):
Don't be silly, why should anyone start that route?

He knows there's no chance of B6 flying the route, hence the   , but SAN-YVR is probably the largest city pair in North America without a non-stop service.
 
opethfan
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 26):
He knows there's no chance of B6 flying the route, hence the   , but SAN-YVR is probably the largest city pair in North America without a non-stop service.

Hence my :P
 
drgmobile
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:28 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
It also has to do with all the surcharges and security fees levied by the US government on transborder flights, that make it unattractive. It has nothing to do with Canada....
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
I'm talking exclusively about government fees. NavCan is a private company and is providing a service for which it is charging money, same way the FAA is charging money for the service it provides

This is only part of the story -- that which you can see broken out in the price of a ticket. Airport rent is a federal tax on airports to the tune of about $300 million a year for which there is no equivalent in the U.S. The Ontario government last year raised the fuel charge to what about $150 million a year, if I recall correctly.

Nav Canada and Airport Improvement Fees are not taxes, as neither nav or airports are government, however, this is still a structural cost differential due to Canadian government policy that passengers cover 100% of user costs -- a policy that in modern practice sees passengers covering far more than 100% for the services they receive. So nav charges are higher than U.S. and Canadian airports receive essentially no funds for infrastructure (rent covers about nine times the $38 million in infrastructure funds for certain small airports). There are valid public policy aims for this approach, perhaps, but it has a cost to consumers.

There's give and take on both sides of the border but a Conference Board report a couple of years ago found that there is a significant price differential between Canada and the U.S. and that 40% of it was due to Canadian government.policies.
 
ytz
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 28):
Airport rent is a federal tax on airports to the tune of about $300 million a year for which there is no equivalent in the U.S.

Exactly. And with nearly half of that paid for by YYZ, it amounts to about $3.8 per passenger at that airport. Ridiculous. It's something I've long complained about.

This is why I hope YTZ develops. At least fees are lower there...and mostly going towards airport development.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:59 am

Quoting NYC-air (Reply 12):

Porter already has some code share flight with B6 to BOS and beyond from YTZ.
 
Thomaas
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:01 am

B6 will have to expand to Canada if they are serious about being Boston's business airline. BOS-YUL and BOS-YYZ would be a good start. I can also see them on YYZ-JFK and YHZ-JFK.
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:59 am

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 31):

NYC to Toronto is at saturation point.
 
Thomaas
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RE: Jetblue Will They Go To Canada?

Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:59 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 32):

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 31):

NYC to Toronto is at saturation point.

B6 would have little O&D on JFK-YYZ. those passengers prefer LGA. They would have quite a bit of connecting passengers to Florida though. This is why I see BOS-YYZ happening before JFK-YYZ.

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