Look at recorders' pictures, the data card is inside the cylinder, the rest of the recorder is what has been found in the case of the FDR and is unimportant. In fact today we could fit the entire thing inside the cylinder.

No mention of ACARS?

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 152): No mention of ACARS?

No, but I haven't heard anybody ask about it yet, neither in the BEA press conference nor during the various Germanwings press conferences.

Quoting richierich (Reply 137): Eight minutes is quite a long time to have not released a single mayday or attempt to contact LH maintenance for some sort of troubleshooting. Of course it is possible that the pilots were dealing with a myriad of other issues but the controlled, uniform descent of the flight path leads me to think that this might not be the case.

Eight minutes is indeed a long time for the pilots not to have sent out some kind of transmission. AS261 and PSA182 are two crashes that occurred over a very short period of time from the onset of the upset to the destruction of the aircraft and in both instances the pilots managed to get off a transmission. I think the length of time on this particular crash from the departure from cruise to impact would indicate, on its face, that the pilots may have been incapacitated.

[Edited 2015-03-25 09:39:51]

Regarding the possible cause of the crash, i was wondering about the possibility of a catastrophic windshield failure, in this case. I know this is pure speculation, though. What would happen if a windshield would shatter to pieces in flight, and how the autopilot would react in such a case?

[Edited 2015-03-25 09:40:07]

[Edited 2015-03-25 09:41:12]

Quoting racko (Reply 146): They have the audio file from the voice recorder and have listened to it, they are just not willing to discuss the content at the moment.

That's interesting and fuels for more speculation. If there would have been silence, then they would tell.

Quoting racko (Reply 146): Then you understood it wrong. They have the audio file from the voice recorder and have listened to it, they are just not willing to discuss the content at the moment.

I'm really not sure about that. The slide at 16:13 in the presentation says:

"A ce stade de son exploitation, les travaux sont en cours et n'ont pas encore permis d'en extraire des données utilisables."

And that means currently work is in progress but has not yet allowed to extract any useable data.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 157): I'm really not sure about that. The slide at 16:13 in the presentation says: "A ce stade de son exploitation, les travaux sont en cours et n'ont pas encore permis d'en extraire des données utilisables." And that means currently work is in progress but has not yet allowed to extract any useable data.

Well the director of the BEA just said that they have been able to extract a usable audio file. He should know.

Quoting sebolino (Reply 136): "Des données utilisables ont été extraites de la première boîte noire." Usable data extracted from the CVR.

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 139): Unbelievable. They come out to say the have the voices and they don't say anything else!

They have data, not necessarily voices. A lot of things on an airplane flight deck make audible noises.

[Edited 2015-03-25 09:47:32]

aftenposten.no is quoting Remi Jouty, BEA leader, as saying "voices have been heard on the CVR", but no info on what was said, or during which stage of the flight.

According to the press conference they have been able to listen the CVR few minutes before the Press conference, so that´s why they can´t give information, so it´s confirmed that the CVR was found and listened.


""In the questions the BEA reported, they have been able to listen to the audio for a first time, but having the audio only for a few minutes prior to the press conference are unable to make any further statement. The debris and distribution of debris does not suggest there has been any explosion on board of the aircraft""

they also said that they have no information regarding the windshield, so that´s not official, it´s just a rumour.

""When confronted by journalists with rumours originating in Finnish media quoting Finland's CAA about a burst windshield, the BEA said they have no such information""

I did a simultaneous typed translation of the BEA presser as I was listening
via

www.francetvinfo.fr live feed

Start Presser:

priority will be given to find the recorders and finding the aircraft main components

then certain choices will be made to recouperate and analyze certain parts of the plane made difficult by the scattered aircraft parts all over

the aircraft has followed the planned route it was at cruise alt 38,000 ft arouund 9.30 am las tmessage to the tower the message was routine

he was allowed to continue as normal

about one mi nute later the aircraft started a descent until the last radar position - the impact at the impact site -about 10 minutes

the last altitude recorded by the radar was 6000 feet

we cannot tell why the aircraft descended to the crash and why the contact was lost

the flight recorder found yesterday was remitted to us at 9.45 am t his morning

the important part containing the data is in our hands there is also a part for the sea which is not important for us

the work of read ing of t his has began immediately and some difficulty have been met but we have succeded extracting an audio file that can be used

but it is too early to draw conclusions on what happened

we need to work on this audio file to decipher all the details in the f ile

we have the audio files for the whole length of the flight so we need to work on it

they will have to do it in conjunction with the other flight recorder and work on the two recorders to refine the comprehension of the flight so they can transcribe the data

could take several weeks or months

we will communicate as soon as we have more information

they have not found the second flight recorder he said

they have noo knowledge of any flight recorder that was totally destroyed in the whole aviation history.

he cannot confirm that no element of the second flight recorder were found

he says the area of the crash is not that big so they should not have too much trouble finding the other flight recorder and be able to fully analyze the flight data

he said they will scour the whole of the area and do everything necessary to find the second flight recorder

3000 ft minute descent (constant) radar data

he said he will close no door on the cause of the crash

he says the aviation world had a lot of mishaps so the context is difficult but the work will be done and we will take all the time necessary aside from all the emotional feed coming from the crash

the radar trajectory goes to some hundred meters of the crash point the aircraft flew until the end

the debris do not show an aircraft that exploded in flight

they are too small this kind of debris shows an impact on a very hard surface at very high speed

(mali accident last summer)

they are going to recoop all the weather data at departure, during flight and at crash point to see if this can be a factor for the crash but nothing shows any weather problems

the accident
technical problems?
or intentional action?

they have no information on this yet so they cannot tell for hte time being.

techies from the airline and from the constructor will participate in the inquest

some bea people are on site they are not there to inspect precisely certain debris but to find the missing recorder and examine certain debris they have found

some might be repatriated to be sent to a lab

they will start transcribing the first recorder asap before they find the second recorder

they hope to find the second recorder soon

too early to tell about the engines not one engine failure and not two engine failures

they will look at the professional backgrounds of the pilots but their names will not be made public

End Presser

Another presser at Barcelona airport will take place at 7.00 PM local time

Hello.

Currently in the tropics, were the weather is nice but not the internet connections. Furthermore someone pays me to work and not to see press conferences. (Although I have to answer a lot of anxious questions about plane crashes from my colleagues).

Would anyone be kind enough to summarize the press conference? Pretty please...

Just to make people aware if there was a sudden decompression in the cockpit, the cockpit door would automatically open.

There are two pressure sensors in the cockpit which sense a differential pressure between flight deck and cabin. Should a differential pressure occur the three "latches" which prevent cockpit door from being opened would be automatically de-energised. Differential pressure would force cockpit door open.

If there is a decompression, the normal "flow" of items to be performed is:

- O2 mask on

then AFS Handling:
- ALT turn lower and pull (to anything lower, doesn't matter what exactly, just to initiate the descend)
- HDG (pull and turn away from Airway)
- SPD (select current and if in Mach select kts)
- Speedbrake

Once the speedbrake is out repeag and adjust all AFS Items.

Now I have 3 points about that:

If they had become unconcious before performing these steps, then the Aircraft would habe descended to the first Alt initially set in the Alt window, which normalle is not zero but some odd value just a little below the cruising Alt as it is only an initial set and not the final alt to which the emergency descend would have been performed to as that would habe been step 2.

If the had performed these steps, I am pretty sure one of the steps would at least have been a small and initial turn as soon as the cruising altitude was left, and at sone point, latest when going through the AFS the second time, a turn away from the Alps.

If they had selected a certain speed, we would see a change in GS on the FR24 data correaponding to the Mach/TAS effect.

And if the had pulled the speedbrake, which is an important step, we would have seen deacendrates far beyong 3000 fpm.

Just my thoughts to the rapid decompression maneuved...

I can see this being a very difficult investigation.

If they find the FDR, what state will it be in? And the aircraft is in a million pieces.

Quoting trystero (Reply 162): Hello. Currently in the tropics, were the weather is nice but not the internet connections. Furthermore someone pays me to work and not to see press conferences. (Although I have to answer a lot of anxious questions about plane crashes from my colleagues). Would anyone be kind enough to summarize the press conference? Pretty please...

The post directly before yours is probably the best you'll get on here.

[Edited 2015-03-25 09:54:06]

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 161):

Thank you (and the others) for your contribution, especially in translating!

Quoting jjj (Reply 118): A woman with a very Russian name (and accent to match) was interviewed on Spanish TV saying a relative was travelling on the A/C. Might be a Spanish relative or Russian-born Spanish citizen, though.

We know that the opera singer Oleg Bryjak was one of the victims. I don't know what his nationality is, but he had been a member of the Deutsche Oper am Rhein in Düsseldorf for many years and lived in Düsseldorf, so he may have been a German passport holder. Last names tell you little about 'nationality' these days.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 167): Thank you (and the others) for your contribution, especially in translating!

I was asked to do it helping somebody else after which I rushed here and re-posted it for the good of all.

I also did the Merkel/Hollande/Rajoy but I see much less interest in it.

     

I can see the speculations continue... has anyone discounted foul play, terrorism, etc? Given what we still do not know, I can't see why such possibility or likelihood would not exist.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 161): I did a simultaneous typed translation of the BEA presser as I was listening

Thank you for doing this. Much appreciated.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 161): the work of read ing of t his has began immediately and some difficulty have been met but we have succeded extracting an audio file that can be used but it is too early to draw conclusions on what happened we need to work on this audio file to decipher all the details in the f ile we have the audio files for the whole length of the flight so we need to work on it they will have to do it in conjunction with the other flight recorder and work on the two recorders to refine the comprehension of the flight so they can transcribe the data

I hope that they can transcribe the conversation as soon as possible, and don't delay it by weeks or months as they seem to be saying.
French and Spanish authorities don't release the audio files like it has happened in other places (US or Brasil), but even without the data recorder, it could provide some important clues as to what happened.

Quoting heyjoojoo (Reply 170): has anyone discounted foul play, terrorism, etc? Given what we still do not know, I can't see why such possibility or likelihood would not exist.

Right now, since we know nothing about what happened inside (or to) the aircraft, almost nothing can be discounted. Anything is speculation - which is what this forum is very good at!

Jimbo

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 78): I never heared of a Recorder that was found, but data could not be recovered. Also here it Looks like the system has proven to work. Maybe we really will know more in an hour.

A couple spring to mind. The MD-80 in Lagos a couple years back for example.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 86): Focussing on the pressure differential completely ignores the reality of trying to breathe into a 400kt -50degC wind. It's difficult to imagine the effect that would have on a person's lungs. It's not hard to imagine it being "terminal"

Breathing is not the bit that causes you to pass out, it's the gas exchange in the lungs.

Quoting JmeDubya (Reply 139): If the plane did depressurize and the pilots were able to mask, how long does the pilot O2 supply last in an A320? Ive seen the bottles for pilots in other aircraft and know they aren't overly large, maybe 15 minutes?

Quite a long time. That 15 minutes you state is for passengers; crewmembers have an oxygen supply that lasts far longer.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 149): But stranger things have happened (remember AF447). As far as I remember the pilots didn't call Mayday either over the Southern Atlantic.

That's because the aircraft was out of control. As far as we can tell, this A320 remained in controlled flight.

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 155): That's interesting and fuels for more speculation. If there would have been silence, then they would tell.

Not necessarily - they are going to be rightly cautious about disseminating information.

Could someone please clarify something for me, if they have knowledge of this:

After the flight reached altitude, it began descending, until it tragically crashed.

As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any ATC try and contact the flight????

And please.... do *not* respond by saying something like "I'd assume so". Not interested in assumptions on this question. Simply, did or did not ATC speak to the flight, as it descended.

IF you know something positive, please do respond.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 173): Not necessarily - they are going to be rightly cautious about disseminating information.

Absolutely. Those assigned to speak at press conferences at this stage of an investigation are usually experienced and competent people (with the possible exception of elected officials ) who are very careful with their language. I would take what they say at face value – just the plain meaning of the words – and not try to read any more or any less into it.

I found the following comment from thread #4 interesting, and haven't seen it further discussed, unless I missed it:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"
**********aircatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted Wed Mar 25 2015 03:39:23 your local time (8 hours 36 minutes 26 secs ago) and read 30337 times:

Just to clarify: whatever happened to the plane and crew happened over the sea, about 50mi south of MRS. Obviously a conscious crew with a troubled (yet controlable) airplane would not have flown past that airport, let alone into the mountains. ********"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it true, as the above comment opines, that a functional crew with the ability to turn would have been likely to try to turn toward Marseille, even if beginning a descent, instead of continuing towards the Alps?

[Edited 2015-03-25 10:21:12]

Quoting CO953 (Reply 176): Is it true, as the above comment opines, that a functional crew with the ability to turn would have been likely to try to turn toward Marseille, even if beginning a descent, instead of continuing towards the Alps?

Correct. You do not fly into mountains when you are initiating an emergency descent if at all possible.

Quoting CO953 (Reply 176): I found the following comment from thread #4 interesting, and haven't seen it further discussed, unless I missed it: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- " **********aircatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 624 posts, RR: 0 Reply 143, posted Wed Mar 25 2015 03:39:23 your local time (8 hours 36 minutes 26 secs ago) and read 30337 times: Just to clarify: whatever happened to the plane and crew happened over the sea, about 50mi south of MRS. Obviously a conscious crew with a troubled (yet controlable) airplane would not have flown past that airport, let alone into the mountains. ********" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it true, as the above comment opines, that a functional crew with the ability to turn would have been likely to try to turn toward Marseille, even if beginning a descent, instead of continuing towards the Alps?

i think that makes it pretty clear that either they were incapacitated or they had lost the ability to control the flight path of the airplane.

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 174): Could someone please clarify something for me, if they have knowledge of this: After the flight reached altitude, it began descending, until it tragically crashed. As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any ATC try and contact the flight????

Yes.

At 10:30, Germanwings had an exchange with ATC in which it was acknowledged that cruise altitude was reached. By all accounts it was a routine transmission.

Within the next minute, ATC noted that Germanwings was descending. Change of altitude had not been approved. ATC attempted to contact Germanwings at 10:31 and there was no response from the cockpit.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 177): Correct. You do not fly into mountains when you are initiating an emergency descent if at all possible.

But that does not tell us anything about the state of the crew, just that they did not initiate a turn for whatever reason.

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 174): As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any ATC try and contact the flight????

Of course, they tried to contact the plane.

They also had to move other traffic out of the way.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ers-watched-germanwings-fatal-dive

Staff at the air-traffic control center of Aix-en-Provence failed to contact the pilots over an 8-minute period before the plane disappeared from their radar, according to Rousseau.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...tes#block-5511b9d1e4b0424880ae3b75

“We have obtained copies of the contact between the control tower and the pilots of the plane. These show there was no contact with the plane after it started losing altitude and when the air traffic controllers tried to contact it there was no response.”

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 174): And please.... do *not* respond by saying something like "I'd assume so". Not interested in assumptions

Would you be interested in the fact that this question has been addressed a number of times in previous parts of this thread?

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 174): As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any ATC try and contact the flight????

Yes, they did. The fact they got no response while the radar track was indicating a descent that had neither been requested nor approved was why ATC declared an emergency.

Quoting racko (Reply 137): BEA director unwilling to say whether the pilots were speaking during the descent yet.

Did he say if any alarms were heard? let me guess? They won't say...

Madame Concord, thanks so much for work translating the press conference. Very envious of folks like yourself with multi lingual abilities.

Quoting DIRECTFLT

Could someone please clarify something for me, if they have knowledge of this:

After the flight reached altitude, it began descending, until it tragically crashed.

As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any ATC try and contact the flight????

And please.... do *not* respond by saying something like "I'd assume so". Not interested in assumptions on this question. Simply, did or did not ATC speak to the flight, as it descended.

IF you know something positive, please do respond.


Great Question!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 169): I also did the Merkel/Hollande/Rajoy but I see much less interest in it.

I watched that live with an interpreter on screen, and I didn't need one for Merkel.

Another question - this CVR model, how old is it? Since this plane is from 1990, I presume the CVRs get updated and replaced once in a while, correct? So no more 1990 style?

Shouldn't the FDR ELT be transmitting? It should not be that difficult to locate if the crash area is relatively contained and the FDR has not been completely destroyed.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 184): Did he say if any alarms were heard? let me guess? They won't say...

Correct - they more or less said they were not prepared to publicly discuss the contents of the CVR yet.

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 185): Great Question!

Everyone is getting excited by this and missing recent posts, which addressed DIRECTFLT's inquiry. In a nutshell, between 10:30 (last transmission) and 10:31 (unresponsive cockpit), something happened.

No explosion aboard Germanwings flight, French aviation official says

Quoting golfradio (Reply 187): Shouldn't the FDR ELT be transmitting? It should not be that difficult to locate if the crash area is relatively contained and the FDR has not been completely destroyed.

I'm fairly certain the pingers (not an ELT btw) only activate with contact with water.

Quoting Miami (Reply 190): No explosion aboard Germanwings flight, French aviation official says

Offhand, do you know if this includes explosive decompression?

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 75): I will ask again; why is aviation still in the 1950's when it comes to storing CVR and FDR data seperately? Why is the data not recorded to BOTH recorders so there is redundancy?

I think I read somewhere in all the postings about the 787 battery investigation, that the 787's FDR's record both cockpit and telemetry data, so each recorder is a clone of each other.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 191): Shouldn't the FDR ELT be transmitting? It should not be that difficult to locate if the crash area is relatively contained and the FDR has not been completely destroyed. I'm fairly certain the pingers (not an ELT btw) only activate with contact with water.

Is the FDR stored in the tail cargo bay of the A320?

MadameConcord (thank you for your transcription) or another french speaker, did the BEA say no explosion on board, or did they say more like the plane didn't break up in air? I know translation is not always literal...

Quoting A5XX (Reply 154): What would happen if a windshield would shatter to pieces in flight

Nothing. The windscreens are laminated glass. They can crack, but would not shatter to pieces. If they come off, they do so in one piece.

On a.nut, there is somewhere a good photo from a cracked 330 or 340 windscreen on approach to ZRH.


David

Quoting seahawk (Reply 180): But that does not tell us anything about the state of the crew, just that they did not initiate a turn for whatever reason.

It suggests that they were unable to turn the aircraft.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 161): I did a simultaneous typed translation of the BEA presser as I was listening via

Impressive. On-the-fly translation is no easy feat. I speak two languages from birth and I have a really hard time with translation between the two. Thank you for that.

Quoting morsecoder (Reply 175):

Quoting barney captain (Reply 191):

I think the FDR is fitted with an ULB (Underwater Locator Beacon) only. Activated by water.

Quoting JmeDubya (Reply 195): did the BEA say no explosion on board, or did they say more like the plane didn't break up in air?

At some point, authorities did rule out an inflight breakup due to the concentrated nature of the wreckage on the face of the mountain.