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wilco737
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Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:21 pm

And part 3 available now.

Here again link to part 2:

Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 2 (by wilco737 Mar 24 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
a321luke
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:23 pm

What a disaster.  

Prayers for victims and their families...
Planes, Trains, and Cars... Heaven :)
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:24 pm

Repeat of my earlier message, which went out to Part 2 just after Part 3 started:

It was said that some survived the Trident crash at Staines (G-ARPI) in 1972, and a child was found still alive in the wreckage of Trident 3 G-AWZT after the midair collision over Zagreb in 1976. In both cases, they succumbed before they could be tended to.
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:25 pm

Aircraft was A320-214 D-AIPX '147' that first flew in November 1990 and was delivered to LH in February 1991. It had been transferred to Germanwings fleet in January 2014.
 
Stabilator
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:26 pm

Asked this in the last thread after it was locked:

During SAR ops, do they usually suspend ops at night? Glad they located a box before nightfall.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:28 pm

Black box has been found, French interior minister says.
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:29 pm

If you want to have a look at the crash area:

This is a paragliding video of Cheval Blanc which is 3 miles South from the crash site.

Around 3.10' in the video you see down the Bleone / Prads valley where the plane crashed.

https://vimeo.com/35031353

 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:30 pm

D-AIPX was delivered to Lufthansa on February 5, 1991 and then transferred to Germanwings on January 31, 2014
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wilco737
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 4):
During SAR ops, do they usually suspend ops at night? Glad they located a box before nightfall.

It depends. I heard that they cannot do search with helicopters once it is dark. So I guess the search will stop soon... and continued tomorrow morning.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):
Black box has been found, French interior minister says.

That's good news. Then lets hope they find the other one as well and it will bring some light into what happened.

I am still in shock.

I don't konw anybody of the crew, but I know some of my friends who knew some of the crew... It is very sad and tragic.

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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:31 pm

Germanwings schedules 6:30 pm CET (1:30 pm ET) press conference to update on Flight 4U9525 investigation
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8):
I am still in shock.

Me too, very sad day.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8):
I know some of my friends who knew some of the crew...

My thoughts and prayers are with the friends and families of the 150 victims.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Here's another photo:




Really does hurt just seeing debris.
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:38 pm

Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:38 pm

Just heard on the radio that many 4U flights have been cancelled because, according to a passenger, flight attendants have refused to board the planes.

Anyone has more informations regarding these cancellations?
 
lpdal
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:39 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8):
It depends. I heard that they cannot do search with helicopters once it is dark. So I guess the search will stop soon... and continued tomorrow morning.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Phil, but why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose:


These are extremely bright and illuminate a fairly large circle.

-LPDAL
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wilco737
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:40 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
m not saying you're wrong, Phil, but why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose:

That's what the news here said in an interview with one of the rescuers on location.

I am sure they have huge and bright spotlights.

wilco737
  
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:40 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 11):

They have been showing videos taken from helicopters flying over the crash site on the FRance24 live feed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFwedk4dBCc

If you look at the paragliding video I posted above, it shows that these areas are very difficult to access. The crash site must be I think... about 3000 meters high.

 
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 13):
Anyone has more informations regarding these cancellations?

It appears that statement is true.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
richierich
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 257):

It was said that some survived the Trident crash at Staines (G-ARPI) in 1972, and a child was found still alive in the wreckage of Trident 3 G-AWZT after the midair collision over Zagreb in 1976. In both cases, they succumbed before they could be tended to.

On PA103 over Lockerbie, a crew member apparently survived in the cockpit section of that B747, but passed away before any chance of a rescue. Not sure if consciousness was ever regained but what an awful situation. The wreckage from the Staines crash, and even PA103, looked very different from what we are seeing from today's disaster. As I previously wrote, we can all hope for a miracle but I think it is quite clear this was not a survivable crash. The images I have seen are heart-breaking.

[Edited 2015-03-24 10:44:41 by wilco737]
None shall pass!!!!
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:45 pm

Wow. Terrible loss. That aircraft was obliterated.
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 13):
Anyone has more informations regarding these cancellations?

I'm looking at several flights at DUS. A lot of Germanwings' flights has been canceled. Not all, but it appears most.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:47 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
I'm not saying you're wrong, Phil, but why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose:

If they are confident there are no survivors, there isn't much point in continuing the search at night. A few hours wait to find the other black box isn't really significant given the higher risk of operating in the dark.
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oly720man
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:47 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8):
It depends. I heard that they cannot do search with helicopters once it is dark. So I guess the search will stop soon... and continued tomorrow morning.

It's not really a search if the crash site is well defined. It's now down to identifying bodies and determining the cause which can only be done with people on the ground and that may not be practical at night in the mountains unless they're going to helicopter generators and lights up there.
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klwright69
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:47 pm

Seeing the pictures I doubt there was a survivor. When AA hit a mountain in Cali Colombia and JAL 123 had a few survivors. They said the AA crash was technically a nonsurviveable event either. But I am not that hopeful about this one.
 
wilco737
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:48 pm

Press conference was rather short. They confirmed 150 people on board, 16 kids from a school in Nordrhein- Westfalen...

Not a lot news at the moment.

Teams of LH, LH Technik, BAE, BFU and GWI are on the way or already in France, starting its difficult work.

wilco737
  
 
Mir
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 4):
During SAR ops, do they usually suspend ops at night?

If they have to for the safety of the SAR teams, they will.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose:

The helicopters still have to avoid running into the mountains themselves. I would think that's the main factor in suspending the investigation overnight.

-Mir
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Luftfahrer
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:54 pm

This is terrible, virtually unthinkable something like this could ever happen.   The circumstances simply don't add up.
What irks me is that for all we know there were no distress calls from the crew... this was not a sudden impact, surely they must have been incapacitated in some form?
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Unflug
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 13):
Just heard on the radio that many 4U flights have been cancelled because, according to a passenger, flight attendants have refused to board the planes.

Anyone has more informations regarding these cancellations?

Just checked the departure info for Düsseldorf, Cologne and Hamburg: there are in fact a couple of cancellations in Düsseldorf and Cologne (wouldn't call that "many"), none in Hamburg. Reason for these cancellations can't be seen on the departure info, obviously...
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:55 pm

Lufthansa Vice President says D-AIPX had flown 55,8313 flights in its 24 years of service
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 25):
Teams of LH, LH Technik, BAE, BFU and GWI are on the way or already in France, starting its difficult work.

This is a very rough area with a lot of sharp edges and cliffs, the valleys are hardly accessible except by helicopter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8yb1GTgW_Y
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
IADCA
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 26):
The helicopters still have to avoid running into the mountains themselves. I would think that's the main factor in suspending the investigation overnight.

Depending on how quick the organization is and conditions on the mountain overnight, you could ferry in supplies that would allow the ground search to continue overnight without constant air support.
 
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Most of you may not believe this but. The last maintenance check on D-AIPX was YESTERDAY..
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
redflyer
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 11):
Here's another photo:

I was dismayed when I saw this morning the authorities saying there were no survivors (at least that's what some of the media outlets here in the U.S. were reporting), because I couldn't understand how they could make such a quick judgment call. But if all of the remains of the aircraft look like what's visible in this photo then I can understand why the authorities were so quick to indicate there were no survivors. It looks like the Airbus was totally and thoroughly obliterated. What an utter and incomprehensible tragedy. I can't fathom what the survivors are enduring right now, in particular the loved ones of the group of German students. Not that any of the other victims' loved ones are suffering any less, but to lose a group of a country's youth, its future, is really heartbreaking.
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wilco737
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 32):

Yes, but only a small 'A' check. This is a rather small check which is done quite often. The bigger checks are a littler longer ago. The last 'C' check was in 2013. Which isn't too long ago as well.

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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
I'm not saying you're wrong, Phil, but why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose:

These are extremely bright and illuminate a fairly large circle.

The problem is the terrain. And the weather won't help either.

I heard on the radio that 150 people with stay on the site overnight, some might continue searching while others will probably sleep before a long day tomorrow.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
teahan
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:59 pm

Has a passenger list been released?
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hivue
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 32):
Most of you may not believe this but. The last maintenance check on D-AIPX was YESTERDAY..

Why wouldn't we believe it? It's been mentioned several times already.
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Miami
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting teahan (Reply 36):

Not yet.
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wilco737
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting teahan (Reply 36):
Has a passenger list been released?

No, they are still working on identifying 100% who was on board and inform their families first before they release this officially - if at all.

It is said 43 Spains and 67 Germans. Rest is not published yet.

wilco737
  
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Another crash site video

BBC News
Rescue workers have reached the site and are attempting to begin the recovery operation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32041533

 
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
teahan
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:04 pm

Miami, Wilco737, thanks.
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 27):
What irks me is that for all we know there were no distress calls from the crew... this was not a sudden impact, surely they must have been incapacitated in some form?

We have to wait for the investigation to get answers. Certainly accidental descent and loss of situational awareness for 8 minutes is pretty far fetched. Incapacitation would require some sort of crew oxygen failure, either in the system or pilots using the system.

Edit: Or maybe cockpit window failure could incapacitate the pilots almost immediately?

[Edited 2015-03-24 11:16:40]
 
jerrylee
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:06 pm

If it is true that Germanwings flights had to be cancelled because of crew refusing to go onboard Airbus planes, this will become the biggest scandal in German aviation so far. I simply can't believe these news.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8):
It depends. I heard that they cannot do search with helicopters once it is dark. So I guess the search will stop soon... and continued tomorrow morning.


I'm not saying you're wrong, Phil, but why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose:

But what's the point when video from the scene indicates there's no possibility of survivors? By working at night in such difficult terrain, and with weather also an issue, you're only putting more people in danger for no reason.
 
Flyer732
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 15):
I'm not saying you're wrong, Phil, but why can't they continue searching at night? Most police, military, and Coast Guard helicopters have spolights for this specific purpose

Have you ever tried flying at high altitude in extreme terrain, with gusting winds coming off mountain peaks? Its a challenge in the day time, let alone at night, flying through the night just puts more crews at risk.
 
wilco737
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting jerrylee (Reply 42):

As Germanwings only have Airbus (plus the CRJ's) they don't refuse to go on board an AIRBUS plane, but more like not going to work at all as they are in shock as well, lost co-works, friends etc.

The question is, can they do their job properly with their thoughts with the ones involved.

wilco737
  
 
Stratofish
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 13):

I have heard some flight crews just didn't feel up to the task of safely operate a flight following the event which led to cancelations. Some might call them names but in the end they did the only acted rational and professional, IMO.

So sad
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Unflug
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 32):
Most of you may not believe this but. The last maintenance check on D-AIPX was YESTERDAY..
Quoting hivue (Reply 37):
Why wouldn't we believe it? It's been mentioned several times already.
Quoting Miami (Reply 38):

Not yet.

See previous thread starting with post 61.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:13 pm

Looking at the video from francetvinfo, It's highly unlikely that what we see is burned ground as some have suggested earlier. Rather, the terrain look like black shales, a very widespread rock formation in this part of the Alps (rocks also referred to as Terres Noires by locals). Very crumbly, steep and scary terrain, usually poorly vegetated as landslides and debris flows are frequent. No evidence of burn therefore (in my opinion) which however should not mean evidence of no burn. The smoke that we see is likely a debris of the aircraft that caught on fire, but what I'm saying is the crash probably did not ignite the whole mountain slope.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 17):
If you look at the paragliding video I posted above, it shows that these areas are very difficult to access. The crash site must be I think... about 3000 meters high.

I'd rather place it around or below 2000 m based on vegetation and lack of snow (although it looks to be right under the first snow cover).

(note: this is as an educated guess based on my experience of living the Alps for many years and from what I know of them as a geologist, but no more no less, and if I'm wrong, then I will stand by the facts.)

Awful. My thoughts and condolences to the victims.
When I doubt... go running!
 
jerrylee
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS! Part 3

Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 45):

Ok, thanks

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