HPRamper
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The End Of Cactus Callsign / AA/US Single Op Cert

Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:08 pm

According to US employees, as of April 7 the "Cactus" callsign will be no more. It's certainly had a good run! Is this a small standalone merger item or is it connected to something larger?

On a related note, is there a set date for SOC?
 
Sooner787
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:19 pm

I didn't think that could happen until the FAA grants the SOC.

Heck, they haven't even merged rez systems yet.
 
rta
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 1):

I didn't think that could happen until the FAA grants the SOC.

That's what I was thinking. So what is their call sign going to be after 7 April?
 
aacun
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:49 pm

The merger is set to take place the next day. On the 8th were expecting To have a SOC. Thats what we have been told. So it all makes sense... The 7th would be the last day of US ops.......
 
B757capt
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:22 pm

The last cactus flight looks like HNL-PHX on the 7th landing the 8th.
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D L X
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:56 pm

Wow! I wasn't expecting this until much later this year.
Does a single SOC mean cross staffing too?
 
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chepos
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:06 pm

^^^^^ No cross staffing yet, it just menas thay on paper (and to the FAA) US and AA are one airline. US cesases to exist on 04/07/2015.

[Edited 2015-03-21 12:11:55]
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D L X
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:41 pm

So it will be like US is now, with east and west? lAA, eAA and wAA?
 
AWACSooner
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting B757capt (Reply 4):
The last cactus flight looks like HNL-PHX on the 7th landing the 8th.

God I miss HP...oh well...
 
commavia
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:27 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
So it will be like US is now, with east and west? lAA, eAA and wAA?

From a legal and regulatory standpoint, there is no differentiation today between USAirways "East" and "West" - it is a single operating entity.

The "East" vs "West" distinction persists, nearly a decade after the USAirways-America West merger, solely for the purposes of collective bargaining, and in particular seniority lists among the company's pilots. (And, it should be noted, this "East" and "West" distinction among USAirways' pilots is already far less significant than it was mere months ago since USAPA is no longer a legally-recognized collective bargaining agent for USAirways pilots, and this distinction is likely to disappear entirely in the coming months as the combined airline's pilot seniority integration is resolved through arbitration.)

What is about to happen - in a matter of a few weeks - is that USAirways as an operational entity will cease to exist and will be folded into AA. After that point, USAirways aircraft will operate under AA's operating certificate, AA's callsign ("American"), AA's IATA and ICAO designations (AA and AAL, respectively). The one I'm not sure about is AA's IATA ticket number prefix (notably, 001) - believe that, too, will be applied to USAirways flights post-4/7, although it may be that this will not occur until res system migration in the fall.
 
AWACSooner
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:34 pm

I've still heard "east vs. west" gossip and denigration amongst the crews as well in the past two times I've flown US since 2013...shocking considering we're a decade into that "marriage." Makes me shudder to think how awesome it'll get with the US crews and AA crews once the intermingling begins in earnest.
 
UA444
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:45 pm

I've seen legacy AA employees refer to themselves as "Native Americans".
 
questions
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:49 pm

Was Ameica West a good airline or on par with US Airways?
 
ridgid727
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting B757capt (Reply 4):
The last cactus flight looks like HNL-PHX on the 7th landing the 8th.
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 8):
God I miss HP...oh well...

Interesting that HP actually was destined for Hawaiian Pacific, but Ed Beauvais bought their certificate to start America West
 
AWACSooner
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:08 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 12):
Was Ameica West a good airline or on par with US Airways?

IMO, they were a billion times better with service, ontime percentage and overall experience than US...but they weren't the healthiest of airlines and had a limited network east of the rockies once the CMH hub closed...and US had a limited network west of the Mississippi river, so the merger made sense from that perspective. IMO, US dragged HP down to their low standards...and that was the shame of the merger...same with UA dragging CO down to theirs (but that is for another thread).
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 12):
Was Ameica West a good airline or on par with US Airways?

US Airways is a good airline as well.

[Edited 2015-03-21 14:20:32]
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
DDR
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 12):

America West was a good regional airline. Safe and pretty dependable. Their PHX and LAS hubs had hundreds of daily flights at very reasonable fares.
 
Maverick623
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting B757capt (Reply 4):
The last cactus flight looks like HNL-PHX on the 7th landing the 8th.

I believe it'll actually be 796 PHL-TLV, leaves at 2105 PHL time (0105z) and arrives 1515 TLV time (1115z). AWE sunset will occur at 0700z on April 8th. HNL-PHX leaves at 0815z, and will actually be one of the first (if not the first) LUS flights to use the AAL callsign.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
DDR
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 15):

And an airline with a great history for airline buffs like me.
 
RogerMurdock
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 17):
I believe it'll actually be 796 PHL-TLV, leaves at 2105 PHL time (0105z) and arrives 1515 TLV time (1115z).

So... is that the plane that gets seized by the Israeli government to force AA to pay their acquired debts from TW?
 
austwin
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:12 pm

I miss America West Airlines too, particularly before going into bankruptcy.

After the SOC will the US aircraft get "American" stickers before being painted?
 
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chepos
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:13 pm

The Native American thing started after the TW merger IIRC
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
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KGRB
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Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:14 pm

We have lost so many great airlines over the past decade. It is sad to lose one more. I take comfort in the fact that the America West management is still in charge. It's hard to believe that the little start-up in PHX has grown to become the world's largest airline.  
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 15):
Quoting questions (Reply 12):Was Ameica West a good airline or on par with US Airways?
US Airways is a good airline as well.

Agreed. I think US Airways often times gets a bad rap, undeservedly, for operating one of the most challenging route structures in the US. With hubs in PHL and DCA, plus large operations in LGA and BOS, US Airways is subject to more ATC delays than probably any other carrier. In addition the operations in those cities have been crippled by some historic snow storms the past several winters.
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HNL
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting RogerMurdock (Reply 19):

So... is that the plane that gets seized by the Israeli government to force AA to pay their acquired debts from TW?

I thought that was resolved and debts paid at the time of the airline merger.
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
Maverick623
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting austwin (Reply 20):
After the SOC will the US aircraft get "American" stickers before being painted?

There will be a sticker by the boarding door saying "Operated by American Airlines". Unlike the protestations of some in a previous thread about the retro A321 livery, the "US Airways" titles do not have to be painted over as a condition of SOC.

Quoting RogerMurdock (Reply 19):
So... is that the plane that gets seized by the Israeli government to force AA to pay their acquired debts from TW?

Everything was resolved as part of the merger approval process.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
americanfan123
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:40 am

As much as I love what the new American will bring and become I'm really going to miss seeing US planes. However if US wasn't disapearing AA probably wouldn't be around much longer.
Proud to Bear the Name American
 
AWACSooner
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting KGRB (Reply 22):
I take comfort in the fact that the America West management is still in charge.

I don't...I understand why he did some of the things he did at HP to keep them solvent, but I DETEST Doug Parker for constantly stooping to the lowest levels possible to make a buck since the US/HP merger.
 
Cadet985
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The End Of Cactus Callsign / AA/US Single Op Cert

Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:50 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 15):
US Airways is a good airline as well.

I have a lot of friends who travel for business on US. I hear nothing but horror stories. In fact, since they've started PHL-TLV, I've WILLINGLY paid more money to not fly them.

One of my friends on a PHL-TLV told me that they didn't even offer a drink service until over 5 hours into the flight, and only one meal service, whereas the other US-based carriers to TLV provide two.

The only way I would fly - even domestically on US - would be if I wasn't paying. Charging for soda, no IFE, uncomfortable seats...sorry...that's not how I fly. My two experiences on AA weren't much better.

Marc
 
PHX787
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:59 am

Gonna miss hearing the "Cactus" call sign descend on the EAGUL5 Arrival over my old apartment  
Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 13):
Quoting B757capt (Reply 4):
The last cactus flight looks like HNL-PHX on the 7th landing the 8th.
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 8):
God I miss HP...oh well...

Interesting that HP actually was destined for Hawaiian Pacific, but Ed Beauvais bought their certificate to start America West

The sheer irony.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
usflyer msp
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 27):
I don't...I understand why he did some of the things he did at HP to keep them solvent, but I DETEST Doug Parker for constantly stooping to the lowest levels possible to make a buck since the US/HP merger.

Better that than lose money, which is what both companies did consistently beforehand...

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 28):
I have a lot of friends who travel for business on US. I hear nothing but horror stories. In fact, since they've started PHL-TLV, I've WILLINGLY paid more money to not fly them.

Nonsense, US' service is the same as everyone elses. I suggest you find other sources of info...
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 28):
I have a lot of friends who travel for business on US. I hear nothing but horror stories.

Everybody has their own experiences, but I've flown US Airways on upwards of 50 segments and never had a problem. Only once did I ever have a flight cancellation and that was because of weather at LGA.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 28):
Charging for soda, no IFE, uncomfortable seats...sorry...that's not how I fly.

They don't charge for soda anymore (I'm not sure when that ended but I've never paid for soda onbaord and I started flying US Airways about five years ago). And I've never found the seats uncomfortable. In fact, the a321s are some of the most comfortable planes I've ever flown on in Y. Again, everybody has their own experiences and their own opinions.

[Edited 2015-03-21 18:08:11]
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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chepos
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:55 am

Interedting thing is I flew LY LAX TLV and came back on US (TLV PHL) .My experience with LY was so appaling I was gad to fly back on US. Now LY is an airline I would avoid at all cost, BAD service all around. From check in at LAX till we deplaned in Tel Aviv.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
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KGRB
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting americanfan123 (Reply 26):
As much as I love what the new American will bring and become I'm really going to miss seeing US planes. However if US wasn't disapearing AA probably wouldn't be around much longer.

I'm not sure that I agree with that statement, but there's little doubt that the combined AA/US is much better positioned for the future and a stronger competitor to UA/DL/WN than either pmAA or pmUS were.
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N1120A
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
The one I'm not sure about is AA's IATA ticket number prefix (notably, 001) - believe that, too, will be applied to USAirways flights post-4/7, although it may be that this will not occur until res system migration in the fall.

They need to do res cut over for that.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 10):

I've still heard "east vs. west" gossip and denigration amongst the crews as well in the past two times I've flown US since 2013...shocking considering we're a decade into that "marriage." Makes me shudder to think how awesome it'll get with the US crews and AA crews once the intermingling begins in earnest.

That nonsense will be dealt with in short order, as AA pilots and staff generally dominate the merger.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 11):

I've seen legacy AA employees refer to themselves as "Native Americans".

Cute
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b777900
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:22 am

Do not forget the Miracle on the Hudson.... SO anyways so long USAirways its been great knowing ya , one final question for me would be why did US pull hub operations from BWI to PIT back in the day.? anyone?
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oflanigan
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:31 am

At least we didn't go the honor the legacy route and try AAL with the Cactus callsign for ATC. Thanks for the memories USAir.
 
Sooner787
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting chepos (Reply 6):
^^^^^ No cross staffing yet, it just menas thay on paper (and to the FAA) US and AA are one airline. US cesases to exist on 04/07/2015.

I'm still confused, we got a memo at work saying all legacy US flts were to be plated on AA ( 001 )
starting late this summer, but til then there will still be legacy US ( 037) etkts being issued

bur5 SOC happens within a few weeks time?
 
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b777900
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:53 am

what is SOC? can anyone explain thanks
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Tugger
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:38 am

Quoting b777900 (Reply 40):
what is SOC?

“Single Operating Certificate”

Tugg
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ATCtower
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:50 am

Not saying this wont happen on schedule but it is extremely rare (I havent seen it), where a decent sized airline changed their callsign and we (ATC) doesnt hear about it far in advance and I have yet to see anything about it....

If it does go through as planned am I correct in assuming their new callsign is 'USAir'?
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hufftheweevil
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
The one I'm not sure about is AA's IATA ticket number prefix (notably, 001) - believe that, too, will be applied to USAirways flights post-4/7, although it may be that this will not occur until res system migration in the fall.
Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 39):
I'm still confused, we got a memo at work saying all legacy US flts were to be plated on AA ( 001 )
starting late this summer, but til then there will still be legacy US ( 037) etkts being issued

Based on this source, it looks like 037 ticket stock will continue for "US Airways" flights through to September 2015, even though they will be flying as American. Seems a bit strange, but it's clear they can't change everything all at once.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the end of "Cactus". Never seemed to fit, to me. I'm also looking forward to getting this all into one operation.

Side note: Beginning yesterday, some pilots on US Airways flights have been refusing to take their copy of the fuel slip. The procedure at AA is that there is no copy for the flight crew, only one for operations. So perhaps they are slowly integrating procedures.
Huff
 
rta
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:55 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 43):

If it does go through as planned am I correct in assuming their new callsign is 'USAir'?

Wouldn't it just be 'American'?
 
Maverick623
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The End Of Cactus Callsign / AA/US Single Op Cert

Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:55 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 39):
I'm still confused, we got a memo at work saying all legacy US flts were to be plated on AA ( 001 )
starting late this summer, but til then there will still be legacy US ( 037) etkts being issued

bur5 SOC happens within a few weeks time?

You're confusing "Res" integration with SOC. Until res integration, tickets will basically be issued as a codeshare, much like if you bought a ticket from United for a flight operated by Lufthansa.

Quoting b777900 (Reply 40):
what is SOC? can anyone explain thanks

Single operating certificate. It allows the two airlines to operate as one, as every single manual will be the same across the merged airline. The only difference is in the res system, which is allowed as long as there's clear policy on which flights use which systems.

Think of it as Mesa Airlines operating as AA Eagle and United Express. Two different systems, but one operating certificate.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
ATCtower
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting rta (Reply 45):
Wouldn't it just be 'American'?

Its possible, but that only aides those of us using radar. The tower controllers would have a hell of a time with the difference.

When UA and CO merged the CO callsign was still used until most of the metal was painted in UA colors for this reason. AFAIK, few, if any, US planes have been painted in AA colors? (If I am wrong my apologies)
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KGRB
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 43):

If it does go through as planned am I correct in assuming their new callsign is 'USAir'?

The call sign hasn't been 'USAir' since America West and US Airways went to a single operating certificate in 2007. Why do you think it will revert back to that?

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 47):
AFAIK, few, if any, US planes have been painted in AA colors? (If I am wrong my apologies)

Please see: New AA Painted Aircraft - Part 11 (by American 767 Mar 1 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Almost half of the A321s & 757s and all but one of the A330s have been repainted.

[Edited 2015-03-21 22:46:20]
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UA444
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 47):

The call sign didn't switch because the reservations system had yet to merge. Same with NW and DL and likely with US and AA.
 
rta
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:37 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 47):
Its possible, but that only aides those of us using radar. The tower controllers would have a hell of a time with the difference.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand why this would be such a big issue.
 
HPRamper
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:11 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 43):
If it does go through as planned am I correct in assuming their new callsign is 'USAir'?

It's going to straight to "American."
 
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EA CO AS
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Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting KGRB (Reply 22):
It's hard to believe that the little start-up in PHX has grown to become the world's largest airline.

It hasn't. While the old HP management is clearly running things, US didn't acquire AA.

[Edited 2015-03-22 00:32:09]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CXfirst
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The End Of Cactus Callsign / AA/US Single Op Cert

Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:35 am

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 47):
Its possible, but that only aides those of us using radar. The tower controllers would have a hell of a time with the difference.

Why? Wouldn't this change make it easier for ATC?

After the 7th, all US Airways painted aircraft and all American painted aircraft will use "American", sure more airplanes to look for, but all controllers would know that the aircraft using "American" will wear one of two possible liveries.

As it is currently, we have a large part of the fleet of US painted into AA. So, they will still use "cactus" but with AA livery. So, controllers seeing an AA painted aircraft wouldn't know just from sight if it is operating under "cactus" or "American".

-CXfirst

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