Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
aa777lvr
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:42 am

DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:04 am

Interesting article about the DL SEA hub. Let the D vs A debate continue....

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...or-seattle.html?ana=yahoo&page=all

AAL777LVR

[Edited 2015-03-17 18:06:17]
 
Noise
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:24 am

DL SEA Hub Making Progress in terms of what, drawing the Starbucks, Microsoft and Amazon business traveler flying internationally? Definitely. But making progress is attracting those business travelers on domestic flights? That's still somewhat debatable as AS's network out of SEA continues to grow at a healthy pace.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:25 am

DL can put whoever they want on a SEA connection. They don't have to have any intentions of every visiting Seattle. Therefor they can both grow if they do it right.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:30 am

Quoting Noise (Reply 1):
DL SEA Hub Making Progress in terms of what, drawing the Starbucks, Microsoft and Amazon business traveler flying internationally? Definitely. But making progress is attracting those business travelers on domestic flights? That's still somewhat debatable as AS's network out of SEA continues to grow at a healthy pace.

I don't necessarily disagree that Alaska continues to dominate SEA domestic O&D, and retains an enviable position among corporate clients in the Pacific Northwest - at least for domestic travel. (Alaska, does, after all, offer a nonstop domestic network for SEA travelers that remains immensely larger than Delta's.) Nonetheless, I also don't necessarily disagree that, in the long-run, Delta may well be able to cross-subsidize between its large SEA longhaul offering and its growing SEA domestic network and use the combined strength of the two to leverage growth among corporate accounts in the SEA market.

To me, this continues to raise the prospect that - at some point in the future - it could theoretically make sense for Alaska to potentially join one of the global alliances and even integrate itself into one or multiple of said alliances' international JVs, thus allowing Alaska to jointly schedule, price and sell both a domestic and a longhaul network to local customers. It's not a perfect solution to the competitive threat from Delta, but it could help - and I don't think it's completely unthinkable a few years down the road.
 
Noise
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:43 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
To me, this continues to raise the prospect that - at some point in the future - it could theoretically make sense for Alaska to potentially join one of the global alliances and even integrate itself into one or multiple of said alliances' international JVs, thus allowing Alaska to jointly schedule, price and sell both a domestic and a longhaul network to local customers. It's not a perfect solution to the competitive threat from Delta, but it could help - and I don't think it's completely unthinkable a few years down the road.

On the other hand, AS can order wide body aircraft and operate their own flights to Asia and Europe from SEA (and PDX and SAN and ANC).
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:47 am

Quoting Noise (Reply 4):
On the other hand, AS can order wide body aircraft and operate their own flights to Asia and Europe from SEA (and PDX and SAN and ANC).

I don't think that would be realistically feasible - as excellent an airline as Alaska is, I don't think it has the network or global brand heft to manage organic growth in longhaul markets up against a competitor (Delta) that has a sprawling domestic and global route system to leverage in support of its SEA gateway.

Personally, I think the better strategy for Alaska - if it determined that having some form of more meaningful longhaul presence from SEA had become more critical - would be to more closely integrate with one or multiple of the non-Delta longhaul carriers operating there. And honestly, this wouldn't even be all that much of a leap - Alaska already has some form of marketing relationship, whether FF and/or codesharing, with several of these airlines already.
 
Prost
Posts: 2601
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:50 am

The quickest way for Alaska to erode their margins would be to introduce international widebody service. You'd see a lot of their codeshare partners cease their cooperation with them if they were directly competing. Alaska has become the master of the domestic to international codeshare game. I see JetBlue and WestJet as students of this business plan, and it's a very successful one. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Alaska has the third highest margins in the US after Spirit and Allegiant, and their margins have grown since delta has started building up Seattle.

What Alaska is doing is working very well for them, and to alter that course would prove foolhardy in my opinion.
 
dia77
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 3:49 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:56 am

Poorly written article - particularly: "Currently Alaska does code share out of Sea-Tac with Emirates and Korean Airlines, but those are only to Dubai and Korea, respectively. American does currently operate international flights out of Seattle. If Alaska can't entice another U.S. airline to start flying from Seattle to many international destinations, and then partner with that airline to code share, Alaska is at risk of losing global travelers, he said."

AS has many other partners, so it's not like DL has the upper hand.

I'm a Seattle based employee at Amazon who flies roughly 6 times a year internationally (mostly to India). Amazon has a preferred set of Airlines (AS and DL are both among those), but given the quality of DL's frequent flyer program vs. AS, most employees fly AS as much as possible. I have flown DL/AF to India but I usually fly BA now - particularly since I get full bonus AS miles on AA/BA. I don't see DL winning the business market if they can't improve their FF program. There is a lot of loyalty in Seattle for AS.

[Edited 2015-03-17 18:58:25]
 
Sightseer
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:15 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):

  

I would expect AS to be much more receptive to the idea of a JL than going long-haul. However, would they be allowed to join a JV with another US airline (say AA-JL)? I was under the impression that the powers that be frown upon domestic airlines coordinating schedules.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13579
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
t could theoretically make sense for Alaska to potentially join one of the global alliances and even integrate itself into one or multiple of said alliances' international JVs

They don't need to join an alliance for that... they could independently JV with JL/KE/BA/etc tomorrow, if they wanted to. Those are all airlines from open-skies countries, and I doubt the FAA/DOJ would have the slightest problem with it.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting dia77 (Reply 7):
American does currently operate international flights out of Seattle.

Which ones? If my recollection is correct, at some point American used to fly to Japan but i think they discontinued it a long time back.
 
dia77
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2000 3:49 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 10):
Which ones? If my recollection is correct, at some point American used to fly to Japan but i think they discontinued it a long time back.

It is an error in the article. AA doesn't fly internationally out of SEA.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5784
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:55 am

One word AS, oneworld.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting Noise (Reply 1):
That's still somewhat debatable as AS's network out of SEA continues to grow at a healthy pace.

I'm not sure that's the best way to gauge DL's success or failure in SEA. It is possible they are both making gains. Don't see both of them growing like they are forever (something will have to give) but this early in the game, DL and AS may both have a bit of room for growth

Quoting Noise (Reply 4):
On the other hand, AS can order wide body aircraft and operate their own flights to Asia and Europe from SEA (and PDX and SAN and ANC).

I think it would be easier for them to partner more heavily with AA and have a combined AA/AS take on DL. AA/AS would start off weaker internationally but they'd lead domestically. I think that's the best way to combat DL, and I don't think AS has to join oneworld or merge with AA (sorry for using the dirty "M" word in an AS thread)
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6414
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:55 am

Quoting dia77 (Reply 11):
Quoting 747megatop (Reply 10):
Which ones? If my recollection is correct, at some point American used to fly to Japan but i think they discontinued it a long time back.

It is an error in the article. AA doesn't fly internationally out of SEA.

The article said AA does not fly internationally out of SEA. SEA-NRT was discontinued around 12/2001 or 1/2002. I forget the exact date.

AS needs to start code sharing and partnering with HU in both SEA and SJC. If CX comes to SEA that would be good too.

It was poorly written. The author apparently didn't grasp that KE and EK have connections to almost anywhere.
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:49 pm

AS does not need to try to start its own international service. That would be a great way to make cash go poof.

AS does need to continue its strategy of partnering with a very broad, multi-alliance array of airlines that don't directly compete with AS in most markets to expand its reach.

And toward that end, AS needs to extricate itself from the remainder of the relationship with DL, which has become a direct and very hostile competitor, and start a relationship with UA. UA used to be AS's major competition in Seattle, but has basically abandoned the market.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
It was poorly written. The author apparently didn't grasp that KE and EK have connections to almost anywhere.

  

Not to mention, DL competes against a lot of other international carriers out of SEA: BA, LH, HU, OZ, NH and BR
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 15):
And toward that end, AS needs to extricate itself from the remainder of the relationship with DL, which has become a direct and very hostile competitor, and start a relationship with UA. UA used to be AS's major competition in Seattle, but has basically abandoned the market.

I would agree with you on that.

Was on a DL flight the other day PHX - SEA only 38 people on it and I made it on as a non-rev, the AS flight I tried to get on was asking for volunteers
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:00 pm

I was expecting an article with facts or data that suggest DL has an edge or is making inroads against AS. This article almost reads like a DL press release touting their service.
 
mikesairways
Posts: 664
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
AS needs to start code sharing and partnering with HU in both SEA and SJC. If CX comes to SEA that would be good too.

Do they have an interline agreement? When I was looking at SJC-PEK, in addition to the new non-stop, it offers a connection on AS via SEA.
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5088
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 17):
Was on a DL flight the other day PHX - SEA only 38 people on it and I made it on as a non-rev, the AS flight I tried to get on was asking for volunteers

That is how all the nonrevs travel in and out of ANC these days  
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 20):
That is how all the nonrevs travel in and out of ANC these days  

I'm surprised that they still have a ZL agreement.
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:35 pm

Quoting CV880 (Reply 21):

I'm surprised that they still have a ZL agreement.

I would presume they still do have an agreement with AS . I use a mgt travelcard of which most airlines have reciprocal agreements to.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:06 pm

Delta will do fine. Let both Alaska and Delta compete.

[Edited 2015-03-18 12:09:34]
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
DL can put whoever they want on a SEA connection. They don't have to have any intentions of every visiting Seattle. Therefor they can both grow if they do it right.

I laugh when I see DL's ads on Root Sports during Seattle Mariners games. They so don't get the NW psyche...no way the natives here are going to give up on the hometown hero, AS. Now, flying internationally is a different story...but you aren't going to have Northwesterners looking at DL only for their domestic flying needs, especially since AS already serves most of those markets.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
User avatar
deltadawg
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:56 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:44 pm

The DL move on SEA is a long term deal. People shouldn't expect it to pay huge dividends immediately and expect to drive AS out of business by next year. Invading another carriers home turf is never taken lightly and DL is plodding along at a steady pace building loyalty and winning over those with an open mind. They are going about this in the smart manner. DL knows AS weakness is the international market and so DL has exploited that. Given time the winner will prevail.

Seems to me though their is room in SEA for two players!
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
mwh787
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:29 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:48 pm

Puget Sound Business Journals seems to be doing daily articles on DL vs AS. Here's another article today about a Seattle investment banker saying the Seattle business community needs to support AS or Delta will take them over. My self I'm still very bullish on AS. I just don't see DL picking up that much SEA traffic. I know they can throw lots of $$$ at the SEA hub, but I believe they will tire of this eventually and just keep major market flights to feed the Asia flights.

Here is link to today's article


http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...seattle-businesses-delta-will.html
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6414
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 26):

Here is link to today's article


http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...seattle-businesses-delta-will.html

The problem is that most of the American public isn't smart enough to understand the long term effects of their decisions. By gosh, if you can save 50 cents at WalMart, who cares if a locally owned small business with far better service and quality goes out of business. That is until the same people are upset because the small business is gone.

Same with AS vs DL. If DL is $20 cheaper, most people will buy that ticket. Then if AS can't survive and DL takes them over, the prices will go up and service go down. But people aren't smart enough to see past that short term $20 savings.

I'm quite sure that if DL takes over AS, a lot of AS's routes will be gone. DL will route traffic through MSP, SLC and ATL. Prices will go up and service will go down. (I personally think AS is the best US domestic airline.) But again, corporate travel offices and the public can mostly only see their short term gain.

A microcosm of this is what happened to the outstanding locally owned independent Marmot outdoor equipment store in Bellevue. Great place. Their product quality was outstanding and their employees were far far more knowledgeable than REI on average. If I'm buying Gore-Tex or a $400 sleeping bag that could save my life in the mountains, it's nice to talk to someone who really knows the products.

Again, the public wasn't smart enough to understand their decisions. Marmot basically became a showroom for Backpackers.com and other budget web sites. But gosh, you can go into Marmot and utilize their expertise, but then go on-line and buy it for $40 cheaper. What a deal, right?

Now Marmot is out of business. I for one greatly miss it.

[Edited 2015-03-18 16:43:30]
 
YYZAMS
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:54 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:08 am

Why does everyone always say one is going to take over another or one will move out?

Why can't it be like ORD with AA and UA? SEA can coexist with AS and DL, right?
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2318
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 25):
Invading another carriers home turf is never taken lightly and DL is plodding along at a steady pace building loyalty and winning over those with an open mind.

Exactly why DL will fail in the end....they're 'invading' the turf of a greatly loved local company.

Northwest people don't have an open mind when it comes to supporting the local guy vs. the 'invader'. There are so many examples of local Pacific Northwest businesses that retained their customer's loyalty when challenged. Costco vs. Sam's Club. Bartell's vs. Walgreens/CVS, etc., Starbucks vs. Dunkin' Donuts. You don't see many (if any) Red Lobsters, Joe's Crab Shacks, Longhorn Steak...people support local like Anthony's, Salty's, Ivar's, etc. Planet Hollywood, Hard Rock, TGI Fridays, etc were miserable failures in Seattle. People want genuine and caring service provided by their neighbors, friends, friends of friends...they know exactly what is going on and no one is impressed by DL's plans besides the Port of Seattle...excited to be building new terminals and gates.
 
Sightseer
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 29):
Exactly why DL will fail in the end....

Whether or not they fail depends on their ultimate goal, does it not?


If the goal is to drive AS out of business, I have my doubts they'll succeed.

If the goal is to basically move the NRT hub to SEA, I think they'll be OK.
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 26):
Puget Sound Business Journals seems to be doing daily articles on DL vs AS. Here's another article today about a Seattle investment banker saying the Seattle business community needs to support AS or Delta will take them over. My self I'm still very bullish on AS. I just don't see DL picking up that much SEA traffic. I know they can throw lots of $$$ at the SEA hub, but I believe they will tire of this eventually and just keep major market flights to feed the Asia flights.

Here is one the Puget Sound Business Journal did several day ago.

An analyst was amazed how AS could fight off Maw Delta the way they are.....

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...airliness-ability-to.html?page=all

[Edited 2015-03-18 20:43:37]
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8539
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:16 am

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 30):

If the goal is to drive AS out of business, I have my doubts they'll succeed.

No company would ever set this as a realistic outcome. That's just not how businesses operate.
 
mwh787
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:29 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:03 pm

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 26):

Puget Sound Business Journals seems to be doing daily articles on DL vs AS.

Just like I said..Another article today. Here is the link
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...a-airlines-seattle-could-lose.html

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 27):
The problem is that most of the American public isn't smart enough to understand the long term effects of their decisions. By gosh, if you can save 50 cents at WalMart, who cares if a locally owned small business with far better service and quality goes out of business. That is until the same people are upset because the small business is gone.

Same with AS vs DL. If DL is $20 cheaper, most people will buy that ticket. Then if AS can't survive and DL takes them over, the prices will go up and service go down. But people aren't smart enough to see past that short term $20 savings.

I totally agree with this analogy. When I was in travel business (70's, 80's, 90's) we had incentive agreements with AS, UA and others to drive traffic. We were able to do so very well until some other established or upstart airline (like Pacific Express, Sunworld, PSA, or CO/TI ) came along and started similar routes charging $10-$20 less the customer would ALWAYS opt for the cheaper flight no matter how inconvenient it was. The same is still true today, loyalty programs help but $$ is still the driver.

Also agree the loss of Marmot is a real shame.

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 28):
Why does everyone always say one is going to take over another or one will move out?

Why can't it be like ORD with AA and UA? SEA can coexist with AS and DL, right?

While I doubt DL will takeover AS or drive them out of business. SEA as a hub is not as big of demographic as ORD nor is it in as good of logistical spot for 2 or more carries to establish hubs. I have said before I think DL will have a hub to connect traffic to Asia and AS will be the true local hub. I think in a couple of years all domestic flights on DL will be timed for Asia and maybe European flights.
As others have said AS has good local loyalty and if the keep fares competitive they will get bigger. The management of AS is smart (I know some of them) and they will work at getting smarter.
 
toobz
Posts: 875
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:10 pm

LoL some of the comments I read on here are just too amusing. Most people are not that emotional over airlines, unlike us Anutters. They don't care what airline they are flying as long as the price is right. Some people are going to choose AS due to loyalty. But not as many that some posters on here want us to believe. AS and DL will co exist. DL will not run AS out of business and AS will most likely not run the 900lbs gorilla that is DL out of SEA. Stop with the emotional speeches already. They are both businesses and are looking out for themselves.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13579
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 28):
Why can't it be like ORD with AA and UA?

Because ChicagoLand is nearly three times larger than SeaTac, and far more powerful in business.... just ask Boeing.  


Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):
No company would ever set this as a realistic outcome.

Um, since when? ....shall we review AA vs. Legend?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:54 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 34):
Most people are not that emotional over airlines, unlike us Anutters. They don't care what airline they are flying as long as the price is right. Some people are going to choose AS due to loyalty. But not as many that some posters on here want us to believe.

It's hard to argue with that statement, though it's somewhat hard to be "wrong" with such generalizations. Nonetheless, what I would say is that people in the Pacific Northwest have become accustomed to flying AS just out of habit if nothing else. DL will make inroads to be sure but I think it will take a while to really impact that bias.

Also, you mention "emotion" but you can't discount the "emotion" of the consumer. I'm not one of those people who thinks AS will crush DL in SEA nor do I think that AS cannot fail/fall to DL's inroads. What I will say, though, is that people like brands and in SEA, Alaska Airlines is the brand people connect with the most, partly because they are the hometown team and now also the "underdog", if you will, that is being assaulted by DL. Those things resonate with people on an emotional level, which is why Alaska has focused on the emotional side of that connection in their current advertising.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 34):
Stop with the emotional speeches already. They are both businesses and are looking out for themselves.

         AS and DL couldn't care less about the vast majority of their passengers. They are looking to make profit, and that's it. The emotion is ridiculous. If need be, AS would screw over SEA passengers tomorrow if it meant increasing their bottom line. The loyalty is definitely a one-way street, unless you're a very high-value customer.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Sightseer
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:25 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):

Right. I was, to put it mildly, putting it mildly  
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 15):
and start a relationship with UA. UA used to be AS's major competition in Seattle, but has basically abandoned the market.

I've wondered about this for a while. Prior to the UA/CO merger years ago, UA cut back on some of their EWR service to (possibly) show less route overlap and grease the DOJ skids for their future CO merger.

I don't see any mergers in the US aviation industry for many, many years but having UA step back a bit from the SEA market might be a 'wink-wink, nod-nod' invitation for AS to look at *A as a way of keeping their identity as well as aligning themselves with one of the powerhouse alliances. The Int'l *A line-up at SEA is pretty impressive which could help AS as well. If DL is posing an increased threat to AS, an alliance partnership could give AS quite a bit of leverage.

UA isn't near the competitor they used to be in SEA and having no apparent ability or ambitions to increase their footprint in SEA they really are no threat to AS's hub and they might co-exist nicely.

The DEN/SFO connections with UA/*A would be greater and much more convenient than the PHX/LAX connections available thru AA/OW.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2318
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:21 pm

The Puget Sound Business Journal can't seem to stop talking about DL vs AS...another new story today:

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...-seattle-could-lose.html?ana=yahoo
 
aa777lvr
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:42 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 40):
The Puget Sound Business Journal can't seem to stop talking about DL vs AS...another new story today:

Interesting? Slow news day in the SEA business community?. When I started the thread, I thought for once they had something nice to say about the competitiion between AS/DL. The past 2 days seem to be pure propoganda into whipping the emotions of the SEA business community to rally around one of their own.

First, in the caption it states Mr. Badshah once "an analyst who once coordianted Microsoft's corporate giving." Or is it coordinate? Does the publication not own a spell checker?

Also, ironic that they use the example of Boeing when referring to DL likely being Atlanta-centric in it's community affairs. Wait, isn't Boeing technically a Chicago headquartered company? (100 N. Riverside Plaza, Chicago, IL) ???? I get it, the bulk of Boeing's employees are in the PNW.

Boeing wasn't loyal enough to the PNW to keep their HQ there. Should we all show our solidarity by not flying on Boeing aircraft? Of course not.

Good grief.

AA777LVR

[Edited 2015-03-19 12:58:10]
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:35 pm

Obviously Seattle is a community that cares a lot about it or you wouldn't see all these articles etc about it. They could be like Phoenix which has said very little about American moving HDQ to DFW. They showed a little concern at first but have been relatively silent about it all.
 
User avatar
b777900
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:27 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 4):

like what types of wide body? 330 or 350's?
[i[b]]Prepare for Gate arrival, Gate 32
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15801
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 33):
While I doubt DL will takeover AS or drive them out of business. SEA as a hub is not as big of demographic as ORD nor is it in as good of logistical spot for 2 or more carries to establish hubs.

Paraphrasing a quote from Richard Anderson himself, he identified SEA as working for DL because it was geographically suited for Asia flights, was in a largely trade-dependent state, was projected to be one of the fastest-growing regions of the nation for the next 10 years, and that it has a traffic base much larger than the Twin Cities.

That last piece is critical, as it means he felt SEA was largely under-served and there was in fact room for a MSP-sized (or greater) operation there, and at that point the 250 to 270 daily flights AS offered were far lower than the 400-450 daily flights fielded at MSP. Point being, that AS at now at around 300 flights and DL at 120-150 flights can and most likely will peacefully coexist at SEA; AS will most likely always have a much larger operation overall, but DL will be sizable too.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
AS and DL couldn't care less about the vast majority of their passengers.

  

Caring about your passengers is good business. Say what you will about either AS or DL, but I think if you asked either CEO about their customers they'd identify them - along with employees and shareholders - as being key stakeholders that MUST be taken care of to be successful.

[Edited 2015-03-19 17:00:45]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Prost
Posts: 2601
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:24 pm

I find it curious the animosity on this board. When I interact with Alaska employees they've been nothing but kind and friendly, and they tell me that their interactions with Delta employees are similar. I get it, some of you hate Delta, you'll never fly on us, etc., but it gets tedious. At least this week it certainly has.
 
B757Forever
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:01 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 45):

I find it curious the animosity on this board. When I interact with Alaska employees they've been nothing but kind and friendly, and they tell me that their interactions with Delta employees are similar.

So true. I chuckle when I read some of the claims of purported high drama between AS and DL. It's only that way in some people's minds. Airline employees almost universally are respectful towards one another and we help each other when we can, it's always been that way. AS and DL will compete and coexist in SEA, with little to no drama...
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15801
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 45):
I find it curious the animosity on this board. When I interact with Alaska employees they've been nothing but kind and friendly, and they tell me that their interactions with Delta employees are similar.

  

Quoting Prost (Reply 45):
I get it, some of you hate Delta, you'll never fly on us, etc., but it gets tedious.

The same goes for the constant "AS is a dead airline flying" drumbeat from many of the pro-DL camp here.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
global1
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:25 am

Both are good airlines. They often battle it out for the #1 spot on many metrics. They are by no means a "dead airline flying", but the days of having a virtually exclusive franchise in SEA are over.
Many cities would give their first born to have 2 airlines of this caliber with hub operations.

The, the 'pity party' though is getting a little stale.

[Edited 2015-03-19 17:46:02]
 
KirkSeattle
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:32 am

RE: DL SEA Hub Making Progress

Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:31 am

Quoting global1 (Reply 48):
The, the 'pity party' though is getting a little stale.

  

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 29):
Exactly why DL will fail in the end....they're 'invading' the turf of a greatly loved local company.

Northwest people don't have an open mind when it comes to supporting the local guy vs. the 'invader'. There are so many examples of local Pacific Northwest businesses that retained their customer's loyalty when challenged. Costco vs. Sam's Club. Bartell's vs. Walgreens/CVS, etc., Starbucks vs. Dunkin' Donuts. You don't see many (if any) Red Lobsters, Joe's Crab Shacks, Longhorn Steak...people support local like Anthony's, Salty's, Ivar's, etc. Planet Hollywood, Hard Rock, TGI Fridays, etc were miserable failures in Seattle. People want genuine and caring service provided by their neighbors, friends, friends of friends...they know exactly what is going on and no one is impressed by DL's plans besides the Port of Seattle...excited to be building new terminals and gates

Oh Lord...this made me laugh. I think I even snorted. The "Invader"? Really?

Dunkins is an East Coast brand
TGIF doesn't have a location in San Francisco
Hard Rock is in downtown Seattle
Plenty of Walgreens and Rite Aid in Seattle
Red Lobster is in the burbs of both SF and Seattle

Seattle is a foodie town, local establishments count. Chains don't unless you are in the burbs.


There are plenty of chain restaurants around, but hardly in the city. But the obvious point you missed regarding AS is that it is a larger EMPLOYER in the area. All employees, family and friends support their employer, especially with flight benefits.

Secondly, and more importantly, the point you missed is that Seattle is a town full of people not from here. Come on, everyone knows in conversations with meeting new people, it's odd to hear someone is a native of Seattle. That is a fact. So, yeah, AS is loved locally for many different reasons. But to call DL an "Invader", puleeze.

You also missed the fact that the flying public might also enjoy lower fares without the monopoly AS has in Seattle. Oh, yeah, the flying public is price sensitive.

I've flown AS plenty of times, love them. But, have flown DL for a lot longer, even here in SEA and love them too. They can both coexist at SEA, no problem.

KirkSeattle

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos