Well, I've got a quite mixed impression on DL. Recently had 6 flights on them (FRA-DTW-ATL-BSB-ATL-JFK-FRA).

FRA-DTW: B764, quite ok, littled outdated PTVs, but at least clean and ok legroom.

DTW-ATL: A320, dirty as hell (never seen something like that in Europe or elsewhere!) but comfortable seats and the best legroom on all DL flights on this trip.

ATL-BSB: B76W, very new cabin, new PTV system (although a very strange movie selection), but legroom was a little insufficient.

BSB-ATL: B76W, same as above

ATL-JFK: B75W, almost the same as the A320, just a little cleaner

JFK-FRA: B76W, well: I'm glad I survived this flight. I'm only 1.80m but the legroom was that bad I almost couldn't fit into the seat! Sleeping was not possible at all. Very bad performance and I really have to think about choosing DL again for transatlantic flights...


The impression I got as a first time DL customer was that they simply don't care about their domestic equipment. How can a US legacy carrier offer their customers an aircraft that literally has chewing gum all over the seat back in front and simply dirt everywhere? Also the new cabin on the 76W from JFK to FRA was simply horrible.

Quoting goboeing (Reply 183): I am a bit flabbergasted as to why anyone would give a _ if the seatbelts are crossed. If a quick turn is happening, it's not ideal to add on another few minutes and have employees, from whatever department, cross 160-250 seatbelts is it? What's the first thing someone has to do before they sit their butt down on the chair? Uncross it! I must be missing something.

Exactly. If the poster is a commuter, I would think that there isn't an expectation of superfluous white-glove service. It's all about speed and volume in the commuter space.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 171): It's one thing to have a mixed fleet of Airbus and Boeing widebodies, because of mergers, or to be phasing out one manufacturer for the other, but QR is buying widebodies from both companies. Clearly, QR doesn't have to concern itself with efficiencies in training, maintenance, and staffing the way airlines ranging from AA to LH do.

Better not tell real life AA or LH that, since both have and continue to purchase even more diverse WB fleets...

Quoting mayor (Reply 175): Interesting how you've spun that argument around. When I'm speaking of "reliability" I'm talking of mechanical reliability, on time, completion factor, delays, etc. "Reliability" in service still comes within the service you are getting on board. I guess the difference is in how you and I use the term.

No spin, I was pretty clear the first time around. Interestingly enough, your planes do typically fly with more MELs & CDLs than is considered average in my industry. While this doesn't make you more dangerous per se (since it is legal), it's certainly not a good thing where technical reliablility is concerned.

Quoting mayor (Reply 175): Of course you COULD lump it all within service

I sure did, didn't I?

Quoting mayor (Reply 178): Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 155): I don't care if you're making it up, or if you're sincere as hell. It's absolutely not true that a DL 77L is preferable (any class vs any class) to anything you'd find on QF. Hence why I do not believe you. As you seem to be fond of saying, that's all a matter of perception by the customer, isn't it?

It's the same both ways in this case. QF really do have a much better product. And people really do think so, so yeah, I suppose you can look at it either way.

In any case, you are quite right, Customer Perception is king.

Quoting pjc747 (Reply 179): Fictitious allegations?

Yes. Officially I reserve judgement, but if they had something real, they'd have shown it by now. Instead, they repeat the "subsidies" chant quite a lot, hoping it will stick in people's minds. Advertising works very well that way.

Quoting pjc747 (Reply 179): It is convenient that an airline, government owned, in an oil rich country can have + on order 329 777s and 140 of the largest most expensive plane in the world with no subsidies.

As mentioned, it's a fairly unique combination of demographics & geography. When you have 70% of the world's population w/in 10 flying hours or less, a long haul hub is not that hard to exploit. Don't forget, FlyDubai does as well as EK, yet no one seems to want to tar and feather them.

Quoting goboeing (Reply 183): I am a bit flabbergasted as to why anyone would give a _ if the seatbelts are crossed. If a quick turn is happening, it's not ideal to add on another few minutes and have employees, from whatever department, cross 160-250 seatbelts is it?

Me too. Especially if it costs me a tight connection.

Quoting goboeing (Reply 183): What's the first thing someone has to do before they sit their butt down on the chair? Uncross it! I must be missing something.

The only issue I've ever had with seatbelts not being crossed is when a seat mate boards long before me, and uses a belt half belonging to my seat. But even that is a miniscule issue, and hardly worth stopping the music over, so to speak.

Quoting mayor (Reply 187): Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 185): To add to their expenses, it's very common for airline crews to be based away from where they live, which means they have to incur the expense of paying for two living places. A lifestyle choice.......they don't have to live AWAY from where they are based.

Interesting how you feel the exact opposite when it comes to employee's "right" to commute as non-revs become an issue...

Quoting zkojq (Reply 192): But do pax know (or even care) about how much money the airline makes? They care about comfort, service and, importantly, how much the ticket cost. Is the airline's profitability one of the factors that influences their purchase?

Indeed. In fact, if it's a particularly awful affair, the last thing I want to hear about is how much they're profiting. No one likes being ripped off.

Quoting FlyBigDeltaJets (Reply 198): And, as has been mentioned many times in this thread already, the TOTAL carbon footprint difference between a 20 year old a/c and a brand new a/c is negligible when you consider the amount of resources that went in to creating the new a/c. I don't have any actual facts or numbers, but I would almost say that it takes a larger manufacturing carbon footprint to produce a smaller operating carbon footprint. Is it a wash? Maybe

Maybe. If you're talking about replacing something fairly like, I can sort of see how that works, e.g a 773 vs a new 77W. But if you're going from say, an MD-88 to a CS300, there's no comparison. The mfg process footprint wouldn't come close to offsetting the gains. I think that whole argument is a red-herring though, since it conveniently dodges specifics. Honestly, there are more important considerations when considering whether or not to keep an old frame longer.

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 200): The impression I got as a first time DL customer was that they simply don't care about their domestic equipment. How can a US legacy carrier offer their customers an aircraft that literally has chewing gum all over the seat back in front and simply dirt everywhere? Also the new cabin on the 76W from JFK to FRA was simply horrible.

Then write them a letter and report it. Believe me, DL has always cared about how clean their a/c were and if they don't know about it, how do you expect them to rectify it?

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 202): Interesting how you feel the exact opposite when it comes to employee's "right" to commute as non-revs become an issue...

How do I feel the exact opposite? Commuting is also a lifestyle choice. Remember, non-revving is standby and not ALL are commuters. Some are using their flying benefits to go on vacation, visit families, etc. Paying pax are not inconvenienced by non-revs...........if a non-rev gets a seat, it's because there's no more paying pax to board.

Sorry for the late response but other things wee taking up my time.

Quoting goboeing (Reply 139): Can you be more specific with this "falling apart" ? Show this forum, Bill -- what is falling apart?

Falling apart ........ broken/warn seats, many MX delays over the years resulting from older aircraft, B757s with yellow overhead compartments that have faded from original white, Audio and video systems that do not work, missalligned parts to the interior, broken window shades, reading lights that don't work. The problem is for a $800 domestic fare the plane should work. I understand that MX for flight systems and safety are priority one, but value should be priority two.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 141): A guy stole my car stereo. How is it not a government subsidy? Because it wasn't the government's stereo, it was mine. In commercial debt, why do they pay substantial interest rates? Because there is a risk of default. And that's not a crime nor is it a government phenomenon.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Theft is illegal. Ch11 is LEGAL and permitted only by US law. The government allows companies to not pay their bills, but somebody has to pay the bills. So the law allows the burden of payment to be passed on to consumers and to other organizations.
So when DL, UA, AA declare CH-11 and doesn't pay its bills aren't the other airlines who do actually payi their bills. Would this be revenue diversion and a Government sanctioned subsidy from other airlines? TALK ABOUT UNFAIR COMPETITION?
So Delta doesn't pay its fuel bills, the foreign carriers have that added to theirs, how about landing fees, Aircraft costs walked away from. Boeing and Airbus have to price CH-11 defaults into their pricing.
With only US carriers being able to file for CH11 it is nothing more than a government subsidy where the competion pays the bills for the airline filing for the UMPTEENTH time like DL or UA or US??

Quoting mayor (Reply 159): Quoting billreid (Reply 135): BTW I am a Delta MM and I agree that DL has crap planes. Regardless the fact that you're a customer, this statement is crap.

Why is my statement crap. Do I not have the right to suggest that there should be a VALUE PROPOSITION?

Quoting billreid (Reply 204): permitted only by US law.

isn't the Japanese bankruptcy law basically a translation into Japanese? And there are not too many countries that don't have regulations for that...

Best regards
Thomas

Quoting billreid (Reply 204): So when DL, UA, AA declare CH-11 and doesn't pay its bills aren't the other airlines who do actually payi their bills. Would this be revenue diversion and a Government sanctioned subsidy from other airlines? TALK ABOUT UNFAIR COMPETITION?

It would actually be their creditors that are forced to eat that cost, and just because you file Chapter 11 doesn't mean you get out of paying all of your bills.

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 206): It would actually be their creditors that are forced to eat that cost, and just because you file Chapter 11 doesn't mean you get out of paying all of your bills.

Not all, but Billions have been torn up. Billions more on 50 cents on the dollar! Dont you think those costs are passed on. If that wasn't the case Boeing and Airbus would both be gone?
Airports adjust their costs on residual operating agreements.

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 205): isn't the Japanese bankruptcy law basically a translation into Japanese? And there are not too many countries that don't have regulations for that...

Yes most countries require the companies to dissolve at the second filing. Between US,AA, DL, CO, NW, UA, PA etc i think we have over 100 filings!

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 21): I wonder why is Parker of AA is so quiet..

Perhaps its because Qatar is in OneWorld?

Quoting billreid (Reply 204): the airline filing for the UMPTEENTH time like DL or UA or US??

Quoting billreid (Reply 207): Between US,AA, DL, CO, NW, UA, PA etc i think we have over 100 filings!

Lets set the record straight.......DL has filed for bankruptcy ONCE in 85 years. It's not like it's a yearly event as you seem to imply.

Quoting billreid (Reply 204): Why is my statement crap. Do I not have the right to suggest that there should be a VALUE PROPOSITION?

You stated, yourself, that you haven't flown on DL since they started the refurbishment program.

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Qatar Boss Accuses DL Of "Flying Crap Planes" - P2 (by American 767 Mar 19 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Ben Soriano