Fly Mojo (Malaysia) Orders C-Series

LAXintl · Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:43 am

BBD says Malaysian upstart Fly Mojo (sounds like a joke) has signed for 20 + 20 options on the CS100 aircraft.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media-c...entforupto40bom.bombardiercom.html

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Suppose an order is an order, but BBD sure seems to be creating a list of third rate clients for the model.

As Udvar-Hazy has said last week at ISTAT, the only way BBD will build credibility for the model is by attracting big orders from marquee customers, not selling them to random small airlines.

ssteve · Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:55 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

As Udvar-Hazy has said last week at ISTAT, the only way BBD will build credibility for the model is by attracting big orders from marquee customers, not selling them to random small airlines.

Said by someone who wants pricing that would mean a loss on each frame about other customers who would want a loss on each frame...

And yet, not wrong. Damned if they don't.

IndianicWorld · Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:07 am

Getting customers is important, no matter what the perceived level of the aviation hierarchy an airlne sits.

The risk of start-up carriers is certainly there, given the lack of success that has been achieved over the years by such airlines, but trying to talk down such orders is also flawed.

I'm sure they would love a "big" carrier to sign up, but given the complexity of those airlines with current fleet, staffing, political and other operational considerations they deal with, some things take time.

mercure1 · Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:09 am

I think BBD will talk with anyone that has a pulse that is willing to sign on the doted line at the moment.

I'm not sure its the best scenario as Hazy is probably right, they need some big and real orders to be foundation of the program not such random obscure orders that may never really even come to fruition.

LAXintl · Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:16 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 1):
Said by someone who wants pricing that would mean a loss on each frame about other customers who would want a loss on each frame...

So they take a loss on each frame. Its quite common practice in all types of industries to sell low to build market share, particularly to get your product in the hands of critical market segment (like several marquee airlines).

Of course BBD has put itself in a corner now with added headaches of cash flow problems, but at some point it needs that hail mary play.

ericm2031 · Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:46 am

They do need a couple more marquee customers.

But you also have to look at how loyal some startup airlines will get to the manufacturers if they give them a break as a startup. Look at how loyal Southwest is to Boeing after selling them their first plane over 40 years ago. You never know how big that startup may become. The 737 was nearly cancelled after the -200 after only US and WN were interested in the -300. Who knows what Boeing would look like today without the success of the 737.

Lots of examples out there of startups that have resulted in hundreds of followup orders as they've grown.

Devilfish · Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:23 am

Seems the CS100 is getting its mojo going...wonder if it would ever come to these shores. Tiger, Zest, 2P, anyone?

r2rho · Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:32 am

This reminds me a bit of the SSJ signing up random 3rd tier carriers. Some folded before taking the aircraft, some took just one or 2 frames, some never finished paying for theirs... at the end of the day, not sure if it was worth the trouble.

JoeCanuck · Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:43 am

I don't know what the big deal is about selling to second tier airlines. Airbus and Boeing have no problems selling to any company that asks. They have sold hundreds of aircraft to SE Asian airlines, some of them very young airlines.

I realise there is a difference in that the big two have tons of legacy carriers that are in no danger of folding, to buffer the blows of someone cancelling an order.

Sales are sales...hopefully BBD can crank out the planes before those upstarts fold.

diverted · Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:28 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 8):
I don't know what the big deal is about selling to second tier airlines. Airbus and Boeing have no problems selling to any company that asks. They have sold hundreds of aircraft to SE Asian airlines, some of them very young airlines.

I realise there is a difference in that the big two have tons of legacy carriers that are in no danger of folding, to buffer the blows of someone cancelling an order.

Sales are sales...hopefully BBD can crank out the planes before those upstarts fold.

If I remember correctly, when B6 was still in start up phase, Neeleman went to Boeing looking for some 737's and the story goes that Boeing wasn't all that interested in giving them much of a deal, being that they weren't an established name and Boeing had just made some big deals with WN and others. Airbus swooped in, made them a nice offer, and voila, B6 started up with 320's.

In hindsight, I'm sure Boeing would love to have that deal back on the table seeing as B6 now has something like 140+A32X's.

Moral of the story, a customer is a customer, and it's not like Bombardier can afford to show anyone the door at this point. And if Bombardier is as confident in this plane as they seem to be, they should have no problem filling any cancelled delivery positions once the aircraft is in service.

BlueSky1976 · Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:42 am

Real winners will be all those leasing companies who ordered CS300, if rumors about fuel burn beating guarantees by a wide margin are confirmed.

bahadir · Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:45 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 9):
If I remember correctly, when B6 was still in start up phase, Neeleman went to Boeing looking for some 737's and the story goes that Boeing wasn't all that interested in giving them much of a deal, being that they weren't an established name and Boeing had just made some big deals with WN and others. Airbus swooped in, made them a nice offer, and voila, B6 started up with 320's.

The same thing is valid for Frontier. They went to Boeing, the big B wasn't really all interested and Airbus was more than happy to work with them.

If I was BBD, I'd drop the list price on these birds and make money off of service contracts and parts. They need the market share to get their foot in the door. If the product is good, then they will get the black ink point eventually.

queb · Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:23 pm

I'm really looking forward to read Planemaker's pep talk about this order

KFlyer · Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:23 pm

Fully agreed with Udvar Hazy's views and LAXIntl re capturing market share. But hey, that's at least a nice livery! Anyone got more info about this carrier and its ownership?

BlueSky1976 · Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 12):
I'm really looking forward to read Planemaker's pep talk about this order

Yeah. Me too.

INFINITI329 · Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):

Real winners will be all those leasing companies who ordered CS300, if rumors about fuel burn beating guarantees by a wide margin are confirmed

the one thing BBD had to do is meet fuel burn expectations, and according to BBD the have hit and/or exceeded them. They will be fine. Keep in mind the C-series has more than 600 orders and commitments. Once they release the fuel numbers they'll have a lot visitors to their booth in Le Bourget.

planemaker · Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 12):
I'm really looking forward to read Planemaker's pep talk about this order

This order is awesome. It is fantastic that BBD was able to land a LOI from a South East Asian start-up airline that no one has heard of, particularly after having been previously turned down by Lion Air... and especially after the Tony Fernandes tease about AirAsia ordering 100 CS300 during Farnborough 2012 (I wonder what Tony Ferrnandes ended up doing with the AirAsia CSeries model that BBD gave him during the press conference?)

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Hopefully, with orders like this, and by continuing to push back the EIS date, BBD will be able to reach their promise of 300 "firm" orders before EIS.

Quantos · Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:08 pm

Uh. I didn't expect that at all.

CXH · Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 13):
Anyone got more info about this carrier and its ownership?

I'm speculating from the press release in the first post that this airline will be a government creation. Quote:

The announcement was made in parallel with the Government of Malaysia’s announcement at LIMA on a new airline, flymojo, which will be based out of Johor Bahru, Johor and Kota Kinabalu, Sabah.

Which might be good since national governments have deep pockets and are usually more willing to 'stay the course' then some start-up businesses.

KarelXWB · Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 16):
This order is awesome. It is fantastic that BBD was able to land a LOI from a South East Asian start-up airline that no one has heard of ...

+1 for the sarcasm

TreeHillRavens · Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 13):

Anyone got more info about this carrier and its ownership?

Flymojo is headed by Gopala Krishnan, who is the brother of the second richest man in Malaysia Ananda Krishnan.

Quoting CXH (Reply 18):

I'm speculating from the press release in the first post that this airline will be a government creation.

Probably not.

YLWbased · Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:43 am

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 20):
Flymojo is headed by Gopala Krishnan, who is the brother of the second richest man in Malaysia Ananda Krishnan.

Fastest way to become a millionaire:

1) Become a billionaire.
2) Start an Airlines.

YLWbased

YVRLTN · Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:48 am

Everyone said the same about Lion Air and IndiGo. Jury is maybe still out if the huge orders will be totally fulfilled, but so far so good...

But yes, they need some blue chip orders and Im pretty sure they are out there.

CXH · Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:24 am

@TreeHillRavens: ahh, you're correct, I'm wrong. It will be a private venture.

deltadawg · Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:05 pm

Fantastic news. Pretty good livery as well. Best of luck to Mojo and great catch for BBD. One would think that most startups would go with a proven model for assurance of reliability and such but they chose BBD. Speaks well of BBD in my opinion. I am sure they got a good deal as well.

ssteve · Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:31 pm

Discussions about how this carrier isn't staid enough aside, it's interesting that they want the CS100. It is a win for that airframe versus the competition. (Which is the E195?? I dunno)

Devilfish · Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 24):
Pretty good livery as well. Best of luck to Mojo and great catch for BBD.

The name and livery match...

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Quoting deltadawg (Reply 24):
One would think that most startups would go with a proven model for assurance of reliability and such but they chose BBD.

The aircraft choice is very apt too...

CRJ900 · Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:51 am

I assume many airports they plan to serve have shorter runways, and the CS100 is supposed to be good for smaller airports and short runways and still be able to fly long stretches. Hope this order comes to fruition, nice to see some colour on an aircraft too.

Fly Mojo (Malaysia) Orders C-Series

Fly Mojo (Malaysia) Orders C-Series

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