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Miami
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Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:17 pm

Air New Zealand has announced its first destination in South America.

Starting December 1st, 2015. Air New Zealand will begin 3 weekly EZE service on board the 777-200ER.

Schedule:
NZ030 AKL1920 – 1500EZE 777 257
NZ031 EZE2359 – 0530+2AKL 777 257

http://airlineroute.net/2015/03/24/nz-eze-dec15/
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747megatop
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:30 pm

What are the alternate diversion airports along the flight path? I don't see any -

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=akl-eze&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=120&E=180


I thought only quads operate these remote southern routes that go close to Antarctica.
 
zrs70
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:31 pm

I wonder if this will somehow be included in the *A circle pacific fare!
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:02 pm

Announced many months ago
Air NZ Announces South America Route (by motorhussy Dec 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Plus well discussed in the NZ Aviation threads.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
zkncj
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:14 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 1):
What are the alternate diversion airports along the flight path? I don't see any -

They are planning to have ETDO330 on the 772 fleet by December 2015, which makes the southern pacific ocean cross able by an twin.

With 330 minutes it should be do-able with an slight Northern Track from AKL, rather than an South Track.
 
behramjee
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:23 pm

what does ANZ see in EZE? Does it expect major beyond feed with Aerolineas or someone else?
 
Marambio
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 5):
what does ANZ see in EZE? Does it expect major beyond feed with Aerolineas or someone else?

They will codeshare in AR's flights to Brazil.
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
They will codeshare in AR's flights to Brazil.

And AR will codeshare on NZ flights to AKL and beyond to SYD, MEL, BNE, PER, ADL, OOL, CNS, SIN and HKG.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 1):
I thought only quads operate these remote southern routes that go close to Antarctica.

LA are also starting twin ops on the SCL-AKL-SYD run, initially with the 788 next month (18 April) and then upguaging to the 789. Australia's authority is currently reviewing its policy on twin ops in the Southern Ocean so LA may soon start flying SCL-SYD direct as well as via AKL or possibly terminating the New Zealand leg in MEL - they'll have options.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 5):
what does ANZ see in EZE?

The quickest route to GRU (and CGH) and GIG (and SDU) is via Buenos Aires since a non-stop Brazil leg falls into ULH territory. And a lot of New Zealand and Australian tourists visit Argentina which is not currently served direct-non-stop from this part of the world.
come visit the south pacific
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 4):
With 330 minutes it should be do-able with an slight Northern Track from AKL, rather than an South Track.

They need 300-min which is the cargo hold fire suppression limit which they will have . The track that the ICAO show on P 98 of the link below will be typical of AKL-EZE.
The track is south of the great circle by quite a bit. See P 67 for optimum routing.


http://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/20...%20Operations%20considerations.pdf

[Edited 2015-03-24 19:16:40]
 
C010T3
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:16 am

Quoting Marambio (Reply 6):
They will codeshare in AR's flights to Brazil.
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 7):
The quickest route to GRU (and CGH) and GIG (and SDU) is via Buenos Aires since a non-stop Brazil leg falls into ULH territory. And a lot of New Zealand and Australian tourists visit Argentina which is not currently served direct-non-stop from this part of the world.

Aerolíneas hasn't moved a finger to create new flights at EZE in order to feed NZ. Not surprisingly, NZ can rely more on TK as a feeder than on AR. It's a shame it only works outbound from GRU.

SDU and CGH are not like AEP. They do not handle international flights and are thus unreachable nonstop from foreign countries.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:21 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Aerolíneas hasn't moved a finger to create new flights at EZE in order to feed NZ



It's still 8 months out from the first service, there is time for AR to arrange connections to/from a 3 x weekly flight ( although it would have been nice to have them in place when the AKL-EZE flights became bookable).
 
dcajet
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 5):
what does ANZ see in EZE? Does it expect major beyond feed with Aerolineas or someone else?

For starters, an alpha global city with a population of 13MM, so there is plenty of traffic in Bs Aires alone to feed the flight. BTW, NZ is a visa free destination for Argentines, so it is a very attractive vacation destination as well as an ever increasing study English abroad destination. There is also a decades old tradition from rugby clubs from both countries to visit each others' countries and that is no small potatoes at the end of the day. Do not forget that the EZE-AKL route has been around for 30+ years and has proven its worth, so NZ is not jumping into the unknown here.

Also Bs Aires is the quickest way to reach Brazil and specifically, Sao Paulo, the powerhouse of South America.

I struggle to understand the skepticism and downright vitriol that quite a few posts regaled us with a few months ago, criticizing NZ's choice of gateway to South America. Even suggesting BOG, PTY and LIM would have been better choices for NZ. I know that bashing Argentina and AR is almost a time honored sport for some at A.net (especially from members in other Latin American countries). Nothing new. But not a single fact supports those theories. Just count how many citizens of those countries pass thru AKL and SYD and compare that to Argentines and Brazilians. Conversely, how many Aussies or Kiwis choose those destinations over Argentina and Brazil as destinations for business and pleasure? NZ is just following the money here. Lets not confuse LAN's hub in LIM, CM's in PTY and AV's in BOG with the fantasy that somehow those cities have become global alpha cities with the economic, industrial, cultural footprint and human development indicators of Buenos Aires.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Aerolíneas hasn't moved a finger to create new flights at EZE in order to feed NZ. Not surprisingly, NZ can rely more on TK as a feeder than on AR. It's a shame it only works outbound from GRU.

And how do you know that? Unless you have first hand knowledge of AR's schedule planning dept. We are talking a flight that is 8 months away, so there is time. I agree that it would have been ideal that at least the GRU connection had been sorted already, but it just became bookable today. Sorry, but gimme a break, especially considering that Brazil flights are considered domestic from a schedule planning perspective at AR. All they need to do is move one of the 5 daily departures from AEP to EZE - specifically the 4:15PM departure - and on the inbound from GRU move forward the 8:45PM departure by an hour or so and have it land at EZE instead of AEP.

TK is late at least 90% of the times - most times landing at EZE too late to make the connection with NZ. Just check the TK website, FR24 or the sites for GRU or EZE to see what I am talking about. For some reason, the flight is almost always late leaving IST and there are additional delays in GRU sometimes.

A storm in a tea cup.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:24 am

Launch AKL/WLG/CHC-EZE promo fares just appeared on my Facebook feed at NZ$899 each way. Be interesting to see what LA counter with.
come visit the south pacific
 
SCL767
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Aerolíneas hasn't moved a finger to create new flights at EZE in order to feed NZ. Not surprisingly, NZ can rely more on TK as a feeder than on AR. It's a shame it only works outbound from GRU.

I'm sure that AR will work very hard to ensure that connectivity to/from Brazil via EZE works for NZ, (after all AR really needs as much foreign income as it can get).  
Hopefully NZ will soon advertise the new route to the Brazilian market once the "issues" with AR are sorted out. TAM has been promoting the 787 entering the SCL-AKL-SYD route for months now:


Quoting motorhussy (Reply 13):
Be interesting to see what LA counter with.

LAN currently offers AKL-SCL-BUE for NZ$2,435 (http://www.lan.com/en_nz/sitio_personas/index.html). Remember LAN's main point of sale for this service is the entire South American continent followed by Australia. LAN codeshares with oneworld alliance carriers Qantas, Cathay and TAM on this route. Now that the Australia-Chile air services agreement expanded, LAN can finally offer the three new frequencies to Australia via AKL by the end of Q4; as well as increasing cooperation with our "chum" in Australia. Interesting to note that LAN is the only oneworld carrier that operates between the Americas and AKL which actually benefits LAN's service to AKL.
 
dc10s2hnl
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:52 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Aerolíneas hasn't moved a finger to create new flights at EZE in order to feed NZ. Not surprisingly, NZ can rely more on TK as a feeder than on AR. It's a shame it only works outbound from GRU.
Quoting dcajet (Reply 12):
TK is late at least 90% of the times - most times landing at EZE too late to make the connection with NZ.

On the NZ website, TK 15/16 is indeed one of the main connection options on the EZE-GRU-EZE sector, however TK's 2hr connection GRU-EZE (as dcajet pointed out) wouldn't be a feasible option due to the delays, unless re-timing occurs. Will all the AR codeshare flights and TK15/16 carry a NZ flight number?
 
dcajet
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:15 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
Hopefully NZ will soon advertise the new route to the Brazilian market once the "issues" with AR are sorted out.

Pardon me, but what "issues" are we talking about? I would worry if it is NZ the one doing the complaining. But from the choir that last year went postal when EZE was chosen as NZ's South America gateway, please...

Air New Zealand is not a fly in the dark operation. I would think a reputable organization like NZ wouldn't just pick up the phone one day, share with AR their plans and just sit there and hope that AR finds it in its heart to give them a hand with the connectivity they need to tap into the Brazilian market. That is not how business is done.

Geez, all it takes is one post stating that AR has not moved a finger and cue for the choir to begin?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
SCL767
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:48 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 16):
Pardon me, but what "issues" are we talking about?

I was referring to the "pending" reciprocal codeshare agreement between NZ and AR and the fact that AR hasn't even revised their schedule even though NZ has put their flights on sale offering connections to/from GRU and GIG on flights operated by TK and/or AR/AU flights via AEP.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 16):
But from the choir that last year went postal when EZE was chosen as NZ's South America gateway, please...

Um...I did not participate in that discussion (re-read that thread) and for the record I have stated in the NZ forums that IMO Lima was not a viable destination for NZ to fly to for obvious reasons.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 16):
Air New Zealand is not a fly in the dark operation. I would think a reputable organization like NZ wouldn't just pick up the phone one day, share with AR their plans and just sit there and hope that AR finds it in its heart to give them a hand with the connectivity they need to tap into the Brazilian market. That is not how business is done.

Oh I know NZ very well. We built up that route from 3x weekly and soon it will go 10x weekly. Please be realistic. You know how things are done in Argentina. I would assume that NZ would have applied and/or given notice of its intention to fly to EZE to the ANAC; which is basically a branch of Aerolíneas. That's just the reality of the situation.
 
dcajet
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
Oh I know NZ very well. We built up that route from 3x weekly and soon it will go 10x weekly. Please be realistic. You know how things are done in Argentina. I would assume that NZ would have applied and/or given notice of its intention to fly to EZE to the ANAC; which is basically a branch of Aerolíneas. That's just the reality of the situation.

I don't know how things are done in Argentina. All I know is that you have a pedantic and patronizing way of referring to Argentina. You are not preaching from Switzerland or Norway after all so lets keep that air of superiority in check.

Again, you give for granted that AR will let NZ down, even if you may not have been singing in the lets bash ANZ for choosing Buenos Aires choir. All I am asking and pointing out is if you have any concrete evidence of what you are saying? Or just wishful thinking from a very non factual place?

I don't understand you when you say that you know NZ very well and that "we built that route"? Are you somehow implying that Kiwis are just improvising here? And when you say "we" am I to understand that you speak for LAN? And if we are going to be factual, and just for the record, LA did not build that route. It was AR. LA just jumped on the bandwagon 20 years after AR made it commercially viable.

Regards,
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
SCL767
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 18):
All I know is that you have a pedantic and patronizing way of referring to Argentina.

By stating facts regarding the way that they have treated certain competing airlines. For example, remember when QF wanted to codeshare on LAN and TAM flights to/from Brazil via EZE? You should read the many international aviation articles published on the matters faced by many airlines that used to and/or currently operating in Argentina, which is known by the entire industry.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 18):
You are not preaching from Switzerland or Norway after all so lets keep that air of superiority in check.

Our countries have different systems; one is very transparent while the other is just the opposite. Sorry if that offends you.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 18):
Again, you give for granted that AR will let NZ down, even if you may not have been singing in the lets bash ANZ for choosing Buenos Aires choir. All I am asking and pointing out is if you have any concrete evidence of what you are saying? Or just wishful thinking from a very non factual place?

I'm not privy to the agreement between the two carriers. I'm going by the facts that have been presented publicly to all of us thus far.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 18):
I don't understand you when you say that you know NZ very well and that "we built that route"? Are you somehow implying that Kiwis are just improvising here?

I've been to NZ countless times, (in fact I'll be in AKL next month). When you travel through a carrier's hub for so many years you get to know how their home carrier operates.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 18):
And when you say "we" am I to understand that you speak for LAN? And if we are going to be factual, and just for the record, LA did not build that route. It was AR. LA just jumped on the bandwagon 20 years after AR made it commercially viable.

Here we go again. I'm referring to when LAN initially launched SCL-AKL-SYD 3x weekly in 2002. LAN has sustainably built up that route over the years to a daily service. This year LAN will add new frequencies on the route as well as introducing the 787s on the Pacific crossing. AR may have built the route out of Argentina since the 1970's; but in the end they failed miserably at it. Moot point!

[Edited 2015-03-25 01:22:16]
 
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mariner
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 5):
hat does ANZ see in EZE? Does it expect major beyond feed with Aerolineas or someone else?

People from South America seem to think the flights are about Brazil when actually they are more about Australia - and, to a very much lesser extent, Asia. Air NZ believes that more than a third of he AKL-EZE traffic will be connecting from Australia:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11379808

NZ's Argentina flights fill gap for Aussies

More than a third of Air NZ seats expected to be filled by Australians, who lost a direct service in April.

Capa said Air New Zealand recognised the NZ-Argentina market was limited and plans to rely heavily on sixth freedom traffic, particularly to and from Australia.

Chief executive Christopher Luxon told a Star Alliance meeting in Delhi about 35 per cent of traffic for the Auckland-Buenos Aires route would come from Australia, which has a large Argentine community."


Generally, I think it's a fairly smart move.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 11):
I struggle to understand the skepticism and downright vitriol that quite a few posts regaled us with a few months ago, criticizing NZ's choice of gateway to South America.

  

That puzzles me, too.

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Marambio
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RE: Air New Zealand To Launch Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:27 am

AR made the route work for over 30 years, it was a matter of time before NZ took over the lead after AR left.

Beats me why every thread concerning a new route ex-EZE gets flooded with Argentina bashers.
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo

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